Using stainless all thread in large cutting board?

[stry...@yahoo.com]

I am making my mom a rather large cutting board as she needs it. between 2ftx2ft and 3ftx3ft. (Need to measure her counter.)

It will be made of hard maple. She wants it flat (no feet) so she can use both sides.

I was wondering if I could use 3/8 stainless all thread through it to decrease the likelihood of warping. Or will this just cause more problems?

If I use all thread, should I use a tap and thread the holes the all thread goes through? Should I drill and install the all thread once it is glued? Should I use glue on the all thread?

I will have to make this in "sections" then install the sections together. (My planer is not big enough to plane the entire piece.

Any advice from you experts is appreciated!

[woodchucker]

You would not want to thread the wood.
I don't think all thread will prevent warping, the rod will just move
with the wood.


I would consider capturing the ends in a breadboard .
I would not do the tenon full length, as you want to have the support of
the breadboard, so I would make 3 full size tongues and cut between them
so that you can leave most of the wood in the breadboards. This will
leave the strength with the breadboard ends to keep the cutting board
from warping.
That's my opinion.

If you need a diagram, I can draw one when I get home and upload it.

--
Jeff

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Use stainless stee, althread and a few Bellville washers to allow
the block the expand and shring without loosing tension. Bore
flat-bottomed holes for the nuts/washers - stainless washer against
the wood - pair or 2 of belleviles, then the nut. Torque just enough
to start compressing the bellvilles with the wood dry. If the wood
"grows" it will copress the bellvilles a bit more, and the tension on
the althread won't change appreciably. Do this on both ends of the
allthread. 1/4 inch would be more than adequate.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:09:01 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Definitely even if using the althread, put end stringers on.

[whit3rd]

On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 12:57:23 PM UTC-8, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:51:18 -0800 (PST), stry...@yahoo.com wrote:
>

> >I am making my mom a rather large cutting board as she needs it. between 2ftx2ft and 3ftx3ft. ...

> >I was wondering if I could use 3/8 stainless all thread through it to decrease the likelihood of warping. Or will this just cause more problems?

> Use stainless stee, althread and a few Bellville washers to allow
> the block the expand and shring without loosing tension. Bore
> flat-bottomed holes for the nuts/washers - stainless washer against

> the wood - pair or 2 of bellvilles, then the nut.

That's good advice, but probably a Belleville washer won't be rust-resistant,
I'd use rubber washers instead, from neoprene gasket sheets. You
don't want the high stress a 3/8" rod would provide, 1/4" -20 or #10-32
would be plenty.

[Leon]

If it wants to warp a steel rod is not going to stop that.

Glue using a waterproof glue like Weldwood.

[Electric Comet]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:51:18 -0800 (PST)

stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I am making my mom a rather large cutting board as she needs it.
> between 2ftx2ft and 3ftx3ft. (Need to measure her counter.)
>
> It will be made of hard maple. She wants it flat (no feet) so she can
> use both sides.

it will be heavy from hard maple at that size

woodchucker has a good plan

you could also do end grain style

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/7/2015 12:51 PM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

It would be nice to make something for mom. Mom would also like to brag
to her friends what a nice boy you are and make her such a nice cutting
board.

Then there is practicality. If this is a utilitarian board to be
primarily a work piece, as opposed to a fancy board with decorative
qualities, buy, don't build. Considering the price of wood, the labor
involved, mass produced boards make sense, especially if it is just used
for butchering possums she traps.

http://www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/c/x-lft-Maple-Butcher-Block-Countertop-Williamsburg-Butcher-Block-Co.-MABB8/10006983

Don't know if they have maple, but not a bad price for oak
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60274964/

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 15:02:56 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

They do make stainless steel Bellevilles. Very common in food and
chemical production equipment, as well as agressive steem and caustic
manufacturing environments (and marine use)

[Bob La Londe]

"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:ZqidndXdPMugtvvL...@giganews.com...

If its utilitarian buy a piece of HDPE and be done with it. The stuff is
cheap enough I buy it as stock for cutting plastic parts on the CNC mill.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Some pretty good Bamboo boards out here too at reasonable prices
-(mabee not cheaper than you can make one with hardwood scraps, if you
value your time at more than 2 bits per hour, but close!!!)

[Unknown]

stry...@yahoo.com wrote in
news:da094ca1-ae24-4bcb...@googlegroups.com:

If you use all thread, don't tap each board. Only the last board should
be threaded, but if you're using a nut at either end no boards need to be
threaded. The threads will interfere with getting a tight joint between
the boards.

You can demonstrate this effect with a bolt and two nuts. Thread one nut
on to the bolt then the other. Notice how you have to move one
independently of the other to get them tight? With boards, it's like
holding both nuts while turning the bolt. Even if you start tight, you
won't be able to keep it super tight like you need for a glue joint.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

[woodchucker]

I would never use oak for food. The grain is too open pored for food.
Maple, beech, Cherry, some others, but not oak.

I don't see anything wrong with making it, I just don't see using SS all
thread. Just wood.

--
Jeff

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 22:54:34 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>> Don't know if they have maple, but not a bad price for oak
>> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60274964/
>>
>I would never use oak for food. The grain is too open pored for food.
>Maple, beech, Cherry, some others, but not oak.
>
>I don't see anything wrong with making it, I just don't see using SS all
>thread. Just wood.

White oak manages to hold wine and booze in barrels for years. I'd
not use red oak.

[Jack]

On 12/7/2015 12:51 PM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

No need for all-thread, or anything. Just glue it together. The trick
is in the grain pattern and moisture levels of the wood. If the wood is
quarter sawn, not much chance of warping. If the wood is going to warp,
it will warp, or crack, one or the other, or both. If the wood is kiln
dried, and flat to start with, chances are good it will not warp.

You will read that alternating the end grain with cup up, and cup down
will prevent the board from bowing, or cupping, but if the individual
boards are wide enough, that will just cause a waving motion. Look for
vertical end grain, and you will be good. If you can't find quarter
sawn, or rift sawn boards, then alternate the end grain and cut the
boards narrow, like under 2 inches and cross your fingers.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

[stry...@yahoo.com]

I already have the hard maple boards. They have been sitting on a pallet in my garage for a year. The wood is kiln dried. Since it has been in my unheated but insulated garage, should I bring it in my house before building it? (To acclimate?)

Also, for some reason I have read people don't like it, but on the other smaller cutting boards I have built, I have had good luck with the poly glue that you use moisture to cure. It does foam out and make a mess, but I only have to glue one side and wet the other. It seems to work good for me anyway.

[stry...@yahoo.com]

One other thing, I will have to somehow plane the final product without my planer as it will be too wide. Has anyone ever successfully planed something completely flat where it will not rock on a countertop with a few boards and a router?

On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 11:51:21 AM UTC-6, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

[Leon]

On 12/8/2015 8:42 AM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I already have the hard maple boards. They have been sitting on a pallet in my garage for a year. The wood is kiln dried. Since it has been in my unheated but insulated garage, should I bring it in my house before building it? (To acclimate?)
>

It depends on how you will make and or use the cutting board. End grain
up, there is going to be movement to some degree every time you clean
it. Edge grain not so much.
Just keep in mind that a cutting board that is going to be used is going
to develop its own character and will not be perfect as cleaning with
water does introduce some water into the wood. Just be sure to let it
dry after cleaning and wipe off excess water.

Nothing looks better than a cutting board that gets used and has the
battle scars to prove that it is good enough to use.

Kinda like a New table saw top, take measures to protect it but don't
spend more time protecting it than using it.

> Also, for some reason I have read people don't like it, but on the other smaller cutting boards I have built, I have had good luck with the poly glue that you use moisture to cure. It does foam out and make a mess, but I only have to glue one side and wet the other. It seems to work good for me anyway.
>

The poly glues are messy, I will give you that. BUT a water proof wood
glue is just as good and only has to be applied to one side also, and
much less expensive.

[Leon]

On 12/8/2015 8:44 AM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> One other thing, I will have to somehow plane the final product without my planer as it will be too wide. Has anyone ever successfully planed something completely flat where it will not rock on a countertop with a few boards and a router?
>
>

Just be careful when gluing up the sections that will fit in the planer,
use dowels, biscuits, or Domino's for registration of the mating
surfaces to create the final size.

Then use a ROS or belt sander to finish off.

I Typically a kitchen towel under the cutting board will help prevent
rocking if it is warped.

I also use the clear rubber/silicone cabinet door bumpers in the bottom
of the cutting boards. I use the 1/2" diameter by 1/8" thick style. I
drill a 1/2" diameter flat bottom hole on the 4 corners just deep enough
to prevent the bumpers from slipping and relocating.

Then I test on the counter top and gently hand sand the bumper that
stands tall.

[Scott Lurndal]

Although, if I recall correctly, the OP mentioned that both sides of
the board were required to be usable.

[Leon]

Yeah, I forgot about that. Just use a Kitchen towel between it and the
counter top if there is an issue.

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 06:44:51 -0800 (PST)
stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> One other thing, I will have to somehow plane the final product
> without my planer as it will be too wide. Has anyone ever

glue it up so you have two halves that will fit in your planer
once you have them equal thickness do the final glue up

just keep it flat and do not clamp too tight

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 06:42:26 -0800 (PST)
stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I already have the hard maple boards. They have been sitting on a
> pallet in my garage for a year. The wood is kiln dried. Since it has
> been in my unheated but insulated garage, should I bring it in my
> house before building it? (To acclimate?)

does not matter with kiln dried
it remains pretty darn stable

> Also, for some reason I have read people don't like it, but on the
> other smaller cutting boards I have built, I have had good luck with
> the poly glue that you use moisture to cure. It does foam out and
> make a mess, but I only have to glue one side and wet the other. It
> seems to work good for me anyway.

if it works why not
and if you already have some all the better

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:07:42 -0500
Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> White oak manages to hold wine and booze in barrels for years. I'd
> not use red oak.

white oak imparts certain flavors into the wine as well

[Electric Comet]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:58:39 -0500
Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> labor involved, mass produced boards make sense, especially if it is
> just used for butchering possums she traps.

dunno how anyone could use a store bought contraption to butcher
possums on

although i would like to see the ikea photos of the possum with one
of their snazzy boards

probably add that to the list of things that we will never see

[dadiOH]

Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 06:42:26 -0800 (PST)
> stry...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I already have the hard maple boards. They have been sitting on a
>> pallet in my garage for a year. The wood is kiln dried. Since it has
>> been in my unheated but insulated garage, should I bring it in my
>> house before building it? (To acclimate?)
>
> does not matter with kiln dried
> it remains pretty darn stable

Kiln dried doesn't stay at whatever relative humidity to which it was deied,
it assumes the RH of wereever it is.

[dadiOH]

stry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I already have the hard maple boards. They have been sitting on a
> pallet in my garage for a year. The wood is kiln dried. Since it has
> been in my unheated but insulated garage, should I bring it in my
> house before building it? (To acclimate?)

Yes. A couple of weeks or more before you use it.

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:53:10 -0500
"dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:

> Kiln dried doesn't stay at whatever relative humidity to which it was
> deied, it assumes the RH of wereever it is.

it is not going to matter with a small project like this

[woodchucker]

That's different. It's liquid, not food that needs to be cleaned out.
The casks are for turning the booze into quality booze.

Cutting boards on the other hand need to be cleaned of food, otherwise
it will get rancid.

--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

Sure, it's not that hard. I work across the grain, knocking the high
spots down.

Test, repeat. Keep marking , work slowly. You only need to keep taking
the high spots down.

Once it's flat, a light pass with a smoother to remove all the scars.
Rinse and repeat on the other side.
Also, to prevent edge tearout, put a chamfer on the edges before
starting. It prevents you from blowing out an edge.

--
Jeff

[Markem]

Whisky too.

[Jack]

On 12/8/2015 9:42 AM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Also, for some reason I have read people don't like it, but on the other smaller cutting boards
> I have built, I have had good luck with the poly glue that you use moisture to cure. It does
> foam out and make a mess, but I only have to glue one side and wet the other. It seems to work
> good for me anyway.

I have cutting boards I made 40 years ago and use every single day that
were glued up with Elmer's Cabinetmakers glue (yellow glue) I still use
that stuff but now also use Titebond III, which is waterproof or water
resistant. The Elmer's is not water proof at all but on a cutting
board, with tight joints, it doesn't seem to matter much. I would use
Titebond III today, it's a nice glue, cheap, easy to use.

If I were gluing up something to store outside in the weather, I guess
I'd go out and buy Titebond III, otherwise, use whatever you have, it
will likely work, that's what I did 40 years ago and no problems
whatsoever. If it comes apart, find a woodworker to repair it (you?).

[Jack]

On 12/8/2015 9:44 AM, stry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> One other thing, I will have to somehow plane the final product without my planer as it will be
> too wide. Has anyone ever successfully planed something completely
flat where it will not rock on
> a countertop with a few boards and a router?

If you plane both halves with a planer, you should have no trouble
gluing them up with nothing more than a bit of sanding as both sides
should be equal thickness. If you need to plane it again with a router,
something is really, really wrong. A light sanding or just a card
scraper is all you should need.

[nailsh...@aol.com]

Back on the topic of glue and stainless rods, I have a cabinet maker buddy that makes and sells cutting boards with his scraps. He swears he makes as much on his boards as he does the cabinets...

He uses "Eco Glue" and has for about 10 years. He warrants his cutting boards again separation at the joints for life! He has been using it in his business for about 20 years and he told me over time he has just gotten better with a couple of reformulations.

He told me that since he switched to that, he has NEVER had a joint fail that he glued with Eco Glue, not a cutting board, counter top or cabinet.

Robert

[Electric Comet]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 10:31:21 -0500
Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I have cutting boards I made 40 years ago and use every single day
> that were glued up with Elmer's Cabinetmakers glue (yellow glue) I
> still use that stuff but now also use Titebond III, which is

i doubt the stuff frmo 40 years ago is formlated the same today

[Leon]

Rovert, could that be Eco-Bond Adhesives?

http://ecobondadhesives.com/

[Leon]

Or maybe this.

http://www.thegreenproductscompany.com/adhesive/egwood.htm

[Martin Eastburn]

I use it indoors. Ever hear of 80% RH after a flood or Rainstorm ?
We can open up the door and have to wait for the dehydrator works.

My sister has water sprinklers that blew out with an over pressure
on the water line. The furniture all but melted. doors off and
falling down. Oh - they were at the mountain cabin for a week.
Came back with 2" of water in the house and a flood pouring out ever
where. It was a massive insurance claim the insurance man did - they
installed a pressure regulator on the house as well.

Martin

[Mike Marlow]

You're probably right, since you seem to know so much without even having
ever done anything. I'd guess that the products from 40 years ago were far
superior since manufacturers always eveolve their products to be worse as
time goes on.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[nailsh...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:30:25 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
.

> Or maybe this.
>
> http://www.thegreenproductscompany.com/adhesive/egwood.htm

It's this one. Bill (the cabinet guy) is a cranky, hard headed man that has to see it, test it, use it, and develop a history with something before he will recommend it. He completely swears by it, and while drinking a beer with him, he gave me the run down on his testing methods.

To shock test, he glued two pieces of wood together, and bashed the joint with a carpenter's hammer until the wood splintered and came apart. The glued joint survived.

For stress, he used a "come along" or something similar to rip the glued wood apart.

He has soaked his glued test pieces in wood, and the glue joints never gave up.

I confess I personally have never used it as I don't know of anyone that sells it locally, but if I was building a lot, I would sure be looking into it. Look at the strength tests and comparisons on the page you posted; that stuff is mighty impressive.

Robert

[Leon]

On 12/9/2015 11:41 PM, nailsh...@aol.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:30:25 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote: .
>> Or maybe this.
>>
>> http://www.thegreenproductscompany.com/adhesive/egwood.htm
>
> It's this one. Bill (the cabinet guy) is a cranky, hard headed man
> that has to see it, test it, use it, and develop a history with
> something before he will recommend it. He completely swears by it,
> and while drinking a beer with him, he gave me the run down on his
> testing methods.
>
> To shock test, he glued two pieces of wood together, and bashed the
> joint with a carpenter's hammer until the wood splintered and came
> apart. The glued joint survived.
>
> For stress, he used a "come along" or something similar to rip the
> glued wood apart.
>
> He has soaked his glued test pieces in wood, and the glue joints
> never gave up.

What kind of wood did he soak his glue tests in? '~)

>
> I confess I personally have never used it as I don't know of anyone
> that sells it locally, but if I was building a lot, I would sure be
> looking into it. Look at the strength tests and comparisons on the
> page you posted; that stuff is mighty impressive.
>
> Robert
>

Yes I had noticed the strength tests, Roo Wood seems to be the only one
that comes close. But having said that I was surprised to see that
several of the glues have as much strength as wood, if not more, when
bonding glass and steel.

I probably use as much glue as most anyone on this forum but I learned
the hard way with TB that there is a shelf life on this stuff and
especially with TBIII you have to keep it mixed. I used to buy it and
the Extend a gallon at a time and just over half way the stuff became
useless. I wonder at what price it can be purchased and what the shelf
life is.

[Leon]

I did inquire about buying from their site, I'll see where that goes.

[Jack]

On 12/10/2015 12:41 AM, nailsh...@aol.com wrote:
> To shock test, he glued two pieces of wood together, and bashed the joint with a carpenter's
> hammer until the wood splintered and came apart. The glued joint survived.

I've done this test with Elmers wood glue, and the glue is stronger than
the wood, just like people say.

When I built my shop, my very first project was a workbench. I wanted a
butcher block top, so I got 2x4's, ripped them in half, and edge glued
them into a 7' x 30" top. I used all-threads and 1/4" splines to make
sure it wouldn't split in half. Talk about over kill. I quickly
learned via reading and testing myself that glue really is stronger than
wood, and as long as you get a decent glue joint, you will not have a
problem edge gluing wood w/o anything other than glue. The workbench
and top are still in my shop after around 40 plus years of extreme
abuse. http://jbstein.com/Flick/BenchBack.jpg

As far as glue failing, I've never had a problem with glue failing, it
just doesn't seem to happen with todays glue. On the other hand, I've
only been building stuff for 60 years, so nothing I've made has been
around long enough to be certain.

An example of how amazing standard Elmers yellow glue is, and I guess
about any wood glue made, is this plumbers case I threw together. This
case has at least 50 pounds of fitting and tools in it, and all it is is
a box with 1/4" hardboard glued to the case. I really didn't expect to
to work, but I made it about 15 years ago, and made a few others as
well, and it continues to amaze me. Glue is far stronger than I
imagined. http://jbstein.com/Flick/PlumbingCase.JPG

While I'm at it, here is the bread board I made around 40 years ago
using Elmers yellow glue, that I still use every day.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/BreadBoard1.jpg

[Leon]

That there is a cool box.....hummmmm

[Kevin Miller]

It would be interesting to try a bottle. Had to wonder though about
this in the "How to use" section:
Shake well before using.

I usually use Elmer's carpenter's glue or Tightbond polyurethane
(similar to Gorilla Glue). I don't think shaking either of them would
do more than providing about 30 seconds of mild exercise to my forearm.
How thin is this stuff?

...Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

[Jack]

Thanks. I got tired of emptying out a large coffee can of copper
fittings looking for something I was always one short of needing. This
makes that a breeze, and keeps everything in one place. Still, if I need
4 els, I usually have 3, but I know right away:-)

Here's another I made for pipe fittings and Pipe threader/dies. I think
this is the first one I made and it is really heavy. Still amazes me the
glue holds that well.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeBox1.JPG
http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeBox2.JPG
http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeBox3.JPG