removing old damaged insert nuts

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

Any useful tips are welcomed.

One arm came loose on a teak armchair - fastened by
2 quick-connect bolts into 2 insert nuts.
< 1/4 - 20 or a metric equivalent >

The insert nuts had deteriorated over the years to the point
that they were stripped - tiny bits of them had broken off
down in the hole. < probably from wiggling for some time >
In trying to remove them with an allen wrench -
it just turned-through and rounded-off the insert nut hex.

I'm considering using the dremel with some sort of bit <?>
to grind away at them and hopefully dig them out in pieces.

Other ideas ?

part 2 : if I do manage to get them out - the hole will
certainly be a very loose fit for the new insert nuts -
- cement the new ones in with epoxy ? or what ?
John T.

[Brian Welch]

If aesthetics work, overdrill the void left by the loose insert, glue/epoxy a piece of wood dowel in its place. After it's cured, drill for a new insert...

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:35:22 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>Any useful tips are welcomed.
>
>One arm came loose on a teak armchair - fastened by
> 2 quick-connect bolts into 2 insert nuts.
> < 1/4 - 20 or a metric equivalent >
>
>The insert nuts had deteriorated over the years to the point
>that they were stripped - tiny bits of them had broken off
>down in the hole. < probably from wiggling for some time >
> In trying to remove them with an allen wrench -
> it just turned-through and rounded-off the insert nut hex.
>
>I'm considering using the dremel with some sort of bit <?>
>to grind away at them and hopefully dig them out in pieces.
>
> Other ideas ?

An easy-out into the threads might work. Maybe a reamer? They're
pretty hard so you might bust one and make the problem worse.

Drilling it out with a bit the same size as the core might work. The
threads won't have anything holding them and may come out. If they
don't, maybe some epoxy to keep them in and rethreading?

>part 2 : if I do manage to get them out - the hole will
>certainly be a very loose fit for the new insert nuts -
>- cement the new ones in with epoxy ? or what ?

You can but you may have the same problem down the road, with no road
back. You might epoxy the inside of the hole, let cure, then thread
into that. Much depends on how much stress the fasteners need to
take.

[Clare Snyder]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:35:22 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

What kind of insert nut are we talking John?? Plastic, brass or
steel??. I'd likely drill out the old nut, wax the bolt, slather it
with a filled epoxy and stuff it into the hole. The wax will act as a
mold release allowing the bolt to be removed later. Devon Steel or JB
Weld or whatever other filled epoxy that rocks your boat.
Either that or mix your own epoxy (something prefeerably slower than
5 minute) with the filler of your choice - Flocking, iron dust,
microballoons, talcum powder, aluminum powder - or whatever.. Don'r
make the walls of the hole too smooth.

[Clare Snyder]

Another that works if asthetics allow is to cross drill and insert a
"cross-dowel barrel nut" - a bar deilled through and tapped -that
worls like a "T" nut

[DerbyDad03]

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

I've made nuts out of steel rod, tapped to match the bolt, and
epoxied them in place.

- Rough up the outside of the "nut" and the inside of the hole.
- Put Vaseline on the bolt, especially, the threads and screw it
into the nut.
- Use the bolt to line up the nut in the hole and fill the hole with
thickened epoxy.

If there is room, use the arm as a guide to line everything up. Coat
anything that you don't want to stick with Vaseline or put some wax
paper between the pieces.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 16:11:30 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

The insert nuts are metal - not brass - it actually looks
like what we used to call "white metal" - grey colour ..
Asthetics won't allow a cross-barrel modification ;
even drilling it is difficult - the arm is all smooth & curvy.
One end would allow a larger hole ; the other end doesn't have
much wood ... I'll try to post a photo on imgur ..
John T.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 10:55:41 -0700 (PDT), Brian Welch
<bnw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks - it might work on one end that has more wood
to work with - the slim end .. doubtful ..
John T.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:35:22 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Here's a couple photos - thanks all for the ideas.

https://imgur.com/a/YVEJUvS

John T.

[J. Clarke]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:35:22 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

If it's buggered up anyway try an EZ-out or the like.

[Markem618]

Coat the thread of 1/4 x 20 with vasoline, put in the hole drilled
out, fill with epoxy.

[Brian Welch]

How important is it that it be able to be knocked down? Could you either epoxy in the original fastener in the buggered insert, or replace with a dowel or similar?
Toilet ring wax is also a good filler/bond breaker in lieu of the vaseline (not quite as messy). Teflon tape on the threads of the fastener have worked as well, in conjunction with wax...

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 17:02:17 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:35:22 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>
>>Any useful tips are welcomed.
>>
>>One arm came loose on a teak armchair - fastened by
>> 2 quick-connect bolts into 2 insert nuts.
>> < 1/4 - 20 or a metric equivalent >
>>
>>

>>part 2 : if I do manage to get them out - the hole will
>>certainly be a very loose fit for the new insert nuts -
>>- cement the new ones in with epoxy ? or what ?
>> John T.
>
>
>Here's a couple photos - thanks all for the ideas.
>https://imgur.com/a/YVEJUvS
> John T.

The old insert nuts are now removed !
- albeit in tiny chunks -
I think they were zamak or an early version ?
It wasn't too bad - ~ half-hour at the kichen table -
- I used a little Exacto-saw to "quarter" them -
and then chipped-out the bits.
I'll see how sloppy/loose the new insert nuts are -
then go-from-there ...
John T.

[Leon]

> Glue a bolt inside the damaged nut. Reverse the bolt and remove the nut.

[Clare Snyder]

Just a good coating of Johnson's paste wax works and WON'T compromize
the epoxy.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>>
>>>part 2 : if I do manage to get them out - the hole will
>>>certainly be a very loose fit for the new insert nuts -
>>>- cement the new ones in with epoxy ? or what ?
>>> John T.
>>
>>
>>Here's a couple photos - thanks all for the ideas.
>>https://imgur.com/a/YVEJUvS
>> John T.
>
>
> The old insert nuts are now removed !
> - albeit in tiny chunks -
>I think they were zamak or an early version ?
>It wasn't too bad - ~ half-hour at the kichen table -
> - I used a little Exacto-saw to "quarter" them -
>and then chipped-out the bits.
> I'll see how sloppy/loose the new insert nuts are -
> then go-from-there ...
> John T.
>

Well - the 5 minute job of tightening 2 screws to fix the
arm of the dining chair is done ! .. a week later.
The original fasteners were indeed metric and even
Lee Valley doesn't carry them - but the conversion to
1/4-20 allowed for a better solid fit of the insert nuts -
I actually drilled them out a wee tiny bit to 3/8.

ps: I bought 2 lengths of insert nuts and 2 lengths of bolts -
- <extras> at Lee Valley - 8 pieces ~ $ 5. total -
- the great customer service and helpful advice were free !

Lowes carries a 4 pack of insert nuts - $ 8. !
... bolts ~ 4 for $ 9. ! .. with very limited choices.

Lee Valley allows you to buy what you need for ~ 40 cents each.

Happy 4th Of July to our southern neighbours -
in the words of a very wise Canuck -

" We're all in this together - keep your stick on the ice. "

John T.

[Clare Snyder]

Did you pick them up in Waterloo??? If so you were only a few blocks
from me.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 19:28:39 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>
>>>>

If you need bunches of them (I keep inserts and cross-dowels around)
Grainger, Fastenal, or one of those is a good choice. They're cheaper
but I don't know if Fastenal keeps them in inventory at their walk-in
locations.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 22:17:25 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

Yep. I worked there part-time for a few years
when they first opened - it was difficult to not-spend
the paycheck there every week ..
John T.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>
>If you need bunches of them (I keep inserts and cross-dowels around)
>Grainger, Fastenal, or one of those is a good choice. They're cheaper
>but I don't know if Fastenal keeps them in inventory at their walk-in
>locations.
>
>

I just checked Fastenal < Canada > web site - and they require -
1. email
2. name
3. address
4. phone number

.. before they can show me the price of an insert nut.

John T.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:25:30 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>
>>>
>>If you need bunches of them (I keep inserts and cross-dowels around)
>>Grainger, Fastenal, or one of those is a good choice. They're cheaper
>>but I don't know if Fastenal keeps them in inventory at their walk-in
>>locations.
>>
>>
>
>
>I just checked Fastenal < Canada > web site - and they require -
> 1. email
> 2. name
> 3. address
> 4. phone number

There is a place to register for an account but it's not required (at
least the US site).

>.. before they can show me the price of an insert nut.

<https://www.fastenal.com/product/Threaded%20Inserts/600189?fsi=1&categoryId=600189&level=3&query=threaded+insert>

Others that I've dealt with:
<https://www.boltdepot.com/Threaded_inserts_and_Rivet_nuts.aspx?nv=l>
<https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts/>
<https://www.grainger.com/category/fasteners/thread-insert?redirect=threaded+insert&searchRedirect=threaded+insert&searchBar=true&suggestConfigId=6>
<https://www.mcfeelys.com/screw-fastener-web-store/nuts/threaded-inserts.html>

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:25:30 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>
>>>

They'll need all that before they ship it to you so what's the issue?

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

No shipping - walk-in customer -
... just wanting to see the price - without having
them sell my personal info to every junk mailer and
phone-bot in the world.
John T.

[Leon]

Your personal info is already out there.

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Get a disposable email address:
https://jetable.org/en/index
You can make it valid for as little as 1 hour.

Or go to mail.com for a new permannent email address that you only use
for "junk" purposes and never check - and make it easy to remember:
perhaps something like johns...@mail.com ?

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

.. not to Fastenal it isn't - nor will it ever be -
because of their stupid unnecessary web site restrictions.
John T.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

That's what I have done for many years -
- for stuff that I want/need and can't avoid it -
but being forced to provide all that info just to see
the price of something ? no thanks.
John T.

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This is a good ID ;-)

Alfred E. Neumann
1234 West 13th Street
NY, NY

[k...@notreal.com]

1313 Mockingbird Lane
Mockingbird Heights, CA

[ads]

Do you realize how many people there are who'd have no idea what we're
talking about?

[k...@notreal.com]

Kids!

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

Be sure to let me know how that works out -
- like anyone in the USA would ever shop
at Fastenal dot ca ..
John T.

[Clare Snyder]

Let me know next time you are in and we can meet for a "timmies" or
something.

[Clare Snyder]

Spae Nauer is good too here in Kitchener/Waterloo area.

[k...@notreal.com]

/humor off

>Be sure to let me know how that works out -
>- like anyone in the USA would ever shop
>at Fastenal dot ca ..

/humor on
> John T.