Whats Up With All The Particle Board Furniture Out There?
John W.
part. In the last 6 months I bought my first house. Needless to say we
don't have much furniture. My thoughts were to build some it/buy some
it.
Last weekend me and the wife went out looking at furniture. We are
quite partial to more contemporary furniture/Euro stuff. Just about
every piece of furniture we saw was made of particle board. Veneered
with real cherry or whatever but particle board just the same. Looks
very nice. We even went to more expensive stores and lots of still had
particle board - particularly entertainment units.
We saw a cherry veneered entertainment unit from Denmark. Called my
Dad because he is Mr. Woodworker to look at it. It was on clearance
because it was discontinued (1/2 off - I knew it wasn't solid
cherry). Anyway my Dad came and looked at it and said it was garbage.
All particle board with veneer. He said its no better than the stuff
you buy at K-mart. Just more expensive.
He said that drawers should be dove tailed and be at least plywood.
The dowels they are not using on lots of drawers will not hold up to
daily use. He kept stressing that we should get real wood. He said
that even lots of the fancy brands like Thomasville, Pennsylvania
House and Henredon are using it. They use it on big panels and than
veneer it just like the Europeans.
I went and looked at some real wood furniture and my hair stood up at
the prices. 5K for a small dresser is insane. I don't have 20K to drop
on a room.
The people in the stores said that the particle board that is used in
better furniture is high density particle board and its not the same
as the stuff that is used in K-mart furniture. Not sure I beleive them
as they are salesman ;).
Is the particle board as bed as he says? It seems like a huge
percentage of furniture (even supposedly better quality) is being made
with it.
I would like to hear some opinions. Thanks.
John
Mark Lammert
"solid wood" furniture have pieces with particle board in them... Maybe
particle board covered with "real" wood veneer is "solid" wood... I don't
think so...
We recently purchased a complete bed room set (except for bed) for
$600.00... It is actual complete real solid wood... It was very badly dinged
and dented but a little elbow grease and time and it looks 99% good as
new...
I agree... If I am going to spend $1500 on an entertainment center with
particle board why not go to K-Mart and spend $150 on the same thing... I am
sure the $1500 is built better and will last longer... But, particle board
is particle board... There is definitely the time and place to use it... But
not in "solid" wood furniture...
My wife and I discuss this all the time when we go furniture shopping...
Mark
"John W." <tinca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c3cf2c8...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
toolsforworkingwood
By and large you get what you pay for. And if you think about it
it makes sense: 150 at Kmart, 1500 at a decent store with modern design
real veneeer but particaly board 5K for real wood which has to be
milled, joined and finished. Lots of labor and lots of wood.
I certainly started in funiture making because I couldn't afford to buy
the stuff I liked.
Wood is expensive. I figure my settles are worth 4-8K each (I made two)
That's a lot more then all the equipment used to make it and a lot of
time - 10 years ago - but I have the settles for life. It's a solid
reason to learn to make good stuff - also to get the right tools because
as long as you acutally use the tools it's really cost effective.
Bob
--
The Museum of Woodworking Tools
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
http://www.antiquetools.com
Rob Stokes
crappy furniture, plain and simple. This is the reason half of us got into
woodworking in the first place!! The way I see it, you have two things you
can do. Gear up in skills and tools to start producing your own "stuff".
This will take time, but you'll get there. In the mean time, attend estate
sales, and garage sales, and out of the way antique shops, and buy some good
quality used furniture to see you through. If the quality is there, you can
always sell it for what you paid for it later, as you start to replace it
with product of your own hands.
Rob
--
visit my web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"John W." <tinca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c3cf2c8...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Swingman
insurance claims.
It seems that the laws in many parts of the country are written in such a
way that if you ask a salesman if the piece is "real wood", or "solid wood",
and he nods his head in the affirmative, even though it is "particle board",
you have not been mislead. There are many furniture stores locally that have
"no particle board" sections, but it is increasingly hard to find a
reasonable priced piece of store bought furniture that does not contain some
PB.
PB is just fine and dandy until it gets wet. Once it gets wet, it literally
explodes and there is very little chance of repair. The time it takes this
to happen varies with the PB, but it WILL happen no matter the "quality" of
the PB, or how short a time it was submerged/wet. Veneers over PB are
particularly nasty after being wet because they raise and can't be sanded
down without disappearing.
We flooded last June and lost our home and most of our furniture. We had
flood insurance. After all was said and done, anything that contained PB was
considered "un-repairable" and an immediate and "total loss" for insurance
purposes. The wood furniture that contained no PB survived and, once dried,
just needed refinishing for the most part.
Flood insurance is basically a Federal program, administered by the
insurance companies. What you end up with is Actual Cash Value that equates
to "replacement cost" LESS "depreciation". The depreciation schedules
wielded by these bastards for furniture are killers ... it is damn near
impossible to buy a like piece with the "depreciated" money you receive ...
DAMHIK.
In short, you can conceivably recover your investment on the insurance
repair cost for wood furniture, but you lo$e big time on anything containing
PB.
In reality, you will likely not have much choice in buying furniture, at
reasonable prices, that does not contain some PB. But when deciding how much
to pay for same, keep in mind the insurance replacement ramifications above.
After what we just went through, in the future I will buy wooden furniture I
can afford, build myself what I can't buy at a reasonable price, and
consider ONLY the less pricey furniture containing PB.
Of course, if you live on a mountain with no chance of flood, have a mild
climate with no chance of busted water pipes, and can be sure that your
furniture containing PB will never suffer any water damage, you will likely
not notice the difference ... but buy insurance anyway.
"John W." wrote in message
William S. Kossack
above, I think, 20 degrees.
Swingman wrote:
--
William Kossack
wsko...@attbi.com
Drew1963d
made with a laminate over particleboard, and higher-end stuff, which uses a a
veneer over plywood. If you dent a laminate, there is not much you can do to
repair it, and it tends to chip easily. A real wood veneer can be sanded and
repaired much more effectively.
There is nothing inherently wrong with using plywood in furniture construction.
For larger "boxes", such as entertainment centers and bookcases, plywood is
much stronger and more stable than an equivalent width of "real" wood. Even the
most stickly woodworkers use plywood for drawer bottoms and cabinet backs. The
trick is to find the right balance of quality materials, workmanship, and
design, in a piece that you can afford to buy or build.
Swingman
It was flown in fresh daily ... from Amarillo.
"William S. Kossack" wrote in message
Leggester
know your predicament. I'm currently building dressers for my son and
daughter due to what I've found in the stores.
If you don't have the time or machinery to build your own, go to an estate
auction! I've found full bedroom sets, all wood ( real and some ply ) and
seen them go for about $1500.00 instead of the $10K for new furniture.
Just like a store, you can go up, open close wobble them to your hearts
content to see if they are good or not. Sometimes, a little re-blocking and
the piece is like new.
Good luck, have fun with your new home.
Matt
Ed
or at least used furniture that was made with real wood. I do realize
that you were looking for "contemporary furniture/Euro stuff" but you
can still get that used. Invest some time in cleaning and or repairing (
you may want to call it "restoring"). If you want to feel better about
buying used stuff, just call it "recycled".
It's interesting that "used" furniture might be worth 5 to 10 cents on
the dollar. Then wait a few years until it can be called an antique then
watch out. If you get stuff that is 50 years old then you are halfway
to owning antiques.
I figure when I kick the bucket all of the "real wood" furnature
purchased and or made since the 60's will sell for $25 at the estate
sale.
> "John W." <tinca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c3cf2c8...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> > I am a novice woodworker so you have to excuse any ignorance on my
> > part. In the last 6 months I bought my first house. Needless to say we
> > don't have much furniture. My thoughts were to build some it/buy some
> > it.
> >
> > Last weekend me and the wife went out looking at furniture. We are
> > quite partial to more contemporary furniture/Euro stuff. Just about
> > every piece of furniture we saw was made of particle board. Veneered
> > with real cherry or whatever but particle board just the same. Looks
> > very nice. We even went to more expensive stores and lots of still had
> > particle board - particularly entertainment units.
Big Snip
Victor Radin
>
<<Woeful tale of particle board snipped>>
>
> Called my Dad because he is Mr. Woodworker to look at it. It was on clearance
> because it was discontinued (1/2 off - I knew it wasn't solid
> cherry). Anyway my Dad came and looked at it and said it was garbage.
> All particle board with veneer. He said its no better than the stuff
> you buy at K-mart. Just more expensive.
>
>
> John
Listen to your father, he's mostly right. Here's a bit of wisdom my
father gave me about the same subject- Particle board is to wood like
meatloaf is to steak. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with meatloaf, in
the proper time and place it's wonderful. **BUT** when you're expecting
(and paying for) steak and get served meatloaf, it's time to go to a new
diner.
If you're looking for decent wood furnishings, look at some second hand
shops and thrift stores, especially some of the church-sponsored thrift
shops (lots of little old ladies donating some very nice stuff out
there).
Like I said- there's a time and place for everything, even particle
board. I've got a reasonably decent Sauder entertainment center- it was
sturdy, inexpensive, looks more or less presentable, and if the puppy
uses it for a hydrant who cares. When the puppy is gone and I can afford
the time and cost of materials, I'll make a custom unit from "real"
wood.
Just my 2 bits worth.
Jeff
spend lots of money.
Fly-by-Night CC
tinca...@yahoo.com (John W.) wrote:
> Is the particle board as bed as he says? It seems like a huge
> percentage of furniture (even supposedly better quality) is being made
> with it.
> In article <3C3B06...@toolsforworkingwood.com>,
> sup...@toolsforworkingwood.com wrote:
>
> > Real furniture is expensive. THere is no doubt about it.
> > By and large you get what you pay for. And if you think about it
> > it makes sense: 150 at Kmart, 1500 at a decent store with modern design
> > real veneeer but particaly board 5K for real wood which has to be
> > milled, joined and finished. Lots of labor and lots of wood.
I think the underlying message Bob and a couple of others are aluding to
is the fact that you need to think about how you want your furniture to
function for you now and in the future:
If you are the type to change styles every couple years; are new at
furnishing and haven't developed solid tastes yet; move frequently and
the company doesn't pay moving expenses or are A-OK with furniture that
borders on disposable; then the particle board & medium density
fiberboard pieces will serve you well. For the most part they're
attractive, quite functional and affordable - Just don't expect for them
to last and last and last.
If you don't fit the criteria above; you are familiar with the concept
of re-upholstering when you desire a color/design change; value fine
craftsmanship with the idea that the piece may very well be with you for
the rest of your life; then go for the upper end, high dollar furniture.
It will be money well spent when you consider the repeated replacements
over your lifetime.
Antique-ing is one of my favorite pastimes and you can get very nice
furniture that way, though it seldom is without "character" (i.e. dings,
scratches and other signs of use). Used furniture (non-antique) is a
steal and you can make a plan to buy (or build) one or two nice pieces
every year or two to gather the niceties. {Buy a brand new cheap couch
for $500 and try to sell it in a couple years you may get $150. Instead
buy a used couch for $250 that originally sold for $1000. Now you've got
$250 left over to put toward a top-quality piece.)
BTW, your woodworking dad... how about approaching him to teach you how
to build a table or something - a joint venture sort of thing? Then
continue on from there.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
L. M. Rappaport
used.
When my folks passed away last year they had some really nice stuff,
but some of it just didn't seem to be worth the move from Florida to
New Hampshire - not because it wasn't good, but because it wasn't our
taste. Besides we had furniture of our own.
I had several appraisers in and the offers were beyond ridiculous.
Most offered little or nothing, one jerk offered to clean out the
entire place (around 8 rooms) for a whopping $100.
I realized that Florida is where many old folks go to retire and often
pass away there. It's really a buyers market. I ended up bringing
much of it up north and selling it at auction. We netted
substantially more than the cost of moving it. IAC, it's such a
buyers market, that I think that if I were really looking to buy a lot
of furniture, I'd fly down there and go to some of the wealthier towns
like Palm Beach, Sarasota, etc. and rent a truck. I'd buy the stuff
for pennies on the dollar and truck it back.
FWIW, I agree with the others: don't waste your money on particle
board. If it gets wet, it doesn't even make decent firewood.
Larry
--
ra...@lmr.com
tinca...@yahoo.com (John W.) wrote (with possible editing):
Andy Dingley
>All particle board with veneer. He said its no better than the stuff
>you buy at K-mart. Just more expensive.
Not true - there's good and bad in all things, and that includes
chipboard. Some of it is unsatisfying, but it does do the job, and it
does last acceptably well.
Furniture costs money. Ask your parents how many "weeks income" they
spent on their first furniture, not how many dollars it was. In
comparison, it's not that much different today from the '50s.
There's also the effect that mid-range furniture just isn't made from
solid wood these days, so you're forced to look at the high end.
High-end costs no more than it used to (in real dollars), but you're
not comparing like with like.
The last furniture I bought was a couple of bookshelves from Ikea
(Robin). These were ~60US each, and got my books off the floor that
same night. They're not even ugly (which is pretty amazing for Ikea).
Some time around Easter I'm still thinking about _finally_ starting
the Stickley bookcase I promised my wife (we've been divorced a few
years now). Yes, they're made of chipboard, but I think I can live
with this more easily than I could live with the book piles.
PS - Does anyone have a simple book-retainer for use on an Ikea
bookshelf ? My copies of Krenov keep throwing themselves off !
--
Smert' Spamionam
Noel Magee
> I am a novice woodworker so you have to excuse any ignorance on my
> part. In the last 6 months I bought my first house. Needless to say we
> don't have much furniture. My thoughts were to build some it/buy some
> it.
<snip>
>
> We saw a cherry veneered entertainment unit from Denmark. Called my
> Dad because he is Mr. Woodworker to look at it. It was on clearance
> because it was discontinued (1/2 off - I knew it wasn't solid
> cherry). Anyway my Dad came and looked at it and said it was garbage.
> All particle board with veneer. He said its no better than the stuff
> you buy at K-mart. Just more expensive.
<snip>
>
> I would like to hear some opinions. Thanks.
>
> John
Certainly I agree with what the others have said in answer to your
question. With the entertainment center you'll also want to consider
whether it's layout will be obsoleted by changes to what it holds.
Bookcases, tables, etc. don't have this problem but entertainment centers
do. Particularly with the upcoming shift to High Def TV which (I believe)
tend to be wider than they are tall. I don't know when most of us will
need to shift to the new sets but it seems unlikely that an entertainment
center purchased today is likely to fill the bill for more than 5-7 years.
Noel