Why does Gorilla glue suck?
Gfretwell
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad
joint.
Ramsey
silicone spray or some other kind of contaminat. That sounds unkike
any experience I have ever had with Gorilla glue. Guess it could be a
bad batch. Also, I have heard that there is a shelf life of one-two
years on a bottle so maybe yours is old stock? Is there a chance you
squeezed all the glue out when you clamped? That's bout all the ideas
I can come up with. Unless the bottom of the rabbet was not square
with the 1/4. It won't bridge a large gap very well. If you used a
wobble dado blade, it leaves the bottom of the joint rather rounded.
Gfretwell
bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.
Bob Gramza
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820161558...@mb-m14.aol.com...
: Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just
Gfretwell
>have been off the shelf.
The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the
shelf life is 3 years.
Leslie Gossett
looks like there was nothing on the end grain of the short piece. Did it
all squeeze out?. I just did a project with polyurethane glue, its the
strongest wood glue I have ever used!
Leslie
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820161558...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A.
End grain joint. Any glue would fail.
Gfretwell
>
>
OK guys we have a test in progress. I took some garden variety $5 a gallon
white glue and made exactly the same joint in a clean section of the groove
with the other end of the stick.
D K Woods
Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows....
david
--
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Doug Miller
I'm not sure I agree. There's enough long grain there to give it some
strength. Sure doesn't look like there was very much glue in the joint,
though. And it definitely could have used some additional reinforcement such
as a tenon or a biscuit.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Ken Yee
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com:
> OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down
> good. I
Why did you wet it?
I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's
no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-)
ken
Patrick Fitzgerald
gfre...@aol.comGreg (Gfretwell) wrote in
news:20030820161558...@mb-m14.aol.com:
That picture looks like you are gluing end grain to long grain?
--
Patrick Fitzgerald - p...@barelyfitz.com
BarelyFitz Designs - http://www.barelyfitz.com/
Leon
times in a row. Probably bad or old product. I use the stuff and it works
great. Things to keep in mind.
DO NOT over tighten your clamps. Always add water to the mating side. Be
certain that your surfaces are as flat as you can possibly make them.
Again, your glue must be bad for it to fail so miserably.
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Tim V
--
Tim
--------
See my page @ http://www.wood-workers.com/users/timv/ (seriously needs
updating)
Leon
is not going to be a strong joint with out a mortise and tennon, biscuit,
dowel or screws to back up the glue.
"
Leon
"Ken Yee" <ken...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down
> > good. I
>
> Why did you wet it?
> I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's
> no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-)
Read the directions on the bottle. Gorilla Glue and or polyurethane glue
cures in the presence of moisture. Adding water speeds cure time.
John McGaw
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Your problem is probably defined in your statements "I wet it down good" and
"'tap in' tight". Additional moisture is absolutely not needed in "normal"
conditions and only the slightest bit of moisture is needed if you live in
someplace with no humidity. I've found that wood with 7-8% moisture content
will activate the glue just fine. The joint should not be so tight as to
drive the glue out while fitting it together. There is some narrow range of
fit which will work -- too tight and you don't have enough glue to do the
job, too loose and the glue has to fill the gap and loses strength (this is
true for all glues, not just the "gorilla" variety). Try it again and DON'T
wet it at all, make the joint 'push together' tight, and see what happens
then report back. I've used this stuff in very difficult glueups in hard
maple and other hardwoods and can state without hesitation that it sticks
fantastically well when used as intended.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com
John McGaw
news:V4S0b.1703$mf6....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
But adding too much water, especially with a tight-grain wood like maple,
causes the glue to foam into nothingness and never get into the pores. If
the wood has 7-8% moisture content I've never had to add moisture and it has
always held fine for me even in some very difficult situations.
Ramsey
nothing else is strong. I was amazed at how strong the bond was. My
end grain was much smoother than your appears though.
Mike G
a problem with it's strength myself. But then I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for and it works pretty well for me.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Robert
use a spray bottle of water to wet one side of the joint, apply the glue,
and clamp it for a few hours. When I take the clamps off, it holds very
tight. After letting it set overnight for a full cure, I finish my
projects. Having used this product only last week, I'd say your results are
very uncommon. Yes, end grain to long grain makes for a weak joint, but
this glue should have held tight enough for the poly joint to "tear". This
stuff sticks to just about anything. For it to not stick at all makes me
think you've got an outdated product or there's some other factor (lots of
sawdust in the joint maybe). Don't know, I wasn't there. I can tell you
only that Poly glues typically work very well, which is why many of us use
them.
Robert
"John McGaw" <now...@all.xyz> wrote in message
news:KWS0b.9288$7F2....@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
Norman Lever
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Jim McLaughlin
'Why in the world would you wet it? next one says 'Look at the directions,
it says so' Third one says 'always wet the one side of the joint'.
Makes you wonder why did you ask! I simply do as the directions say and hope
for the best.
Jim
todd
"D K Woods" <woodw...@dreamdynamics.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:s574efhalvk8$.1j1yul1sytsjz$.dlg@40tude.net...
You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis
Kucinich:
"In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We
hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of
love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic
birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars
in a disaster ..."
todd
Eric Anderson
Here is what I have found. About a year ago a friend of mine and I --
both longtime engineers -- made a test. We both had our opinions. He
liked Gorilla glue, I liked good old yellow PVA woodworker's glue.
We set up identical tests and tested the strength. We both found that
they both had, if properly applied, nearly the same strength. We
found that the PVA was slightly stronger in our tests. And the
strength variations due to application were greater with the Gorilla
Glue. The difference was not enough to be statistically significant.
The conclusion I have come to is:
PVA is the best for normal woodworking projects that do not need
waterproof service. PVA is more forgiving in application (there is no
special surface wetting and other concerns). Polyurethane (Gorilla
Glue) can be used to attach materials that PVA cannot (metal, plastic,
mirrors, etc). Polyurethane is better than even the type II PVA for
wet applications. Gorilla Glue does not fill gaps (with any
strength). Gorilla Glue is very, very messy and you absolutely need
gloves or you will be wearing the stuff for days on your hands until
the skin it is on wears off. Like most adhesives, they each have
their place, but I think the PVA is much easier to work with and
forgiving as long as you are working within its service parameters.
Eric
"John McGaw" <now...@all.xyz> wrote in message news:<KWS0b.9288$7F2....@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>...
Greg O
That was my first thought also, too much water!
I have used Gorilla glue without water with no problems. When I have used
water I just wiped one surface with a barely damp rag, just wet enough so
you could see a trace of moisture on the surface of the wood.
Greg
Bob Bowles
Sweet Sawdust
too tight clamp pressure, too light or no clamp pressure. The picture
looks like too much water and too tight of clamp pressure. I glue edge
grain to end grain on a regular basis with PVA glue and get an almost
(that's almost not totally unbreakable) unbreakable joint, with poly glue
the joint is weaker then with the PVA in that application. Try again with
just a light coat of water or no water and clamp just enough to hold the
wood firmly in place.
"Leslie Gossett" <msles...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:N8R0b.4588$B8....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Gfretwell
It said to on the bottle?
The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I
haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
joint is stronger than the wood".
BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard
maple problem?
Gfretwell
>joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
>directions on the container calls for
"...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces"
The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I
pictured was misted with a spray a bottle.
Everything was cured overnight.
The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going
with gorillaglue.com.
Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue.
Gfretwell
I ask because I don't know.
At this point I am wondering wheter the best answer might be to ignore the
common wisdom of having well manicured surfaces and to scuff up the wood with a
chipped tooth table saw blade where it mates. (and I just threw one of those
away)
Ramsey
glue. I haven't run into that before but the picture did look as
though the end grain was mighty porous.
Leon
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
It is an end grain to side grain problem..the way you are trying to glue the
joint. Try glues on the maple, side grain to side grain and you will
find that is not a maple or glue problem.
Morgans
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
Perhaps this is nothing new, but the joint has to be beyond perfect. Not a
hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too.
--
Jim in NC--
Alan McClure
Why are you two quoting Dennis the Menace for any reason?????
ARM
Gfretwell
>find that is not a maple or glue problem.
I have some failed side to side failures you can look at too. That was what
started this.
The "end grain" is in a mortise that is actually 3/8" deep" (I said 1/4
earlier).
These are typical joints I see everywhere.
I am about to shoot some stainless screws into these joints to save my $60 glue
up. :-)
So far the glue up is holding but the cut off pieces will easily fail
BTW this is Gorrila Glue's answer
"From: in...@gorillaglue.com (Judy Tracy)
To: Gfre...@aol.com
As far as we know, that wasn't a bad lot, but other than sending you another
bottle to try it again, I can't be of any more help. Most of the time the
glue fails, it has to do with moisture.
Judy
Gfretwell
>hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too.
I certainly am getting all sides of this. :-)
"It's too tight"
"It's too loose"
"Too wet"
"Too dry"
I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue.
Morgans
>
> I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue.
>
If it ain't broke..................
--
Jim in NC--
D K Woods
That....is an excellent quote. Thanks for sharing it!
Doug Miller
[Kucinich quotes snipped]
>Why are you two quoting Dennis the Menace for any reason?????
>ARM
Personally, I think they're performing a public service. The better known he
is, the lower the chances of his being elected to any office where he can do
any real damage.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
D K Woods
>>> "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
>>> don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
>>> destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
>>> repair the health of our own people in this country."
>>> -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich
>>
>> hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of
>> love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic
>> birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars
>> in a disaster ..."
>>
>> todd
>
> Why are you two quoting Dennis the Menace for any reason?????
> ARM
No reason really. I happened on the top quote there and added it as a sig.
on a whim. I felt it was a good reality check.
I like the quote that todd points out...I've already saved it away with my
other favorite quotes.
It's about time to change the sig anyway.
david
--
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan
Doug Miller
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan
Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
get caught.
-- David Steup
D K Woods
> In article <vnrxhtxb28pc.1d...@40tude.net>, woodw...@dreamdynamics.nospam.com wrote:
> It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
> learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
> has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
> -- Carl Sagan
>
> Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
> get caught.
> -- David Steup
another excellent addition to my saved quotes!
Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him.
david
--
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan
Morgans
"> --
> "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
> don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
> destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
> repair the health of our own people in this country."
> -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich
Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures
to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.
Just a thought.
--
Jim in NC--
Bay Area Dave
Zealot. He hit up the Wreck a while back for donations for a burial.
We all pretty much told him what he could do with his prosletizing and
begging.
dave
Ben Siders
Bugs me, too. I put filters and rules into my newsreader so I can avoid
being irritated by opaque political naivete demonstrated by people who
have to wear their opinions on their sleeves. Among the blind rage of
the American League of Bush-Haters, the Rush Limbaugh fanboys, and all of
the anti-Semetism, it gets difficult to filter it all out, and once you do
the same droll ramblings show up in sigs. Oh well. This is why the
newsgroups have a bad rep for the noise::bandwidth ratio.
D K Woods
> Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures
> to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
> woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.
>
> Just a thought.
I guess you could also ask why people have political or religious
statements on bumper stickers. Driving, after all, are supposed to be
about going from one location to another without someone else's baggage
making them mad....
I've always felt signatures are a way of showing a little about your
personality. They might reveal beliefs, interests, etc. The tragedy is
when they are taken too seriously.
I didn't mean to incite anything. In fact, I don't even know who Kucinich
is. I just saw the quote somewhere and thought it was nifty. I'm going to
try and keep my sigs light from now on.
cheers,
david
--
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan
Doug Miller
>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:23 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article <vnrxhtxb28pc.1d...@40tude.net>,
> woodw...@dreamdynamics.nospam.com wrote:
>> It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
>> learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
>> has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
>> -- Carl Sagan
>>
>> Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
>> get caught.
>> -- David Steup
>
>another excellent addition to my saved quotes!
>
>Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him.
>
smartest people I've ever known. Has an MS in pharmacy, PhD in toxicology, and
I don't know what else.
Neil Woods
>
> It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
> learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human
being
> has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
> -- Carl Sagan
And that is a very nifty quote to use as your .sig. I'm gonna save it!
Ben Siders
Also interesting to note that humans aren't caught in fishing nets
deployed my the dolphins and served in casserole along tuna and cheese,
nor subjugated by dolphins are taught to react to verbal signals. My dog
knows about 12 words of English. Guide dogs for the blind often know
German. So what?
Morgans
"@40tude.net...
>
> > Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious
signatures
> > to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
> > woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.
> >
> > Just a thought.
>
> I guess you could also ask why people have political or religious
> statements on bumper stickers. Driving, after all, are supposed to be
> about going from one location to another without someone else's baggage
> making them mad....
The Difference is, that I don't carry on a conversation with the idgets with
the bumper sticker, and don't have any chance to voice my counter points. I
might converse with you, and would like to do so, without wanting to spout
off.
Don't feel like I was picking on just you. There are many others, but I
usually bite my tounge, and save giving a piece of mind. Problem is, I
don't like holding back.
--
Jim in NC--
Alan McClure
Doug Miller wrote:
Maybe not, they could be on leave from their school (pod) for some post dock
work in foreign/primative languages or primate studies.
ARM
Doug Miller
>
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article <vnrxhtxb28pc.1d...@40tude.net>,
> woodw...@dreamdynamics.nospam.com wrote:
>> It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
>> learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
>> has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
>> -- Carl Sagan
>>
>> Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
>> get caught.
>> -- David Steup
>Maybe not, they could be on leave from their school (pod) for some post dock
>work in foreign/primative languages or primate studies.
>
>ARM
>
In some ways, that's an even more disturbing thought.
D K Woods
> The Difference is, that I don't carry on a conversation with the idgets with
> the bumper sticker, and don't have any chance to voice my counter points. I
> might converse with you, and would like to do so, without wanting to spout
> off.
>
> Don't feel like I was picking on just you. There are many others, but I
> usually bite my tounge, and save giving a piece of mind. Problem is, I
> don't like holding back.
I had never meant for my signature to inspire conversation, either. It was
just supposed to be there, innocently lurking below my name. Perhaps to be
read, mostly to be ignored. Never to be its own thread....
I couldn't agree more, that the conversation here should be about
woodworking. I am really wishing I hadn't chosen what turned out to be
such a volatile signature.
Leon
"Morgans" <doitony...@evryone.net> wrote in message
>
> Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious
signatures
> to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
> woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.
Because they may be insecure with their beliefs and probably need that
constant reminder.
Morgans
> I couldn't agree more, that the conversation here should be about
> woodworking. I am really wishing I hadn't chosen what turned out to be
> such a volatile signature.
>
> david
All is forgiven! :-)
--
Jim in NC--
Larry Blanchard
removespa...@swbell.net says...
> Because they may be insecure with their beliefs and probably need that
> constant reminder.
>
Or perhaps they're trying to give a constant reminder to others. After
all, the US media and public have a very short memory :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
Morgans
"Larry Blanchard" <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:bi3ju2$4vf9v$1...@ID-124996.news.uni-berlin.de...
When one of those WMD's that got taken to Syria before the war started, ends
up shoved up your A**, you will know where they are.
See what you made me do? I couldn't hold back when you so immaturely
presented such a large target.
--
Jim in NC--
Dave Balderstone
Blanchard <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> --
> Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
Or, perhaps they want to offer an opposing viewpoint to an opinion
already offered.
;-)
djb
--
------
WOMD?
<http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html>
Leon
area.
D K Woods
:)
Alan McClure
Doug Miller wrote:
LOL!!! I just found out milk makes a good monitor cleaner.
ARM
Rick Chamberlain
gfre...@aol.comGreg says...
> Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just
> bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.
>
> http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif
>
How tight was the clamping pressure?
Rick
Morgans
"Dave Balderstone" <dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:210820031859560709%dave***@balderstone.ca...
> In article <bi3ju2$4vf9v$1...@ID-124996.news.uni-berlin.de>, Larry
> Blanchard <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > --
> > Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
>
> Or, perhaps they want to offer an opposing viewpoint to an opinion
> already offered.
>
> ;-)
>
> djb
>This is rec.woodworking, not rec.war, or rec. politics
I hate being a net nanny, but someone has to do it.
--
Jim in NC--
Bob Bowles
which was somewhat remote from religious affiliations (I think).
Steve
"Bob Bowles" <nosp...@vcoms.net> wrote in message
news:30u9kvgm3nbd2f3qu...@4ax.com...
> Had a boss with bumper sticker "Have you hugged your toilet laterly?"
> which was somewhat remote from religious affiliations (I think).
>
Nope, during college I worshipped at the Altar of the Porcelain God
quite a bit.
Brett A. Thomas
I think the problem with political sigs on apolitical newsgroups is
that they have a real tendency to derail threads. If I see a sig that
you think is brilliant, but I think is incredibly stupid or naive,
it's very hard to keep from replying to the sig.
Heck, I keep waiting for some Christian to point out to JOAT why Jesus
was so special. :)
-BAT
Alan McClure
"Brett A. Thomas" wrote:
OK, I'll bite. #1 son?
ARM
Bob Schmall
Remember that per the instructions, apply the glue lightly to one of the two
surfaces and apply water lightly to the other. The glue draws its moisture
from that water, and will expand to about 4x its original volume. Then clamp
tightly for 1-4 hours. The end grain to end grain joint isn't very strong,
but it should have held better than what you've described if the glue was
properly applied.
Bob
.
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.comGreg> wrote in message
news:20030820153811...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
> glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
> fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
> the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
> have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
> joint.
Dave Balderstone
> I hate being a net nanny, but someone has to do it.
Yeah, right...
djb
--
"You know why men name their penis? Because we wouldn't want a total stranger
making all our decisions for us!" -- Ed the Sock
Brett A. Thomas
Alan McClure <mccl...@gwis.com> writes:
>
>
>"Brett A. Thomas" wrote:
>> Heck, I keep waiting for some Christian to point out to JOAT why Jesus
>> was so special. :)
>
"Jack of All Trades" (JOAT) has a current sig of "If we're all God's
children, what's so special about Jesus?" If I were a Christian, I
imagine it would be very tempting to write a long ranting response
explaining what was so special about Jesus. Since I'm not, I feel no
such compulsion, but I keep expecting that sig to generate a huge
thread.
Heck, maybe it's just about to do so. :)
-BAT
Dave Mundt
On 20 Aug 2003 19:38:11 GMT, gfre...@aol.comGreg (Gfretwell) wrote:
>OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
>glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight
>fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke
>the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would
>have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad
>joint.
Try the same test with PVA glue. I suspect you will have
similar results on the same joint.
However, here is my $0.02 on this thread. First off, one of
the joys of hard maple is that it is not porous. Makes it great for
cutting boards, etc, but, can make it a challenge to glue. For tenons
like that, I don't like a glass smooth surface, so, will either hit
the wood with a rasp, or some low grit (60-80 grit) sandpaper).
Then...there is the fact that a 1/4" tenon is a VERY small
amount of glue area. there is a direct connection between glue area
and strength of the joint. For a joint like this, I would want to
either pin it with brads, or, wedge it for added strength.
I am a LITTLE concerned with the "wet it down good" remark. I
find that I get the best results when I lightly dampen ONE side of the
joint and paint the glue on the other surface. If you wipe a damp
cloth lightly across the surface, so it really does not look "wet"
when done, that is probably plenty of moisture to kick in the
reaction.
There is a question about the tightness of the joint. While I
like fine-fitting mortise and tenon joints as well as the next person,
I think that if one needs a mallet to get it together, it is TOO
tight. A joint that is too tight will simply scrape the glue off the
surface, leaving too little for a strong joint. I shoot for tenons
that slide into the mortise with a SLIGHT amount of resistance. Of
course, slightly more porous woods can be tighter, as the pores of the
wood will hold the glue and allow a good, mechanical interlock. That,
by the by, is the "secret" of glue. It can "wet" or soak in, to both
surfaces, then, when it sets, it produces little ties from one surface
to the other. Also, for other joints, clamp tightness can be an issue.
I recommend tightening the clamps to about half a turn past the point
that the joint is firmly heald together - the point that a few, small
beads of glue squeeze out of the joint. You DONT want to clamp down
so tightly that the clamp is warping and the glue sprays out
of the joint. That leads to glue starvation just as a too tight
joint can, and a weak joint.
Finally, there is the fact that Gorilla Glue (and all the
clone Poly glues) are brittle when set. That is GOOD, in that
it makes it possible to sand off the glue line without clogging
the sandpaper. The bad side is, alas, that it is more sensitive
to shock forces - say...like a hammer blow. I have found that
under those circumstances, the glue line WILL shatter and allow
the wood to fall apart. I suspect that if you had simply taken
the two pieces of wood and tried to pull them apart with your hands,
you might have had more of a problem. PVA glues remain flexible
for a long time, and, so, act like shock absorbers and are better
at dealing with flexing and shock to the joint.
I would suggest this for maximum strength:
1) make the joint bigger, if possible, and, slightly looser.
No mallets but simply a firm push should be enough to put it together.
Also, accuracy counts. aim to cut joints that sit together with no
gaps WITHOUT clamps or glue.
2) If not possible to make the joint bigger, then, look at
wedging or pinning it for extra strength. When doing boxes, for
example, I will miter the corners, then, add decorative splines to
increase the joint strength.
3) either lightly dampen or put NO water on the joint before
coating ONE surface of the joint with glue.
4) When clamping apply light but firm pressure. My "perfect
clamp" is when I get it so the clamp is tight when I have just glued
up the piece, but, when the glue is dry, the clamp is slightly loose.
If you have to apply clamp pressure to pull gaps in the joint
together, it is probably a badly cut joint, and, is wanting to fail
already.
Regards
dave mundt
brad
> >Why did you wet it?
>
> It said to on the bottle?
>
> The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I
> haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
> joint is stronger than the wood".
> BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard
> maple problem?
I think there may be a couple things going on here. First, an end
grain joint is inherently weak. I know, I know, one side is edge
grain, but a joint hath two sides, and is only as strong as its
weakest component. Second, and this is speculative because I obviously
didn't see you glue the joint, it sounds like, perhaps because of your
prior troubles, you may have used TOO much water. As others have
indicated, PU works best in the presence of MOISTURE. I've seen people
really dousing the wood prior to using this stuff (again, I'm not
saying YOU did this). Just a very light misting of water from a spray
bottle is MORE than enough.
For an end grain joint like this, I would use epoxy. Or some
mechanical assistance.
brad
> >Why did you wet it?
>
> It said to on the bottle?
>
> The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I
> haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
> joint is stronger than the wood".
> BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard
> maple problem?
One other thing: If it's hard maple, my experience with that wood has
been that, particularly when it's sanded, it can become almost
"burnished" so that it does not absorb stain, for example, easily.
I'm wondering whether whatever quality that causes that also affects
its "glue-ability?"
Gfretwell
the milled wood did the best job of holding vs a freshly sawn edge. I didn't
see any significant difference between Gorilla Glue and garden variety yellow
glue in strength.
nancy
--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/why-does-gorilla-glue-suck-144291-.htm
Michael Trew
> I tried the glue on the liner of my eyeglass case. I moistened one side
> and gorilla the opposite side. I clamped the 2 sides together. I thought
> great! The next morning the liner popped open and came right apart.
> Gorilla glue is deficient! Im very disappointed. 😕
>
whit3rd
What you need for a good bond, is to wet both surfaces with the glue (doesn't take
much) rather than with water (especially, water changes the dimension of wood, so
will guarantee a bad bond). Then mist the glue and clamp the parts together.
Leon
> I tried the glue on the liner of my eyeglass case. I moistened one side
> and gorilla the opposite side. I clamped the 2 sides together. I
> thought great! The next morning the liner popped open and came right
> apart. Gorilla glue is deficient! Im very disappointed. 😕
>
any Gorilla brand glue when used as intended and as instructed.
Leon
kdowney1966
Leon
> all i can say is gorilla glue sucks ! nor iuser friendly in terms or
> workability or clean up and the dispenser top is also poorly designed
>
it becomes much easier to use.
Gorilla glue for wood, similar to Tite Bond I, II, and III is simple to use.
Dave7091
Markem618
<bcbe9ae951ffd5ce...@example.com> wrote:
>Everything and I do mean everything has completely failed from their tape to their glue .... everything....it use to be the best stuff on the shelf....now I'll never buy it again
DerbyDad03
> Everything and I do mean everything has completely failed from their tape to their glue .... everything....it use to be the best stuff on the shelf....now I'll never buy it again
Maybe it's user error?
Leon
that is like Elmers wood glue, and Titebond wood glue.