Finish method(s) for arts & Crafts table
Digger
get some complete ideas from the pros here. I am making an A&C style table
from QS Oak, and would like to know how to finish it in the popular color
and top coat(s). I have been experimenting with BLO, Tung, shellac, Poly,
wipe-on Poly, and others on scrap wood to see how they work, and it leaves
me wondering what the seasoned WW'ers do.
Presume I have my table ready to finish, and tell me your favorite process
from sanding grit to the last step. I guess there will be differing
responses, but bet that many of us newbies will gain a lot from the answers.
Is there a "standard" stain color for Mission and A&C furniture made of QS
Oak?
Thank you in advance,
Digger (and other newbies)
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Mike
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Digger" <DW> wrote in message news:3eaad...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Digger
"Mike" <mi...@heirloom-woods.net> wrote in message
news:VUIqa.660167$S_4.708208@rwcrnsc53...
> Traditional finish for Arts and crafts/mission furniture is fuming.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
Yeah, I understand that, but was hoping to be able to get a nice look using
a method other than fuming. don't really have the stuff/space to set up for
fuming. Google search came up with a few ideas, but most were from '96 or
so, and I was wondering what the current wisdom might be. the QS Oak I have
has great grain and flecking and would really like to show it off in the
piece. From what I have read, the fuming seems to dull out the flecking
while darkening the wood in general. How are you guys who are not fuming
getting good results, and what products are you using?
Digger
JGS
Jeff Jewitt has an excellent site. It's worth book marking. I went there and
searched under mission and got this hit. Cheers, JG
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm
Mike
the provision that it provide the necessary protection for where ever the
pieces would live I'd go with several coats of home brew danish oil or the
infamous 1/3,1/3,1/3 oil, varnish, thinner formula. .
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Digger" <DW> wrote in message news:3eab7...@corp.newsgroups.com...
mitch
quite frankly my clients need finished products that match originals -
impossible given the fuming technique and the passage of time. I reproduced
an early "Gus" piano (the 1905 prototype) for the Stickley Museum in NJ
about a year ago. They did extensive research on the original (still in
Stickley's family) and found no evidence of fuming on the original, nor on
the other later piano in their possesion and the majority of the pieces in
the collection in the museum.
Remember, competition was fierce back then, as now. Gus and his brothers had
knock-offs coming from all directions and none of them had the time to fume
anymore than today's factories do. A few important pieces were fumed early
on. The need to avoid bankruptcy (Gus went under, as did many others)
slimmed the finishing process to the bare essentials. The Roycrofters basic
formula for color application is very well known to include rusty
water/vinegar, a process found in a recent woodworking article.
Do a search on google for wood finishes, etc., but it's: dye, seal, glaze,
topcoats.
Mitch
Digger <DW> wrote in message news:3eaad...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Digger
news:3EABBD15...@sympatico.ca...
> Hi Digger,
> Jeff Jewitt has an excellent site. It's worth book marking. I went there
and
> searched under mission and got this hit. Cheers, JG
>
>
> http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm
>
Thank You very much. This is the type info I am looking for. He even goes
over a lighter version of the process, and this is exactly the look we are
after. Now to find out which products are avail locally and what I have to
order.
Dig
Digger
> Well, to tell the truth, I'm not a big fan of the fumed look anyway. With
> the provision that it provide the necessary protection for where ever the
> pieces would live I'd go with several coats of home brew danish oil or the
> infamous 1/3,1/3,1/3 oil, varnish, thinner formula. .
>
> --
expounding on what it actually is and how it is applied. Also, i assume you
are saying this is instead of a stain/glaze method? What are the uses for
this solution? would you, for instance, use this finish over walnut or
maple? I am building a couple of wedding gifts of boxes holding wedding
photo albums that are maple with waterfall bubinga veneered top inserts and
probably maple splines in the corners. I am looking for a very nice finish
for this project, and wonder if this 1/3.... would be the ticket?
Mike G
otherwise. I like natural when I can get away with it.
The first rule of finishing is, will the finish provide the minimum
protection necessary for the use the piece is going to be put to.
Whether it is Danish Oil )home brew or otherwise) the 1/3 mix, or any of the
other brews favored, they are not surface finishes and provide minimum
protection. Any combination that contains varnish will provide a bit more
then the others due to the varish resins. You will also not get any
significant surface build. The look will be warm and will leave you with the
feel of the wood.
In the project you are planning, yes, the combination should provide the
necessary protection. I also happen to think that walnut looks especially
nice with an oil finish.
There isn't alot of differnece between Danish oil, and thinned varnish
(anywhere from 15 to 50 percent). They really boil down to a wiping varnish.
One that has been thinned enough so the resins soak into the wood and don't
build up. You can use regular varnish or poly and any appropriate thinner.
Paint thinner/mineral spirits or turpintine.
Adding an oil to go for the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 formula makes it a bit thicker and
would probably require less coats to achieve the same look.
Oil can be tung or boiled linseed, I'd probably go with boild linseed,
varnish can be any kind, and the thinner, again, would be paint
thinner/mineral spriits or turpentine.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Digger" <DW> wrote in message news:3eac0...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Mike G
Without getting into an extended thread on it. G. Stickly, though he was an
advocate of the Art's and Craft's movement right down to it's socilist
theories, did mass produce what came to be called Mission funrtiure branch
of the Arts and Crafts style. Necessity dictated that it was not practical
for him to fume his product. It wasn't cost effective.
On the other hand, during the late nineteenth century at the start of the
arts and crafts movment in England, recycled wood from old barns, that is
wood that was naturally fumed from years, in some cases centuries, of
exposure to the ammonia fumes of animal urine, was all the rage for making
arts and crafts furniture. When the supply ran short, you can only tear down
so many barns, investisgation into what caused barn wood to look the way it
did led to the fuming technique we use today.
In short, while you can say that old Gustav did not fume his funtiure, it is
entirely historically accurate to say that fumed oak was the traditional
wood used for Arts and Crafts furniture.
A thought
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"mitch" <mi...@mitchellandrus.com> wrote in message
news:VmRqa.13963$J27....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
Andy Dingley
>I am making an A&C style table
>from QS Oak, and would like to know how to finish it
Fume it. It's quick (no drying time), easy (impossible to make a mess
of) and avoids noxious solvents (I've seen pets that smelled worse).
It's also _right_.
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>Actually I'm saying I don't like any coloring, fuming, staining, glazing, or
>otherwise. I like natural when I can get away with it.
What about quartersawn oak though ? Now it looks "fine" as it is, but
you're hardly emphasising the ray flake you paid extra money at the
sawmill for.
Mike G
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:shoqavk4278un4q9a...@4ax.com...
Swingman
my youth with a pitch fork in my hands cleaning out stalls, it is impossible
to say just how much one can appreciate the origin of the process of
"fuming" white oak.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/21/03
"Mike G" wrote in message
xylene
> arts and crafts movment in England, recycled wood from old barns, that is
> wood that was naturally fumed from years, in some cases centuries, of
> exposure to the ammonia fumes of animal urine, was all the rage for making
> arts and crafts furniture. When the supply ran short, you can only tear
down
> so many barns, investisgation into what caused barn wood to look the way
it
> did led to the fuming technique we use today.
Imagine the difficulty in marketing the v1.0 furniture line with its
characteristic urine stain.
Todd Stock
Both Jeff and Chris Schwartz have recently written articles for FWW and PW that
delete the shellac step between dye stain and glaze. Having done things both
ways, I could not see a difference, so dropped the shellac except for the final
barrier coat.
- Scrape/sand to 220
- Wet entire project with distilled water (if you have any iron in your water,
it will end up spotting the oak); resand to 220; repeat if necessary (necessary
on wilder grain)
- Spray or brush application of Transfast Early American Maple water-based
aniline dye (mixed using distilled water); allow to dry (nice medium reddish
brown)
- Green Scotchbrite pad to remove any fuzzies; touch up any edges with another
spot app of dye prior to next step.
At this point, the dye job may look a bit uneven - perfectly OK - the glaze will
tie together
- Apply Lilly/Valspar Warm Brown Glaze; remove excess by wiping across the grain
with cheesecloth or burlap when it flashes (turns dull)
- Allow glaze to dry for a few days, then Scotchbrite off any nibs, etc.
- Apply mist coat of shellac, followed by final finish (shellac for base and cat
lacquer for top)
- Wax with Briwax medium brown, or dark brown if you want the look of more age
David Hannu
> > http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm
> >
>
> Thank You very much. This is the type info I am looking for. He even goes
> over a lighter version of the process, and this is exactly the look we are
> after. Now to find out which products are avail locally and what I have to
> order.
>
> Dig
Fine Woodworking had an article a few months ago on Mission Oak Finish.
It was similar to the Homesteadfinishing web page article, except they
used a pigmented stain (with Gilsonite) instead of glaze.
-Dave
--
David Hannu dha...@centurytel.net
Todd Stock
David Hannu
I wonder why shellac is required between dye and glaze, but not between
dye and pigmented stain?
Russ Ramirez
>snip<
> I wonder why shellac is required between dye and glaze, but not between
> dye and pigmented stain?
>
> -Dave
Generally, you apply glaze over a washcoat of some kind, typically
lacquer or shellac. The reasons for this include sealing the wood to
prevent too much coloration from the pigment in the glaze and improved
workability of the glaze once it is set. If all you do is apply the
glaze and wipe it off, then there is not a lot of difference between
using glaze and a sufficently strong stain. On quarter-sawn oak, there
is even less difference.
However, consider a cabinet door panel in off-white with a brown glaze
that highlights the raised portion of the panel, as well as any edge
details. In a commercial environment you are probably going to dry
brush the glaze after it sets-up (thickens and dries out a bit), then
you will seal the glaze after waiting the appropriate amount of time.
The other reason a wash coat can be laid down first is if it includes
the base color coat. With spray equipment you would add dye to the
shellac or lacquer to set the base color, followed by glaze, then
sealer and topcoats.
For an enthusiast, you'll probably get better results glazing directly
over either the dye or a coat of thinned varnish - either way you
won't be risking that the dye (any type of dye) may be re-dissolved by
the application of the shellac and bleeding into it.
Russ Ramirez
Todd Stock
is just a thicker stain.