IPE Deck -- Shrinking and Stain Resistent???
Stewart Apelzin
I had an IPE deck installed outside my Eugene, Oregon home in May.
Now in September, after a Summer of hot/warm weather, the deck has
shrunk, and all the SuperDeck UV inhibitor has disappeared.
I am now in a finger pointing match with the retailer of the wood, an
intermediary who stored the wood, and the deck installer. All agree
that the deck is not satisfactory, but none will take responsibility.
I have some questions that I hope you experienced IPE folks can
answer:
1) The retailer says that the wood was stored in the rain and became
excessively moist. It has shrunk a lot since installation.. it was
laid with 1/16" spacing between boards, and is now closer to 1/2".
Does it make sense that the boards could have picked up that much
moisture sitting under a tarp in 2 months to shrink that much in the
heat.
2) I have read that it's not that easy to stain any IPE deck.
However, the Superdeck looked great in May, and now you can't even
tell that it was applied. The retailer wants to sell me Parafin to
apply now. I tried Parafin on one portion of the deck, and after a
few days of sunshine, the Parafin is also fading. Does this mean the
deck is still too "wet"? I'd like to get some sealer on it before we
hit our 6-month rainy season. Any suggestions?
3) The deck installer used galvanized nails for installation. I
notice black rings around the nails now. It is normal to see this?
Also, some nails are coming up. Is this from deck contraction? Would
applying screws next to these nails be a good remedy?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Stewart Apelzin
sape...@fastmail.fm
P&B Bishop
The "Galvanized" nails were obviously nailed in place. However this process
fractures the coating. Now the iron core is exposed. "rust" is forming. In
about a year or less the nail heads should show obvious signs of rust. In
the future you should consider using stainless steel screws. "McFeely's"
(sp) sells a variety of stainless hardware. The stainless screws I used on
my deck are about two years old and show no sign of corrosion. I would send
a email to various companies that make coatings and see what they recommend.
Be sure to include where you live and the amount of sun exposure you get and
obviously the type of wood is critical.
Leon
come up with a solution before your attorney does.
Leon
woods and create dark spots.
Not necessarily is the coating damaged or the nail rusting, and probably is
not. The whole purpose of galvanizing a nail is to prevent rust.
But yes, stainless steel nails or "SCREWS" should have been the choice to
use with an upper end material such as Ipe.
"P&B Bishop" <pbi...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:5HQf9.1364$e44....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Dave M
definitely haven't seen shrinkage like you're talking about. Deck was
installed with screws so no issue there. Last summer, the builder of the
deck applied a UV inhibitor and it dried up/faded fast. We had a second deck
that didn't have the finish and we actually prefer the faded to silver gray
look so aren't renewing the main deck finish. Looks a bit spotty but by next
summer, doubt there will be much of the original finish left except where
part of the deck is covered by the front porch. It looked to us like we
would have to renew the finish regularly so decided to go natural to avoid
the work.
"Stewart Apelzin" <sape...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:9821f9b8.02091...@posting.google.com...
Guy Scharf
> I had an IPE deck installed outside my Eugene, Oregon home in May.
> Now in September, after a Summer of hot/warm weather, the deck has
> shrunk, and all the SuperDeck UV inhibitor has disappeared.
>
> I am now in a finger pointing match with the retailer of the wood,
> an intermediary who stored the wood, and the deck installer. All
> agree that the deck is not satisfactory, but none will take
> responsibility.
>
> I have some questions that I hope you experienced IPE folks can
> answer:
I'm not an experienced IPE user, but we did look into IPE closely last
year when we were considing building a new deck (in Port Townsend, WA).
> 2) I have read that it's not that easy to stain any IPE deck.
> However, the Superdeck looked great in May, and now you can't even
> tell that it was applied. The retailer wants to sell me Parafin
> to apply now. I tried Parafin on one portion of the deck, and
> after a few days of sunshine, the Parafin is also fading. Does
> this mean the deck is still too "wet"? I'd like to get some
> sealer on it before we hit our 6-month rainy season. Any
> suggestions?
We didn't get as far as deciding on what exactly to treat the wood
with. Untreated, IPE is supposed to weather to a silver-gray color.
Keeping that lovely deep, dark color requires treatments.
> 3) The deck installer used galvanized nails for installation. I
> notice black rings around the nails now. It is normal to see
> this? Also, some nails are coming up. Is this from deck
> contraction? Would applying screws next to these nails be a good
> remedy?
My understanding from our research at the time was that stainless steel
screws (with predrilled holes) or hidden under deck clips were the
standard for IPE. The objections to galvanized were a) possible
staining and b) shorter life than the IPE itself. Every web page that
I found that describes IPE installation recommends stainless steel
rather than galvanized.
I wonder if it would be feasible to pull the nails that are coming up
and replace them with SS screws?
I wish you luck on getting someone to stand up and take responsibility
for fixing the problem!
Guy
Steve Knight
>1) The retailer says that the wood was stored in the rain and became
>excessively moist. It has shrunk a lot since installation.. it was
>laid with 1/16" spacing between boards, and is now closer to 1/2".
>Does it make sense that the boards could have picked up that much
>moisture sitting under a tarp in 2 months to shrink that much in the
>heat.
>
moisture content from insufficient drying. I doubt getting stored in the rain
would have added much moisture really.
>3) The deck installer used galvanized nails for installation. I
>notice black rings around the nails now. It is normal to see this?
>Also, some nails are coming up. Is this from deck contraction? Would
>applying screws next to these nails be a good remedy?
sounds like they were cheep stainless should have been used.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Minorite
>and all the SuperDeck UV inhibitor has disappeared.
superdeck makes a product specifically for "exotic hardwood decks".
bob
Tom E Williams
The lumberman:
Hardwoods, in general, and ipe specifically will shrink more than
softwoods as they go from green to equilibrium moisture content.
However, they don't readsorb moisture as readily. For this reason I've
seen ipe decking manufacturers actually recommend installation with no
gap at all (though most say 1/16), knowing that the wood was going to
shrink a bit more but not expand in the rain. Substantial expansion in
the rain and subsequent reshrinkage of lumber that was only partially
air dried to begin with seems quite unlikely unless you were in a two
monsoon. For this reason, any excessive moisture in the wood is almost
certainly the result of selling it while it was still too green. This
is fundamental information that all lumbermen know. Look up the data
in the Wood Manual, put out by the USDA Forest Products Laboratory. I
bet your lumberman even has a copy.
The storer:
Perhaps he should have stored it under a tarp, but I doubt this would
have had much affect. Not done carefully, it might have inhibited air
flow, slowed drying, and promoted mold and mildew. I think this guy
has the least amount of responsibility, frankly.
The installer:
Here's where I suspect the greatest responsibility lies. An ipe deck
should absolutely never be installed with galvanized nails. Stainless
steel nails are ok, and stainless steel screws are the standard. The
fact that he used galvanized tells me he has been installing pressure
treated pine decks - not ipe or even cedar. You mention the decking
has shrunk, but don't specify what problems that caused. Is it just
that the gaps are bigger than you'd like? If so, then I'd say again
that your installer did not know the material, did not realized that
ipe will shrink more than pt pine, and may have left too large a gap
at installation. I've seen pt pine installers use a nail width to set
the spacing. This is a good bit larger than 1/16. A 4 inch ipe board
will shrink another 1/16 after installation for a final gap near 1/8.
Do you have much more than this? If so, you have no way of knowing
whether dry wood was installed incorrectly or green wood was installed
correctly. If I had to guess, I'd say the former.
You:
You hired the guy, after all. You should at the least asked if he had
experience with ipe decking.
The fix. Pull out the nails before they stain the wood. Replace with
bugle head stainless steel square drive nails from McFeely's. They
should be at least 2 1/2 inches long with diameters such that they can
be pushed through the nail hole by hand. You want them to grab the
support structure, not the decking. Let the wood weather naturally to
a teak gray and leave it forever, or if you insist on a finish look
for Messmer's or Penofin or Sitkens.
Tom
Larry Jaques
posted recycled pixels stating:
>Hello all,
>
>I had an IPE deck installed outside my Eugene, Oregon home in May.
>Now in September, after a Summer of hot/warm weather, the deck has
>shrunk, and all the SuperDeck UV inhibitor has disappeared.
One suggestion is to make the installer pull the deck up and
reattach it with smaller gaps using the stainless screws he
should have used in the first place. Make the retailer give
you the extra boards to make up the difference, and more UV
inhibitor to do the deck right.
You may have nixed that by using paraffin on it, though.
G'luck!
--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
xylene
redecking probably would be only a moderate PITA. Also curious if the
boards are showing any checking? Is the deck in the full sun?
I have a pickup rack made with ipe and I put lots of marine Penofin on it
and still it checked somewhat. I have some doubts about the cost/benefit of
ipe as decking, so everyone chime in and educate me.
Ivy
Portland OR
Leon
with out any preservative at all and has a life expectancy of up to 50 years
out doors. Ipe is so dense that very little finish or preservative will
penetrate.
"xylene" <bartm...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3fqg9.294102$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Steve Knight
>Unless you want to preserve the dark brown color, Ipe does well outdoors
>with out any preservative at all and has a life expectancy of up to 50 years
>out doors. Ipe is so dense that very little finish or preservative will
>penetrate.
actually that's not so. when I was using the vacuum to seal my planes the finish
got quite deep in the IPE. deeper then cocobolo or most non porous hardwoods.
don't ask me why. though not all IPE did it some did and some did not.
Leon
sources..
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:ntd5oustns5lhmagr...@4ax.com...
Steve Knight
>Really.... I stand corrected....I had heard otherwise from a couple of
>sources..
they never pulled a vacuum on it (G) but there are several woods called IPE and
some did and some did not. it surprised me tough.
Leon
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:efr6ou0a0v2or5ak4...@4ax.com...
Steve Knight
>OBTY I got your letter today.. Thanks..
that was fast.