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HELP!!! Custom maple kitchen cabinets RUINED!!!

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Stephen & Michelle Cook

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Aug 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/8/99
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How I cringe as I type this...

We are building a new home and chose custom maple cabinets for our
kitchen and family room (big open space). Unfinished, the cabinets
were beautiful.

We wanted a finish that was about the color of natural, unstained
cherry. (we chose maple rather than cherry for the cabinets because
of durability and cost)

It's our builder's painter, not the cabinetmaker, that stains and
finishes all cabinetry for this builder. Most, if not all, of the
homes get red oak cabinets which seem to stain up just fine.

Now stained and our cabinets look horrible!!! They are blotchy (yes,
we know this happens with maple, but figured the cabinetmaker would
have advised the painter how to avoid this), there are large, dark
brown blotches, black surface "burn" like areas of the grain, the end
grain of raised panels is hideously dark, etc.

I know the product they used was Nitro lacquer stain from Kelly-Moore.

I think it was the dark mahogany color. I can't believe they actually

lacquered over this mess, thinking it was acceptable!!!

Our superintendant does know of the problem and has ordered some
replacement doors for the blotches, and he did say we have "carte
blanche" to have anything unacceptable to us replaced. The problem
is, all of the cabinet faces, doors, and drawers are unacceptable.
Some are also maple veneer inside because we have glass doors or it's
where things like the TV go or open shelves are. I'm going to talk to

the builder himself on Monday, and let him know that they are
completely unacceptable to us.

We won't accept these cabinets in this condition. What we'd like to
know is what the proper prep, coloring medium (aniline dye? water or
alcohol based?)are for maple cabinets and what the best finish is for
kitchen cabinets? I believe they should have a polyurethane rather
than a lacquer, but want to make sure. We just don't want the second
set of cabinets (and who knows how big a delay that's going to cause
us) similarly ruined (these can't be saved, can they?)

Clearly, having a painting contractor do the cabinet finishing could
be a mistake, too, but I don't think we have a say in that.

Personal e-mail is mkc...@us.spamless.ibm.com (and remove "spamless"
for successful sending :-) )

Many thanks for some good advice,

Michelle

Darin Minor

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Aug 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/8/99
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Hi Michelle,
Don't accept these cabinets, you're going to look at them every day. If
your not happy now you won't be happy in ten years, though you may learn
to live with them, you shouldn't have to. Don't give up on your fight,
it's your hard earned money paying for them not the builder's. There is a
product called "Benite" (sp) made by Daly's that will allow the stain to
go on more evenly and not blotch up. I wish you luck and don't leave the
builder's office untill this has been resolved and in writing.
Darin

Russell Zueger

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Aug 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/8/99
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maple isnt the best thing to stain. If i was going to stain it i would
use laquer and water it down say like 5 parts thinner to one part laquer
and paint it on twice. then stain it with a light color of the stain
then seal it again with the thinned down laquer. and repeat until you
get the color you want. You cold sand the old ones but its alot of work
and if there vaneered it's not worth it. I would contact a local
cabinet maker and ask him if he can do it. and make him gaurantee they
are even or he pays to fix them.


John Milton

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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I am not familliar with the stain product you mention but the problem
sounds like the wood was not sealed prior to staining. Oil stains or
analine dyes can both be used sucessfully on maple as long as they are
properly applied. As a general rule the analine is less prone to the type
of blotching problems that can be seen in maple, pine or (helmet on)
cherry (helmet off)

I would have thought that if pigmented Nitro was to be the colorant
that it would go on as the second coat rather than the first, thus
the wood would be sealed to provide even cover.... YMMV

If you are going to junk it all anyway, and all that is on there is Nitro
it might be worth stripping a piece and see what happens. Lacquer thinner
takes it off. (follow all instructions on can, fairly nasty stuff)

Larry Jaques

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 15:01:01 GMT, mkc...@us.spamless.ibm.com (Stephen
& Michelle Cook) wrote:

>How I cringe as I type this...
>
>We are building a new home and chose custom maple cabinets for our
>kitchen and family room (big open space). Unfinished, the cabinets
>were beautiful.
>
>We wanted a finish that was about the color of natural, unstained
>cherry. (we chose maple rather than cherry for the cabinets because
>of durability and cost)

My fave Minister from the Church of the Unstained says "You may not
have gotten what you wanted, but you surely got what you deserved."

Huya! <g>

Condolences anyway. At least now you know why I call it RBS...

--
"How can we explain adolescent behavior in adolescents, when we
can't explain adolescent behavior in our President?" Rush Limbaugh
--
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design
--

Bill Martin

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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Stephen & Michelle Cook wrote:
>
> How I cringe as I type this...
>
> We are building a new home and chose custom maple cabinets for our
> kitchen and family room (big open space). Unfinished, the cabinets
> were beautiful.
>
> We wanted a finish that was about the color of natural, unstained
> cherry. (we chose maple rather than cherry for the cabinets because
> of durability and cost)
>
Hey;
Yes, they look terrible don't they. I have tried my usual seal and stain
with oil products on maple and hated it. The best finish for me is an
extremely dilute custom blended aniline dye. But a lot of work for a
whole kitchen. If the colorant on your cabinets is bound into the
lacquer, you might get it out, but re-sanding the swirly grain to get
out the pigment is not going to go well. The final finish is
correct...lacquer is a good finish for cabinets. I do not ever see a
stain on maple that I like, unless I do it myself, and I think you
should use a clear lacquer. Your current cabinets should be painted and
put in another house. Also, and most importantly, approval by the
customer of a final finish sample is the standard practice.....which is
what professionals are expected to do, unless other arrangements are
made.
Bill

JR XR600

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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yep I agree the cabinet should be painted and put in another house
we have all maple cabnets in our house. They have a baked on
white finish almost looks like powdercoat.
The builder should be able to use the cabinets elsewhere.
get yours done right.
John


>hey;

chru...@nortel.ca

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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JR XR600 wrote:
>
> yep I agree the cabinet should be painted and put in another house
> we have all maple cabnets in our house. They have a baked on
> white finish almost looks like powdercoat.
> The builder should be able to use the cabinets elsewhere.
> get yours done right.
> John

John,

I as well would like white kitchen cabinets but all of the places here
in Ottawa sell MDF (particle board) cabinets. I asked why there are no
solid wood ones painted white and they responded that laquer over wood
tends to show cracks as the wood expands and contracts.

Any thoughts on this? I would like to know where you got your cabinets
from and I would give them a call to discuss!

thx.....

Bruce,

Duke of URLs

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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Sorry if this comes off as pissing in your Cheerios but you must be
told...

Did you receive a finish sample from the painter? If you did and it
was to your liking then you would have the right to have the cabinets
stripped and refinished or replaced and finished to your liking. By
the way, the general contractor will pick the least expensive method
if his contract with you is worth a damn.

Don't assume that the painter is using a finish that you deem
acceptable. Had you requested a certain finish things would be
different. Please keep in mind that having a house built does not
relieve you of anything and ignorance of the process is little or no
excuse.

If you didn't receive or give finish instruction and material
selections to the painter (or general contractor to pass along) it's
very likely you will have a fight on your hands.

As for having a competent finisher to do the work, you could have
probably gone this route for an upcharge and in the long run it would
have been worth it. I would definitely consider it for the balance of
this job.

By the way, don't even think about bringing the cabinet maker into it.
Finishing isn't in his scope of work nor is telling the painter how to
do his job. Oh and despite the G.C.'s promise of carte blanc you may
find carte blanc has a dollar limit. Don't Ask Me How
I Know This.

Good luck,

Keith Bohn

Mike Lazzari

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
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Well, it looks like you got what you paid for, which was maple along with all
of its idiosyncrasies. If you wanted cherry paying the 10%-15% premium would
have been cheaper than trying to magically transform maple into cherry. So I
guess the contractor learns from this.

If I were you I would agree to pay the difference and get a new set of cherry
cabinets.

Mike


> Stephen & Michelle Cook wrote:
>
> > We are building a new home and chose custom maple cabinets for our
> > kitchen and family room (big open space). Unfinished, the cabinets
> > were beautiful.
> >
> > We wanted a finish that was about the color of natural, unstained
> > cherry. (we chose maple rather than cherry for the cabinets because
> > of durability and cost)
>

Shafner

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
to
Mike Lazzari wrote:
>
> Well, it looks like you got what you paid for, which was maple along with all
> of its idiosyncrasies. If you wanted cherry paying the 10%-15% premium
> would have been cheaper than trying to magically transform maple into
> cherry. So I guess the contractor learns from this.
>
> If I were you I would agree to pay the difference and get a new set of cherry
> cabinets.

Did they get what they paid for? I did not read it that way. They did not pay
for lousy finishing from someone too inept to deal with woods which are known
to blotch. There is nothing wrong with coloring maple. Manufacturers do it all
the time -- as do cabinetmakers and finishing shops -- with great looking
results. As a finisher who can stain and finish maple without the ugly blotch,
I disagree very much with your assessments and your suggestion about maple vs. cherry.

The task was not to transform maple into cherry. They are two different woods.
And there is no magic creating a warm, nutural-looking cherry COLORING on
maple cabinets. No asked for faux bois. It's not like we are artists with
berets and goutees. But there is art involved. We work with color and are
concerned with sheen and texture. But there is nothing phony about what we do.
The fraud is from the all-in-one stain manufacturers who would have you think
that you can get the same results from one application of their mystery potion
that we can using dyes, wiping stains, glazes, and toners. Sometimes you can
approximate the looks that we get, and sometimes you can hit the look dead on.
But not always. And definately not with these cabinets that the Cook's are
complaining about.

The Moosehead Furniture Company from Munson, ME manufactures solid maple
furniture. It is produced in any of five different stains (actually thay are
"looks" because it is more of a coloring process than it is an out-of-the-can
stain, as is most professionally done finishing projects). They all look
great, and it depends on your tastes if you prefer natural or golden or cherry
or Colonial Maple.

The only question for anyone to ask at this early stage of research is: Did
the customer (Mr. and Mrs. Cook) see and approve and sign off on a color
sample from a wood chip?

> Stephen & Michelle Cook wrote:
>

> > How I cringe as I type this...
> >

> > We are building a new home and chose custom maple cabinets for our
> > kitchen and family room (big open space). Unfinished, the cabinets
> > were beautiful.
> >
> > We wanted a finish that was about the color of natural, unstained
> > cherry. (we chose maple rather than cherry for the cabinets because
> > of durability and cost)
> >

> > It's our builder's painter, not the cabinetmaker, that stains and
> > finishes all cabinetry for this builder. Most, if not all, of the
> > homes get red oak cabinets which seem to stain up just fine.
> >

> > Now stained and our cabinets look horrible!!! They are blotchy (yes,
> > we know this happens with maple, but figured the cabinetmaker would
> > have advised the painter how to avoid this), there are large, dark
> > brown blotches, black surface "burn" like areas of the grain, the end
> > grain of raised panels is hideously dark, etc.
> >

> > I know the product they used was Nitro lacquer stain from Kelly-Moore.
> >
> > I think it was the dark mahogany color. I can't believe they actually
> >
> > lacquered over this mess, thinking it was acceptable!!!
> >
> > Our superintendant does know of the problem and has ordered some
> > replacement doors for the blotches, and he did say we have "carte
> > blanche" to have anything unacceptable to us replaced. The problem
> > is, all of the cabinet faces, doors, and drawers are unacceptable.
> > Some are also maple veneer inside because we have glass doors or it's
> > where things like the TV go or open shelves are. I'm going to talk to
> >
> > the builder himself on Monday, and let him know that they are
> > completely unacceptable to us.
> >
> > We won't accept these cabinets in this condition. What we'd like to
> > know is what the proper prep, coloring medium (aniline dye? water or
> > alcohol based?)are for maple cabinets and what the best finish is for
> > kitchen cabinets? I believe they should have a polyurethane rather
> > than a lacquer, but want to make sure. We just don't want the second
> > set of cabinets (and who knows how big a delay that's going to cause
> > us) similarly ruined (these can't be saved, can they?)
> >
> > Clearly, having a painting contractor do the cabinet finishing could
> > be a mistake, too, but I don't think we have a say in that.
> >
> > Personal e-mail is mkc...@us.spamless.ibm.com (and remove "spamless"
> > for successful sending :-) )
> >
> > Many thanks for some good advice,

--
Daniel Shafner

shafner at earthlink dot net


npj

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
to
just to add my pennies worth. the firm i work in proviedes building
materials to many highend homes in minnesota lake country. for one of these
projects we weree asked to match the stain of the prefinished wood floor to
the custom built oak cabinets during this process we made at least 50 sample
panels of various stain concoctions in an effort to properly match floor to
unfinished cabinets. we finally succeeded with a three part blend of gel
stains thinned 40% with mineral spirits . it looks like crud in the bucket
but worked out great. getting to your maple. as you have no doubt noticed
nearly all maple cabinets one sees are finished in a clear poly or lacquer
in many ways because maple is like pine a fickle wood with the soft and
dense areas that take stain so differently. now to take an almost white
wood like maple and make it cherry is a great task. and may have been
possible with dyes in the hands of someone with skill and patience. you
might consider using poplar for the next set of cabinets. it machines well
and will stain up to look like cherry very well. just an idea. check it
ouit. Stephen & Michelle Cook <mkc...@us.spamless.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:37ad9a0c...@news.ccms.net...
> Michelle

Shafner

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Aug 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/9/99
to

There is a cabinet company (yes they have a web site), and they make very good
quality cabinets. Thier finishes are excellent. They are called DutchMade.
http://www.dutchmade.com/

Check them out and give them a call.

Lyle B. Harwood

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to
In article <37AF7C66...@earthlink.net>, Shafner
<insert.my.la...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>€ Did they get what they paid for? I did not read it that way.

Well said, Mr. Shafner!

The one good thing I saw in the original post was that the builder
reportedly gave them "Carte Blanche" to remedy the situation. It sounds
like it will end well, in spite of the inconvienence. While I realize
that it would have been much better to have properly finished cabinets
in the first place, but I'm glad to hear that there are (other)
builders who will take responsibility, and Make Things Right.

I take great comfort in that.

Sounds to me like a painting sub who should be an employee, and a
general who knows it, albeit too late.

Coloring maple is beyond me, but I have a kitchen full of beautifully
finished maple cabinets.

It can be done. I wish them the best of luck, although it sounds like
they have a true master at the helm, and won't need much luck.

--
Lyle B. Harwood
President
Phoenix Homes, Inc.
(206) 523-9500

Larry Jaques

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:12:43 -0400, Shafner
<insert.my.la...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Mike Lazzari wrote:
>>
>> Well, it looks like you got what you paid for, which was maple along with all
>> of its idiosyncrasies. If you wanted cherry paying the 10%-15% premium
>> would have been cheaper than trying to magically transform maple into
>> cherry. So I guess the contractor learns from this.

I hope everyone learns from this.
One should finish wood, not paint/color/fake it.


>> If I were you I would agree to pay the difference and get a new set of cherry
>> cabinets.
>

> There is nothing wrong with coloring maple.

Can you say "fruitwood look"? I knew you could.


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* laugh at themselves, for they * Typesetting - Web Design
* shall never cease to be amused * http://www.diversify.com
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Duke of URLs

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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Daniel Shafner wrote:
>Did they get what they paid for? I did not read it that way. They did not pay
>for lousy finishing from someone too inept to deal with woods which are known
>to blotch.

I had additional e-mail with Michelle after I posted my reply. I
was under the assumption that she had wandered blindly into
this situation. I was wrong. She does have a signed off finish
sample in addition to a picture of what the cabinets were to
look like.

Additionally, the builder appears to be going above and beyond
the call of duty having her involved in signing off for portions of
the work as they are done instead of waiting till the end for a walk
through and punch list. This was the second screw up on the painter's
part, proceeding with the top coat before getting the sign off on the
stain.

I'd say that Michelle has the poor painter, well, painted into a
corner...

Keith Bohn

Shafner

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:12:43 -0400, Shafner
> <insert.my.la...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Mike Lazzari wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, it looks like you got what you paid for, which was maple along with
> >> all of its idiosyncrasies. If you wanted cherry paying the 10%-15%
> >> premium would have been cheaper than trying to magically transform
> >> maple into cherry. So I guess the contractor learns from this.
>
> I hope everyone learns from this.
> One should finish wood, not paint/color/fake it.
>
> >> If I were you I would agree to pay the difference and get a new set of cherry
> >> cabinets.
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with coloring maple.
>
> Can you say "fruitwood look"? I knew you could.

I can say it. Fruitwood look. Painting, coloring, faking, staining,
decorating, etc. are all stages in some finishing processes. And putting on a
clearcoat over unstained wood is too. One should finish wood. I say again,
there is nothing wrong with coloring maple. And there is nothing wrong with
coloring any wood. If you do it right, then it can look good. How you like the
look is a matter of taste and opinion.

Saying that one should not paint or color or fake wood is like saying that one
should not play sloppy guitar. Yet Neil Young and Jimmy Page are quite
popular. One of these days I am going to stop practicing so that maybe I can
play sloppy guitar too. Until then, I am going to washcoat, stain, glaze, and
tone my way to good finishing, and practice my scales, licks, bends, and
vibrato to smooth playing.

I think that Larry Jaques and I respectfully disagree on the issue of coloring
wood (staining).

Larry, whose fruitwood stain do you like better? Sherwin-Williams's or
Mohawk's? I have both, but they have different working properties and the
Mohawk's stain is yellower (both the D404 and the L404). I think that the
SherWood line from SW is easier for me to control than Mohawk.

Walt Akers

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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In article <7onv6q$923$1...@news.ispn.net>,
<snip>

> you might consider using poplar for the next set of cabinets. it
> machines well and will stain up to look like cherry very well.

No disrespect, but poplar most certainly will NOT stain up to look
like cherry, unless you mean splotchy. If you think that the painters
had problems staining maple, let them get their hands on some poplar...
volumes have been written (in this forum) about the challenges that
must be overcome in staining poplar...

Walt

--
Walt Akers
Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility
ak...@jlab.org


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Stephen & Michelle Cook

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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Let's see...

No, we weren't trying to make cherry out of maple. We have a magazine clipping of some
maple cabinets that have a "terra cotta stain" on them, and that's the color we were going
for. The pages even listed the project coordinator, his company, and his location so
theoretically, someone could have called him to find out the exact recipe (I suppose I
could have done it, didn't think I would have had to). The coloration of the cabinets in
the photo is fairly uniform, with no blotching, and similar to that of natural, unfinished
cherry (not too dark, reddish tone). Since we liked that exact color appearance, we chose
maple with the intent of duplicating the look, we had the photos attached to our spec with
our signature and date, stating we liked it and wanted a stain sample to approve first.
Besides, down here in the central Texas, cherry is running a $50/linear cabinet foot
premium over red oak (maple was $30 more per lineal). There's more than 100 linear feet
of cabinet we're talking about!

The painter provided me with a piece of material which was exactly the color we wanted and
had no blotching whatsoever, so I approved it. The base color of the cabinets is exactly
right, it's the horrible, dark blotching that isn't what we expected nor what we want.
The cabinets almost look severely distressed, but we certainly didn't want or expect that
look.

I have both the original magazine photos and stain sample in my possession. The painter
called me this morning and said they've done "millions" of homes and the maple always
comes out blotchy. Hmmm.... I wonder if they ever asked themselves WHY the maple doesn't
look right? He also says that since the stain sample was a trim piece, it wasn't
representative of the cabinet wood. IMHO, a stain sample is a stain sample is a stain
sample. If you know from experience it won't be representative of your finished work,
then get a representative piece of the finished material approved.

I get to call the builder again this morning to discuss the situation. I'm not trying to
blame anyone, just trying to figure out how to get the finish we expected.

Michelle

Shafner wrote:

> Mike Lazzari wrote:
> >
> > Well, it looks like you got what you paid for, which was maple along with all
> > of its idiosyncrasies. If you wanted cherry paying the 10%-15% premium
> > would have been cheaper than trying to magically transform maple into
> > cherry. So I guess the contractor learns from this.
> >

> > If I were you I would agree to pay the difference and get a new set of cherry
> > cabinets.
>

> Did they get what they paid for? I did not read it that way. They did not pay
> for lousy finishing from someone too inept to deal with woods which are known

> to blotch. There is nothing wrong with coloring maple. Manufacturers do it all
> the time -- as do cabinetmakers and finishing shops -- with great looking
> results. As a finisher who can stain and finish maple without the ugly blotch,
> I disagree very much with your assessments and your suggestion about maple vs. cherry.
>
> The task was not to transform maple into cherry. They are two different woods.
> And there is no magic creating a warm, nutural-looking cherry COLORING on
> maple cabinets. No asked for faux bois.
>

BRADSTRUM

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to
>
>No disrespect, but poplar most certainly will NOT stain up to look
>like cherry, unless you mean splotchy. If you think that the painters
>had problems staining maple, let them get their hands on some poplar...
>volumes have been written (in this forum) about the challenges that
>must be overcome in staining poplar...
>
>Walt
>

Our kitchen cabinets are stained with no splotching to look like cherry.
They fooled us and our building inspector. The only thing that gave it away was
when they were scratched they were white underneath instead of red. Once we
figured out what they were we did notice that that the grain did not look
like cherry. I have noticed that all the poplar cabinets I have seen were
stained with dark colors. This may be to minimize blotching or the appearance
of blotching. Anyway we are refacing and after reading this thread I am going
to reconsider our first choice whioh was maple. We are refacing becuase we
don't want cabinets that are so dark. Cherry starts out not to dark but
can get darker after a few years.

Todd Bradstrum
dark over the years.

blu...@express-news.net

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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In article <37B02F0F...@us.spamless.ibm.com>, Stephen & Michelle Cook
<mkc...@us.spamless.ibm.com> wrote:


> I have both the original magazine photos and stain sample in my
possession. The painter
> called me this morning and said they've done "millions" of homes and the
maple always
> comes out blotchy. Hmmm.... I wonder if they ever asked themselves WHY
the maple doesn't
> look right? He also says that since the stain sample was a trim piece,
it wasn't
> representative of the cabinet wood. IMHO, a stain sample is a stain
sample is a stain
> sample. If you know from experience it won't be representative of your
finished work,
> then get a representative piece of the finished material approved.

Sounds to me like he just stepped in it big time. He admitted the sample
he gave you was not a sample as it should have been.

You mention you are in Central Texas. Email me back channel and I'll pass
along some things to watch out for in our fair State. Have learned the
hard way.

Gary

Larry Jaques

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:57:19 -0400, Shafner
<insert.my.la...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Saying that one should not paint or color or fake wood is like saying that one
>should not play sloppy guitar. Yet Neil Young and Jimmy Page are quite
>popular. One of these days I am going to stop practicing so that maybe I can
>play sloppy guitar too. Until then, I am going to washcoat, stain, glaze, and
>tone my way to good finishing, and practice my scales, licks, bends, and
>vibrato to smooth playing.

As a matter of preference (or taste), I'd rather not hear bad guitar,
by you, me, or anyone. "I'll take Acoustic Alchemy for 100, Alex."

And I'd not like to see poorly finished wood, or bad art, or hear
off-key singing. Or eat badly prepared food. Or hear bad poetry...


>I think that Larry Jaques and I respectfully disagree on the issue of coloring
>wood (staining).

Ayup, we agree to disagree. IMHO, paint/color/stain/faking is for
pukey ducks.


>Larry, whose fruitwood stain do you like better? Sherwin-Williams's or

"Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!" he screeched, in a knowing, Wally World kinda way.
"When's the bonfire?" ;)


Michelle: You really lucked out (were smart to start with) when you
got samples approved and the cabinets came out different. Any decent
contractor will make it right for you. And you've always got your
State Attorney General's office on your side. Good luck!


----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d e
http://www.diversify.com Graphic Design for Print & the Web
============================================================

Mike DiGiuro

unread,
Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to Stephen & Michelle Cook
I would never buy any wooden item like cabinets and have some other
contractor finish them. Painting contractors are not furniture
finishers, and cabinets are furniture.

Get an approved color sample from the cabinet builder, and make them
finish to the color standard. If they can't, you need to be working
with another cabinet maker.

I recently saw some custom maple cabinets, and they are spectacular.
They were finished close to natural, however the cabinet maker took the
time to get and match wood color.

In your case, ask for new cabinets, made and finished off site. Inspect
them before they are delivered to your house.
--
Mike DiGiuro
Flexible Materials Inc.
502 267 7717 Ext 203

Life is uncertain; eat your dessert first!

http:\\www.flexwood.com

Duke of URLs

unread,
Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
to
Michelle Cook wrote:
>The painter called me this morning and said they've done "millions" of homes
>and the maple always comes out blotchy. Hmmm.... I wonder if they ever asked
> themselves WHY the maple doesn't look right?

Time to play the teacher Michelle and print out the following Web
pages for the painter.

http://www.taunton.com/fw/features/techniques/14stainchrry.htm
http://www.taunton.com/fw/features/techniques/cherry/1.htm
http://www.taunton.com/fw/features/materials/16finishes.htm

Yes these articles are on staining cherry but it's the same procedure
for maple.

>He also says that since the stain sample was a trim piece, it wasn't
>representative of the cabinet wood.

He has a point when he's speaking of solid woods against veneers.
There will be something of a noticeable difference but it's not
glaring enough to reject the project.

The trim is solid wood, right? The doors are solid wood and parts are
molded, right? Following me on this one? His bike don't go forward
on that argument. Besides, didn't the finish sample have a terra
cotta (brick) color and the stain he used was a darker mahogany?

Yup, he's back peddling like a hamster on amphetamines.

>IMHO, a stain sample is a stain sample is a stain sample.

Yes and no but for the most part you are correct. Wood is a once
living thing and not all parts and pieces will behave the same *but*
it shouldn't be as noticeable as it sounds.

>If you know from experience it won't be representative of your finished work,
>then get a representative piece of the finished material approved.

Here in lies the rub. It is the workman's obligation to make the
client aware of certain aspects of the process and their outcome. If
he knew he couldn't match the sample *almost dead on* he only had to
tell you. I think the problem lies elsewhere. What did Deep Throat
say, "Follow the money"? Follow the money and you *might* find some
cub painter with a stain rag and nose ring.

>I get to call the builder again this morning to discuss the situation. I'm not trying to
>blame anyone, just trying to figure out how to get the finish we expected.

And you only want what you asked for and are paying for. You go girl!

Keith Bohn

PheelK

unread,
Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to
I'll take those old cabinets off your hands for you, I won't even charge a
disposal fee.
<G>

MY (for now) shelving-challenged garage thanks you in advance.

Phil

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