Help - brush strokes with polyurethane
Lindsay & May Jenkins
I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
L. Jenkins
lim...@hookup.net
Steve Glymph
polyurethane with mineral spirits(3:1). This made a more the urethane
smooth out better because is was more fluid. I have done this twice with
no problems. After that I started using a tung oil urethane mixture
to finish my projects. It require more coats to get a thick finish but
it is much more forgiving when it goes on.
--
My opinions are the result of a lifetime of events, most of which I had
no control over but for those rare moments in life when I made the
'wrong' choice and had "free will". (Or so I am determined to think.)
Regardless, none of my opinions were determined by my employer.
Bruce Miller
> Help !!!!
>
>
> I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
> surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
> obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
> after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
> smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
> pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
>
>
> L. Jenkins
> lim...@hookup.net
>
You want to flow it on the surface. Don't strive for thin coats.
paul royko
May Jenkins) wrote:
> Help !!!!
>
>
> I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
> surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
> obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin
finish and
> after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that
coat very
> smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a
quality
> pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
>
>
> L. Jenkins
> lim...@hookup.net
I assume you're using a solvent-based polyurethane rather than a
water-based one. If that's the case, try thinning it with a bit of Varsol
or paint thinner. You may have to apply one extra coat to get the build-up
you want, but the brush strokes should level out with a thinner finish.
Always brush in one direction, with the grain, rather than using a back
and forth motion. Work from one end to the other, pulling the urethane
from the wet area into the dry. Don't go back and try to smooth out the
surface after it starts to get tacky or you'll definitely have brush
strokes.
The water-based urethane I use (Flecto Diamond Elite) advises against
thinning. I don't have any experience with other brands.
--
paul royko
Toronto, Canada
ro...@astral.magic.ca
There is one art, no more, no less,
To do all things with artlessness.
Piet Hein
Mr. & Mrs. Richard Mirsberger
>
> Help !!!!
>
> I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
> surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
> obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
> after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
> smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
> pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
>
> L. Jenkins
> lim...@hookup.net
Two thoughts... First, it may be that you are applying the polyurethane using too
many strokes. The polyurethane tends to dry as it is being applied, and will tend to
hold brush strokes if "handled" too much. Second, you may find that you need to wait
longer than you have been before trying to sand it down... Our experience has been
that manufacturers' drying times do not provide optimal results... We were having the
same problem, and when we wound up busy with something else and returned to our
project a week later, we found that the results were much improved... We are hardly
experts, but we got a finish that was quite satisfactory after many attempts...
Waiting seemed to have a lot to do with it... Good luck :)
Rich and Brenda
RnBM...@concentric.net
Dave Marulli
marks and no cleanup. They come in various sizes and in 'multi-packs'.
Works for me!
walk...@apci.com
>
> > I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
> > surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
> > obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish
>
recommended using a cabinet scraper after applying varnish (which is what a polyurethane really is, in the sense that they're
both crosslinked vs. thermoplastic polymer films). This might be worth a try, but please check what he said first -- I'm not sure
my memory is correct on this one. Also, if you need instructions for preparing the cabinet scraper, they're in the same volume.
Tom Tarnowski
> >
> >I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
> >surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
> >after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
> > smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
> >pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
> >
> >
> >L. Jenkins
> >lim...@hookup.net
> >
>
On the recommendations of the Dec. 95 Fine Woodworking, I recently used General Finishes' EF
polyurethane to finish a stained cherry sofa table and an end table. Even with foam brush, I still had
small "brush" marks on the first table, and did a lot of sanding between coats. After reading the
directions (before finishing the second table), I decided perhaps my 60F basement wasn't the ideal
environment. Next time around, I heated the basement to a balmy 77 and the polyurethane levelled out
really nicely. I am still considering a HVLP conversion gun, however.
Tom Tarnowski
tomn...@rust.net
Chilly Willie
: Help !!!!
: I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
: surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
: obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
: after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
: smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
: pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
I had the same problem, even with a real expensive china bristle
brush, but found I got much smoother results with a cheap
foam brush. I have found that not all cheap foam brushes are
equal, though. Some seem to have a more "dense" composition
than others, or something, but whatever it is it makes a difference,
so I'd recommend getting several different types and testing them.
It also helps to start at one end and spread the urethane in one
direction only, with the grain. Also, if it goes on too thin it will
start drying before it has a chance to flow out. I put it on fairly
thick and make sure I catch the edge drips, and I get a
real smooth finish. I'm still saving up for a sprayer, though.
-keith
Steve Baker
>> "Mr. & Mrs. Richard Mirsberger" <RnBM...@concentric.net> writes:
>>
>> > I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
>> > surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
>> > obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish
>>
>I'm not an expert on this, but I was reading Tage Frid's book on woodworking (Vol. 2) a couple of nights ago, and I think he
>recommended using a cabinet scraper after applying varnish (which is what a polyurethane really is, in the sense that they're
>both crosslinked vs. thermoplastic polymer films). This might be worth a try, but please check what he said first -- I'm not sure
>my memory is correct on this one. Also, if you need instructions for preparing the cabinet scraper, they're in the same volume.
I always thought varnish was the stuff on furniture that was susceptible
to water stains. Poly is pretty much impervious to water stains. I'm
scratching my head.
Steve Baker
Pat Germain
using a natural bristle brush. I followed directions from an article
in American Woodworker. I think what helped the most was quickly going
over the surface with just the tip of the brush. If it's the right
type of brush (one with "split-ends" type bristles) it will smooth out
the brush strokes. It works even better than foam brushes. I think
the AWW article was April '95, "Varnishes" but I can check if you
like.
Karl Chwe
> I had the same problem, even with a real expensive china
> bristle brush, but found I got much smoother results with a cheap
> foam brush. I have found that not all cheap foam brushes are
> equal, though. Some seem to have a more "dense" composition
> than others, or something, but whatever it is it makes a difference,
> so I'd recommend getting several different types and testing them.
A foam brush works for me. I have noticed differences between foam brushes
also. The ones with smaller holes and a rubberier feel work best, though
they don't last as long. One thing to watch out for is pressing the tip
of the brush into the work. The brush will create bubbles like a sponge
squeezed in soapy water, which you will have to brush out.
It also helps to start at one end and spread the urethane in one
> direction only, with the grain. Also, if it goes on too thin it will
> start drying before it has a chance to flow out. I put it on fairly
> thick and make sure I catch the edge drips, and I get a
> real smooth finish. I'm still saving up for a sprayer, though.
I used to have lots of problems until I read somewhere that you shouldn't
brush the surface over and over. Just brush the varnish on, not too thick
but not so thin that it begins drying immediately, carefully so that you
don't overlap strokes. When you have wetted a workable surface, go back
over the surface in one direction with just the tip of the brush to pull
out the bubbles, etc. Then don't touch it again. Most good varnishes will
pull flat. If you touch it after even the slightest film has formed, you
will either have to wipe it all off, or sand it smooth after it dries.
It actually takes a good bit of concentration. I kind of see varnishing one
section like a complex athletic task, like serving a tennis ball. Take a
breath, rehearse it mentally, then do it, carefully, yet with conviction.
Become one with your brush. Etc. Etc.
Karl
Chris Wolf
> I always thought varnish was the stuff on furniture that was susceptible
>to water stains. Poly is pretty much impervious to water stains. I'm
>scratching my head.
That is shellac you're thinking of. It uses alcohol as its solvent.
Polyurethane and varnish use mineral spirits.
Darklandz
>In Article <4iikt4$o...@nic.ott.hookup.net> "lim...@hookup.net (Lindsay & May Jenkins)" says:
>> Help !!!!
>>
>>
>> I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
>> surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
>> obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
>> after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
>> smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
>> pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
>>
>>
>> L. Jenkins
>> lim...@hookup.net
>>
>My advice - use a foam "brush" and apply liberally without brushing it out.
>You want to flow it on the surface. Don't strive for thin coats.
I have had more luck with thinning the polyurethane before I brush it
on. Thin it however the label says.
A foam brush will help a little but if it is thinned properly a
regular brush will also work.
Steve Turadek
for oil-based finishes.
I'm a little fuzzy about the terminology here. "polyurethane" just refers
to the resin in the finish, but the stuff Lindsay&May are using might be
water- or oil-based, no? though in everyday usage, at least in my area of
the country, "poly" generally means a water-based thang...
it's nice that everyone's pointing out a problem with the brush, but no
one's pointed out a problem with the finish itself. of all the choices
available, isn't polyurethane the 1) hardest to apply, 2) fussiest about
the weather, 3) least satisfying in appearence, 4) somewhat less durable
than many of the alternatives?
I suppose I'm not being very helpful here. I guess what I'm trying to say
is that after having many experiences like the one described below, I've
just given up on the stuff. When I need a hard, durable, "chemical"
coating I use a 2-part catalyzed lacquer (okay, you can't brush this stuff
on, at least my brother the coatings salesman says you can't.) when I want
maximum appearance, I use shellac. After a lot of reading lately, I'm
also inclinded to start experimenting with varnishes, thus salvaging some
of the drug-induced chemistry experience of my younger days.
In article <315ed335...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
Dark...@Middle.Earth.net (Darklandz) wrote:
--
tur...@cisco.com- personal opinions not my employer's -408-526-7058
Larry Jaques
>I used to have lots of problems until I read somewhere that you shouldn't
>brush the surface over and over. Just brush the varnish on, not too thick
>but not so thin that it begins drying immediately, carefully so that you
>don't overlap strokes. When you have wetted a workable surface, go back
>over the surface in one direction with just the tip of the brush to pull
>out the bubbles, etc. Then don't touch it again. Most good varnishes will
>pull flat. If you touch it after even the slightest film has formed, you
>will either have to wipe it all off, or sand it smooth after it dries.
I've always used a good, tapered polyester brush and not had any
bubbling or leveling problem from brushing back-and-forth over the
same area. I lay it down fairly thick and thin it via brushing,
usually in the cool of the morning so it doesn't dry too fast on me.
I've never even _tried_ a foam brush!
>It actually takes a good bit of concentration. I kind of see varnishing one
>section like a complex athletic task, like serving a tennis ball. Take a
>breath, rehearse it mentally, then do it, carefully, yet with conviction.
>Become one with your brush. Etc. Etc.
Ahh, yes, Grasshopper, you have noticed that varnishing is one of the
carefully guarded Zen arts. Enjoy!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
give me The Luxuries Of Life * Larry Jaques
i can live without the necessities * lja...@diversify.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Webb
>blmi...@msu.edu (Bruce Miller) wrote:
>>In Article <4iikt4$o...@nic.ott.hookup.net> "lim...@hookup.net (Lindsay & May Jenkins)" says:
>>> Help !!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> I am new to this and have sanded a table top (rock maple) and have applied a
>>> surface stain. After sanding until the surface is like glass, I am unable to
>>> obtain a finish without brush strokes. The polyurethane is a satin finish and
>>> after the first thin coat, many strokes were visible. I sanded that coat very
>>> smooth and applied a second coat with the same results. I am using a quality
>>> pure bristle brush. Ant suggestions? Thanks
A commercial artist friend of mine passed this trick on to me and I
found that it works with almost any paint that I have tried.
Get a plate warmer. (low wattage warmer that one puts food on at a
banquet to keep it warm during the meal) Put the paint can on the
warmer for about 20 minutes (quart size can) before painting. Brush
the paint on always brushing toward the areas just painted so that it
is not thinned out too much.
The heated paint flows much better than "cold" paint and brush marks
are never a problem.
nann...@gmail.com
-MIKE-
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Scott Lurndal
>Hi I'm just trying to figure out how to remove the brush Strokes in differe=
>nt areas on my hardwood floor from the water based polyurethane on my hardw=
>ood floor. The Finish has a lot of brush Strokes and I would like to redo i=
Leon
> Hi I'm just trying to figure out how to remove the brush Strokes in different areas on my hardwood floor from the water based polyurethane on my hardwood floor. The Finish has a lot of brush Strokes and I would like to redo it and have a smooth look what do I do?
>
sarah...@gmail.com
Frank McVey
Dispose of the mix-soaked rags safely, since they can spontaneously combust, given the right conditions.
It's a fairly good rule when you're applying most finishes - use a number of thin coats, rather than one thick one. This method is pretty foolproof, and it doesn't take long to apply a coat. You need patience between coats though, and it takes around 5-6 coats if you need a hard-wearing surface like a table top. If you don't like the glass-like finish (it doesn't suit country-style furniture), then cut back your final coat with 0000 steel wool and apply a coat of good wax polish.
HTH.