snowboarding with a sail
Hans Erling Torkildsen; Fys H97
Anyone tried to connect a windsurfingsail to a snowboard.
In case, how and where do you attach the sail.
How must the snow be like, icy ,soft etc..
How much wind did you need?
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|Hans Erling Torkildsen@ |
|Rom8356, Sogn std.by |Unik |
|0858 Oslo, Norway |Rom 413 |
|tlf 22 18 87 27 |tlf 64844413|
|----------------------------------|
Ulver Pedersen_Denmark
I have just got a postcard from my brother. Its from Val Thorens, and there
you see a person using a wavesail on a monoski. Its just based in front of
the monoski. I cant see its possible to do so on a snowboard, unless you
only want to sail one way. But i have myself made a "Snowsurfer" that works
fine on flat land, both icy and soft snow. And its possible to make jibes.
You take two slalom skiis and mount them under a hard plate with the size
of a wavebord, just without all in front of the mastbase. You mount the
skiis in this way:
________
/ \
Seen from the front or end. The angle have to be much lower than the this,
i think approx. 45 degrees. It depends on how you want your snowsurfer to
bee. A fast one or a jibe board. Just like with windsurfboards. The idea is
that when you put your weight to the right side of the board the ski under
you will begin to work as skiis do and the whole board will turn right. You
will be surprised how well it works. You might find more detailed
descriptions for this type of snowsurfers as a have seen more of them here
in DK.
Ulver
Hans Erling Torkildsen; Fys H97 <ha...@ask.unik.no> skrev i artiklen
<6an0gh$g...@nntp.nta.no>...
Paul Fernquist
In article <6an0gh$g...@nntp.nta.no>,
Hans Erling Torkildsen; Fys H97 <ha...@ask.unik.no> wrote:
>Anyone tried to connect a windsurfingsail to a snowboard.
>In case, how and where do you attach the sail.
>How must the snow be like, icy ,soft etc..
>How much wind did you need?
>
>
>
>--
>------------------------------------
>|Hans Erling Torkildsen@ |
>|Rom8356, Sogn std.by |Unik |
>|0858 Oslo, Norway |Rom 413 |
>|tlf 22 18 87 27 |tlf 64844413|
>|----------------------------------|
>
I just took up snowboarding and the first thing they wanted to know
was which foot I put forward(left forward is regular stance and right is
goofy). Well, after windsurfing for 15 years and sailing out regular
stance and then gybing and coming back goofy stance, I had know clue
which stance I favored. I don't know how you could sail/snowboard
without switching stances after a gybe. Wouldn't you have to ride the board
backwards(fakie) and somehow move the sail to the back of the board?
Paul
clive
> I don't know how you could sail/snowboard
> without switching stances after a gybe. Wouldn't you
have to > ride the board
> backwards(fakie) and somehow move the sail to the
back of the > board?
of the board, you won't have to ride fakie.
By putting the mast base between your feet, you will
own a slow board, because the whole board base will be
in contact with the snow. To counteract this, put
your rig on a really short board to cut down on the
drag. But the shorter the board, the shorter the
rail, which might mean a loss of upwind ability.
Putting the mast base between your feet will eliminate
the problems of having your feet locked in, yet having
to switch your stance, but it might feel awkward, and
you will no longer have to gybe, which is a bad thing
if you were looking forward to ripping some lay-downs!
Clive
Charlie Escher
> Hans Erling Torkildsen; Fys H97 wrote:
> >Anyone tried to connect a windsurfingsail to a snowboard.
> >In case, how and where do you attach the sail.
> >How must the snow be like, icy ,soft etc..
> >How much wind did you need?
>
riders in the Molson commercial that showed that type of setup. I
remember him telling me it didn't work too well, especially compared to
Carl Meinberg's ski-sailing rig.One big problem with this idea is that
the sidecut of the board or skis tends to work against you.I know that
Carl uses downhill racing skis, but he told me that speed skis would be
even better, since they have less sidecut.There were some posts recently
concerning that rig that you might want to check out.
Clive wrote:
> If the mast base is between your feet, in the middle
> of the board, you won't have to ride fakie.
> By putting the mast base between your feet, you will
> own a slow board, because the whole board base will be
> in contact with the snow. To counteract this, put
> your rig on a really short board to cut down on the
> drag. But the shorter the board, the shorter the
> rail, which might mean a loss of upwind ability.
>
Clive, think about that again.Speed skates, speed skis, and speed event
snowboards all have one thing in common: they're all really long.The
friction coefficients for ice and snow are quite a bit different than
those for a planing hull; I'll leave the physics to one of the many
more-qualified engineer type sailors who frequent this group.I really
wish we had good ice sailing conditions around here, I used to sail DNs
and other iceboats as a kid when I lived in New England, and it was a
blast.
Good sailing to you all, liquid smoke at Rooster Rock was looking
almost tempting today, air temp 50, wind 50,water probably low 40s
though...it won't be long 'till I get suckered out at least once.
______________________________________________
Charlie Escher // Beautiful Bingen, Washington
______________________________________________
Joeyalbert
>By putting the mast base between your feet, you will
>own a slow board, because the whole board base will be
>in contact with the snow. To counteract this, put
>your rig on a really short board to cut down on the
>drag. But the shorter the board, the shorter the
>rail, which might mean a loss of upwind ability.
>the problems of having your feet locked in, yet having
>to switch your stance, but it might feel awkward, and
>you will no longer have to gybe, which is a bad thing
>if you were looking forward to ripping some lay-downs!
>Clive
>
>
Great to see more promotion of Snow/Ice sailing. I've never seen a snowboard
rig in action. I honestly can't imagine it working very well. If you have
made it work, I'd like to here more about it.
If you downhill ski, Carl Meimberg makes an attachment for skiis that allows
you to put a sail on it. He used it at last year's International Ice Sailing
race and, in my opinion, it worked very well for people who want to ski and
sail together. He can jibe and helitack it.
I must say, I don't understand your ideas that you would want a shorter board
for less surface contact. I strongly believe it is exactly the opposite on
snow (unless you happen to be using cross country 'grip' wax instead of glide
wax on your board). Look at the downhill ski racers, their skiis are longer,
not shorter.
The closest to a snow board that workds would be the Mono'ski designed by the
Russians. It is highly respected in the international snow/ice sailing
community, although only the Russians seem to use it. It appears to be a very
simple design as it is just a platform (you stand on) mounted on a single
skii. I am told, though, that it is much more difficult to make and sail than
it appears at first glance. It is, however, very fast and very efficient. To
tack or jibe though, they jump off and on again (not as big a problem on ice as
it would be in water and it doesn't seem to stop the Russian team from winning
races).
I have been using a Snowfer for three years and am very happy with it. It is
one of the few production boards out there. It works well in ALL conditions
(bare ice, deep snow, slush.....anything) and is blazingly fast due to it's
unique design of sailing on one edge/blade when on ice). It was also highly
regarded last year at the int'l snow/ice sailing races. You can get more info
on this board at www.snowfer.com.
Let's keep the dialogue on snow/ice sailing going!
Don't let the cold weather stop you from sailing. Just change boards!
Gleshna
>> >Anyone tried to connect a windsurfingsail to a snowboard.
at the front. It was a long board. I would suggest trying for the normal
windsurfing board distance from feet to base. Take off the boot bindinds and
put straps on it like a windsurf board. I have no idea how it would work.
An alternative might be to use a skating hand held kite.
>> >In case, how and where do you attach the sail.
>> >How must the snow be like, icy ,soft etc..
Some systems go on both snow and ice. Snow needs a flat surface and ice needs
a blade.
>> >How much wind did you need?
Snow needs more wind. Ice will work with 10 mph per my information.
If you build something that has a base for foot straps and the mast plus skiis
and blades on the bottom, you can ice/snow sail.
Luck,
Bob
>>
clive
> Great to see more promotion of Snow/Ice sailing. I've
never seen a snowboard
> rig in action. I honestly can't imagine it working very
well. If you have
> made it work, I'd like to here more about it.
setup, nor have I ever been on any sailing vehicle in the
winter. I would like to, but I enjoy a healthy mix of no
time, no money. Can't imagine it working it very well
either, but there are always sceptics before an idea comes
along. I guess we're afraid to put our asses on the line.
> I must say, I don't understand your ideas that you would
want a shorter board
> for less surface contact. I strongly believe it is
exactly the opposite on
> snow (unless you happen to be using cross country 'grip'
wax instead of glide
> wax on your board). Look at the downhill ski racers,
their skiis are longer,
> not shorter.
on snow. But the biggest reason downhill racers use longer
skiis is for more control in the turns. If you are blazing
down a hill and need to make a turn, 200 cm of edging is
going to make a better gouge, don't expect 160 to get you
through without major trouble. Skiis rely on some length
so there is more friction to melt as much snow under the
ski as possible so the rider is skiing on water, therefore
there is less drag. I guess this is why speed skates are
longer as well.
Anyway, just when I figured I was totally wrong, I thought
- snowboards are different to skiis - they are wider, so
less weight is focused on melting the snow directly, so
they ride on half melted snow, which means they are slower
than skiis. I assume this is what happening under there.
The answer would be to look for a long, thin snowboard to
put a rig on. There are plenty of racing snowboards to fit
this description.
Okay, just when I thought I had the answer, I remembered
that proper racing snowboards are omni-directional, which
is useless if you want to be able to sail in more than one
direction (feet locked, can't sail on other side, must sail
back and forth in same stance, see previous post). A
proper board will have to be twin-tip, a freestyle board
fits the description. Problem is freestyles are generally
short. Good luck finding a fast, long twin-tip.
Another thing I thought of - because of the sidecut on a
snowboard, and the fact you'd have to sail it upwind on the
rail, it could be difficult to get a good heading. A board
with straight rails would go upwind easily, but good luck
finding a board with no sidecut.
Anyway, I'm sure there is a possible alternative to fix the
problems of above,
or maybe we should all go out and buy snowfers.
Snowfers sound amazing - wish I had one, but they aren't
gonna cost less than a grand anytime soon, are they?
Clive
Joeyalbert
>or maybe we should all go out and buy snowfers.
>Snowfers sound amazing - wish I had one, but they aren't
>gonna cost less than a grand anytime soon, are they?
>Clive
The Snowfer is made in Canada and the way the Canadian dollar keeps falling vs
the US dollar, (down 5% in the last while) the Snowfer now is probably less
than a grand US (don't hold me to my math). Unfortunately for us Canadians, its
all the same price here and only more expensive to buy US products.
Joe