footstraps and injuries
Paul Braunbehrens
interesting info. For one, I'm probably too far in the straps. One
book suggested that only your toenail should protrude from the strap.
Seems awfully little, but I'm willing to give it a try.
Another site suggested that in windsurfing the average is about 1
injury in about 1000 sailing days. If we assume an average of 3 hours
of sailing, that's one injury every 3000 hours. Now let's say that at
the most 1 in 500 injuries is fatal, and we end up with a fatality rate
of about 1 in 1 500 000.
That would make Windsurfing slightly less dangerous than passenger cars.
wtrplnet
"Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
wrote in message
news:050420051812248034%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
Are you an actuary?
Back to footstraps; your foot should be able to 'twist' out in a fall.
Putting it too far in will prevent that. Lots of variables. Type of strap,
how wide the mounting points of the strap. If you wear booties or not.
Only you can decide what's right for your situation.
Paul Braunbehrens
<jerry...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
> wrote in message
> news:050420051812248034%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
> > I've been reading up on injuries and footstraps and found some
> > interesting info. For one, I'm probably too far in the straps. One
> > book suggested that only your toenail should protrude from the strap.
> > Seems awfully little, but I'm willing to give it a try.
> >
> > Another site suggested that in windsurfing the average is about 1
> > injury in about 1000 sailing days. If we assume an average of 3 hours
> > of sailing, that's one injury every 3000 hours. Now let's say that at
> > the most 1 in 500 injuries is fatal, and we end up with a fatality rate
> > of about 1 in 1 500 000.
> >
> > That would make Windsurfing slightly less dangerous than passenger cars.
>
> Are you an actuary?
No, but I like to have some idea of what kind of risk I'm taking when
engaging in sports.
>
> Back to footstraps; your foot should be able to 'twist' out in a fall.
> Putting it too far in will prevent that. Lots of variables. Type of strap,
> how wide the mounting points of the strap. If you wear booties or not.
> Only you can decide what's right for your situation.
>
>
Thanks, I'll take a look. I still think a break away system would be
nice. I've been trying to come up with a simple one that would be easy
to implement, maybe a plastic bolt or a washer held down by a zip tie.
The downside is that these would need to be inspected frequently and
swapped out when they start to wear. Also, I'm not sure how much force
should cause the connection to break. I wouldn't want it to come off
everytime I chop hop.
JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMilk
"wtrplnet" <jerry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ueCdnb_0ppv...@comcast.com...
Certainly I am no pro, but, I like the feel of my foot way into the
straps, for one, my heels would drag in the water on my board if I only
stuck just the front of my foot in, and for two, with the strap tight on
my foot resting up closer to my ankle, its a real secure feeling that you
get that inspires confidence. I have noticed the potential for a damaging
wipe out though, as already twice this year I have spun out and landed hard
with my foot still stuck in the strap, (wearing booties both times, don't
remember the same prob last summer in bare feet) I guess is a preference
thing but, certainly, the recommendation on how far to put your foot in the
strap is good food for thought.
Dave
moref...@hotmail.com
entire little toe should be just sticking out the far side of the
strap. That would def. seem to be a good compromise - enough to
anchor your foot to the board but not so much you will get caught.
Ski-type mechanical releases would be nice but I can't see anyone
taking on the liability given the inability to provide standard
lubrication in a salt water environment.
Paul Braunbehrens
In article <1112757269....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
wee...@aol.com
"Ghost Trees" off Peeble Beach, CA. when his foot got stuck in the foot
strap on a wipeout.
wsurfn
There was a product produced by someone with your passionate concerns.
It was called Footsavers. The company went out of buisness and/or sold
the patent to Chinook, I think.
Having just mostly recovered from my broken ankle, and seeing all the
pros that go down with such injuries (Baker,Swift,....), I believe we
will get a breakthough in design sometime in the next decade. For now,
the debate will continue on strap design, width and tension, booties or
not. I am not sure what the answer is, but I now make sure my foot can
twist out. Now, will it during the moment of impact.....
ssnod...@foxrothschild.com
I can put my foot in pretty far for control but in a wipe out it easily
twists out. I broke an ankle, but at that time I was out of the
straps. I cought my ankle between the mast and the board.
Craig (gsogh) Goudie
when you're warp 6 in a bump run?
There's definitely more risk with your feet
deeper in the straps, and a lot more control ( especially airborne) with
your feet
deep in the straps. If you want to protect your ankles, take the straps off
your board.
I ride them relatively deep, I know there's more risk, but it improves the
quality
of my rides both on and off the water. Currently my straps ride over the
ball of my foot,
with all my toes sticking through the other side. Breaking an ankle is a
possibility,
but board attitude control when airborne (and to a certain extent when on
the water)
is immensely improved.
YRQMV
-Craig
Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
--
Craig (Go Short or Go Home!) Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
RRD 298, RRD TT and Cross M 8'2" with
Sailworks/Naish Sails and Rec Composites Fins
Sailing the Gorge on my: 9'1" RRD Freeride,
8'3" Logosz Squish, 8'0" Hitech IBM with
Sailworks/Northwave Sails and Curtis Fins
Dan Weiss
-Dan
"wsurfn" <MPlu...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1112790682....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
mike
I broke two metatarsals in my left foot when my foot got stuck in the
strap during a catapult. I was wearing booties and the strap was
probably adjusted a little too big (and I was WAY overpowered on a 3.7
w/ gusts over 50 -October 15,2003 for any of the east coasters who
remember the day !).
In contrast, I had the reverse problem during a recent Hatteras trip.
I had my back foot pull out of the strap in a jump and the landing
tweaked my knee on the front leg, which remained in the strap. No
booties in this incident.
So, I think you've got to find that "just right" spot for strap
adjustment. Additionally, you can probably get your foot in deeper and
remain safe, if not wearing booties.
-Mike
BTW, I think your fatality rate may be a bit exaggerated. My guess
would be that fatalities account for much less than 1 in 500
windsurfing injuries, probably closer to 1 in 5000 (just guessing, of
course).
jeff feehan
> I've been reading up on injuries and footstraps and found some
> interesting info. For one, I'm probably too far in the straps. One
> book suggested that only your toenail should protrude from the strap.
> Seems awfully little, but I'm willing to give it a try.
>
> Another site suggested that in windsurfing the average is about 1
> injury in about 1000 sailing days. If we assume an average of 3 hours
> of sailing, that's one injury every 3000 hours. Now let's say that at
> the most 1 in 500 injuries is fatal,
i guess it depends on how you define injury, but 1 in 500 seems
extremely high to me. i could imagine that there are 500 injuries
every year or two in the gorge.
it's not clear that there have ever been more than a few windsurfing
fatalities realted to injuries - and that's over a period of 35 years
or so.
the two biggest categories seem to be people who die while windsurfing
- heart attack, stroke etc., and people who die of exposure.
i've heard of a fatal fin injury, maybe one or two fatal knocks on the
head, and some collisions (with power boats and maybe with other
windsurfers) that have been fatal.
i am constantly hearing from my sit-down sailor friends that windsurfing
is pretty dangerous, and only for those who are a little reckless. i try
to correct them, but i don't think i am very successful. i am pretty
sure that sit-down sailing is quite a bit more dangerous: people are
killed every year just in the usa- man overboard fatalities are pretty
common, and it seems that at least every year a few people are killed
when they sail up on rocks or collide with other boats. i sailed with
a guy who was killed by being hit in the head with the boom.
jeff feehan
Dan Weiss
suppositions based on undefined terms credited to unreliable data.
Even if that "other site" contained a perfectly correct injury to sailing
day ratio, what qualifies an injury? A toe nicked on a rock, a scraped
ankle, how about a callous tearing away or a blister forming? Experience
shows a much higher frequency of occurrence with these kinds of things.
More like 1:10.
Perhaps this "other site" must restrict their definition to injuries of much
greater sigificance: musculo-skeletal, head trauma, impalement, you know.
But 1:1000 sounds inconsistent with what we see. Hey, whatever, maybe it is
correct: I've windsurfed for a very long time and suffered only a broken
foot when I struck the leading edge of a fin when jumping. Perhaps my one
injury isn't statistically helpful. Perhaps the average really is 1:1000.
The real twist is plugging in the fatality. "[L]et's assume 1:500
fatality?" Where'd that magic come from? You can't use fatality averages
from outside groups of data and then plug those averages into a specific
activity with paradigms unconnected to the original datum. That begs the
question; it takes as assumes that which it tries to determine. For
example, if you employ a death to hours of activity ratio, you better make
sure that automobile usage is NOT influencing that data if you plan to
compare your ratio to automobile usage ratios. In your case, why do you
assume 1:500 injury to fataility rate? Where does this originate? Would
you be as comfortable assuming at most a 1:1,000,000 rate? Something in
between?
We know that windsurfing is not the cause of very many deaths. Maybe Arnaud
DeRosnay. He might be the only one. Other people die while windsurfing but
was windsurfing the activity without which they would not have died? Now we
can include drownings, getting struck by a motor boat, hit my lighting, that
sort of thing, but we can't include heart attacks, strokes, old age etc.
How many people have died under these circumstances? I've only heard of a
few -perhaps only 3.
-Dan
"Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
wrote in message
news:050420051812248034%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
Ellen Faller
windsurfing. Both at the US Sailing meeting in Newport last weekend, and
earlier at the National Sailing Program Symposium in Miami in January,
the new insurance program for windsurfing schools was being announced.
There had been a survey of insurance claims for windsurfing schools
covering I think it was a 20 yr period (someone may recall more
accurately), and there had been NO claims. Okay, that was just schools.
But again, there are are VERY few injuries compared to skiing,
snowboarding, skate boarding, etc. which I'll bet these same people
don't regard as "reckless".
Ellen
Isobars
severe childhood sprains, and very frequent crashes, and I at least try
every windstorm the Gorge -- even sometimes windier New Mexico -- can throw
at us outside the dead of winter. I've never yet had a footstrap injury,
partly because of these factors:
1. I don't do booties. The damn things hang up in or out of the straps too
often, threatening my ankles and knees.
2. Toenails showing only. I'll leave it to the pros, both skiing and WSing,
to weld their toys to their feet to achieve maximum control at the expense
of their joints. Deep footstrap insertion feels realy solid and provides
superior control, but I doubt many people who have had severe ankle injuries
remain willing to try it.
3. When I feel a hung ankle protesting in a crash, I tense up to add muscle
power so the ligaments aren't taking all the stress. If that entails taking
the board with me in a catapult, so be it. That's easy with a sinker,
tougher with a 12' Equipe, but it works.
4. My boards don't have edges. I don't ever remember catching a rail when
sliding sideways on any board I've owned. I can't say the same for some race
boards I've tested. I refused to test that concave-railed, unforgiving,
chop-snagging, early-90s AHD after one reach, fearing for my ankles' lives.
I've seen fins gut fish; that board (CAUTION: hyperbole alert) FILLETED 'em.
5. I pad the heck out of my decks, which helps protect the ankles (and
knees) from accumulated shock damage.
6. When the top of my left arch began to incur a frequent, then chronic,
bloody gouge from too many port jumps driving it into its front strap, I
switched to kiteboard straps, which have a more gradual entry edge. Problem
solved, and they adjust much more easily than most WS straps.
7. When one of my foots comes out of its strap in mid-air, I don't even try
to get it back in or keep on sailin'. I stick the foot on the deck wherever
it needs to be to control the landing, get the board back on the water, and
instantly get the other foot out of its strap as I unsheet and sink gently
and in control. I'd infinitely rather lose a jump and save a joint than
impress any observers. I sail for MY pleasure, not theirs, and a lone
strapped foot in an uncontrolled situation is an engraved invitation to a
medical disaster; ask Bart!
8. I do curls with my feet to keep 'em strong. It's easy, for example, to
hang from my toes from a bar or tree limb. Muscles help splint joints and
reinforce ligaments.
9. I run my footstrap entry screw spacing "wide of snug", so my feet don't
get locked in if they get twisted sideways a bit. Lateral tightness and
booties are one of my surest ways to get hung up.
10. It ain't just straps that threaten our feet. I lost a summer to a
recurrent spiral toe fracture that threatened to leave permanent injury if I
didn't forget sports that season. Got it from accidentally kicking the
u-joint. Now it's volcano pads on every universal.
Mike \m/
Isobars
"Urban Idiots Without Responsible Parents Bashing Their Brains Out on
Concrete and Steel With Zero Regard for the Laws of Physics or the Fact That
They May Need to Earn a Living, Maybe Even WALK, Some Day".
Mike \m/
"Ellen Faller" <eleanor...@yale.edu> wrote .
> there are are VERY few injuries compared to . . . skate boarding . . .
> which I'll bet . . . people don't regard as "reckless".
Alan
"Isobars" <notgonn...@not.today> wrote in message
news:DKU4e.6677$DZ7....@fe07.lga...
> These people must not watch the TV shows collectively and accurately
named,
> "Urban Idiots Without Responsible Parents Bashing Their Brains Out on
> Concrete and Steel With Zero Regard for the Laws of Physics or the Fact
That
> They May Need to Earn a Living, Maybe Even WALK, Some Day".
>
> Mike \m/
Let alone those idiots ripping up environmentally sensitive areas so they
can brag later on in life about how many bones they broke in their glory
days.
Alan
Craig (gsogh) Goudie
Isobars wrote:
> I sail with abandon, ineptitude, often too much power, weak ankles from
> severe childhood sprains, and very frequent crashes, and I at least try
> every windstorm the Gorge -- even sometimes windier New Mexico
You forgot a one sided vestibular system dude ;*)
You're lucky you can even walk, ya old geezer ;*) ;*)
I turn 50 next year, remember when you turned 50 ;*) ;*) ;*)
> [snip]
>
> 7. [snip] I sail for MY pleasure, not theirs, and a lone
> strapped foot in an uncontrolled situation is an engraved invitation to a
> medical disaster; ask Bart!
I'm in total agreement about a one footer being perilous to ankles, but I got
the impression
from Bart (2 seasons ago) that his injury was caused by a random piece of chop,
and a total
fluke, not something that could be avoided with appropriate strapping. Of
course my memory
might have been addled by a few beers at the time, but if yur gonna drop names
..................................
[snip]
> Mike \m/
Isobars
Mike \m/
"Alan" <alannc44@{nospam}ix.netcom.com> wrote
>
>
> "Isobars" <notgonn...@not.today> wrote in
Isobars
nasty chop, letting his board exert all its rotational force (front edge
caught, maybe?) about one ankle rather than the widely-spaced, much stronger
triangle provided by two strapped feet. This allowed the ankle to rotate 180
degrees about the shin, causing some particularly nasty breaks. It's why I
don't land jumps in a normal manner after a foot comes out.
And I CAN'T walk in the dark, or carrying an object that blocks my view of
terra firma.
If iW's wind archives went back to '93, I might be able to figure out where
I was when I turned 50.
Mike \m/
"Craig (gsogh) Goudie" <gor...@netzero.net> wrote ...
Glenn Woodell
I can sail. I can push with the right foot but I cannot lift or pull
which makes it tough for me to handle wicked chop. I can do it but I
get really tense and super careful, ready to dismount at a
microsecond's notice.
Because of this I typically have my left foot pretty tight in the
strap. Not very deep but tight. I can still get out quite easily and
so far have never gotten stuck in a strap that I wanted to get out of.
With the one foot I have to keep a tight connection to the board or
it's like sailing with no straps at all.
The ankle is the one thing that is on my mind constantly. So far so
good.
Glenn
Dan Weiss
big, bordering on huge. Perhaps the difference in mass explains a bit of
his injury? Besides, you are quite used to sailing one-footed. The rest of
us might indeed end up with Bart-like injury when you might not.
Anyway, I worked with Bart for two seasons but haven't seen him in about 5
years. I didn't know he had such an accident. Does anybody know how his
recovery went?
-Dan
"Glenn Woodell" <letsrig@!!cox!!.net> wrote in message
news:kpj851tsqmtuk5ngc...@4ax.com...
(Pete Cresswell)
> For one, I'm probably too far in the straps.
I go *really* deep in the straps so the heels of my size 15's don't drag in the
water as much.
My workaround has been breakaway straps. Formerly made by Foot-Savers,
purportedly bought out by one of the major marketers a couple years back - but I
haven't seen anything of them since.
Tried a few Googles, nothing. Anybody know? Mine are getting kind of ratty.
--
PeteCresswell
Isobars
Stick some tape or a spare length of Velcro over part of the strap's Velcro
teeth to weaken its grip. Experiment 'til you find an acceptable breakaway
strength. Crude, but if there are no altenatives . . .
Mike \m/
"(Pete Cresswell)" <x...@y.z.invalid> wrote >
Paul Braunbehrens
wsurfn <MPlu...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
I believe we
> will get a breakthough in design sometime in the next decade.
Yeah, but last season I broke a toe (barefoot) and this season my foot
(booties). I'm not going to wait to break 10 more things before they
come out with a product. I've heard that the product (footsavers)
worked great, but was shunned because advertisers feared that it would
turn people off of windsurfing.
> For now,
> the debate will continue on strap design, width and tension, booties or
> not. I am not sure what the answer is, but I now make sure my foot can
> twist out. Now, will it during the moment of impact.....
>
That is my concern as well. I suppose the less foot is in the strap
the better.
Paul Braunbehrens
suspect both the 1:1000 injury and the 1:500, the latter being just a
guess on my part. I suppose it was just a try on my part to quantify
something for which there is insufficient data. Quite possibly the
1:1000 number does not count all injuries. Certainly, if minor
injuries are considered, I probably have some minor bruise every few
hours of windsurfing at least. I assumed that what was meant was
injuries requiring some form of treatment. The 1 in 500 number was
simply a WAG, based on the number of fatalities I have heard of. You
are right that it was a bit of putting the cart before the horse, but I
was interested in coming up with a number that could be compared to the
other numbers I had posted.
Perhaps more revealing is the information posted by others that no
claims had been filed against any of the schools.
In any case, we can all assume I suppose that windsurfing is in fact
quite safe, at least in terms of risk of death, though perhaps not in
terms of broken feet.
In article <G8udnbReUN8...@comcast.com>, Dan Weiss
Brian Sangeorzan
Cort Larned had a set of these years ago. They were made of nylon (white)
as I recall. Very simple idea. If you've got a set of those, they could be
easily replicated by anyone with a mill.
Brian
"(Pete Cresswell)" <x...@y.z.invalid> wrote in message
news:hsq851lp2lkuf1gqp...@4ax.com...
(Pete Cresswell)
>Stick some tape or a spare length of Velcro over part of the strap's Velcro
>teeth to weaken its grip. Experiment 'til you find an acceptable breakaway
>strength. Crude, but if there are no altenatives .
For the small amount of stress I put on straps, I'd expect that to work.
--
PeteCresswell
Dan Weiss
some similar catastrophe chimes in, naturally. Makes the solution a bit
thick for a while. Anyway, after 26 years of windsurfing I am happy to
report that besides the broken foot (maybe not even broken, but I'm pretty
sure) I sprained my ankle in the straps simply jibing. Like Bart, I stuffed
a rail, the board jammed hard and so did my ankle. No big deal,
fortunately. I also managed to tear a tendon in my shoulder when recovering
from a nearly blown jibe -but that was an old injury from high school that
finally said enough is enough.
Despite these hurts, I maintain windsurfing is one of the safest sports
around, particularly among those that offer so much adrenalin. No crashes
to the pavement, no slamming to the hardwood, no crashing into the end of a
vaulting horse. No accidental burns, no concussions or broken backs from
hitting the wall, no suffocating inside a snowy tomb. Just the occasional
very long swim and broken digit, plus very rare broken bones or shredded
joints.
-Dan
"Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
wrote in message
news:060420051653168481%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
Paul Braunbehrens
foot and said "windsurfing". I don't think we have any numbers on
that, but it stands to reason that a breakaway system for straps would
not hurt in any case.
In article <EdmdnQwIEKa...@comcast.com>, Dan Weiss
Paul Braunbehrens
no, it is not illegal to duplicate someone's invention for your own
use.
In article <ZLKdnfcfWY1...@wideopenwest.com>, Brian Sangeorzan
Florian Feuser /FFF/
> Suggestion brought to mind by my kitestraps:
> Stick some tape or a spare length of Velcro over part of the strap's
> Velcro teeth to weaken its grip. Experiment 'til you find an
> acceptable breakaway strength. Crude, but if there are no altenatives . . .
>
>
Tried that a while ago, but the remaining velcro would just sorta creep
and open slowly to let more foot into the strap.
I don't know the footsavers - how do they work?
I think releasing footstraps were the first commercial product of the
brand f2 - before boards, rigs and accessories.
For me, the concept doesn't work. If an anchor holds tight enough to be
useful can hurt you if you can't rotate out of the strap because it's
too narrow (or you're not supporting the foot during the wipe-out - see
Mike's earlier post).
florian /FFF/
Dan Weiss
or pressure, the pin would pull out through the opening between the jaws as
the plastic deformed. To reattach, just slide the pin through the jaws from
their side. Think of a toilet paper tube being the pin, and a slightly
larger paper towel tube with a slice down its length as the jaws. The pin
(toilet paper tube) is attached on one end to the strap. Pass the pin
through one end of the paper towel tube, and the strap through the
longitudinal slit. With enough pressure the pin will pass through the slit,
but remain locked for normal sailing.
With enough engineering, you could make something that is spring loaded and
adjustable, similar to the way clipless bicycle pedals operate. Seems to me
the Foot Savers might have been something like this.
-Dan
"Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
wrote in message
news:060420052004327467%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
bsinclair
loose. Well OK, loose back strap lets me get my foot over the center line,
and I've never tweaked my back foot.
Safer is probably a relative term. Guess I'd rather break my fore-foot than
my ankle.
bs
"Paul Braunbehrens" <baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com>
wrote in message
news:050420051812248034%baka...@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com...
LooseClu
spread'. Godzilla could not pull them strait out. They were also
adjustable to 'pop force'. Since I'm a lightweight, the softest setting
(pin size?) worked for me. I haven't had any stuck back foot problems since
I began using a wider set on the back strap (so I could twist my back foot
forward a bit while harness hanging). I found the Footsaver a bit
uncomfortable when my foot was pressed against the release but the only time
they let go was in a yard sale type wipe outs (my favorite 'freecrash'
move). I drilled the pin and ran a monofilm leash line to the pin- putting
them back together in waves with numb fingers guarantee you'll fumble that
2" x 1/4" pin. If the industry is too worried about profits maybe they
could slip these in as speed straps (needed due to higher speed)s. It makes
you wonder when you look at the responses to this thread and realize Chinook
is just sitting on a useful safety item. I'm sure their inventor (Andy?) is
the most annoyed among all at Chinook's lack of action. If its not Chinook,
I apologize to them- but whoever is withholding these from the market needs
some bashing.
Roy
(Pete Cresswell)
>I don't know the footsavers - how do they work?
A pin in a cylinder that has a groove in it. Pull the pin sideways, the
'cylinder' opens up at the groove, releasing the pin.
--
PeteCresswell
windsurf17
couple of years ago. See windsurfingradio.com, scroll almost to the
bottom: "Episode Three / 2002-09-13" Footstrap safety: Inventer Andy
Sewell talks about his Footsaver.
Hans
Craig (gsogh) Goudie
chicks),
and major adrenaline. It could be the perfect sport. Of course, I know a lot of Kite
boarders
that claim it's not dangerous (or as dangerous as you make it), much like
windsurfing.
-Craig
Dan Weiss wrote:
> [snip]
--
Dan Weiss
that a trip to the beach meant different things to my date. As did going
to breakfast on a Saturday morning at an ocean side SoCal restaurant where
the view of an increasing swell created something of a distraction for me.
My gear was 10 miles away, and the wind was coming up. She lived 5 miles in
the wrong direction. Guess who took a cab home? ;-)
Another windsurfing date was with this somewhat strange girl who claimed to
be from Sao Paulo. She spoke with a Brazilian accent and certainly wore the
suit to prove it. Anyway, we talked on the beach, agreed to grab dinner and
drinks, and left directly from windsurfing. Things never really clicked.
At the end of the evening I drove all the way back to the beach for her car.
I assumed she had one, but nothing was around. Thinking it was stolen, I
became marginally alarmed as it at least wasn't my car. She said only that
everything was fine, and that she'd call me later, goodbye. Well, she
didn't call, and I learned a few days later that she had no car, had no
apartment, and lived out of a backpack and board bag stashed away. I've
slept many nights in my board bag, but usually in places worth the PITA
factor. I admired her free spirit, and realized her free spirit explained
our disconnectedness. That, and she had no shoes which made getting into
the restaurant interesting as I had to loan her my socks.
I've had only one real windsurfing "date." There we were, together, sailing
along in a light breeze-tandem, when we fell; I into the water and she into
and through my sail. Only much later did she realize the degree to which I
suppressed my anxiety about that butt-through-sail experience. She now
claims that that experience confirmed that I was a good catch. (Her
description of me, of course!)
OK, windsurfing got me one chick, with another chick getting ready to hatch.
-Dan
"Craig (gsogh) Goudie" <gor...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:425557F8...@netzero.net...
Paul Braunbehrens
<x...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> I can't make up my mind, so I keep my front strap tight and my back strap
> loose. Well OK, loose back strap lets me get my foot over the center line,
> and I've never tweaked my back foot.
The foot I just broke was my back foot, FWIW.
In article <20050406234...@News.Individual.DE>, Florian Feuser
/FFF/ <florian...@funnygarbage.com> wrote:
> For me, the concept doesn't work. If an anchor holds tight enough to be
> useful can hurt you if you can't rotate out of the strap because it's
> too narrow (or you're not supporting the foot during the wipe-out - see
> Mike's earlier post).
Hi Florian. I agree to some extent. I think you can still get hurt,
even with something that releases, if it's tight enough to be useful.
However, you may not get hurt as bad.
As for all the posts about twisting out and tensing the muscles etc.
etc., that may work for some falls. In my case (and I have heard of
others), I was going merrily along and suddenly found myself face first
in the water. I did not have time to tense the foot, pull it slightly
out of the strap, rotate it, refinance my second mortgage, or for that
matter, even realize what was happening, until AFTER the fact. Slam
BAM. That fast. Also, it was not a catapult. I think in a catapult
you are being pulled slightly up and out of the straps, and chances of
injury are probably lower. When hitting an underwater obstruction,
your momentum carries you in a direction that makes it much more likely
your foot will get stuck. The same is probably even more true of
botched landings.
I was thinking that a good strap release system would be somewhat
direction dependent. There should be a lot of force necessary to break
the connection when pulling straight up, but when pushing in a plane
that is parallel to the board, much less force should be necessary.
Martin Allen
Martin
"Dan Weiss" <dwu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:QeadndhU37x...@comcast.com...
Brian Sangeorzan
side of the foot strap was screwed to a nylon cylinder with a waist in it.
There was a small plate on the deck that had a spring loaded pin or ball
that fit into the waist when the nylon cylinder was properly inserted into
the plate. the spring load on the ball kept the nylon cylinder from pulling
out.
"Dan Weiss" <dwu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:r5mdnRw0KOc...@comcast.com...
billm...@netscape.net
from the footstraps. The tide was lower than I thought and I ran
aground on a sand bar at the surf line after sailing fine for about 1-2
hours. I went flying forward and the mast came down hard on my foot,
wedged between the mast and the board.
This is probably my worst windsurfing injury in about 12 years of the
sport, so that's not too bad.
Bill E.
Hollywood, FL
Papa
What about this:
I have been windsurfing since 2002, I became addicted, obsessed with
windsurfing, I usually go windsurfing with high wind or no wind,
raining etc, whatever when I have time, last year I decide to go to
doctor because I was feeling pain more than usual in my left ankle
(once in a while I had little pain in my left ankle since I was 15
years old I am 35 years now - I never compliant about because it did
not bother me at all).Last November was my last windsurfing session,
primarily because the cold weather here in Boston (lake Quannapowitt ,
south Boston, Nahant etc) and because my left ankle was swollen and
very painful. After my first X-rays and CAT scans I was devastated, I
cried and my wife told me that I was crazy because my only
preoccupation was if I was going to be able to windsurfing again, and
two days latter I cried again because I just received a brand new sail
that I ordered from Wardog and I was eager to try it out. The doctor
told me that he never saw anything like this before and he did not
understand how was able to walk with no pain ?!?!
Here is the clinical indication:
" There is a flattening of the talar dome. There is a periarticular
spurring, sclerosis and subchondral cysts in the tibiotalar joint.
Apparent widening of the ankle mortise medially is likely secondary to
degenerative changes. There is a cluster of punctuate 1-3mm
calcifications, 2-3 mm posterior aspect of the talus etc etc" The
doctor told me that my talus bone was like a "Swiss cheese" and he
told me also that very soon I would have to do a ankle fusion, that I
would loose mobility in my foot and I will develop arthritis for the
rest of my life... believe my friends my life is not the same
anymore...
Papa, warm winds !!
Dan Weiss
it, and do it really well. Just find Glenn Woodall and see what I mean.
-Dan
Boston, MA
"Papa" <loko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112976712.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Papa
EVERYDAY since 2000 and I am familiar with Glenn Woddell -->
Windivisions.com"
I am going to start my 2005 windsurfing session next sunday, let's pray
for the wind
Papa
Watertowm , Ma
Paul Braunbehrens
Mine doesn't hurt much, hope you have the same experience. Are you
sure it's not from the straps? I had some doubts about it in my case,
but my doc was pretty sure when he looked at the x-rays. After he
showed them to me and explained a bit I was forced to agree with him.
In article <1112956361.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Paul Braunbehrens
shock! Any idea what has caused this to happen?
BTW, get a second opinion for sure before doing any surgery.
In article <1112976712.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
billm...@netscape.net
I can't be sure, but someone on shore told me it looked like the mast
hit my foot. I remember catapulting into the front of the board. I
can only assume that I somehow placed my foot in front of the mast on
the deck of the board. The center of my foot also feels like the top
of it was slammed as it's very sensitive there.
I was able to walk on it gingerly when I got out of the water--enough
to put my equipment away and use it to drive back home. However, It
swelled up somewhat later that evening. It feels better now, but I'm
keeping ice on it constantly and using crutches to get around.
Bill
Craig (gsogh) Goudie
rigid (not too tight, just rigid) also. I wish you continuing health, and
good luck.
-Craig
Papa wrote:
--
Florian Feuser /FFF/
I am terribly sorry about your experience.
The moment looms in everyone's future where all activities we are
passionate about come to a halt. We could treat this as a tragic loss or
try to carry the experience with us and continue to feed off the
memories and the knowledge of our accomplishments.
That's what we do every time we have to come off the water and pack it
in for the day [week, month, year], and having absolutely no guarantee
of ever stepping back onto a board.
I am absolutely sure that you are very far away from having reached this
point - at least a second opinion away or maybe some custom domed-deck
pads - maybe even some surgery away. Maybe this is the beginning of
successful career in sit down sailing - who knows?
This is not really a cheerful posting - my apologies.
In simple terms there are two choices:
1. Enjoy it while it lasts, and then move on.
2. Make it work.
Number one is easy - there's a million of amazing things to do that are
only waiting for you to take interest in them.
Number two is a challenge, but you'll be in the company of outstanding
people.
florian /FFF/
Jeff aka shredulato
back in maui) twisted my foot badly and i think did something to my
knee havent run in 6 months .
bottom line .........foot too deep in the strap, i think it was fine
just toes but after some pounding it worked its way too far in.
well ......i wuz going flat out on a broad reach ready to gybe. It was
bumpy real bumy and the wind was up getting . the washing machine was
all over pell mell to say the least.
So i am heading into the gybe zone, and not wanting a jugular cut, i
am keeping an eyes out for possible contact sport enthusiasts.
i see this guy to leeward of me on a beam reach ..doing good one
second , then he loses it, one second doing fine the starts
tailriding his board out of control, as such he slowed considerably,
then really lost it and carved the sucker upwind right in front of me
and to leeward of me . figured he was some hotshot at first but he was
untanned, and the look on his face as he saw me in the kill zone (
heading straight for him)was one of terror. ( there seemed to be alot
of people out in the washing machine that day , you knwo not the one
with smiles on there faces or pissed off they missed a move but guys
who were absoltely friggin terrified yea even in the dom rep... )
i happened so fast, i had corrected to a beam reach watched this
dude....then boom he's in my face. i slowed up , then... big gust hit,
out of balance ...STOOPIDLY i tried to save the farm.
and got loaded up and went over the top. my front foots still in thye
strap and its feels like its in a vice. My face is on the sail the
board is still in normal sailign postion ie the tip is also near my
face ...slowly while my pitiful mewling fills the air along with a
few rasberries the board turns itself around.....
but the damage is done i head in take a few advil get some cervesa
and lots of ice my day is over ... wind died
and a few days later came back i was ok but in pain....the foot
bthered my for months figuired i streched some ligaments hardcore my
knee on that side developes some wierd pain while load bearing on a
slight angle .. MRI says nothing clean might be a "micro" tear yea
right feels like a macropain better now the running been gone for
awhile,.
billm...@netscape.net
right. My foot injury was most likely from the footstraps and not from
the mast falling on it. I have some straining of the tendons on the
outer mid foot area that could not have been caused by a mast falling
on top of my foot. Therefore, you can add this one to your list of
footstrap injuries.
Bill E.
Paul Braunbehrens
start sailing in 2 weeks, if I take it easy. If there was a system
that guaranteed that I wouldn't hurt myself again with the straps, I'd
be willing to pay one K for it, as long as that's for 3 boards. It has
cost me way more than that, just in medical bills. (I have insurance,
but a high deductible because I usually don't go to the doc very
often).
In article <1115982160.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
(PeteCresswell)
> If there was a system
>that guaranteed that I wouldn't hurt myself again with the straps, I'd
>be willing to pay one K for it, as long as that's for 3 boards.
Used to be Foot-Savers. But www.foot-savers.com was dead last time I checked.
I think the guy sold to a windurfing equipment company, but as far as I know the
company hasn't picked up the ball and run with it.
Been using them for some years now and wouldn't want anything else. They've
definately made my sailing less bad by virtue of letting me jam my size 15's way
in there where the heels don't drag as much in the water and also letting me
commit fully to feet-in-the-straps moves without worrying about what happens to
my feet if I crash.
--
PeteCresswell
billm...@netscape.net
I've been taking it easy too. It has been five weeks for me and I'm
able to walk OK but I still a little bit of inflammation if I walk too
much. I probably won't be windsurfing for a few weeks yet. I started
weight training again (very carefully) and also started riding the
stationary bike but keeping the stress off my foot. I did some
kayaking last week which was a nice way to get back into the ocean.
What did the doctor do for you other than tell you what was broken or
hurt?
Pete -- what exactly is foot savers? Is it some kind of breakaway
mount for your footstraps?
I generally place my feet very lightly in the straps, but I think that
when I ran aground, my feet were pushed further into the straps from
the momentum.
Bill
Paul Braunbehrens
<billm...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Paul,
>
>
> What did the doctor do for you other than tell you what was broken or
> hurt?
IT was broken in 2 places, so i was in a cast for 4 weeks, then in a
brace for 4. I still put the brace on once in a while when I've been
overdoing it.
>
> Pete -- what exactly is foot savers? Is it some kind of breakaway
> mount for your footstraps?
Basically yes. Check the archives, we were just talking about it when
I posted about my foot a couple months ago.
>
> I generally place my feet very lightly in the straps, but I think that
> when I ran aground, my feet were pushed further into the straps from
> the momentum.
Same here, although I don't put them in that lightly to begin with.
windsurf17
been missing since October. He went mountain-biking and was caught in
a blizzard. They found his van in the trailhead parking lot, but the
snow has been too deep for a successful search. My prayers are with
his family, as they hope to begin searching/recovery again in June.
Hans