Original Windsurfer for Sale

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Mark Schuyler

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Apr 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/6/00
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Original Windsurfer for Sale! Includes everything you need to get out
on the water and windsurf!

Includes two sails (one for heavy wind and one for light) in excellent
condition, board and centerboard in good condition, all fittings, etc.

This is a big, wide board, excellent for beginners and afficianodoes.

Asking $200 firm. Live in greater D.C. metro area. Contact
xcanv...@yahoo.com, if interested.


Ellen Faller

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Apr 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/6/00
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Mark,
Let me say that if this is indeed an "original" Windsurfer, it is an
excellent board for lighwind freestylers, board collectors/afficionados,
if it is complete and in good condition.
It is NOT an excellent board for beginners unless you have some major
grudge against the beginner, or some sort of maschistic streak. I
learned on an original Windsurfer, and have sailed many other of the
early boards, and I teach windsurfing now, so I feel exceedingly
confident in saying that it is NOT the board to even give to a newcomer
to the sport. Unless you want them to take up jetskiing.
Good luck,
Ellen

MTVNewsGuy

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Apr 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/6/00
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If I was closer to your area, I might buy the board for myself to freestyle on
and otherwise goof around. But as for beginners, I've still got my scars from
spending an hour on that beast...beginners should get on a Revo or Primo or Go
or equivalent.

Your board will make someone happy, though!
Michael
US5613

beach...@my-deja.com

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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Since when does everybody have a grand or more to plunk down on new learner
equipment? Granted, there is far better learner equipment available today,
but for 200 bucks an original windsurfer is a great deal for somebody to fool
around on and get a feel for windsurfing. On light summer breezes it's still
one of the greatest board/rig combos ever made.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Colin Gowland

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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Well on the other hand,

If there is a beginner who wants to learn windsurfing but doesn't have
$1200, only $200, this is a great beginner board. Especially if they are
young and agile. :) I learned on one and loved it - great cruiser, bring
your dog once you get good or ditch the sail and paddle around if it's
glassy - beats sitting on the beach looking at your pager.

Windsurfing isn't rocket science, and anyone who is fairly athletic would be
fine learning on this board IMHO. It might not be suitable for throwing on
your girlfriend who doesn't really want to learn in the first place though.
More for someone who likes to go out on the water and have fun with the
elements.

Fair Winds,
Colin

MTVNewsGuy <mtvne...@aol.com> wrote in message
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beach...@my-deja.com

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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The thing that stikes me with the responses about equipment, learning, etc.
that are posted here is that everybody seems to be getting their brains
clouded about the reason they started windsurfing. It is fun. It is
adventure. It it all about fooling around in the sun and water. Don't get
too serious, technical, rigid about people's equipment and learning
techniques. People with the true soul of a windsurfer will enjoy being out,
will persever, will become good. Alot of people, either as kids or adults,
will continue to first try new things with old, beatup, but affordable
equipment and have a great time in the process. Mellow out dudes.

sailquik

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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Colin:

> Well on the other hand,
In my opinion, there is NO "other hand" on this issue.


> If there is a beginner who wants to learn windsurfing but doesn't
>have $1200, only $200, this is a great beginner board.

The board is narrow, not particularly stable and has an almost
dangerous mast foot that is prone to separate, pinch toes, or fall
out of the board. None of these things should any part of the learning'
process!!!
They would be far better off to spend $100.00 on lessons from a good
school on modern training specific gear.
The will learn very quickly, almost effortlessly, have alot of fun
and come away from the lesson with a sense of achievement, not
frustration.


Especially if they are young and agile. :)

Had you said "strong" and "ignorant", I might agree.
Or maybe masochistic is a better term.
Why make learning to windsurf several magnitudes more difficult and
strenuous than it needs to be?? I have no clue, do you?

> I learned on one and loved it - great cruiser, bring
> your dog once you get good or ditch the sail and paddle around if
>it's glassy - beats sitting on the beach looking at your pager.

OK, so someone who is just getting started gets this old windsurfer.
They take it out and the rig doesn't balance, the CE in the sail moves
all over the place, the rig weighs at least 2-3 times what a modern
trainer on a carbon mast and boom weighs. He/she puts in the time
(a lot of time) teaching themselves, and at the end of the season
they have just about mastered the uphauling, tacking, jibing and beach
starts. They've probably spent nearly 40 hours or more in this endeavor
and many times have come back from a day of sailing with sore arms,
sore back, cuts and bruises from the antiquated rig and universal and
an overall sense of frustration that they are not improving faster.
A good school, using modern training gear can teach nearly anyone
to be at this level in a half a day. The lessons cost between $40 and
$100 and the students will leave with a sense of achievement, few if
any aching muscles,and an idea of what kind of sailing they may want
to pursue, which can lead them to purchase user friendly modern
gear that will support a rapid increase in sailing skills.
So which would you rather do?
But my biggest problem here is since you learned on this very heavy.
awkward gear, you feel that it's OK to try to teach others on this
same gear.
It's kinda a "I had to put in the time, experience the pain,
feel the frustration" so everyone else who wants to windsurf needs
to climb the same latter and feel experience the same things./
This is total BS and is the #1 reason that many people try windsurfing
and give up immediately. It's too hard, the gear is too heavy, I'm
not strong enough etc. etc. The list of excuses goes on and on,
but the root cause of the person quitting was the gear and the lack
of teaching skills involved.
I've had lots of these people try the Windglider, move onto the
Starboard GO, and then on to a Pheonix/Xantos etc.
They just rave about how lite the gear is, and how easy it is to learn
on. And these are people who've said they would never try WS again.

> Windsurfing isn't rocket science, and anyone who is fairly athletic
would be fine learning on this board IMHO.

Windsurfing is not rocket science I will agree, but teaching it is
sometimes very much like rocket science as the instructor needs to use
all the tricks of the educators trade, all of the students senses,
select the right venue and conditions, set all the gear up in a
balanced manner, to give the student thebest possible chance for
success.
Anyone, fairly athletic or otherwise, trying to learn on that old
board and rig, will be doing it the hard way!

> It might not be suitable for throwing on your girlfriend who doesn't
>really want to learn in the first place though.

It's completely unsuitable for anyone who you want to give a good
chance for some initial success!

> More for someone who likes to go out on the water and have fun with
>the elements.

More likely someone so hard headed that they only can learn from the
"school of hard knocks" and from the frustration of failure to
progress.
Sorry to rant, but obviously you've never taught a student on modern
training specific gear. Sometimes the never even fall in the water
in the milder conditions. How many times did you fall in the first day
you sailed? How far did you actually sail? My students usually can sail
for half a mile or more in the first hour they are on the board.
end of rant!
Roger

Glenn Kolberg

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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I've got an original windsurfer aswell, with double tail fin and original
triangle sail.
But it's not even worth 200$. I'd say 50$ is a reasonable price. Myself just
pass it on to friends that want to try the sport, instead of having my
carbon board damaged.
The board is well suited for a beginner that sail in safe conditions. I've
seen never, and other clones that has no stability, or sailing performance
whatsoever.
The original windsurfer can take a direct hit with solid rock whitout
getting damaged.
And spending 1000$ on a F2 Rookie has no meaning, as you may only use the
board 20 times
or so before you are ready for a new level.

Glenn

<beach...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8cjmfc$fsl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...


> Since when does everybody have a grand or more to plunk down on new
learner
> equipment? Granted, there is far better learner equipment available
today,
> but for 200 bucks an original windsurfer is a great deal for somebody to
fool
> around on and get a feel for windsurfing. On light summer breezes it's
still
> one of the greatest board/rig combos ever made.
>
>

MTVNewsGuy

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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Beach Guy wrote<< Alot of people, either as kids or adults,

will continue to first try new things with old, beatup, but affordable
equipment and have a great time in the process. >>

Absolutely. And for 200 bucks used battered gear that is lighter and much more
maneuverable can be had. I still thank the guy who dragged me to a swap meet
and away from the original windsurfer set up that I was learning to uphaul on.
At local swapmeets I now keep an eye out for beginners (so easy to spot) and
walk around with them assembling a suitable rig and board combo.
Michael
US5613

Peter Traykovski

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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The windsurfer is a classic board, and shouldn't be too bad for learning
for a light weight sailor (<150lbs), if some one else can carry it to the
beach. For a heavy sailor it is pretty sinky so forget it for learning.

But 200$ is not the market value of this board! A buddy gave me one these
last summer because he didn't want to deal with throwing it way or storing
it any more. IMHO these board should sold for a few cases of beer or
preferably given free to good home!..

A couple thru bolts and silicon solves the mast step popping out problem.
The rig can be relaced by something a bit lighter for learning, but the
long booms on the orginal rig is pretty good for freestyling...


--
Peter


Steven Slaby

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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sailquik (sail...@ameritel.net) writes:
> Sorry to rant, but obviously you've never taught a student on modern
> training specific gear. Sometimes the never even fall in the water
> in the milder conditions. How many times did you fall in the first day
> you sailed? How far did you actually sail? My students usually can sail
> for half a mile or more in the first hour they are on the board.
> end of rant!

I spend my first day "on" a windsurfer which was a very old, heavy barge
with a crappy sail. The reason I put quotes around the "on" is that I
probably spent less than 10 seconds at a time standing on it; the rest of
the time was spent falling off and getting frustrated. I wouldn't wish
that kind of experience on anyone (well, make an enemy ;-))

Steve.

--
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is
that it has never tried to contact us" (Bill Watterson)

Anonomous34567

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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maybe someone could explain this. If the original windsurfer was so hard to
learn, why were there a lot more windsurfers around years ago when it ruled the
roost. if the new boards are so easy, why aren't there a lot more around
today.

MTVNewsGuy

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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<< If the original windsurfer was so hard to
learn, why were there a lot more windsurfers around years ago when it ruled the
roost. if the new boards are so easy, why aren't there a lot more around
today. >>

The beginner board and the top of the line high performance board were the same
thing. Buy one board, you're set! Also, planing conditions were not required
for regattas, which the gear was well suited for.
Excellent question...not that I've answered it well. You should get a zillion
responses!

Michael
US5613

jldunne

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
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Any collectors (???) looking for one still in bubble wrap ? Know where
one is..

Doctor John..

sailquik

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
to Colin Gowland
Colin:
I've decided not to rant this evening.
You make some good points, about having fun.
But that's one part of teaching WS that I like to try and
emphasize during a lesson, and one of the ways I deviate a little
from the hard line "this is the way you learn to windsurf" instructor
guru's.
I understand where they are coming from, and they get alot more students
than I ever will. But they are in it to some degree to get a return on
their investment in training gear. I just buy it and use it.
I, at all times, try to make my students comfortable, and have fun
often at my expense. I sometimes fall in. Sometimes they loose their
balance and fall in, taking me with them off the Windglider.
It usually takes a little while to get back on because we are laughing
so much.
I go out with two or 3 kids at a time and they each learn from the
others little errors. I try not to ever tell anyone, child or adult,
the they "have to" do something in one certain way.
Every student learns a little differently, and I as the instructor need
to adjust the instruction to suit the individual students needs.
This requires that I listen to them very carefully, and encourage them
to ask alot of questions.
So I think the students have fun, and I know I have fun.

I will give you two instances which I think I may have described here
before that have led me to use the kind of gear that results in the
highest success rate for the students.

Two years ago a couple shows up at the Canadian Hole, in the summer
when there's not much wind in the morning, but the thermals tend to
kick in in the afternoon.
The guy rigs up about a 5.5 m2 heavy duty wave sail on a very heavy
older wave mast (perhaps the only mast he had that fit the sail) and
a large diameter and heavy looking boom.
His wife/girlfriend/S.O. was small and petite. He put her on a
310-320 fairly narrow older transition board.
I sat on the beach and watched this young lady struggle for half
an hour to pull that heavy rig out of the water, but she never could
Oh, they didn't show up in the morning when the winds were in the
5-10 knot range and near perfect for beginners, they waited until the
thermal had kicked in and the wind was in the 12-16 knot range.
After the half hour, having never gotten the rig out of the water
unassisted, she finally told him off and said she wasn't going to
try anymore.
Well I did talk to the guy and suggested that one of the shops had
some HiFly Revo's with small trainer rigs and they would even deliver
it to the Can. Hole and pick it up at the end of the day. Rental fee
was about $30. He didn't seem very interested, so I just decided he
was going to do it his way. I think I even offered to lend him my
trainer rig if he wanted.
So, the next day saw perfect beginner conditions again in the morning.
The couple showed back up and I watched in horror as he "made her"
try to uphaul the same rig again. He would help her get the rig out of
the water and then hold the board for balance. In a very short time
the wind would take the rig away from his girlfriend and dump her
back in the water. It was obvious that it was very important to the
guy that his girl learn to sail. After 15 min. of falling in, straining
her back, she had finally had enough and really told him off using alot
of 4 letter words. She went back to her beach chair, covered her head
with a towel and cried for half an hour.
I wanted to strangle the guy, but I've tried to "help" people in this
situation before, and I learned to just grit my teeth and stay out of
it.
I've never seen either of them again, so I have no idea what "learning
to windsurf" did to their relationship, but in can not have been good.

This past fall, one of the Canadian sailors was trying to teach his
son David how to sail. David had watched all the videos and seemed to
really have the desire and probably a good idea on the skills it takes
to sail. But dad had a big old 3xx longboard, and his smallest wave
sail. David could not pull the sail up out of the water as he at that
time was about 10-12 years old and 4' tall and lightly built.
I watched David and his dad for two days, about an hour a day, and
David just didn't have the strength to pull that sail out of the water
and get it balanced on that board with slightly choppy (8 knots maybe)
water conditions.
So I finally went down and asked if they would like to try the GO with
the 3.2 Sailworks trainer sail on a lite 100% carbon mast and a lite
small dia. carbon boom.
I put the little rig together, and put it on the GO.
David pushed it out deep enough so the trainer fin and Starbilizer side
fins were clear of the bottom. What happened next completely blew
David's dad and I away.
David jumped on the GO, uphauled the sail, and promptly sailed out about
100 yards. He raked the rig back and got the board half way through a
tack but lost hold of the uphaul and the rig went in the water.
He just pulled that little sail up out of the water, completed the
tack and sailed back to shore, grinning from ear to ear.
David sailed the GO with Dads coaching for at least an hour, sailing
out, tacking, sailing back in.
You see, David had all the skills he'd picked up from the video's,
but the heavy rig prevented him from putting those skills into practice.

Perhaps you can see the value of making things fun, and using beginner
friendly gear in both of these stories.
Learning to windsurf can be so easy, and so much fun, with a little
instruction (whether it be from an instructor, or from a video) and
gear that is light and user friendly.

OBTW, I do not charge for the lessons I give. Sometimes someone
slips me a few bucks, sometimes a nice bottle of wine, or maybe
we all go out to dinner to celebrate the students success.
I've taught children down to 6 years old and I've taught older
adults in their 70's. Each presents the instructor will a different
set of challenges, but it's always fun, because we make it fun.

Seeing people who really seem to want to learn to windsurf, give
up in frustration before the end of their first lesson, due to
the wrong gear, the wrong conditions, or ill considered instruction,
on an almost daily basis in Hatteras in the summer really sets me
off. But I have learned that you cannot change the situation. I can
offer my gear, or offer to teach them, but many of them will not
accept these offers for whatever their reasons are.
All I can do is watch another potential windsurfer walk away from
the sport, never having been given any real chance to succeed.
I place the blame here not on the students, and not on the gear or
conditions. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the well
intentioned friend or SO.. who really wants that person to learn, but
has neither the equipment nor the instructional skills to give them
any realistic chance to succeed.
This is why I rant on the older heavy user unfriendly gear/cheap
beginner gear posts.

It's almost painful to me to have to sit and watch as someone who
I could have out on the water having fun and learning in the first
10 minutes walk away from the beach very disappointed, and vowing
never to try WS again. I do get an opportunity from time to time to
work with someone who has given up before. It's usually pretty thrilling
to watch them as they really did pick up some skills even though they
gave up on the sport. They absolutely rave about how much easier it is
to sail on the WG or the Go, with a trainer rig. They often just pull
the sail up out of the water and sail away. With a few minutes of
refresher training to suggest some better ways to do things like a tack
and they are able to sail for hours, out, and back, upwind, downwind,
all by themselves in appropriate conditions.
later, Roger

Tauras

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Apr 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/7/00
to
They were too heavy and they were a dinosaur but fun to ride in light winds
since you can goof around and rail it up. I learned on one and had a great
time way back in '84, wish I had one now for the kids but alas I got my $00
for it way back in the late 80's ;)

Now and then...
www.slonet.org/~tsulaiti/Windsurfing.html

Tauras
www.slonet.org/~tsulaiti/surfreport/

Anonomous34567 wrote in message
<20000407120838...@ng-fg1.aol.com>...
>maybe someone could explain this. If the original windsurfer was so hard to

beach...@my-deja.com

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
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In article <8cklil$g70$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, sailquik (Roger Jackson)
<sail...@ameritel.net> wrote:> Colin:> > Well on the other hand,> In my

opinion, there is NO "other hand" on this issue.> > > If there is a beginner
who wants to learn windsurfing but doesn't> >have $1200, only $200, this is a
great beginner board.> The board is narrow, not particularly stable and has
an almost> dangerous mast foot that is prone to separate, pinch toes, or
fall> out of the board. None of these things should any part of the
learning'> process!!!> They would be far better off to spend $100.00 on
lessons from a good> school on modern training specific gear.> The will learn

very quickly, almost effortlessly, have alot of fun> and come away from the
lesson with a sense of achievement, not> frustration.> Especially if they
are young and agile. :)> Had you said "strong" and "ignorant", I might
agree.> Or maybe masochistic is a better term.> Why make learning to windsurf
several magnitudes more difficult and> strenuous than it needs to be?? I have
no clue, do you?> > > I learned on one and loved it - great cruiser, bring> >

your dog once you get good or ditch the sail and paddle around if> >it's
glassy - beats sitting on the beach looking at your pager.> OK, so someone
who is just getting started gets this old windsurfer.> They take it out and
the rig doesn't balance, the CE in the sail moves> all over the place, the
rig weighs at least 2-3 times what a modern> trainer on a carbon mast and
boom weighs. He/she puts in the time> (a lot of time) teaching themselves,
and at the end of the season> they have just about mastered the uphauling,
tacking, jibing and beach> starts. They've probably spent nearly 40 hours or
more in this endeavor> and many times have come back from a day of sailing
with sore arms,> sore back, cuts and bruises from the antiquated rig and
universal and> an overall sense of frustration that they are not improving
faster.> A good school, using modern training gear can teach nearly

beach...@my-deja.com

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to

Colin Gowland

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to
> They would be far better off to spend $100.00 on lessons from a good
> school on modern training specific gear.

That wouldn't do them much good if they were short on money. I said this is
an ok deal for someone with only $200 to spend on windsurfing gear. It will
get you out on the water and that's where the fun is at, no matter what your
on. (I realize we disagree on this point) So they take a lesson, big deal.
Now they can sit around and watch - what fun. Sure if money is in abundance,
throw down $100 for a few lessons and $500 for some gear.

> The will learn very quickly, almost effortlessly, have alot of fun
> and come away from the lesson with a sense of achievement, not
> frustration.
> Especially if they are young and agile. :)
> Had you said "strong" and "ignorant", I might agree.
> Or maybe masochistic is a better term.
> Why make learning to windsurf several magnitudes more difficult and
> strenuous than it needs to be?? I have no clue, do you?

You make it sound like falling in the water is hell on earth! Or maybe it's
the back strain? I think the average person with reasonable athletic ability
(and maybe a diagram on how to uphaul) would be fine but I'm not a certified
instructed and you are.

> OK, so someone who is just getting started gets this old windsurfer.
> They take it out and the rig doesn't balance, the CE in the sail moves
> all over the place, the rig weighs at least 2-3 times what a modern
> trainer on a carbon mast and boom weighs. He/she puts in the time
> (a lot of time) teaching themselves, and at the end of the season
> they have just about mastered the uphauling, tacking, jibing and beach
> starts. They've probably spent nearly 40 hours or more in this endeavor
> and many times have come back from a day of sailing with sore arms,
> sore back, cuts and bruises from the antiquated rig and universal and
> an overall sense of frustration that they are not improving faster.

This could be the case. Or maybe they are out a few weekends at the cottage
and it's really sunny so they rig up the windsurfer and a bunch of friends
try it and everyone laughs at each other and have a blast. Then a few people
get the hang of it and cruise around, fall off, get wet, get back on etc.
Kids take it out and paddle around and you don't mind because it's not your
super board that you dropped $800 bucks on.

> A good school, using modern training gear can teach nearly anyone
> to be at this level in a half a day. The lessons cost between $40 and
> $100 and the students will leave with a sense of achievement, few if
> any aching muscles,and an idea of what kind of sailing they may want
> to pursue, which can lead them to purchase user friendly modern
> gear that will support a rapid increase in sailing skills.
> So which would you rather do?

I would rather go hang out with friends and have fun on the windsurfer
instead of making it some kind of 'mission' to learn windsurfing. I know
many people in the same boat. But I also know others who see Robby Naish's
video and want to learn FAST - Then they would probably be better off
spending the cash and taking some lessons. It all depends on the individuals
situation - there's no one 'right' way for everyone to learn and if you
think there is, I disagree sincerely.

> But my biggest problem here is since you learned on this very heavy.
> awkward gear, you feel that it's OK to try to teach others on this
> same gear.
> It's kinda a "I had to put in the time, experience the pain,
> feel the frustration" so everyone else who wants to windsurf needs
> to climb the same latter and feel experience the same things./

That's not my situation at all and I've never put anyone on a windsurfer who
hated it. Probably because I wasn't trying to teach them everything in one
day, more like teaching little kids - "there's a board over there if you
feel like going to paddle around on the water" .. I let the few friends I
taught do whatever they felt like and eventually they had the sail on and
were cruising around and loving the outdoors. Is this a crime? If I had a
nice GO board, that'd be great but this isn't about me anyway.

> This is total BS and is the #1 reason that many people try windsurfing
> and give up immediately. It's too hard, the gear is too heavy, I'm
> not strong enough etc. etc. The list of excuses goes on and on,
> but the root cause of the person quitting was the gear and the lack
> of teaching skills involved.
> I've had lots of these people try the Windglider, move onto the
> Starboard GO, and then on to a Pheonix/Xantos etc.
> They just rave about how lite the gear is, and how easy it is to learn
> on. And these are people who've said they would never try WS again.

Good for you! That's great! Maybe they were being so flooded with
information that they had no time to relax and have fun, regardless of
whether they learned to tack or not :)

> Windsurfing is not rocket science I will agree, but teaching it is
> sometimes very much like rocket science as the instructor needs to use
> all the tricks of the educators trade, all of the students senses,
> select the right venue and conditions, set all the gear up in a
> balanced manner, to give the student thebest possible chance for
> success.

I agree that teaching in a 'modern' (formal?) sense is this way. I disagree
that this should be the way everyone has to learn. Looks to me like your
saying "If you can't afford to take a lesson from a certified instructor and
then by some good gear, don't even bother because you will hate it." Please
correct me if I'm wrong, I can hardly see you believing this.

> Anyone, fairly athletic or otherwise, trying to learn on that old
> board and rig, will be doing it the hard way!

But maybe the only availible way which is better than no way at all. It can
also be FUN like I explained earlier.

> It's completely unsuitable for anyone who you want to give a good
> chance for some initial success!

That would depend on your definition of success Roger. Is getting someone
planing and jibing as fast as possible success? That's simply not everyone's
goal- I'm sure you know what I'm getting at here by now.

>
> > More for someone who likes to go out on the water and have fun with
> >the elements.
> More likely someone so hard headed that they only can learn from the
> "school of hard knocks" and from the frustration of failure to
> progress.

Now your the one talking BS.

> Sorry to rant, but obviously you've never taught a student on modern
> training specific gear. Sometimes the never even fall in the water
> in the milder conditions.

Wow! That's amazing! Not falling in the water!! Now that's success Roger.
Once upon a time I taught a 7 year old how to have fun on a windsurfer with
an umbrella but alas, he eventually fell in the water.

> How many times did you fall in the first day
> you sailed? How far did you actually sail? My students usually can sail
> for half a mile or more in the first hour they are on the board.

That's great, I wish I could have but I didn't have a windglider or a go
board. I still loved it though, I was never forced to go nor did I ever
think "I hate this but I have to go windsurfing." I've never heard of this
situation actually but maybe you have.

Goodwinds,
Colin


Colin Gowland

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to

sailquik <sail...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:38EE96B2...@ameritel.net...

> Colin:
> I've decided not to rant this evening.
> You make some good points, about having fun.
> But that's one part of teaching WS that I like to try and
> emphasize during a lesson, and one of the ways I deviate a little
> from the hard line "this is the way you learn to windsurf" instructor
> guru's.

I think that's important!

> I understand where they are coming from, and they get alot more students
> than I ever will. But they are in it to some degree to get a return on
> their investment in training gear. I just buy it and use it.
> I, at all times, try to make my students comfortable, and have fun
> often at my expense. I sometimes fall in. Sometimes they loose their
> balance and fall in, taking me with them off the Windglider.
> It usually takes a little while to get back on because we are laughing
> so much.
> I go out with two or 3 kids at a time and they each learn from the
> others little errors. I try not to ever tell anyone, child or adult,
> the they "have to" do something in one certain way.
> Every student learns a little differently, and I as the instructor need
> to adjust the instruction to suit the individual students needs.
> This requires that I listen to them very carefully, and encourage them
> to ask alot of questions

Agreed! Different students require different teaching
style/method/conditions (rocket science)

> I will give you two instances which I think I may have described here
> before that have led me to use the kind of gear that results in the
> highest success rate for the students.

<snip>


> Perhaps you can see the value of making things fun, and using beginner
> friendly gear in both of these stories.

I can, I do!

> Learning to windsurf can be so easy, and so much fun, with a little
> instruction (whether it be from an instructor, or from a video) and
> gear that is light and user friendly.

<snip>


> Seeing people who really seem to want to learn to windsurf, give
> up in frustration before the end of their first lesson, due to
> the wrong gear, the wrong conditions, or ill considered instruction,
> on an almost daily basis in Hatteras in the summer really sets me
> off. But I have learned that you cannot change the situation. I can
> offer my gear, or offer to teach them, but many of them will not
> accept these offers for whatever their reasons are.
> All I can do is watch another potential windsurfer walk away from
> the sport, never having been given any real chance to succeed.
> I place the blame here not on the students, and not on the gear or
> conditions. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the well
> intentioned friend or SO.. who really wants that person to learn, but
> has neither the equipment nor the instructional skills to give them
> any realistic chance to succeed.
> This is why I rant on the older heavy user unfriendly gear/cheap
> beginner gear posts.

Understood, but there are different, but maybe uncommon instances aside from
that which you describe... I'll call these Hatteras 'incidents' the
pressure situation, that is, doing something out of trust or coaxing from
someone else "don't worry, it will be worth it in a week, 2 months, 4 years
etc." . I agree, with this situation in an active windsurfing scene
(Hatteras) good modern beginner gear is essential. When someone wants to
learn on there own just for something else to do during the day at the
beach, (they have never seen 'Going Off - Volume 6') I believe an Original
Windsurfer or traditional longboard is good enough since there is no
pressure and the learner goes out at there own will etc. They eventually get
up and never knew any better and enjoy windsurfing and possibly discover the
world of GEAR. Sure a GO would be great but.. sometimes it's not an option.

> It's almost painful to me to have to sit and watch as someone who
> I could have out on the water having fun and learning in the first
> 10 minutes walk away from the beach very disappointed, and vowing
> never to try WS again. I do get an opportunity from time to time to
> work with someone who has given up before. It's usually pretty thrilling
> to watch them as they really did pick up some skills even though they
> gave up on the sport. They absolutely rave about how much easier it is
> to sail on the WG or the Go, with a trainer rig. They often just pull
> the sail up out of the water and sail away. With a few minutes of
> refresher training to suggest some better ways to do things like a tack
> and they are able to sail for hours, out, and back, upwind, downwind,
> all by themselves in appropriate conditions.

That is a painful site you describe. Hopefully with guys like you hanging
around and beginner R&D guys stepping up large, more people will try and
love windsurfing..... for life!

Good on ya,
Colin

beach...@my-deja.com

unread,
Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to
In article <mxyH4.148110$Hq3.3...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>, "Colin
Gowland" <colin-...@home.com> wrote:> > sailquik <sail...@ameritel.net>

beach...@my-deja.com

unread,
Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to
In article <mxyH4.148110$Hq3.3...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>, "Colin
Gowland" <colin-...@home.com> wrote:> > sailquik <sail...@ameritel.net>

wrote in message> news:38EE96B2...@ameritel.net...> > Colin:> > I've
decided not to rant this evening.> > You make some good points, about having
fun.> > But that's one part of teaching WS that I like to try and> >
emphasize during a lesson, and one of the ways I deviate a little> > from the
hard line "this is the way you learn to windsurf" instructor> > guru's.> > I
think that's important!> > > I understand where they are coming from, and
they get alot more students> > than I ever will. But they are in it to some
degree to get a return on> > their investment in training gear. I just buy it
and use it.> > I, at all times, try to make my students comfortable, and have
fun> > often at my expense. I sometimes fall in. Sometimes they loose their>
> balance and fall in, taking me with them off the Windglider.> > It usually
takes a little while to get back on because we are laughing> > so much.> > I
go out with two or 3 kids at a time and they each learn from the> > others
little errors. I try not to ever tell anyone, child or adult,> > the they
"have to" do something in one certain way.> > Every student learns a little
differently, and I as the instructor need> > to adjust the instruction to
suit the individual students needs.> > This requires that I listen to them
very carefully, and encourage them> > to ask alot of questions> > Agreed!
Different students require different teaching> style/method/conditions
(rocket science)> > > I will give you two instances which I think I may have
described here> > before that have led me to use the kind of gear that
results in the> > highest success rate for the students.> <snip>> > Perhaps
you can see the value of making things fun, and using beginner> > friendly
gear in both of these stories.> > I can, I do!> > > Learning to windsurf can

William Fragakis

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to
In article <20000407120838...@ng-fg1.aol.com>,
anonomo...@aol.com (Anonomous34567) wrote:

> maybe someone could explain this. If the original windsurfer was so hard to
> learn, why were there a lot more windsurfers around years ago when it
ruled the
> roost. if the new boards are so easy, why aren't there a lot more around
> today.

I think you answered your own question. If the original windsurfer had
been more beginner friendly, so many of those who tried it would still be
windsurfing.

For every one windsurfer I know, I've met probably 10 people who've said,
yeah, I tried that once and it was a pain in the ass.

Only self-mutilating psychopaths stuck with it: who else would put up with
the scrapes, falls and strained backs?

BTW, the last I checked in the US. New trainer boards go for $700 with a
modern rig.


To answer part II of your question, refer to part I. Few people are
willing to learn now because the image of learning to windsurf still
requires falling in, uphauling, straining the back, falling in (repeat
till death or you decide to buy a jetski- whichever comes first).

wf

RandacF

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Apr 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/8/00
to
Actually,

I think that a basic problem with an older board like this for a begginer has
nothing to do with how hard or easy it might be to sail. Rather, where do you
find parts if something breaks. For that reason, alone I think this type of
board is better for "collectors" instead of newcomers.

Randy

brick...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 11:24:50 AM7/9/16
to
On Thursday, April 6, 2000 at 8:00:00 AM UTC+1, Mark Schuyler wrote:
> Original Windsurfer for Sale! Includes everything you need to get out
> on the water and windsurf!
>
> Includes two sails (one for heavy wind and one for light) in excellent
> condition, board and centerboard in good condition, all fittings, etc.
>
> This is a big, wide board, excellent for beginners and afficianodoes.
>
> Asking $200 firm. Live in greater D.C. metro area. Contact
> xcanv...@yahoo.com, if interested.

randacf---your so interesting !!!

gulfsta...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 25, 2020, 12:14:00 AM7/25/20
to
On Thursday, April 6, 2000 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mark Schuyler wrote:
> Original Windsurfer for Sale! Includes everything you need to get out
> on the water and windsurf!
>
> Includes two sails (one for heavy wind and one for light) in excellent
> condition, board and centerboard in good condition, all fittings, etc.
>
> This is a big, wide board, excellent for beginners and afficianodoes.
>
> Asking $200 firm. Live in greater D.C. metro area. Contact
> xcanv...@yahoo.com, if interested.

I would like to buy your board please
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