Bad back & windsurfing
Ira Gladnick
experiencing back problems. My back normally doesn't give me any problems,
but there's a kind of latent stiffness that can get aggrevated if I bend
myself out of shape, leading to pain and difficulty standing up straight.
I was using a kind of heavy board (BIC Calypso). It came with a sail that
was around 5.7, but at the end I was using a 4.2 sail under moderate
conditions. However, I was using the same rig for the 4.2 as for the 5.7,
so the whole setup was kind of clunky (top of the sail was well down from the
top of the mast; also, mast and boom were on the heavy side.) (I wasn't
using a seat or harness. My skill level was pretty low; only got planing
a couple of times.)
I may be deluding myself, but I've had the idea recently that if I got
a stable, light-weight board with a light-weight mast and boom, and stayed
with a small sail, I might be able to take up the sport again. (My interest
runs to the recreational end as opposed to racing or wave jumping.)
If there are other 'windsufferers' out there who have had experience with
back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
(The kind of board I've been thinking about is a relatively light transitional
board with a daggerboard for stability, something like the 10'3" 145 liter
24 lb. Comet F2 Slalom 315, which I saw in a catalog.)
Brad Ritter
: A few years back, I took up windsurfing but gave it up when I started
: experiencing back problems.
Look into a device called a Backsport. It's a lot like the belt that
weight lifters wear. The difference is that it is made of material that
isn't hurt by constantly being in the water. If this sounds like a good
idea to you I can probably dig up a company name and address. I believe
they go for about $50.
Brad Ritter
Bob Galvan
>(I wasn't using a seat or harness.)
That's the problem right there! When you're hooked in and all the forces are
balanced properly, it's like sitting in a chair - effortless.
A daggerboard does not give stabilty either, it gives upwind ability, and
changes how the board handles. Most beginers are only confused by them, most
advanced sailors have no use for them. LIght wind cruisers can use 'em.
Small sails are for big winds. It really is easier when you're planing.
Ira, what you need is some good INSTRUCTION. A sailing buddy to guide
you through the learning process, or a good instuctional camp, like an
ABK camp, or a lesson package in Maui or Hood River.
Paul Walmsley
|> A daggerboard does not give stabilty either, it gives upwind ability, and
|> changes how the board handles. Most beginers are only confused by them, most
|> advanced sailors have no use for them. LIght wind cruisers can use 'em.
|>
A daggerboard does give more stabilty, when you are hardly moving that is.
Once you are properly planing it tends to lead to railing - and SPLASH
over you go.
Paul
Richard Enbody CPS
Twice I have had spasms that prevented movement without extreme pain and
which took many days (in bed) and medicine to cure. Each time my back has hurt
it has because I have let myself get out of shape and spend too much time
at a desk. I took up windsurfing with little expectation that I could do
it because of my back. However, as long as I am generally in shape and
have been doing my back exercises and stretching, I am fine. I am not
a particularly good windsurfer. I learned to waterstart last year, and
don't always succeed. My attempts at jibes are comical. I spent about
five years on a Windsurfer and the last five years with a HiFly320.
Neither is particularly lightweight and I was uphauling most of that
time. For a long time I didn't use a harness. I mention all of this
because I believe that the weight of the rig is not the issue. I also
believe that intermittent back problems need not keep you from windsurfing
(continuous back problems are probably another story). For myself, getting
and keeping my back in shape allows me to windsurf. I have not had windsurfing
"cause" back problems -- it is always the desk job that does it. My suggestion
is to get your back into shape possibly with the help of a physical therapist
and then head for the water again.
Having said all that, I believe that waterstarting and a harness make
windsurfing easier on the back, but they are secondary effects.
-rich
gilc...@sscl.uwo.ca
> A few years back, I took up windsurfing but gave it up when I started
> experiencing back problems. My back normally doesn't give me any problems,
> but there's a kind of latent stiffness that can get aggrevated if I bend
> myself out of shape, leading to pain and difficulty standing up straight.
>
My 2 cents worth...
When you speak of a bad back, it's worth noting that there are many possible
reasons for the problem and even several manifestations. So, bearing that
in mind, I've had a repeatedly herniated lumbar disc and have had difficulties
sailing sometimes.
First of all, the weightlifting support that others have suggested sounds like
a good idea and I might try it myself.
Second, the seat harness that I use appears to be very useful. On days when
I can't get planing, or those on-and-off days, the back pain is the
worst. Note that those are the same days that you can't spend any or much
time in the harness. High wind, powered up days are usually relatively pain-
free. However, some caveats. Lots of spills means lots of starts. If my
back is really stiff to start with, it's very difficult to get the bend
in my body needed to waterstart. On the other hand, uphauling exacerbates
the problem and leads to further pain and stiffness.
Finally, I think the kind of board you use probably makes little difference.
I sail a heavy (plastic) transition board, and apart from needing to be
careful lifting and carrying it, I don't see how it could be a problem.
Of course the daggerboard is likely to be used on light wind days and hence
might appear to be associated with back pain, but really this is only a
function of not being able to hang out in the harness.
My rules are generally to sail only on days with enough wind (and using big
enough sails) that I can plane most of the time, don't sail if my back is too
stiff or sore beforehand, be VERY careful to use my legs rather than
my back if uphauling, do back extensions religiously along with other
strengthening and flexibility exercises, and be extrememely grateful for
the fun times sailing.
Happy sailing!
Rae
Brian Nash
|> back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
|> knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
|>
|> (The kind of board I've been thinking about is a relatively light transitional
|> board with a daggerboard for stability, something like the 10'3" 145 liter
|> 24 lb. Comet F2 Slalom 315, which I saw in a catalog.)
I can't offer much in the way of board/sail size suggestions, but
FWIW, I ruptured a disc in my lower back in July '92 and hadn't
been on a board until last week when I went Margarita Island. I
had been doing a good amount of sailing before the injury, but was
nearly crippled after for approx a month. After about a years worth of
conditioning (weights, running, stairmaster, etc.) I decided to
go for it last week, and made it through relatively unscathed.
I wore one of those new-style weight-belts (made of neoprene and
velcro) right above my seat harness, and I think It helped alot
(although some of it may have been psychological). I woke-up
pretty stiff every morning, but it wasn't anything some Advil and
stretching couldn't take care of ;-)
Regards, Brian
P.S. Margarita was awesome!
brun...@brunelle.crd.ge.com
and hours spent on a computer. Invest in an ergonomically correct chair, and
improve your posture. Unless you are a rank beginner who needs to uphaul
every few minutes, your back problems will NOT come from windsurfing.
You should also get into a seat harness as soon as possible. I can't imagine
sailing for very long hanging off a boom with no harness!
Richard A. Peterson
in December wrestling with swirling lake winds and know that
this was due to going straight out without loosening up first
compounded by some bad form and lots of bent over uphauling.
The exercises I've found most useful are (1) 5 minutes flat on
the floor on my stomach followed by (2) 5 minutes still on the
floor but raised on my elbows, followed by (3) ten or so reps
of raising my front up sort of like a pushup but with my
abdomen still on the floor (have something on tv or on the
stereo, this is really boring), then (4) flipping over on my back
and assumming the fetal position with my knees pulled up to my
chest for 10 - 10 second reps. I read this procedure in some
backpain book some time ago and it seems to have worked for me.
--
Rick Peterson
Health Sciences Library, University of Virginia
Charlottesville, VA 22908
(804) 924-0059 ra...@virginia.edu
John Broome
> ....If there are other 'windsufferers' out there who have had experience with
>back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
>knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
I have been sailing with a disc problem for 10 years. I find the ways to avoid
problems are as follows:
1) Stay in shape, Good muscle tone in your lower back makes a big difference.
2) Avoid long sessions in BIG sail slogging conditions. A few hours of slogging
in 6.5-7.5 m conditions kills my back.
3) Use a harness with a low hook height. I recently bought a new harness with a
higher hook height (about 4") and found that my back became tired much more
quickly than with my old harness with a lower hook height. The lower hook
height seems to allow more of a sitting position which takes the load off
your back.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
John Broome Ph: 613-995-6914
Potential Fields Section fax: 613-947-1819
Geological Survey of Canada
1 Observatory Cr., Ottawa,
Ontario, Canada, K1A 0Y3
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Volker Wedemeier
|> experiencing back problems. My back normally doesn't give me any problems,
|> but there's a kind of latent stiffness that can get aggrevated if I bend
|> myself out of shape, leading to pain and difficulty standing up straight.
|>
|> I was using a kind of heavy board (BIC Calypso). It came with a sail that
|> was around 5.7, but at the end I was using a 4.2 sail under moderate
|> conditions. However, I was using the same rig for the 4.2 as for the 5.7,
|> so the whole setup was kind of clunky (top of the sail was well down from the
|> top of the mast; also, mast and boom were on the heavy side.) (I wasn't
|> using a seat or harness. My skill level was pretty low; only got planing
|> a couple of times.)
|>
|> I may be deluding myself, but I've had the idea recently that if I got
|> a stable, light-weight board with a light-weight mast and boom, and stayed
|> with a small sail, I might be able to take up the sport again. (My interest
|> runs to the recreational end as opposed to racing or wave jumping.)
|>
|> If there are other 'windsufferers' out there who have had experience with
|> back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
|> knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
When I learned to windsurf, I also experienced, well, you might call it a stiff
and aching back caused by the strain of the back muscles after longer sailing.
But these problems vanished completely as soon as I learned to use a seat harness.
So unless you have any serious medical problems with you back, the best advice
would probably be to learn to use a harness (preferably a seat harness) and to
plane as soon as possible.
You really won't believe how comfortable it is to be sitting in your harness and
planing at top speed over the water. Going slow, not planing really is the most
tiring thing at windsurfing. (Physically as well as mentaly! :-))) )
Volker
Cris Hannu
>
> > ....If there are other 'windsufferers' out there who have had experience with
> >back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
> >knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
> > ....
went away, haven't had any significant problems windsurfing - as long as I stick
with the conditioning and stretching exercises the physical therapist set me up
with.
> I have been sailing with a disc problem for 10 years. I find the ways to avoid
> problems are as follows:
>
> 1) Stay in shape, Good muscle tone in your lower back makes a big difference.
Keep your stomach muscles in shape, too. They're every bit as important as your
back muscles for support.
> 2) Avoid long sessions in BIG sail slogging conditions. A few hours of slogging
> in 6.5-7.5 m conditions kills my back.
Avoid prolonged slogging sessions, period! My back bothers me more if I've spent
time with my board knee-high underwater, than it does floating around hanging on
to a *big* sail (my idea of big being anything > 5.5 :).
> 3) Use a harness with a low hook height. I recently bought a new harness with a
> higher hook height (about 4") and found that my back became tired much more
> quickly than with my old harness with a lower hook height. The lower hook
> height seems to allow more of a sitting position which takes the load off
> your back.
>
aka. seat harness. I've used a seat harness since day-one of windsurfing so I'd
recommend it, even though I have no experience with other types (if it ain't
broke, don't fix it! right? :).
Cris
--
Cris Hannu | Windsurfing the high country.
Cray Research, Inc. |
@NCAR - Boulder, CO | ^ ^
c...@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu | / \ ___)___ / \
Craig Goudie
>> ....If there are other 'windsufferers' out there who have had experience with
>>back problems and could offer suggestions (or anybody else who might be
>>knowledgeable in this area), I would very much like to hear from you.
>> ....
I've had my back rebuilt twice, it's now fused on L4 L5 (used to be a bump
skiier). My opinion is that
tightening your stomach is the best possible method for strengthening your
lower back. This means you have to do crunches, lots of them, and you have
to stretch your hamstrings, and low back a lot. Chiros aren't bad either
unless you've got irrepairable damage. Don't ever pick anything up
(except your rig). If you must pick someting up bend your knees and keep your
back straight.
If you really want a lot of info, Email me and I'll tell you what I know
about low backs, injury, and therapy.
> I have been sailing with a disc problem for 10 years. I find the ways to avoid
>problems are as follows:
>1) Stay in shape, Good muscle tone in your lower back makes a big difference.
This is true but generally it's your lower abs that are the big problem.
>2) Avoid long sessions in BIG sail slogging conditions. A few hours of slogging
> in 6.5-7.5 m conditions kills my back.
Amen to this, if you can't plane, wait.
>3) Use a harness with a low hook height. I recently bought a new harness with a
> higher hook height (about 4") and found that my back became tired much more
>John Broome Ph: 613-995-6914
>Potential Fields Section fax: 613-947-1819
>Geological Survey of Canada
>1 Observatory Cr., Ottawa,
>Ontario, Canada, K1A 0Y3
Craig
8'10" Bailey jump, 9'9" Sailboards Maui
Wt 155#, Ht 6'3", Usually sail on high desert lakes near SLC in Ut
Go short or go home
trevor
>
>In article <2juohp$f...@crl.crl.com>, kasp...@crl.com (Bob Galvan) writes:
>
>|> A daggerboard does not give stabilty either, it gives upwind ability, and
>|> changes how the board handles. Most beginers are only confused by them, most
>|> advanced sailors have no use for them. LIght wind cruisers can use 'em.
>|>
>
OK I've no use for a dagger board.
You get on your daggerless board Me on my race board (with a f.cking big
dagger board) a good force three (or whatever your board will plane in)
and I will beat you a windward mark every time.
The main reason thw world cup guys stopped using course boards was:
1. They have a 15Knot min. wind speed.
2. There is no max. skeg size (they have dagger boards on the back !)
3. They are good and can tack a short board 100% of the time on the plane.
4. They sail grossly over powered where the drag from a long board make
starting impossible.
4. They go down the reaches so fast that a course board become dangerous.
None ofthis applies to us mere mortals.
Regards Trevor
chad price
>experiencing back problems. My back normally doesn't give me any problems,
>but there's a kind of latent stiffness that can get aggrevated if I bend
>myself out of shape, leading to pain and difficulty standing up straight.
>
>I was using a kind of heavy board (BIC Calypso). It came with a sail that
>was around 5.7, but at the end I was using a 4.2 sail under moderate
>conditions. However, I was using the same rig for the 4.2 as for the 5.7,
>so the whole setup was kind of clunky (top of the sail was well down from the
>top of the mast; also, mast and boom were on the heavy side.) (I wasn't
>using a seat or harness. My skill level was pretty low; only got planing
>a couple of times.)
>
>I may be deluding myself, but I've had the idea recently that if I got
>a stable, light-weight board with a light-weight mast and boom, and stayed
>with a small sail, I might be able to take up the sport again. (My interest
>runs to the recreational end as opposed to racing or wave jumping.)
>
What is probably more to the point than small sails, is to learn to use a harness.
My wife has had back problems (fairly severe at times) and I have had some minor
problems, and windsurfing does not either cause or cure them. That is.... as long
as we both use harnesses we are OK.
I would recommend new lightweight equipment, if only because its easier to sail; but
board and sail size are more directly related to the wind conditions you intend to
sail in. In light winds, a small sail is more difficult to handle than a larger sail
because it can't hold you up against the wind. Conversely, a too-large sail in higher
winds is equally, if not more, difficult to deal with.
AKeister
> changes how the board handles. Most beginers are only confused by them,
> most advanced sailors have no use for them. LIght wind cruisers can use 'em.
I strongly disagree! When I was a beginner, I could hardly sail my 160 l.
board
without the daggerboard down. I was falling off the board as soon as I got the
sail out of the water. The daggerboard kept the board from moving from
side-to-side as easily when I made bad moves.
I believe daggerboards are a must for beginners.
- Alan
akei...@aol.com
David C. Troup
Dont forget 6. They HATE traveling with them on planes!
>None ofthis applies to us mere mortals.
I dunno, you can have a 15kt minimum...some guys on Maui wont go
out unless it's 5ft+, and lets not forget, "Just say NO to 5.0!". I dunno,
I have a hell of alot of fun in sub planing conditions, but I have a HELL
of alot more fun in 5.0 waves! :-) I did like Robby's quote in the video,
"I didnt plane for the first 3 years, and I had a hell of alot of fun."(or
something like that...)
See ya'll on the water!
--
David C. Troup - DC12
dtr...@carroll1.cc.edu
Riding for...
SEATREND, SIMMER, FIBERSPAR, BODY GLOVE, THULE, TRUE AMES and VISUAL SPEED