Are Mistral boards "softer" than F2
Dave Crabbe
I am having delamination problems
on my '94 CGI screamer and am wondering
if Mistral boards are "softer" than
other brands, such as F2 (but perhaps
have better performance)
I was susprised my board (after 2 short
seasons) is getting this soft in the
area between the foot straps. No major
crashes, and I don't jump it. Only
time I stand there is slogging, and
jibing .. (did learn to plane jibe on
this board)
Any comments?
Dave
Steven Swann
Mikal Todd <mike...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Yep they`re softer. Mistral Explosions delaminate too and so do
>Energisers from my experience. F2 are miles better and are much
>faster than Mistral boards, you don`t see that many successful pros
>using Mistral, do you?
Gosh, what is his name again - Robby something...! Thats right, Robby
Naish! Not that he is very succesfull, though!
What a load of rot - no problems with either of my two Mistrals (Energizer
& Electron). I'm not saying they are better or worse than F2 - just
that there is clearly not that much between them in terms of speed, just
feel. You can't go wrong with either F2, Mistral or Fanatic for that
matter.
The F2 and Fanatic fun ranges (axxis and
>Gecko) are very user friendly especiall the new Axxis 272 and ride
>277. Sell your Mistral and get the Ride 277.
Try one of each and make up your own mind. No doubt the "ride" is great,
but so too are the Mistrals & Fanatics.
Sailmad
I dont know if they are weaker than F2 but I had 4 Mistral boards in 18
months , under warrenty and they all had the same fault ,soft decks and
leaky seams two of my friends had the same problem. the boards were
3 edges cgi
2 electrons cgi
1 energiser
This was all about one year ago and since we have swopped to F2, Fanatic
and Gem had no problems .
None of us will buy Mistral again.
The warrenty you get runs out one year after you purchase the board (no
problem) but if it is replaced because of a manufacturing problem the
warrenty still runs out the same time ( in some ways you cant blame them
as some people would break their board to get a new one but it does leave
the legit claims up shit creak). So if the replacement has the same fault
( 3 did for me ) you are suck with a over weight and weak board which will
be a bitch to sell .
Thats life but sailing is still fun and I love it
mike
Tom
Ian G wrote:
>
> I have just returned a Mistral XLE 278 that went soft under my front feet.
> I purchased this in October last year and have used it predominantly as a
> slalom board. The board is promoted as a free ride design .... Dream on
> Mistral.
>
> This is my first and last Mistral - I'm selling the replacement board on
> consignment.
>
>
I wonder how many people are influenced by the experiences
people tell about regarding their equipment...
I want a board for 5.0 choppy conditions.
I thought I'd buy a Mistral Screamer 268 this year. Now I
think I'll go with the F2 Axxis 272. It won't match my
other 2 Mistral boards, but it may be around longer! :)
Tom
tanelson
@
ix.netcom.com
Ivars Kirsteins
My F2 Xantos 295 is virtually bullet proof... I've dropped it and
dragged it over rocks without scarcely a scratch!! On the other hand,
my CHS Echo and CGI Screamer II are considerably more fragile. They
seem to ding and get indentations quite a bit more easily than the
Xantos.
Ivars
In article <199708061...@zetnet.co.uk>, mike...@zetnet.co.uk
says...
>
>Yep they`re softer. Mistral Explosions delaminate too and so do
>Energisers from my experience. F2 are miles better and are much
>faster than Mistral boards, you don`t see that many successful pros
>using Mistral, do you? The F2 and Fanatic fun ranges (axxis and
>Gecko) are very user friendly especiall the new Axxis 272 and ride
>277. Sell your Mistral and get the Ride 277.
>--
>--== Mike...@zetnet.co.uk ==-- /!
> / !
>--== Win...@hotmail.com ==-- /__!
> /-----!----/
>windsurfing/web design page www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mtodd/surf
>"only a windsurfer knows the feeling of true SPEED"
>
>
Carl Edgar
Tom <tane...@nospam.com> wrote in article <33F046...@nospam.com>...
Hold on Tom,
The sample of people with Mistral problems in this NG is fairly small. I've
owned umpteen Mistrals (including an XLE 268) and not had the slightest
problems. However I've had an F2 delam on me and two Fanatics, one of which
split and the other snapped.
NB My Mistral Ecstasy got run over by a Coast Guard Land-Rover and survuved
with just a few screatches.
I have heard that the F2 Axxis 262/272 range has had problems with the fin
box type mast track.
Mistral, Fanatic and F2 are all big successful manufacturers and do not
make crap if you do get a dodgy board this should be covered by warranty.
Wolfgang Soergel
Ivars Kirsteins wrote:
>
> My F2 Xantos 295 is virtually bullet proof... I've dropped it and
> dragged it over rocks without scarcely a scratch!! On the other hand,
> my CHS Echo and CGI Screamer II are considerably more fragile. They
> seem to ding and get indentations quite a bit more easily than the
> Xantos.
While there seems to be some consenus here that Mistrals are somewhat
delicate (i've seen some soft decks and split rails myself as well),
i would not recommend dropping any board or dragging it over the rocks.
(OK, you can do it with a Tiga or Hifly or some custom wave boards)
Especially note that most F2s are lighter by around 1 pound since the
97 model year -- this certainly has some impact on their ding
resistance.
It is still imho not acceptable that boards get soft after short usage
but this is where twe seem to be headed, with people accepting that
some piece of plastic won't last longer han 2 years or so.
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Soergel
Lehrstuhl fuer Nachrichtentechnik phone: ++49-9131-857781
Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg fax: ++49-9131-303840
Cauerstrasse 7 email:
wsoe...@nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de
D-91058 Erlangen, GERMANY
http://www.nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de/~wsoergel
nick hoffman
Andrew Ronnau <cns...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<01bca739$9ddcd0c0$d9cc95ce@elizabeth>...
>
>
> Tom <tane...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I wonder how many people are influenced by the experiences
> > people tell about regarding their equipment...
> >
> > I want a board for 5.0 choppy conditions.
> > I thought I'd buy a Mistral Screamer 268 this year. Now I
> > think I'll go with the F2 Axxis 272. It won't match my
> > other 2 Mistral boards, but it may be around longer! :)
>
> My friend's new F2 Xantos 295 II just split a seam. This
> board was a warranty replacement for his first one, which
> sprung a leak on the deck when it was brand new.
>
> Andrew
>
it may be that your friend just has bad luck
i (and my dad) have a F2 Xantos 325 and my dad (he mostly sails on it)
hasn't had any problems at all
nick
Andrew Ronnau
Mikal Todd <mike...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in article
<199708122...@zetnet.co.uk>...
> I belive boards are only as they have been treated, some dicks don`t
> hose their kit down, do flat landings and drag it up the beach, what
> the frig do you expect to happen? I rinse all my kit (F2`s) and a
> Klepper 320 (yep!) It`s all in great nick, Kleppers delam, but not
> mine , it still has the graphics like new and working track etc, look
> after your kit and it will look after you!
The fellow I mentioned in the previous post takes excellent care
of everything he owns. Neither of the two boards were hit, banged,
jumped or launched upon. They were new, and DEFECTIVE.
By the way, not only does he take care of his stuff, he is a good guy,
not a dick at all.
Andrew
Ian G
Mikal Todd
I belive boards are only as they have been treated, some dicks don`t
hose their kit down, do flat landings and drag it up the beach, what
the frig do you expect to happen? I rinse all my kit (F2`s) and a
Klepper 320 (yep!) It`s all in great nick, Kleppers delam, but not
mine , it still has the graphics like new and working track etc, look
Lanzarote in Costa Teguise, and at the F2 centre, Ingo the manager
has not had ANY trouble with his hire kit, funnily enough he washes
it and takes good care of it and some of the boards are 3 years old
and still rockin`. Most of my mates now have F2`s and AHD`s and ACE`s
as these seem to be the only 3 major european brands that have minor
trouble and good fittings, along with shit hot performance. Fanatics
mess up as well SOMETIMES, and their straps suck. Mistrals look cool,
most are fine, although they definately have softening trouble,
although most people I know who have trouble don`t maintain their kit :-(.
Surf....loop and have a good time
Andrew Ronnau
Jonathan M Richardson
Ivars Kirsteins (iva...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: My F2 Xantos 295 is virtually bullet proof... I've dropped it and
: dragged it over rocks without scarcely a scratch!! On the other hand,
: my CHS Echo and CGI Screamer II are considerably more fragile. They
: seem to ding and get indentations quite a bit more easily than the
: Xantos.
Well, my One Design has been used an abused, but it is heavy as sh*t.
My Xantos has held up amazingly well and I love it dearly (it makes my
wife jealous). I also have an old Seatrend 8.6 (~90l) which weighs as
much as the Xantos! I have demoed many of the F2 Axxis boards and I
like them, too. I think that F2 has the "edge," at least for the
moment.
-Jonathan.
USWA Member #US233
Boards: Old Seatrends, F2 Xantos 295 II and Mistral One Design
Sails: Waddell (Still!)
Spars: Fiberspar
______________________________________________________________________
| Jonathan M. Richardson | http://world.std.com/~jthan |
| Physicist and Windsurfer | Email: jt...@world.std.com |
______________________________________________________________________
Elevaytor
this has been an interesting thread....I've always thought that mistral,
f2, bic, fanatic made relatively tough and long-lasting boards.....guess I
was wrong...I'll probably be wary of mistrals(i used to have one and
noticed it getting a little soft in the nose area....not a problem...but
still
Mikal Todd
N.B
Andrew - Note the use of the word "some" I didn`t say your mate was a
dick, some people do get defective kit, of course this happens in
every aspect of life,(cars, T.V`s etc) if you would read the message
properly you would notice I wasn`t implying anything about yer mate.
A mate of mine has wrecked so much kit and complained every time. He
has one of those HiFly 265 RX boards and weighs 13 stone. In 45 knots
of wind (I couldn`t even sail in that!) he made a massive crack in
the nose after a huge catapult. He admitted to us it was his fault,
however the cheeky git then tried a warranty claim! Not to mention
the 2 Fiberspar reflex masts he snapped (his own fault again,yet he
claimed) and he even snapped a heavy duty glass mast. He also snaps
booms and the only item that is strong enough NEVER to break is his
MK series 6 boom , which on this basis, I would advise to ANYONE! In
fact his nickname is "the destroyer" and these warranty claims make a
mockery of us honest windsurfers.
I like all windsurfers, few are 'dicks', but some have a bad day out
and come on the 'net for a good old complain session and its hard to
know who tells the truth and who is pissed off.
Dave Crabbe
>
Thanks for all the replies to the Mistral saga ... I don't like what
I'veread from owners of Mistral. I am very disappointed in the longevity
of my Screamer and unless Mistral does something (I just wrote
them a long e-mail) I won't be purchasing another Mistral product.
Dave Crabbe
Whoops .. last reply got prematurely sent.
Yeah, I won't buy another mistral product unless
Mistral does something under warranty.
I'd look at the F2 Ride 277. It is 100L board and
has good reviews.
Dave
Ian G
I purchased a Mistral XLE 278 in October 97 - this board is promoted as a
lightweight free ride version of the Screamer 278. I have used this board
predominantly as a slalom board. It has developed soft patches under my
front feet as well as a hairline crack in the ASA skin behind one of my my
heels.
The board is being replaced under warranty and I intend on selling the
replacement on consignment. I am extremely disappointed with the quality
of this board. I can't believe Mistral's claim that this design is suited
to free ride treatment.
It would be useful if the likes of the Windsurfing Magazine did a few
follow ups on the longevity of some of the boards they promote as their
recommended choices.
Jeff Roberts
In rec.windsurfing Carl Edgar <ca...@iplbath.com.remove> wrote:
> Hold on Tom,
> The sample of people with Mistral problems in this NG is fairly small. I've
> owned umpteen Mistrals (including an XLE 268) and not had the slightest
> problems. However I've had an F2 delam on me and two Fanatics, one of which
> split and the other snapped.
Well, the sample may be small, but my NEW 268 XLE is showing signs of
delaminating in front of the mast track. This board is two months old and
has not been abused. I will probably send it back next month. I love
the board, but if it won't last, I won't buy another one.
Jeff
Steven Swann
"Carl Edgar" <ca...@iplbath.com.remove> wrote:
>Hold on Tom,
>
>The sample of people with Mistral problems in this NG is fairly small. I've
>owned umpteen Mistrals (including an XLE 268) and not had the slightest
>problems. However I've had an F2 delam on me and two Fanatics, one of which
>split and the other snapped.
>
>with just a few screatches.
>
>I have heard that the F2 Axxis 262/272 range has had problems with the fin
>box type mast track.
>
>Mistral, Fanatic and F2 are all big successful manufacturers and do not
>make crap if you do get a dodgy board this should be covered by warranty.
>
Seconded.
For what its worth - a mate of mine WAS the most rabid, one eyed F2 man -
not any more. He too thought that because Bjoern wins on them, they must
be faster (personally, I reckon Bjoern would win on a log!) Anyway, back
to my mate. Firstly, his WC 280 split, then the replacement 280 Aerodyne
(spelling?) hollow board split, then to top it all off, his brand new '97
275 WC went soft under the front straps and developed lots of hairline
cracks there. Before anyone accuses him of misuse, he is THE most
conservative sailor, who never jumps and always looks after his kit. Now
he sails Seatrend.
Another mate snapped in half his brand new F2 255 Wave on the first
outing, and on the first chop hop!
What this proves is that you can get a bad one, regardless of the make.
I just wonder how many hundreds of thousands of Mistral (and F2 for that
matter) boards around the world are giving sterling service (like my
Energizer & Electron)?
Take the rental fleets in Maui for example, thousands of Mistrals and F2s
getting absolutely caned day in, day out, yet the rental companies still
buy them.
Cold comfort to someone who is crapped off that their expensive piece of
plastic just went soft, but true, nevertheless. I guess that is what
warranties are for.
SS.
Jason
All this talk about F2's bums me out because I just bought two new
ones...and now I am hoping they last...
sla...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
I had the F2 Sunset Slalom in the early 90's. A great board at the
time (probably quite enjoyable even today) and a very solid
construction. Got the Mistral Screamer II last year. It was a fun
board to ride, but it had a leak on the seam so I returned it. The
Mistral guys were dragging their feet on my warranty claim, so my
dealer gave me a store credit and I've got the F2 Ride. It looks to be
very solid construction and it is significantly lighter than the
Mistral. Although didn't have a chance to test it extensively (Florida
sucks during summer) it seems to have a very smooth ride (the name
says everything), it is fast like hell, but it needs to be jibed more
aggressively than the Screamer. BTW, before I've got it I searched
Deja News and there are no many complaints about F2's. Go for it!
Slalom
Allan MacKinnon
Ivars Kirsteins wrote:
>
> My F2 Xantos 295 is virtually bullet proof... I've dropped it and
> dragged it over rocks without scarcely a scratch!!
Same here. I have a hard to navigate stairwell
into my apartment and have dinged the board a few
times on the bricks. No problems -- the skin
on the Xantos is tough!
--
Allan MacKinnon
alla...@blueprint.com
Boston, MA - 617/424-0615
Volker Wedemeier
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Dez Hughes wrote:
> Wolfgang Soergel <wsoe...@nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
>
>
> >It is still imho not acceptable that boards get soft after short usage
> >but this is where twe seem to be headed, with people accepting that
> >some piece of plastic won't last longer han 2 years or so.
>
> Especially after having forked out $1300 US or so for them.
> Look on the bright side though, Mistral owners can probably repair
> boards better than F2 owners!
Well, come on! Don't exaggerate!
From what I've seen, it might be that the F2's are a bit tougher than the
Mistrals, but it's not that much!
I have a 1993 Mistral Explosion CHS (the CHS construction is the medium
light construction of their CGI (solid and heaviest), CHS (medium) and XR
(light and fragile) constructions) and it has taken quite some abuse.
Ok, it is pretty prone to getting dings in the deck and underwater part
of the hull. Put it down a bit harder on a sharp stone and you have a
ding in the board. Lean over the board with the harness hook under you
and you will make small depressions in the board. I don't like this
behaviour of the board much, but then this doesn't cause any real damage.
On the other hand, the board has taken some severe bashing. Inlcuding
three really bad hits with the boom to the nose, where I thought each
time, that the nose _must_ have broken right off! But when I looked, it
was still there, no split seam or any open cracks! The material in the
nose is a bit softer now and after the last boom hit there is a slight
fold in the outer hull, but no holes or anything that really matters.
Also, even though I've jumped the board (well, not too severely, though -
I am not too good at high jumps yet) and though I am pretty heavy (92
kg), the deck in the footpad area is not soft at all, nor has the board
delaminated anywhere. Also the finbox has survived many bad fin-ground
contacts without the slightest sign of damage.
So, after 4 years of usage, the board is still absolutely fine except for
several small dings in the deck which are only cosmetic. I don't know, if
an F2 board would have taken the same amount of abuse. They seem to have
a harder hull, making them less prone to dings, but often, the harder
something is, the sooner it breaks (things that don't bend, break).
Ok doesn't need to be and I've not yet really put this to the test - only
used F2 boards during my vacations and nothing bad happened there.
So, all I can say is that Mistral boards are probably softer (at least in
terms of dings) than they should be and I don't like to handle boards
like raw eggs much (as I mostly do with my Explosion, even though, the
older it gets the less careful I become :-))) ), the Mistrals are not
as weak as this discussion seems to indicate. (At least the weren't in
1993, don't know about the new ones.)
Anyway, if some of you Mistral guys read this, it probably couldn't hurt,
if you made your boards a bit tougher again. (But then, they probably aim
their boards at the usual yuppie, who buys a new (Mistral) board every year
anyway.)
Still, in spite of all that, I really love the Explosion. It's damn fast -
well, doesn't turn too well, though (but once you get used to it, it's
ok after all) - but it planes early and also slogs me home compfortably
if necessary.
Hang loose,
Volker
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply, please delete 'spamex.' from the e-mail adress!
Um zu antworten, bitte 'spamex.' aus der E-Mail Adresse loeschen!
sla...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
I guess it depends what you like and what not. Based on Volkers
description (+ a recent bad experience with a Mistral board and their
customer support) I will not invest even a dime into anything with the
m' logo on it. For 1300$ I expect a better piece of plastic.
Slalom