Non-articulating boom head
JSTNG
Wave Pro 460 combo. Have settled on aluminum. Looking at the WH Makai
Slalom which seems to have a pretty high strength+comfort/cost
coefficient.... = value. But am concerned about the non-articulating
head. My Power Tapers have this and seem to 'fit' (read: 'secure
better to') the mast better than my older Chinooks and NPs which had
the one-piece molded front end.
My question to the group: Are there any inherent disadvantages
associated with a non-articulating head? Is there point loading on the
mast that would not occur with an articulating head? Assuming a 5
degree off perpendicular attitude, is this eccentric load significant
to cause fatigue over the long term? (As a rule, I use a mast
protector.)
I have also heard recently that energy can be lost in a weak boom to
mast connection. Could the non-articulating head be a potential
culprit in this kind of energy loss?
Hugh
Chris
to me (but I'm only and advanced-intermediate sailor, with 3-4 years
experience).
I recently bought a big HPL carbon race boom to replace an equivalent
Chinook carbon boom that failed and had to go to the shop for repairs.
In many ways I found the HPL superior, including the articulating head.
Where it was inferior was in the gauge of line they used in their mast
clamp. They used a lighter line than Chinook and a single strand.
Chinook uses a heavier line with two purchases (doubled up). I
find the lighter HPL line frays quickly in the mast clamp cleat and I
have to replace it often. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever had
to replace the mast clamp line on a chinook boom.
I can't imagine anybody would argue that an articulating head is not
superior to a non-articulating head. But I still trust chinook heads
more because they use heavier line and double it up with two purchases.
My point is that an articulating head makes good sense but can be
comprimised by a poor implementation such as HPL's. But all
else being equal, I'd think an articulating head would be superior.
JSTNG <js...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5076920b.02102...@posting.google.com...
Paul K.
You're suppose to do it only once, when adjusting the length of this line.
Paul
WARDOG
Chris wrote:
> Where it was inferior was in the gauge of line they used in their mast
> clamp.
This issue has been beat up here scores of times before.
The OEM head allows for too much throw if you cleat it off when it's
wide open. This chews the line up and stretches it.
Swing it up a little before cleating it off...OR,
"look ma, NO ROPE"!...;-)
http://www.surfingsports.com/streamlined_strap_on.asp
http://www.surfingsports.com/product.asp?prod=hpl_boom_head
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hpl_boom_head1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hpl_boom_head2.jpg
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
WARDOG
I've sold lots of Windsurfing Hawaii Makai aluminum and carbon booms...
Not one problem, thus far...
Even though it doesn't articulate, per se, it does offer some flexure
because of the material and design of the "legs" that connect the head
to the mast clamp door mechanism:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wh_boomhead1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wh_boomhead2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wh_boomhead3.jpg
I don't think significant point loading would occur, unless you had an
abnormaly high boom cutout and rigged it at the top...
The fact that you use a mast protector, makes this essentially a mute
issue.
> > I have also heard recently that energy can be lost in a weak boom to
> > mast connection. Could the non-articulating head be a potential
> > culprit in this kind of energy loss?
You shouldn't worry about this since you have "Have settled on
aluminum". Not to worry, the aluminum Makai is a stiff mofo...
stiffer than some of the competition's carbons...
BUT, the carbon Makai is freakin' solid as a rock...a real piece of
work...
Feels close to the carbon HPL with the Streamlined Strap On in
stiffness: http://www.surfingsports.com/streamlined_strap_on.asp
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
Dan Weiss
"Chris" <Ch...@inet.net> wrote in message
news:xisv9.995$V15.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> SNIP>
> I can't imagine anybody would argue that an articulating head is not
> superior to a non-articulating head. But I still trust chinook heads
> more because they use heavier line and double it up with two purchases.
>
> My point is that an articulating head makes good sense but can be
> comprimised by a poor implementation such as HPL's. But all
> else being equal, I'd think an articulating head would be superior.
>
Chris, articulating boom heads are not always the best option for
performance as the leach of the sail tends to respond radically to the up
and down motion of a moving boom end. While it appears from a sailor's own
perspective that the clew remains stable, if you watch a 2 sailors with the
only difference between them articulating versus fixed boom heads, the
difference is readily observable. When the sailor with the articulating
head sits down in the harness the leach tensions too early. When that rider
reduced harness line pressure the leach opens up suddenly. The sailor with
a fixed boom head experiences less of this although he is not altogether
immune since all booms flex up and down under rider load.
Whether this makes any difference I can only think it does, especially with
bigger sails and flat water, where slight differences in performance are
magnified.
For all other conditions and applications I'd vote for articulating, but I
don't shop for that particular point myself.
-Dan
p
Does the new replacement boom head from HPL articulate? If so, where?
Is it visible in the pictures? Does the front of the boom simply slide
against the yellow rubber rings?
WARDOG
Yes, it can/does articulate (if you want it to)...these images should
illuminate the actual mechanism for you...
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hpl_boomhead1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hpl_boomhead1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hpl_boomhead1.jpg
I've got mine tightened pretty tight, so it does not move...
Some customers have the "angle of the dangle" of the boom head adjusted
for the top of their sail's boom cutout so that there is no point
loading on their mast(s) on the jumbo sails...
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
Juri Munkki
>This issue has been beat up here scores of times before.
>The OEM head allows for too much throw if you cleat it off when it's
>wide open. This chews the line up and stretches it.
>Swing it up a little before cleating it off...OR,
>"look ma, NO ROPE"!...;-)
North used to have boom heads without any rope, but I think the
current ones with a bit of rope are superior. I guess the HPL boom
head is one of those things you have to see to really understand.
Based on the photos and what people say, I haven't really understood
what's so revolutionary about it.
As for rope adjustments...I came up with this trick this summer:
One of the North boom head cleats was a bit tight. What happened
was that I would adjust it and the boom would be secure, but after
a bit of sailing, the boom would start to slide down again. The
rope had ended up deeper in the cleat and was really hard to dislodge.
I couldn't make it permanently tight enough and at the same time
close it around the boom area when freshly adjusted.
So...Instead of adjusting the rope for the boom area, I adjusted it
for a position higher up in the mast. Once left there for a little
while, I was able to close the clamp on the boom area and the rope
was properly cleated and the boom was tight.
Adding a wide ring made out of mountain bike inner tube around the
wrap-around part also made a world of difference in preventing the
boom from sliding down. All my booms now have the rubber added to
them.
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.
Jsmin
more powerful. It may have increased tension at the foot of the sail.
The head unit was also less bulky. Didn't seem like a real big deal.
Jsmin
WARDOG
Juri Munkki wrote:
> North used to have boom heads without any rope
I used to have a big pile of broken ones...
Stainless release pins working on aluminum boom tubes in salt water...
I think I broke 5 pairs one Summer...
> > Based on the photos and what people say, I haven't really understood
> > what's so revolutionary about it.
Really? The frame is metal for one thing...ABS plastic twists and
deforms...rope stretches...
The tendon material that Dave Dominy uses has withstood the test of
time...first skateboard truck bushings, then universals, and now this...
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
I'm wondering if Juri is talking about the std. HPL plastic boom head, vs the
new Dave Dominy Streamlined design that is cast aluminum with the same material
around the front boom tube as is used in the bomb-proof Streamlined Tendon joint.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Juri Munkki
>> > Based on the photos and what people say, I haven't really understood
>> > what's so revolutionary about it.
>
>Really? The frame is metal for one thing...ABS plastic twists and
>deforms...rope stretches...
>The tendon material that Dave Dominy uses has withstood the test of
>time...first skateboard truck bushings, then universals, and now this...
I hope you were not insulted. Just because I don't undestand something
doesn't mean that there's nothing special about it. Seeing is believing,
as they say (I think).
I agree about the broken North boom heads. I haven't broken any of the
ones with the rope attachment and the last mechanical one I got is still
going strong too. I haven't broken any boom tubes though (just bent one
set slightly last summer).
WARDOG
Dunno...when he said "revolutionary" I assumed he was referring to the
Streamlined...especially since I have several pics up...
I guess we can't assume everyone's news servers are up to the minute ,
though...
p.s. Did *board ever get the screwdriver?
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
Michael Chare
> You're suppose to do it only once, when adjusting the length of this line.
But then if you never loosen it, there is a chance that the rope will become
corroded to the clamp as has happened with mine.
Also the clamp stopped articulating. When I took it apart the plastic surfaces
were quite rough maybe due to sand or silt in the water that I sail in. I tried
to smooth the roughness with emery cloth. I greased the moving parts before I
assembled them, but to ensure that the clamp articulates I had to leave the
bolts slightly loose. I used some Locktite so hopefully the nuts will stay on
Michael Chare
WARDOG
Juri Munkki wrote:
> I hope you were not insulted
Hi Juri,
No, absolutely not! I hope you didn't think that I was condescending...
Don't know if you caught the bit from Bruce Peterson when he says that
this boom head makes head to head testing unbalanced, if one sailor has
it, and the other does not...additionally, in the interview with Dave
Dominy, there is a schpiel about it being equivalent to an extra 5
kts...I haven't quantified it, but it does increase the rig
efficiency...this is the first aftermarket boom head that I know
about...
p.s. I guess your news server is fresh and alive...;-)
p.p.s. Keep the Hypersonic reports coming...and more pics!!!
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
Gerry
So which boom would you recommend in the six foot body for freeride or
waves, the Hawaiian Proline with the streamline head or the Carbon Makai?
Thanks
Gerry
"WARDOG" <moon...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3DBE9EF1...@cox.net...:.
> You shouldn't this Not to worry, the aluminum Makai is a stiff mofo...
WARDOG
Let's run the numbers...here we go...size first...
HPL Carbon FreeRide: 156cm-217cm MSRP $515
Streamlined Strap On boom head $119 MSRP
http://www.surfingsports.com/HawaiianProLine.asp
WH Carbon Makai: 150cm-210cm MSRP $480
WH Carbon Makai: 180cm-240cm MSRP $520
http://www.surfingsports.com/product.asp?prod=wsh_00811
WH will also have 220cm-280cm Carbons soon...
If you have skinny masts or Z-Tapers, I'd lean towards the WH...
You could use the molded mast shim, but that kinda defeats the purpose,
IMO...Dave Dominy will have a boom head for skinnies eventually...
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
dan sawyer
How does it effect the mast?
How does it effect the sail?
Dan
WARDOG
In simplistic terms, it just provides a better connection for transfer
of energy between the sail rig, sailor and board.
The analogy that I use is of a car's steering column or suspension...
A flexy aluminum boom, fully extended is not going to provide a very
efficient energy transfer...whereas, a stiff carbon boom with a tightly
integrated connection to the mast, will.
Simple questions...simple answer...
WARDOG
http://surfingsports.com
Ellen Faller
I think we all owe you thanks on that one.
Ellen
Juri Munkki
>p.p.s. Keep the Hypersonic reports coming...and more pics!!!
Those might have to wait a bit. I hope I will have a chance to sail
the HS a few more times, but the +6C water temperature will probably
keep me from doing much on the water photography this year. Air temperature
is usually even lower and with the wind chill, it's below freezing.
I expected to get a lot more photos in September. I think this was
the worst September and October ever for windsurfing in this area.
I'm keeping my eyes open for travel opportunities to Egypt or the Canary
Islands, but knowing myself, I'm not very likely to go anywhere.
We have another cold front coming this way now, but it might be warm
enough to sail again next week.
People were ice sailing on the lakes here last week.
Steven Slaby
> I expected to get a lot more photos in September. I think this was
> the worst September and October ever for windsurfing in this area.
Tell me about it! Fall is normally good for 2-4 sessions a week but I have
only managed to hit the water 4 times this month...I hope someone
somewhere is getting all the wind that has been missing around here.
In fact, its been pretty sad since early August; no wonder I bought a
catamaran to get out and have some fun on the ultra lightwind days.
Steve.
--
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Mike F
Mike \m/
"Juri Munkki" <jmu...@cc.hut.fi> wrote
Gary Wood
Rooster and Stevenson, the pressures are pretty stacked and its very
windy in east Vancouver (WA).
However, it's also about 40 degrees in the gorge (single digits
Celcius), and the wind chill must be below freezing. I cancelled my
"board meeting" today in hopes of some warmer temps on the weekend.
Water is still a balmy 57F, so there's still time to play...
Gary
Jay Halford
"Gary Wood" <gw...@eli.net> wrote in message
news:3DC06A0B...@eli.net...
Mike F
east we're busting low temp records every night ... which explains the east
winds. Last night's low record was shattered before West Wing ended; we're
busting records by more than 10 degrees -- already by far the coldest temps
I've seen this century out here but still 30 degrees above a REAL January
winter out here. But even before it got cold just two days ago, this has
struck me as the calmest fall I've ever seen in the Gorge. Sept and Oct
often rip; one bud who keeps records said Sept blew 28 days one year, and a
big sail to him is a 5.5. Another bud who blew up his rib cage looping with
no rib armor has missed only a couple of good days this fall. I could have
gotten my shoulder surgery two months ago with very little loss of shred
time, and gotten a two-month head start next summer. Ya just never know.
Mike \m/
"Jay Halford" <Hal...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:r7cw9.33047$wG.9...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
JSTNG
Florida panhandle in September than we had in the previous two years
combined. Think we we had a dozen seshable days during that month
which was totally unprecedented.
So maybe your loss is our gain. But as we had 0 days in October, maybe
not.
Hugh
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Steven Slaby) wrote in message news:<app4g1$qrg$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>...