Big sails how much difference ?
Pengorse
I have a Bic Techno 283 for lighter wind playing (not racing) and a
7.2 Diablo and a 7.5 6 camber raceboard sail, how much difference
/benefit will I notice if I go out and get a 8.5 or 9m sail ? ?
gar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
8.0m and 9.4m with the board.
Gareth
In article <3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
Richard Shirey
two camber sail. I use a 42cm True Ames Blade Weed fin with it. I weight
190 lbs and need about 12mph wind to get onto a plane. The sail size makes
jibbing more effort but control is good even in the gusts. I would get the
44 or 46 cm weed fin if I had to do it over again as I bought the 42 as a
compromise for my 7.4M vs 9.3M sails, but now I only use the Tiga with the
9.3.
--
Richard
Huntington Beach, CA
"Pengorse" <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Frank Weston
sail is no exception. In theoretical terms, going from a 7.5 to a 9 might
decrease your windspeed planing threshold by about 8%. So, if you start to
plane in 11 kts with your 7.5, you might start to plane at about 10.1 kts
with a 9.0. I say "might", because there are other factors involved such as
efficiencies, and possibly the requirement for a bigger fin in order to make
full use of the potential of a 9.0. The real improvement could be less.
So, the benefit is a theoretical decrease of planing threshold of about 0.9
kts of windspeed. What's the downside? First, you'll probably need a
bigger mast. Your 7.5 probably rigs on a 460 with a long extension. A 9.0
is probably going to need a 490 or maybe a 520. Next, you'll probably need
a bigger and stiffer boom. If a 7.5 is currently your largest sail, chances
are your boom won't work on a 9.0. As mentioned before, you might need a
bigger fin. Finally, a 9.0 is going to be heavier, harder to handle, harder
to uphaul, harder to waterstart, and in general, more work to sail. It may
even be a little too big for your board.
Bottom line: It will cost you a sail, a mast, a boom, and probably a fin to
plane in 0.9 kts less wind. Is it worth it to you? If you race, the answer
is probably yes. Otherwise, it depends on your enthusiasm/wallet size
ratio.
Frank Weston
"Pengorse" <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
Charles Ivey
I agree that theoretically you are probably correct, but there is another
factor. The whole issue of launching a board onto a plane (once there it is
easier to stay on plane of course) is, in my mind, a bigger factor. The
early planing question comes down, simplistically, to the issue of will a
sail hold your weight off the board as you hang down, while at the same time
you shove the board forward with a pump and with leg action. In this case,
there can be a big difference in a 7.5 and a 9.0. Just the fact that the
larger 9.0 reacts more slowly means you might have enough time to get the
board going when a 7.5 will not allow you to get into that balanced position
long enough. I know for me there is more than a knot or fraction of a knot
difference in the two sizes because with the larger sails I can force the
board up and onto the plane is less wind and once there can pump on up to
enough apparent wind to keep going (at least a good part of the time.) The
pumping with the smaller sail that would achieve the same results would wear
me out.
So I agree with you in a static world, but have a hunch that the dynamic
world favors the larger sail a bit more than the percentages you mention.
Do you agree or do you think I am fooling myself? Or, just ask a heavier
person who is afraid, not able, or has been unsuccessful with a smaller sail
right on the threshold of planing to get launched.
CI
"Frank Weston" <fr...@weston-american.com> wrote in message
news:u6o7ou2...@corp.supernews.com...
VA11
size for the board (use a 52cm race fin - rec. Curtis CR15 52cm). Though I
do not have the specific numbers to back it up, I would say that the
threshold jump was better between 7.4 and 9.0 for me than 1 knot. The 9.0
got going in about 11knots and the 7.4 required more like 14 (though I used
smaller fin with the 7.4). I think the addition of a sail like the 9.3
Gaastra GTX would greatly improve your time on the water. Just on a guess -
I suspect that your 7.5 is not well suited to the board - what more can you
tell us about it?
Regards,
Sam Franck
Gaastra/AHD/FS/Curtis Fins
"Pengorse" <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
Dan Weiss
and ignoring how much increased planing TIME one might gain, and also by
forgetting to include the effect of pumping. In short, pumping adds a huge
measure of power (est. 2x aspect ration) to get going and break onto a
plane. If the winds are typical US, then a lot more time is spent at ten
and fewer knots than above ten. It might be that by pumping, Pengorse can
plane in say, seven or eight knots (probably eight or nine) and get going
that much sooner and keep planing in lulls that might otherwise stop him in
his 7.5 tracks.
The tradeoff is real, but not as dire as Frank might have you believe. If
you can increase your planing time by merely 25% you likely will conclude
the larger sail a bargain. And, all the new spars you buy you can use on
even larger stuff if the mood ever strikes. Go big and have fun.
--
Dan
"Frank Weston" <fr...@weston-american.com> wrote in message
news:u6o7ou2...@corp.supernews.com...
Marc Rosen
and M_D
Marc
Frank Weston
When you get into pumping you open a whole new can of worms. How much
increased power you can get from pumping depends on a lot more than just
sail size. It depends greatly on technique, strength, and the type of
equipment in use. A smaller sail pumped at at faster rate by a stronger
sailor using better technique will get onto a plane way sooner than a bigger
sail in the hands of a weaker, less skillful sailor.
Because the effectiveness of pumping depends so much on the sailor and on
the other gear in use, I did not include it in my discussion. Sam, who is
young and strong and skillful may indeed be able to get more than an 0.9 kt
gain going from a 7.5 sail to a 9.0 sail. But, he gets that gain, from his
ability to use the increased sail size, not from the sail size per se. If
we are going to claim more than the theoretical benefits associated with an
increase in sail size, why not claim that using a bigger sail will make us
all just like Kevin Pritchard? Will it?
Will a bigger sail really buy that much more time on the water? Maybe, but
only if you drive to the beach when the wind is oscillating between 9 and 10
knots and camp all day waiting for just the right conditions. Less than 9
and no one sails. More than 10 and everyone sails on a 7.5. To really get
more time on the water, maybe it's better to save the cost of a sail, a
mast, a boom, and a fin and spend the money on a week in the Carribean where
5.0 wind is guaranteed. For the money I've spent on big sails and rigs, I
could be living in Bonaire for a year.
Frank Weston
Will Vasquez
pumping and building boardspeed - but you need the big sail area to keep
that board speed up. I like the "pumpability" of the bigger wing vs the
smaller wing when it comes to light-air.
Fins really come into play here- they're critical right? But I've had a
number of experiences where the longer fin has helped with coming up
onto a slow plane - but has been a bear to handle at speed, in the open
ocean (where you're board rocks side to side and jumps over small
swell).
But that's another thread... ;) I'm really curious to see how that all
plays out on the 100CM START.
Wardog has a 70cm True Ames Formula fin which we will try out asap. -
but I also have that 53cm race fin - so it will be interesting to see
what I prefer.
Take it easy.
-Will-
Janeandbrian94
large sail alone is enough. I own a 1999 Wind Wing 10 Race. It weighs a lot,
but, it catches way more wind than my Aerotech 7.5 1999 Slalom, which is my
next smallest, and favorite sail. I used to sail a Techno 283. Now my lightest
wind board is a wood SB Formula 155. A Techno 273 has replaced my medium wind
2 83 And I have a Bic Saxo in case it really blows.
The large sail requires more space, more physical exertion, more boom, more
mast. Its a very big commitment, but you do catch alot more wind . The power
of a 10 is pretty impressive.
Peace,
Brian Pearson
Ebbtide Windsurfing
Montgomeryville, PA
215 368-9095
Dave
> Bottom line: It will cost you a sail, a mast, a boom, and probably a fin to
> plane in 0.9 kts less wind. Is it worth it to you? If you race, the answer
> is probably yes. Otherwise, it depends on your enthusiasm/wallet size
> ratio.
>
I'm with you Frank. My biggest sail right now is a 6.8. Planing and pointing high/low in
marginal winds is of marginal appeal to me. I'd rather spend that time playing with the
kids. That being said, I will probably get a Start this year for teaching the critters
and occasional friend. It'll be nice to not to have to inflate the Windglider this
spring.
Dave in Charlotte.
Chris Kuryllo
but
> only if you drive to the beach when the wind is oscillating between 9 and
10
> knots and camp all day waiting for just the right conditions. Less than 9
> and no one sails. More than 10 and everyone sails on a 7.5.
Wind is never that stable and 9.0 versus 7.5 makes a lot of difference to me
in gusty wind. After I bought a 9.0, I've got lots more TOW, just because
now I go out in those 7.5 stop-and-go conditions. Before that I used to
consider those conditions nonsailable.
> To really get
> more time on the water, maybe it's better to save the cost of a sail, a
> mast, a boom, and a fin and spend the money on a week in the Carribean
where
> 5.0 wind is guaranteed. For the money I've spent on big sails and rigs, I
> could be living in Bonaire for a year.
Even if it's true, after a year, you have no money and no job. Anyway, I
don't think this money will be enough for a family of 4.
I guess different people have different experiences with big sails. How much
difference a big sail will make to somebody depends on his/her board and
local sailing conditions. You need a big board with a long fin to a big
sail. A Bic Techno 283, mentioned in the original post, should do the job.
Chris
Dan Weiss
same way. Until I spent time shortboarding on the big stuff. Like many
here know, sailing a 95cm board and a 10.9 is just as "powered" as a 6.8.
The feel is the same, you carve turns, go super fast and you can even jump,
though it's hardly a 260 and 5.0. Don't say no, say go.
--
Dan
"Dave" <wnd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3C6C9A94...@bellsouth.net...
Derek Cohen
chose to use a 8.5 Retro on a Kinetic 72. I rigged up a 9.5 Retro on my Free
Formula 138. We both relied on pumping the sails and boards. At this wind
speed I planed just a tad earlier than John but, once planing, his board
speed was easily the same if not quicker, and he went up wind as well as I.
I felt at the time that I would have gone faster on my own 8.5 Retro and
that I also probably could have planed as early as the 9.5 sail. In other
words, at this wind speed there was little advantage in the bigger sail
(which was heavier, more cumbersome with iyts longer boom length, and had
more drag in comparison). However, the wind did drop to 7 - 8 knots and John
began to struggle to get onto and to stay on the plane. I, on the other
hand, hardly noticed the change in conditions and just kept sailing through
the holes.
Size for size, there is little doubt that the larger sail is more powerful
and that it will do the trick at the lower wind speed threshold. The bottom
line is that you've got to determine what that threshold is for you and
choose your sail size accordingly. Above this threshold (at a higher wind
speed), the larger size loses much of its advantage over the smaller sail.
Other factors are introduced, such as increased sail drag through the air
and the effect the weight and position of the mast track has on the board's
waterline.
Just my .02
Regards
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)
Pengorse <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
VA11
1. It is not all about pumping. More sail area gets you moving sooner, but
also pushes harder once you are there. If a certain kit needs 10 knots of
boat speed to plane and goes 12knots with a 7.5 and 16 knots with a 9.0, the
apparent wind is substantially better on the 9.0 and therefore so is the
planing time through the holes. We may not all pump, but we do all trick
our gear into getting on a plane one way or another - rarely does one stand
on the board pointed at 90 degrees to the wind and wait for a gust to push
you onto a plane. We bear off, crounch down, etc to manipulate power into
the rig to get it going.
2. Don't forget also that the sail design itself makes difference. Here,
we are talking about a 7.2 Diablo, which has pretty good top end and
stability, but not really a gutsy sail. By comparison, a 7.0 freestyle
sail like the Gaastra Echo, with a draft back, "get up an get going" desing
would probably plane noticably sooner. The 7.5 is a 6 cam "race-board"
sail, which is probably a horse with the low end pull, but may be too
inefficient (aerodynamic) to get the board to planing speed without added
effort. As many have noticed - the wider and more powerful the boards, the
less "pocket" type power we need (want) in our sails.
The season I rode a Techno the 9.0 was my primary sail on it. I suspect it
is worth it to buy - but fortunately there are often opportunities to find
out before you do. Take advantage of a demo day or rental rig and make the
call eh?
Sam
"Chris Kuryllo" <kury...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:dj0b8.5045$Vba....@news2.bloor.is...
Tom O'B
"Pengorse" <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6b9fa4...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
Tom O'B
OK, I have 9.5 and 7.5 (which is a bit more of a gap) and I have to say that
there is a HUGE difference between sailing performance on these two sails.
There are MANY, MANY days when I plane all day on my 9.5 and I would slog
all day on my 7.5.
The difference is much greater than .9 kts of wind. In anything under 18
knots I would never rig the 7.5. I would spend way too much time slogging.
Even if the theoretical difference is .9 kts, what happens when you are
sailing is that the 9.5 gets you going sooner, makes you go faster, allows
you to plane thru jibes, and carries you thru holes when the 7.5 will leave
you standing there holding the booms.
Tom - Chicago
"Frank Weston" <fr...@weston-american.com> wrote in message
news:u6o7ou2...@corp.supernews.com...
Tom O'B
The only proof here is that he is a better sailor that you are.
At 10 kts, a 9.5 M retro will be faster than an 8.5 M retro. 10 knots is
not even close to approaching the point where the drag of the 9.5 will be a
disadvantage. I think that happens closer to 17 or 18 knots.
Anyway, at 10 kts you need to be on a bigger board!
Tom - Chicago
"Derek Cohen" <dco...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message
news:a4id3t$o54$1...@yeppa.connect.com.au...
Will Vasquez
Your 9.5 is probably not rigged for max speed - are you using
extensions? they increase drag - and don't turn puffs of wind into
boardspeed as designed.
If you're using either a long mast extension or especially a boom
extension - or a boom that is not super-stiff, the gusts will "bag-out"
your sail instead of generating more board speed.
Was he using an adjustable outhaul (AO)?? How was your kit rigged -
neg. outhaul etc..??
Just wondering what the "other components" of your kit vs his kit were
to see if we can get to the bottom of this "on-the-water" observance.
L8t,
-Will-
(Who is almost out-a-here)....
Dan Weiss
and then assume that the variables are maximized. Anything else is akin to
saying a bigger engine isn't more usefully powerful because it takes a
skilled driver to transmit that power to the road. Accepted, but let's get
beyond that.
I was thinking a bit about this and offer this explanation: getting onto a
plane isn't the point. Rather, how the board and rig feel and what they can
do when on a plane might be a better measure. Between two of the same sails
but each in different sizes, the larger one will be in its optimal wind
range at a lower wind speed than a smaller sail. The two ranges will
overlap a good deal, and the larger size will top out at a lower speed than
the smaller. In choosing a sail size the question isn't whether the board
will plane up a moment earlier but rather will it provide good power and
speed -enough to truly get high performance enjoyment out of the session.
Compare adjoining sizes, say 9.3 and 9.8. One person alternating between
both sails on a board and fin combination suitable for both sizes will be
powered up much sooner on the 9.8, particularly in the lulls. Just like
racing, the winner isn't usually the one who is faster in the gusts but
rather is faster in the lulls. Falling off a plane sucks for recreational
sailors, too, but the larger sail provides meaningful power to go upwind and
downwind and where ever one wants at a lower wind speed. The power zone is
in play much more of the time -especially if one factors in the fractional
time difference (your assertion) in plane-up-ability. The entire experience
is greatly enhanced.
Large sails aren't for everyone. They are harder to throw around like a
wave sail, are comparatively difficult to waterstart and are heavier and
somewhat bulkier. And there is a point when new spars must be purchased. I
should add that the same applies for higher wind gear!
For the windsurfer who knows how to jibe reasonably consistently and how to
waterstart reasonably competently the larger sails make great pets. I
recommend picking one up at the pound and bringing it home. It won't soil
your rug and will make a wonderful play partner once you get to know it!
--
Dan
"Frank Weston" <fr...@weston-american.com> wrote in message
news:u6onldd...@corp.supernews.com...
Pengorse
Thanks for all the replies I think I'm tempted to go for the 9m
especially as the diablo 7.2 is happier when powered up rather than
just working or gusty, I do tend to pump a fair bit when I sail and I
think I have a reasonalble technique, may have to shop around for some
used kit, seems there is always plenty of season old race sails about
at good prices.
Pengorse
>I suspect that your 7.5 is not well suited to the board - what more can you
>tell us about it?
this is the 7.5 on the techno in 17knts
http://www.pengorse.co.uk/images/windsurf1.jpg
http://www.pengorse.co.uk/images/windsurf2.jpg
personally I find it a handfull as the wind gets up but then it is
very different to the diablo which I have happily used in 25knt winds
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Nice photos, but it looks like you aren't getting nearly enough twist in the top
of your
sail. Also your boom seems very low. The photos both look like you are really
sheeted out, almost like you are headed off into a jibe. Might just be the
photos,
but I think if you put more downhaul on your sail, and really got it sheeted in
and
down on the deck you would get alot more speed, and much easier handling.
As for the debate on how much more early planing performance you get with
larger rigs (7.5 vs 9.5) there is something very important that no one speaks
of.
Frank Weston uses big Gaastra Nitro 2 (3?) race sails, on a Formula board.
Tom O'Brien and Derek Cohen use Sailworks Retro Camless sails. These are
both for sure hi performance sails, but very much at opposite ends of the
spectrum
in terms of "static draft". The Retro can be tuned with an incredible amount of
static
draft if downhauled to the minimum. As the wind comes up an adjustable outhaul
(mentioned several times in the thread) can make an incredible difference in top
end speed. As the wind comes up, pull more outhaul to flatten the sail and make
it easier to handle and reduce the overall draft in the lower part of the sail.
The Gaastra Nitro 1,2,3) on the other hand is a top of the line race sail, with
a
much lower amount of "static draft" as it is designed to be used in racing, in
far more
wind that the Retro. The Nitro also responds well to "flattening" with an
adjustable outhaul to fine tune the draft in the sail as windspeed changes and
also as you change
courses (upwind you want the sail quite flat, downwind you want the sail about
as
full as it will go).
The latest Retro's are somewhat closer to a Race sail than some of the earlier
evolution's, but they still have more built in draft size for size, than a race
sail the
same size.
What I'm saying here is that what Frank gets with the Nitro as he increases in
size
is a bit different than what Derek finds with his Retro's.
Both sails are top of the line, but the design philosophy is quite different.
One is a rangy sail, with alot of emphasis on low end grunt, kinda like an
American
"muscle car". The other is made to work best in more wind and stability/top
speed are the primary emphasis. More like an Indy race car or a Formula I car.
So, if you look for last years "race sails" you may find that you don't get the
low end "grunt" you seem to be looking for. If you get something that can be
rigged with more overall draft, you may get better low end performance, but
unless you retune it for higher winds, you won't get quite the top end stability
and
speed.
But, to really take advantage of light wind performance you really need to get a
wider board.
The Techno is a great all around board, but early planing is not it's strong
side.
There are Formula boards and Free Ride Formula boards that are significantly
wider, plane alot earlier, and can easily be sailed in the same wind range as
your
Techno. But they plane much earlier, so will give you far more light wind
performance and time on the water, with the larger sail.
I suspect that since your smaller sail is a freeride type sail, it has more
draft,
and better light wind performance, for it's size, than your larger more race
oriented
sail.
Hope this helps,
Roger
VA11
I agree with Roger, though it does not look like what I imagined when you
said "Race-Board sail". You need more twist and less static draft on a more
powerful shortboard, even your relatively narrow Techno.
If you want an all out race sail, The Nitro's are wicked powerful - they
just don't depend on static draft to get that way. From your description of
what you are after, a 2 cam GTX or similar is probably a better bet. I am
not a fan of big camless sails, the wind just is never that steady when it
is that lite, but there are others who have had a lot of success with them.
Regards,
Sam
"Pengorse" <nospamp...@goingsurfin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c6d7069...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Bill Kline
Most of the Techno riders I hear from are very adamant about CurtisCR-15 52 to
58 being the biggest fin to use. Kurt Von Ruden was happy to smoke me up wind
one day on his 50 or 52, just to prove a point
I am baffled because I liked a 58 on mine (I was 213lbs then).
I have suspected 62 might work in light wind. We did experiment at Banana
River with 66 to 70. Any feedback?
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
bil...@gsport.com www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
dcohen
You're right about my Retro 9.5 (a "new" 2000 model) probably not being
rigged for speed. I bought it for those very light days and have really only
learned how to rig it accordingly. This involves a fairly tight leach and
very full sail (moderate down haul and moderate outhaul).
Any tips for a speed setup?
For your interest, the 9.5 is rigged (as is the 8.5) on a 490 Powerex (100%
carbon) with third piece (this is a bottom 33 cm carbon extension that has
the same bend characteristics as the mast - all as per Sailworks
instructions) with a short mast extension, and a carbon HPL 260 race boom. I
have an adjustable outhaul.
Today I sailed my 2002 Retro 8.5 in 10 - 15 kts, rigged it with max down
haul and a fair amount of outhaul - and just flew! I found, contrary to my
logic, that I went slower in the lighter stuff with a fuller sail. I have
also realised that I was setting my boom too low (chin height) for my FF 138
and raised it to eye height. This made a huge difference in reducing the
waterline and increasing the liveliness of the board. Lastly, I used a
smaller fin than usual (a 40cm weedfin as opposed to a 45cm weedfin - these
are needed when sailing at Safety Bay, which is south of Perth). The smaller
fin did not go up wind as well but off the wind it rocked!
Derek
Will Vasquez <wi...@biofolic.com> wrote in message
news:3C6D1755...@biofolic.com...
Pengorse
Cheers for the comments, the sail in the pics is hard work on the
techno as it specifically for a longboard, hence I got the diablo, but
I am thinking that I will get something around 9, either another
diablo or possibly something with a couple of cams to help with the
lulls
Tufarnorth
Please explain:" I found, contrary to my
logic, that I went slower in the lighter stuff with a fuller sail." This does
not make sense to me. Cindy
Steven Slaby
Rig a big sail very full to try and plane in very marginal winds will get
it planing but it will be slower due to its wind resitance (puts a bigger
drag into the wind). Rig with more downhaul, it will require more work to
plane, but once planing you will go faster since a flatter sail will have
less drag.
Same applies to fins; thicker fins such as the Curtis CR12 get you planing
sooner, but are not as fast. THe CR15 takes more effort to get planing
(for the same square inches) but is faster once planing.
Steve.
--
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is
that it has never tried to contact us" (Bill Watterson)
Will Vasquez
Sailworks....
-Will-
(Who is outtahere)
dcohen
Steve has explained it with the exact reasoning (and eloquence) that I would
have!
Derek
Steven Slaby <an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:a4m9oj$cle$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
Dan Weiss
deep, exhibit a draft forward foil. For most common angles of sail the
draft-farther-back profile makes for easier attachment, retention and
acceleration of airflow.
--
Dan
"dcohen" <dco...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message
news:a4mvm0$a2i$1...@yeppa.connect.com.au...
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
You are correct about the sail geometry, but we are talking Retro's (camless)
here, and while they follow the same geometry, they have more static draft
designed/sewn in when they are made.
But, rigged too "fat", when the sailor is looking for the absolute best low end,
they do lose their "slipperiness" and top out fairly early.
Add a bit more downhaul to flatten the top slightly, and run them with less that
the suggested outhaul, and they give nearly as much low end, but are more
slippery and faster when you add outhaul to flatten the lower panels and
straighten
the leech.
This applies to cam sails as well, so I would guess the best way to rig is to
stay
within the downhaul parameters the designer had in mind, and do more tuning
with the outhaul.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Dan Weiss
Interesting comment about downhaul tensions for cammed sails, Roger. It's
been my experience (no Sailworks XT/NXs, though) that more than the
suggested downhaul plus tuning with the outhaul often yields the best racing
tune. At least for my N 2s, if I downhaul to max plus 1/2 cm I can still
take advantage of the acreage but get a very flat entry and can tune for
power using the outhaul. It works great for me at 155-165 depending, and I
get both top end and bottom end. I have moved my booms to overhead and the
mastfoot very far forward in the box due to the peculiarities of my AHD 95
and find that the balance remains very outhaul sensitive. I like the fixed
downhaul concept a lot since I can rig big, power/depower and position the
draft and get so much out of a single adjustment. This makes the sails very
versatile for us smaller guys and keeps the board cruising in chop,
something once the sole domain of the big boys.
Are the Sailworks XTs and NXs different in this regard?
See you in two weeks @ Calema!
--
Dan
"sailquik (Roger Jackson)" <sail...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C6F1E55...@mindspring.com...
VA11
the Techno worked best for me - in saltwater - on 50,52, and 54cm CR15's.
Anything bigger (tried 58cm CR15 pretty extensively) or more powerful (like
the 55cm CR12) was too much lift for me to stay trimmed right.
I know that others have had a lot of success with the bigger fins, but for
me the smaller ones were faster. only exception was in fresh/brackish water
with a 9.8 where I found the 58cm CR15 ideal.
A fellow competitor experimented with some pretty big fins (I think up to
62cm) in the Techno and found that it did help to get planing sooner, but
was apparently only really fast in the narrow wind window where the big fin
planed and a smaller one didn't - thereafter it was too much lift.
One other thought on racing the Techno - try tightening the straps so that
just your toes poke out. This gets a little further out on the rail and
lets you turn your back heel a little further forward up wind.
Regards,
Sam Franck
I ride Gaastra/AHD/FS/Curtis Fins
"Bill Kline" <bil...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020216020207...@mb-fc.aol.com...
Dave
You're probably right. Maybe I'll give it a shot when I get the "Start" board for the
kids. I have a 490 NP Race Pro and a big Fiberspar carbon boom collecting dust in my
garage. Maybe I'll get a big sail to match it.
I'm just a little doubtful that I'll enjoy it. The other day I was powered up on a 5.2 in
flat water and started getting a little bored after a couple of hours. At least on the
5.2 I can practice some freestyle. With a 9.0 I'll be limited to jibes and fast-tacks.
Maybe I'm destined to become one of those kooky kite dudes when the wind be
light......................
Dave in Charlotte.
WARDOG
How was your trip?
Where you live, you'll definitely be a kiter dude...but in the meantime
dude, throw a 5.2m2 or 5.7m2 wave sail on the START and invent some
freestyle moves...I think the "dude" would be a good name for a
freestyle move...you could be all like, "dude, did you see that dude
throw that sick "dude", dude?!?!"
WARDOG
http://www.surfingdudes.com
Dave
> Hey Dave dude...
> How was your trip?
Had a blast touring the BVI (was originally gonna be the Grenadines) by charter boat with some
friends. I was the only windsurfer. First off, thanks for the coffin bag. It protected my
prized Bassett, JP, booms and masts with nary a scratch on both flights. Arrived in St. Thomas
and headed straight for the marina. Headed to St. John ( it was blowing a nice 15-20 the whole
way ) that afternoon and anchored off a beautiful, sheltered cove. Got a little light-wind
freestyle in the next day at the same spot the following today (6.8/270). Didn't even have to
swim/schlog out to the windline. Our Captain, Kelvin scrambled the dinghy whenever I need to
get out or come back in. By the end of the trip we had a pretty good system going. He'd pull
alongside just upwind of me, I'd jump into the dinghy whilst holding the sail and we'd head for
the boat with the board in the water. Only klunked him in the head with the mast a couple of
times. Got a nice sunset session off of Virgin Gorda on the same gear the next day. I was
thankful that Kelvin told me the water in that cove is very sharky only after I got out of the
water at sunset. The next day there was no sailing but we did get in a beautiful run on Peter
Island - the run was straight uphill the first half so it was pretty slow going. That was
followed by a little workout session and massage at the Peter Island Spa and Resort. The body
felt loose and limber after that and ready for the predicted increase in wind and swell that was
to come for our last two days. Got my only taste of BVI wavesailing the following day at Jost
Van Dyke. Used the Bassett and 6.8, but should've been on a flat 5.8. Scored some backside
hits on the chest-high sets, but you had to kick out before the wave actually broke on almost
dry and very shallow coral and rock. A couple of times the waves were nice enough to tempt me
to stay on them a little too long. Kind of scary seeing the water immediately below you start
to bubble and boil. Was fortunate not to have paid a price for my few indiscretions. Our last
morning was the windiest, 5.2 fully powered in between St. Thomas and I think St. James. Just
flat-water blasting but fun. It was the first time I didn't sail by myself as two other
windsurfers launched off of their sailboats. Funny how about 1 in 10 of the large boats I saw
during my stay had windsurfers racked up on them. Kind of like that feeling at the Gorge where
half the cars have gear on them. Saw a few huge flourescent green turtles on the surface. The
needlefish skimming just a foot or so above the surface were a little unnerving. They were
everywhere. Wasn't worried about what was chasing them, but I've heard stories about people
getting impaled. Give me sharks anytime, well maybe not.
>
> Where you live, you'll definitely be a kiter dude...but in the meantime
> dude, throw a 5.2m2 or 5.7m2 wave sail on the START and invent some
> freestyle moves...I think the "dude" would be a good name for a
> freestyle move...you could be all like, "dude, did you see that dude
> throw that sick "dude", dude?!?!"
Dude.........Are you mocking me? I will not be mocked.
Dave in Charlotte.
Will Vasquez
Dave
It was a pretty fun trip for a supposedly non-windsurfing couple's excursion. Funny how
almost every time I make a trip specifically to windsurf it's mostly a letdown or an
outright skunking. I think I may have tricked the Windgod by going with a bunch of
landlubbers that are more comfortable on a jet-ski.
Dave in Charlotte.