Finally Sailed the TECHNO
Berkeley Windsurf & Snowboard
up at my store yesterday. All sold, of course. So I borrowed one from
a customer and went sailing. You will all learn soon enough what this
board is like, as I predict it will outsell every Bic ever made. It
does exactly what it is supposed to: Plane quickly, sail comfortably,
upwind/downwind like a course board, etc. What I didn't expect was that
it reaches extremely fast, maybe faster than any widebody I've ever
sailed. I was drag racing some much smaller boards and kicking butt.
On top of all that, the board is really fun. Ken Harts (famous sailor
and Bic Rep) sailed with me on an 8.0 Stealth from Hot, along with Steve
S. on a lab. I got hosed in a hole early and had some dialing in
problems (footstraps, etc.) and when I looked up, those two were gone.
Ken was keeping up with Steve pretty well, especially reaching. He had
no cams, AND the stock fin, so upwind he was a little off, but not too
much so. Downwind he got hosed because of no adjustable outhaul, but by
then I had caught them and I could go down with Steve as well as I can
on any board, actually better than the last 2 times on my Roberts.
Steve was impressed, but had to leave early. So Ken and I sailed down
in the basin, letting people try the boards, etc. Ken put on a total
show, doing crazy freestyle moves like duck tacks, and pirouettes, never
falling once. He capped it off with a FLATWATER LOOP with an 8.0
sail--the first Techno loop in the world!!!
The board is perfect for what we want, no it won't beat a Mike's Lab,
but it's really easy to sail, even dead downwind over powered. One of
the easiest wide-bodies yet. I was mostly feeling releived having sold
10 of these sight-unseen. I slept well last night, knowing that the
board will live up to everyone's expectations, and then some.
I would say it sails most like a Seatrend 70AVS, but easier, and, gulp,
faster. It's a little floatier than that board, and seems to plane
quicker. It actually seemed to me to plane quicker than the GO, as
well. It's been too long since I sailed the Bee 289 to compare, but I
think bigger people are going to prefer the Techno.
Downsides: The only disapointment is that some of the drawings showed
the board with two sets of rear footstrap inserts. It only has one,
kind of in no man's land. Comfortable, but not race position, nor are
they inboard enough for really big feet recreational dudes (I had one
guy hoping it would have a cener-line strap). It's the first time my
feet didn't hurt, though after sailing to TI and back.
Weight: It really is 20 lbs. I dunno, I guess I was hoping for less,
but honestly, and I sound like a salesman here, honestly, the board
feels light as anything when you are sailing it. It's the volume or
something, but this board planes quicker than anything I have sailed
without a dagger board, including custom race boards and the FL 10. At
least it seemed that way yesterday, the only way to know is side-by side
testing, and that won't happen for a long time--maybe Ken Winner is
reading?
It does not jibe on a dime, but it stays on a plane all the way through
the jibe, even with an 8.3 moderately powered. It turns much
differently than the AVS board I've been sailing. It wants to do long
arcs, but keep moving. It is not "loose" but it is super stable, and
doesn't feel locked in at all. Never "sticky" even off the wind.
You have to run the mast base at the back of the track to get all the
speed out of this thing, and we have a long way to go figuring out
fins. The stocker is actally OK for fun sailing, but upwind it is
spinny and slow. I tried a True Ames 50cm and it felt a little small
for the 8.3. Seemed to need more chord....
Anyway, this board is it. Bic has a total winner here, now they just
need some press about it. I am much happier with the board than I even
dreamed I would be, but then again I sell them, so take the above with a
grain or two of salt, or better yet, sail one yourself. Supposedly Bic
is making 200 per day, so in a month or so we should be caught up on
delivery and you should have one down the street at your local
pusher--dealer. Anybody into light wind will love this board.
--
Will Harper
mail to: bwa...@slip.net
http://www.slip.net/~bwands
**********************************************************************
Berkeley Windsurf and Snowboard Windsports
1601 University Ave. 1595 East Franciso Blvd
Berkeley, CA 94703 San Rafael, CA 94901
(510) 843-9283 (415) 459-1171
**********************************************************************
plan...@my-dejanews.com
What is the largest sail size you would use on the techno
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Philip Mann
excellent results,
With the width of the board and the volume I would have no prblem
putting a 9.0-9.5 on it. I would however probably put a larger fin on
the board when going to the larger sails.
The ice is all gone fom Lake Champlain so I should be able to test
this theory soon!!!
Have fun
Philip
Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
http://www.inlandsea.com
1-888-inlandc (465-2632) Toll free
Shop Hours Tues-Sat 11am-7pm EST
Berkeley Windsurf & Snowboard
What's the largest sail they make?
Henrik Klagges
Bryan Boldt wrote:
> flat water I pointed upwind. Like hell you say! This puppy went upwind
> soooo high I was hitting the 2 1/2 foot swells almost head on. Buds said
> they couldn't believe the pointing.
Hello Bryan,
isn't the pointing more due to the huge fins you're using (48cm and some
such) than the board?
Cheers,
HK
--
Henrik Klagges - IT Analyst
hen...@strategypartners.com
PGPKey available on request
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
though the 48cm is way too big for a 5.5m in those winds. And I
think the 5.5m may be out of the intended wind range for this
board. Glad it worked for you though. Good to see that it can
"work" in such overpowering conditions.
---
Marc Lefebvre (US-775)
Cape Cod Windsurfing Association, President
US Windsurfing Northeast Regional Director
Gear: AHD/NeilPryde/Fiberspar/Fiberfoils
Email: lefe...@ultranet.com
URL: http://www.ultranet.com/~lefebvre/
Motto: "Windsurfing is life, the rest is just details!"
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
Bryan Boldt wrote:
> Well, my next fin down a size is a 42cm Fin Works pointer,
> which is probably way too small for a fat board. I'll have to
> try it though just to be sure.
Keep in mind the fin size has more to do with what size sail
you are sailing and your weight than the tail width. The tail
width limits the length of the fin to some maximum size but that
is about it. I would think that with a 5.5m sail I would use a
fin around 34-37cm long for maximum speed. Your upwind ability
would be generated by the lift of the rail of the board and at
speed the 37cm fin will do wonders.
The moral of the story is that we need to use the "smallest"
fin that will get them planing and upwind as possible. Any
larger than this and you will only be increasing drag. This
"smallest" fin may be 50cm depending on the wind and your weight,
or it could be 44cm. Everyday could be different but is worth
playing with when you are trying to dial your board in various
Berkeley Windsurf & Snowboard
>
> Techno owner day 2 - the shrink wrap comes off...
>
> Couldn't wait, the wind was typical Colorado fair of 10-24+ mph and
> the temp was hovering around 40F - nasty wind chill!
>
> Rigged a Nash Noa 5.5 and attached my Curtis CR-12, 48cm. I didn't
> take the stock 48cm fin that came with the Techno cause I already had
> the Curtis. The stock fin is swept back for making easier jibes, the
> Curtis is a straight pointer with a thicker (wider) cord. Mistake I
> made was putting the fin only one position from the back. I think
> with a smaller sail like the 5.5, you should move it forward two
> notches (or otherwise into the middle position) cause when push came
> to shove (very overpowered) I got shoved - very hard to stand/push the
> board out with the back leg and stay in control. Moving the fin
> forward would tame it down a notch.
>
> I'm currently 182lbs (plus lots of rubber and a PFD) and still had my
> hands full with teary eyed reaches and hanging on for life and limb.
> Friends from the beach said I was screaming and it felt like it!
>
> Just as I went out on the 5.5 into the middle of our favorite lake it
> began really cranking. Like 30+. Wanting to make for flat water I
> pointed upwind. Like hell you say! This puppy went upwind soooo high
> I was hitting the 2 1/2 foot swells almost head on. Buds said they
> times (riders option), the Techno stayed the battle like a champ.
> Actually found it more difficult to broad reach (go downwind) than was
> comfortable (again, I believe this is solely due to being
> over-finned).
>
> Jibing? When not totally overpowered I managed a few. Put your rear
> foot on the rail and press - an inboard position won't let you bite
> with the edge... and swoosh (holey Toledo Batman), baby goes round
> like it's on a set of tracks. Sweet! None of that "only likes to do
> long jibes" stuff. Stuff the rail and go with it!
>
> Can't wait for a tamer day to relax a bit, just cruise and see how she
> planes in light wind.
>
>
>
> Name: bboldt.vcf
> Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard
> Encoding: 7bit
> Description: Card for Bryan Boldt
You are a wildman! That board is NOT designed for 5.5, especially with
a 48 CR12!! If you are going to use it with a 5.5, try the 42cm
Finworks, you'll be suprised how quick you plane, and the board will
handle a lot better. Fin 3/4 of the way back is good, even with the
smaller fin, so keep doing it. Glad you like how it sails.
sail...@interpath.com
>
>
> What is the largest sail size you would use on the techno
I think it was Will Harper that answered this question previously!
The answer was a question "Whats the largest size sail there is".
As long as you can find a fin big enough, you could use an 11.7 m2
Aero Tech VMG.
I suspect that, like the other superplaners, you need a sail >8.0 to
begin to appreciate what the board can do!
later
Roger
sailquik (Roger Jackson) US 7011
Cert. WS Instructor (Lvl 1)
F2/MPB/Sailworks/Tectonics/True Ames/Chinook/Kokatat/DaKine
Phones: So. MD (301)872-9459; Avon, NC (252) 995-3204
Mark Woodman
a friend and still rip? down to a 6.5? or does it only work in 8.0
conditions.
sail...@interpath.com wrote in message
<370fdd87...@news.interpath.net>...
sail...@interpath.com
<shre...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I would like to hear about this board. Please comment.Stable enough to teach
>a friend and still rip? down to a 6.5? or does it only work in 8.0
>conditions.
It should be stable enough, but the Techno is not a "Starboard Go".
I would never recommend teaching a beginner on a shortboard, unless
you have near perfect conditions (yeah, right).
But yes, the Bic Techno 283 should be a very good 1st short board for
those living in lite wind areas. But then almost any of the
recreational (not race) oriented super planers might be equally as
good. Not taking anything away from the Techno 283, these boards all
make learning to sail a shortboard a whole lot easier, because they
plane up so much earlier. Learning to ride a planing shortboard in 12
knots on flat water, makes the whole process soooo much easier.
My comment about <8.0 was directed at using the Techno's entire
windrange.
If you put a 6.5 on it, do not expect to plane in 10-12 knots (more
like 15-17.
Put an 8.0 or larger on it, and yes you can easily plane in <10 knots
(how much less may depend alot on how much you weigh).
I'd suggest you try one, and the Starboard Go as well.
Hope this helps!
Erik de Haas
you.
http://www.pro-limit.com under the fins section
Erik
Bryan Boldt wrote in message <37138240...@us.oracle.com>...
Been sailing the Techno over the last week in nicely (over) powered
6.5-7.5 conditions. With these sail sizes, definitely use a fin smaller
than the stock 48cm for more control and if you want to bare off
comfortably. I'm using my 42cm FinWorks pointer all the time now and saving
my Curtis 48cm CR10 (yup, not the CR12) for sails 8.0 & up.
At 180lbs, I find that the Techno could probably break free (unstick)
onto a plane a bit sooner like the AHD Diamond 72, but overall, it's really
nice in overpowered conditions and jibes fantastic!
ken
sail...@interpath.com wrote:
>
> On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:24:48 -0400, "Mark Woodman"
> <shre...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >I would like to hear about this board. Please comment.Stable enough to teach
> >a friend and still rip? down to a 6.5? or does it only work in 8.0
> >conditions.
>
> It should be stable enough, but the Techno is not a "Starboard Go".
> I would never recommend teaching a beginner on a shortboard, unless
> you have near perfect conditions (yeah, right).
> But yes, the Bic Techno 283 should be a very good 1st short board for
> those living in lite wind areas. But then almost any of the
> recreational (not race) oriented super planers might be equally as
> good. Not taking anything away from the Techno 283, these boards all
> make learning to sail a shortboard a whole lot easier, because they
> plane up so much earlier. Learning to ride a planing shortboard in 12
> knots on flat water, makes the whole process soooo much easier.
>
Roger,
I'd be very grateful if you and some of the other experienced sailors
would list these "superplaners". In particular, what ones would serve as
a good board for recreational use from 8 knots to maybe 20 knots?
Thanks,
ken
Steve Pretti
have seen and read, the "superplaner" boards are generally raceboards
designed to perform starting at the 8 knot minimum. An experienced racer can
ride them when the wind comes up, but I don't think they are designed to
handle the full range from 8 to 20 kts. I surmize from what I have read that
a good all-around board for recreational use (if you can only have one
board) is still a modern long board with a centerboard such as an F2 Phoenix
340, a Fanatic Snake 335, Mistral Malibu, Bic Veloce 328 etc. (or a
traditional race longboard). Exceptions to this may be starting to show up
in the Techno and GO, but I still think (again from what info I can gather
by reading) that the short wide "superplaners" would leave you wanting
something else at the low end and the high end for recreational use. Maybe
someday there will be a shape that is a good planer at the low end and
handles well at the high end, but I do not think we are there yet. I hope I
am wrong, then again, I am addicted to riding the centerboard upwind on my
Phoenix.
Steve Pretti
Bryan Boldt
pressed to find longboards in use by anyone other than newbies wanting a
training wheel (centerboard) or Olympic wannabees.
The new wide boards go upwind like crazy. The old school shortboards
would fade off downwind if you weren't powered up and thus the old bias
for longboard "fun" sailing in less than the old shortboard
"conditions". The new puppies not only go upwind great but obviously
don't sink either and weigh a lot less (16-21 lbs). Why would anyone
still want to haul around a 26-35 lbs, 11-12 ft board? My petite 95 lbs
wife wants another Techno for her, simply so she can haul it around
easier than our "old" Veloce 328 which she used to love so much.
Yeah, you probably need your daggerboard to make your old boards go
upwind, but not with the new sb designs that fit the same wind ranges as
the old lb. Oh, I did ride the new Phoenix fat/long board and it didn't
perform anywhere near the Techno. 90% of the time the Phoenix is much
slower... the other 10% with the dagger down you could kind of plane,
but so what... I'd rather be on a horse than a donkey.
Steve Pretti
Steve Pretti
Stig Johansen
>
> I'd be very grateful if you and some of the other experienced sailors
> would list these "superplaners". In particular, what ones would serve as
> a good board for recreational use from 8 knots to maybe 20 knots?
Actually such a board excists. It's named AHD 310 and is
being replaced by the radical new AHD Diamond 72 and 67.
The AHD 310 is one of the most versatile boards I have ever
sailed and it handles easily 8-20 knots with sails from
10 sqm down to 7 sqm. It should be no problem for an ambitious
beginner to sail it. Similar boards can be bought from
Starboard, F2, Mistral, Fanatic, and the others.
The new trend is 260-280 cm boards with flappers or diamond
tails, that really fly upwind in light wind. They outperform
the older 310 designs, but are less user friendly. I would not
reccommend those to a beginner, but a regatta sailor will
have trouble without them.
Some examples are:
AHD Diamond 72 and 67
Starboard W75
Mistral AVS
(N-16) Arctic Surf Bums:-)
--
///// Stig Johansen | HitecVision /
//// Senior System Developer | Lagerveien 8 //
/// st...@hitec.no | 4033 Forus ///
// +47 51 81 83 15 | Norway ////
/ http://joyweb.priv.no /////
dubois
>
> That's a bit of a dinosaur analysis. In 5 years you will be hard
> pressed to find longboards in use by anyone other than newbies wanting a
> training wheel (centerboard) or Olympic wannabees.
>
> The new wide boards go upwind like crazy. The old school shortboards
> would fade off downwind if you weren't powered up and thus the old bias
>
Its normal, those new "superplaners" have the equivalent of a
daggerboard under your rear foot.
Francois
k.w.jeter
today i tested my new techno ,with a 7,5 challenger race and a 44 fin. note the
wind was enough strong to plane with a rrd 286 and a 7 mt sail.
was absolutely fun .it starts soon to plane , keeps good on lulls ,no problem on
chop (it even do little jumps) , it is fast and stable.
i'm quite a beginner (only two years of windsurf, and quite heavy (about 85 kilos)
and before this board i used a veloce 288.
even friends really experienced tested it and everybody said that it's absolutely
fun and fast,of course it's not so good for those waver or racer that are used to
other -more difficult- boards ,but i thin k it's a new idea of board.
sorry for my english ,(im italian) and good wind to all.
Jonathan M Richardson
: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Brian: I still see no need to post the mime wrapper around you plain
text. However, I will try to suffer through your foolishness
gladly. :-)
: That's a bit of a dinosaur analysis. In 5 years you will be hard
: pressed to find longboards in use by anyone other than newbies wanting a
: training wheel (centerboard) or Olympic wannabees.
In many races around the world I have watched the GS boards fall
behind in a few heats as the wind failed a bit. Maybe the "problem" is
that it takes much more skill to keep a GS board planing through a
hole than a longboard. Add to this the fact that the speed difference
is very small and that the longboard _will_ point higher, particularly
with a huge race-centerboard. I have seen it in several races now.
A great example was the Narragansett Bay crossing last year. This is a
14 mile race that featured a variety of conditions including
fully-powered _and_ slogging. None of the GS boards finished. The
board to beat was an Equipe II. Read it and weep.
I, for one, am hoping that someone will race a GO at one of the course
races this summer. Given the right conditions it might have a chance!
-Jonathan (US233)
: begin:vcard
: end:vcard
end:foolishness
William Fragakis
Richardson) wrote:
> Bryan Boldt (bbo...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
>
> : Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Brian: I still see no need to post the mime wrapper around you plain
> text. However, I will try to suffer through your foolishness
> gladly. :-)
>
> : That's a bit of a dinosaur analysis. In 5 years you will be hard
> : pressed to find longboards in use by anyone other than newbies wanting a
> : training wheel (centerboard) or Olympic wannabees.
>
> In many races around the world I have watched the GS boards fall
> behind in a few heats as the wind failed a bit. Maybe the "problem" is
> that it takes much more skill to keep a GS board planing through a
> hole than a longboard. Add to this the fact that the speed difference
> is very small and that the longboard _will_ point higher, particularly
> with a huge race-centerboard. I have seen it in several races now.
We saw it in Atlanta recently, too. 15-30 and the longboards still were
competitive (to say the least). Those lulls on a lake can be killer.
Also, we were sailing in a bay that didn't allow you just to sail one tack
to the lay line but required about 4 tacks on a shortboard.
I know the World Cup guys can make them go (no pun intended), but I'm not
sure the average club racer will do as well, yet.
Regards,
William
MTVNewsGuy
Michael
US5613
RandacF
>competitive (to say the least). Those lulls on a lake can be killer.
Another interesting observation is found in the most recent New England
Windsurfing Jounal. The author says that it has been proven shortboards will
smoke longboards in 9m+ conditions. Maybe so, but the race results reported
(in the same article) for the Calema Midwinters said that longboards dominated
the first four races (out of seven). Looks like the evidence contradicts the
conclusion.
Randy
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
> Another interesting observation is found in the most recent New England
> Windsurfing Jounal. The author says that it has been proven shortboards will
> smoke longboards in 9m conditions. Maybe so, but the race results reported
> (in the same article) for the Calema Midwinters said that longboards dominated
> the first four races (out of seven). Looks like the evidence contradicts the
> conclusion.
Well, actually in the first four races of the Calema midwinter's the winds were
barely above 5kts. That is not really 9m sailing. I am not sure even a 12m sail
would have worked. BUT as soon as the winds were planable (8-10kts), the
shortboards ruled the day.
(Pete Cresswell)
>How about Longboards are Fun in non-planing conditions?
I would jump on that one.
I had a ProTec 9' 10" semi custom that I sold for $90 over a year ago and which
I'd gladly pay $250 to get back.
Reason: That old volume-forward monster was enjoyable to sail in non-planing
conditions. It has a degree of glide that my volume-back boards don't have.
The're either planing or slugs.
With the ProTec, the glide allowed you to oonch up to the bow and catch little
8-10" wind chop and sort of ride it as long as there was, maybe 4-6 mph of wind.
Also, the transition from slog to plane was gradual (instead of bursting onto a
plane...) and there was a lot of pleasurable sailing in that in-between state.
The ProTech was no longboard, but I think the same principles came into play.
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell
rh...@my-dejanews.com
intermediate sailor (learning to waterstart, get in the straps, harness etc)?
If it isn't planing is this board absolutely miserable to sail or could you
still practice a few flair gybes etc when there was not enough to plane?
Thanks,
Richard
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
Another comment on this subject is that I believe that longboards will NEVER
be replaced in windsurfing. Period. I am NOT a longboard person but respect
their place in our sport. I don't think we will EVER get a short board to plane
in winds around 5kts or less. I just don't think it is going to happen. And,
since we are NOT planing in these conditions, water line length=speed in
sub-planing conditions, thus, the longboards will always have their niche. If you
want a board for ALL conditions, then the longboard is the choice. If you want a
board that planes in the least amount of wind possible, then the new wide
shortboards are for you. As you said, it is a pain to lug around a longboard so
maybe you can get a superplaner, and then play golf on those NO WIND days. Or
maybe go biking, water skiing, or what ever. That is what I do. The point is,
the longboard will always be the "do it all" kind of board, getting one depends on
how much of the "ALL" you want sail.
PS. If you don't think longboards have a place in wave riding, you should have
been at the last wave event on Cape Hatteras. On one day Trip Forman was wave
riding on a Phoenix. No joke. Looked like fun too.
b...@spam_sync.com
wrote:
> Another comment on this subject is that I believe that longboards will
> NEVER be replaced in windsurfing. Period. I am NOT a longboard
> person but respect their place in our sport.
Last week, I had the opportunity to try a Bic Techno with 9.0 sail
versus my pre '90s Equipe with 6.8. The techno felt great but the
longboard was significantly faster, especially when the wind picked up.
Ben
--
Ben Kaufman
antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.
- 04/30/99
Berkeley Windsurf & Snowboard
I think the Techno is a great board for anybody at any level, but I'm so
biased I'm blue with an orange stripe!!
Michael JS
have some reservations for making it my "big" board. I live in Toronto and
do most of my local sailing on Lake Ontario. We have flukey winds and a
summer day with consistent planing winds is rare. In this type of
environment, I'm sure I would get in more days of planing on a board like
the Techno due to its lower planing threshold (versus a more traditional
shortboard) but I would still be concerned about upwind ability in
non-planing winds. Many other inland lake sailors may have similar concerns.
My questions:
How much wind does it take before the Techno starts planing -with and
without pumping - using a 7.5 sail (say, for a 150lb rider with good form)
How well does the Techno go upwind in marginal planing conditions?
How easily does the Techno go upwind in non-planing conditions? I'm assuming
that one would have to use the standard technique for going upwind on a
non-planing shortboard i.e., tilt board on longitudinal axis to windward to
create enough lateral resistance in order to go upwind
On a more general note, do the new boards like the Starboard Go or Fanatic
Bee 289 go upwind any better in non-planing conditions than more traditional
shortboards?
The alternative to a board like the Techno would be a new shape longboard
like the Bic Veloce 328, Fanatic Phoenix, Mistral Malibu, etc.
Berkeley Windsurf & Snowboard <bwa...@slip.net> wrote in message
news:37297E...@slip.net...
Brian Weekes
-----Original Message-----
From: benKa...@spamsync.com <bsk@spam_sync.com>
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Date: 30 April 1999 10:43
Subject: Re: Superplaners (was Finally Sailed the TECHNO)
>Last week, I had the opportunity to try a Bic Techno with 9.0 sail
>versus my pre '90s Equipe with 6.8. The techno felt great but the
>longboard was significantly faster, especially when the wind picked up.
>
>Ben
>
I'd love to test you out on your last comment. I'm approx 70kg, which helps
a lot on the Techno in light wind (first to plane every time- no body's been
anywhere near catching me in such marginal winds, incl Thommen 305). Even
with a 6.2 Gaastra and 34cm fin, goes like a train when wind picks up, even
in swell and heavy chop.
In sub planing (wallowing) conditions, I bet the Equipe will probably piss
all over me though.
Brian
n.b. whats happened to this font?
Brian Weekes
>
>n.b. whats happened to this font?
>
>
Brian
Gian Nicola Maestro
i'm am na intermediate sailor ,and quite heavy (85 kilos)
i bought a new techno ,(before i used a veloce 288) and i tested it with a
challenger race 7,3 ..it goes upwind very well even without planing..it's really
fun and fast (of course not like a racing one ..even if on downwind it's really
fast)
hope this helps .
good wind
b...@spam_sync.com
> I'd love to test you out on your last comment. I'm approx 70kg, which
> helps a lot on the Techno in light wind (first to plane every time- no
> body's been anywhere near catching me in such marginal winds, incl
> Thommen 305). Even with a 6.2 Gaastra and 34cm fin, goes like a train
> when wind picks up, even in swell and heavy chop.
The fin he had on was significantly larger than 34 cm. (13.4"). I would
say that it was closer to 18". I'll ask him the next time I see him. It
went on a plane really quick and seemed to go up wind as well as the
longboard (without using dagger board).
bbense+rec.winds...@telemark.stanford.edu
In article <ZNnW2.9489$eb.8...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com>,
Michael JS <win...@home.com> wrote:
>It seems that the Techno is a great board based on user reports but I still
>have some reservations for making it my "big" board. I live in Toronto and
>do most of my local sailing on Lake Ontario. We have flukey winds and a
>summer day with consistent planing winds is rare. In this type of
>environment, I'm sure I would get in more days of planing on a board like
>the Techno due to its lower planing threshold (versus a more traditional
>shortboard) but I would still be concerned about upwind ability in
>non-planing winds. Many other inland lake sailors may have similar concerns.
>
>My questions:
>How much wind does it take before the Techno starts planing -with and
>without pumping - using a 7.5 sail (say, for a 150lb rider with good form)
- - If you don't know how to pump, you miss alot of the low end of this board.
You don't need to pump alot, but pumping lowers the planing threshold at
least 2-3 knots. At 180lbs with a 7.2 sail I can pump up and stay on a
plane in 10-12 knots. A stiff fin helps alot with the low end. I've been
experimenting with a Curtis CR12 and like it so far.
- - However, I think you'd be much happier in flukey conditions with
a bigger sail. For general sailing I think you'd want an 8.0+ sail
with alot of range.
>How well does the Techno go upwind in marginal planing conditions?
- - With the right fin it works pretty well. These boards are either
planing or not, there is very little in between compared to more traditional
boards.
>How easily does the Techno go upwind in non-planing conditions? I'm assuming
>that one would have to use the standard technique for going upwind on a
>non-planing shortboard i.e., tilt board on longitudinal axis to windward to
>create enough lateral resistance in order to go upwind
>
- - Sailing these boards requires a few changes in technique. You'll
just wallow if you tip the board. When not planing you can go upwind
if the fin is big enough. Tipping the board is exactly what you don't
want to do, keeping it flat is the key to early planing. You can carry
a fin nearly the size of some "funboard" daggerboards.
- - The point of this board is to plane as early as possible. With
the right sail and fin, I think you can pretty much plane nearly
every day you'd want to sail. With a 9.0 the planing threshold is
definitely in the single digits.
- - Anyway, you won't really believe what these boards can do until
you try one. They are far more fun to sail than you would believe
from looking at them. The range of these boards on both the
low and high end is a real eye-opener.
- - Booker C. Bense
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TomBuckOb2
The wind must have been blowing at less than about 10 kts for that to be true.
(I'm a longboard sailor, but get off it AS SOON as possible for a big
shortboard)
>Last week, I had the opportunity to try a Bic Techno with 9.0 sail
>versus my pre '90s Equipe with 6.8. The techno felt great but the
>longboard was significantly faster, especially when the wind picked up.
>
>Ben
>
Tom - Chicago
Jerry McEwen
your input, Ben.
There's an old saying, it is "what goes around comes around."
On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:43:45 GMT, bsk@spam_sync.com
(benKa...@spamsync.com) wrote:
>On April 30 1999, "Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)" <lefe...@ultranet.com>
>wrote:
>> Another comment on this subject is that I believe that longboards will
> > NEVER be replaced in windsurfing. Period. I am NOT a longboard
>> person but respect their place in our sport.
>
>Last week, I had the opportunity to try a Bic Techno with 9.0 sail
>versus my pre '90s Equipe with 6.8. The techno felt great but the
>longboard was significantly faster, especially when the wind picked up.
>
>Ben
Windsurfing Connection
Nashville, TN
http://www.coolcats.com/windsurf
winco...@mypantsaol.com
Remove my pants to reply.
I post pictures from
alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean.windsurfing at
http://www.coolcats.com/usenet
TomBuckOb2
was more than 8 to 10 kts of wind, there is no way this story is true.
Tom - Chicago
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
proficient longboarders not be able to get a shortboard planing early, just as I
have seen expert shortboarders have a tough time on a longboard. Ben may be
very proficient on the longboard. It does take skill, practice, and efficiency
for these new boards to work. I have seen heavier guys on smaller sails plane
before lighter beginners on bigger sails. It happens...
TomBuckOb2 wrote:
---
b...@spam_sync.com
> But Ben has still not answered the question of wind speed. Because if
> there was more than 8 to 10 kts of wind, there is no way this story
Excussssssssse meeeeeeee?! This is no "story."
I was on the board for about 15 minutes and I also sailed besides it on
my long board. As I said in a previous post, it may have been the
monster fin slowing it down. I didn't have the option of trying a
smaller fin. Maybe your long board is experience is on 45lb Alphas?
Though my Equipe is old and not as fast as my 282, it's no slow poke.
To reiterate, other than the top-end speed, the board felt great to
ride.
Ben
!^NavFont02F02200003HIiA86E
--
Ben Kaufman
antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.
- 05/03/99
b...@spam_sync.com
> Ben:
>
> The wind must have been blowing at less than about 10 kts for that to
No. When the wind came on there was a lot more pull from the sail but
the board wasn't going much faster.
Ben
b...@spam_sync.com
wrote:
> Don't forget their could be an issue of sailor ability as well. I
> have seen proficient longboarders not be able to get a shortboard
> planing early, just as I have seen expert shortboarders have a tough
> time on a longboard. Ben may be very proficient on the longboard. It
> does take skill, practice, and efficiency for these new boards to
> work. I have seen heavier guys on smaller sails plane before lighter
Marc,
I had no problem getting it on a plane. If anything, when the wind
picked up, I was close to over powered.
I'm no longboard "lover." But if the wind isn't up enough I rather be
cruising on my long board rather than schloggin on the short or crying
on the beach.
I usually bring two boards on the beach and switch them rather than
sails. It's either the long board and 282 or the 282 and 263.
Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)
"benKa...@spamsync.com" wrote:
> On May 02 1999, tombu...@aol.com (TomBuckOb2) wrote:
> > Ben:
> >
> > The wind must have been blowing at less than about 10 kts for that to
> > be true.> .
>
> No. When the wind came on there was a lot more pull from the sail but
> the board wasn't going much faster.
This is strange. Where there any weeds?? I do believe you and don't
think you are trying to cause hysteria here but this very odd to say the
least... Well, I guess all I can tell you is give it another try. Maybe
play the fin size next time. In 10kts of wind a Techno with a 9.0 SHOULD
easily walk away from a Equip with the same sail size. Keep in mind you
have to pump the Techno a couple of times to get planing. We are talking
about planing conditions not displacement conditions, Right?
RMoore 41
>easily walk away from a Equip with the same sail size. Keep in mind you
>have to pump the Techno a couple of times to get planing. We are talking
>about planing conditions not displacement conditions, Right?
USYRU which is now called US sailing did a survey about the amount of wind at
the various regattas across the United States and found out that in half of all
the races held, the windspeed average was less than 10 mph. I n these
conditions the longboards will kick butt and the shortboards will eat alot of
points until they get enough wind to plane upwind. bottom line is that the
longboards and the shortboards should not be raced against each other, but have
their own fleets with different wind minimums. If you bring your Techno to most
open class regattas where there is boats, catamarans and longboards you will
probably get your butt kicked as there will be light air races.
William Braden
It was very gusty, so hard to measure wind accurately; I think there
were sustained
periods of winds from 6 miles/hr to 22. I had a 7.5 NP V8 rigged. I
didn't have
the footstraps adjusted right so I had trouble getting into them.
My previous light air board was a Seatrend 9'9 (165 liters); I haven't
been on a
longboard for years.
Conclusions:
1. The board is so wide I felt like I was sailing a sheet of plywood.
2. It planes up remarkably fast; any time I felt any pressure on the
sail
I could get planing, probably at 10 miles/hr windspeed.
3. It goes scary fast when the wind blows harder. And then it wants to
go
upwind. But an assertive person can make it go downwind too.
4. It jibed all by itself while I was trying to figure out how to jibe
it.
5. It is not that easy to sail, though. I really wanted to be
in the straps because otherwise I felt out of control even if the wind
picked
up to 15-18 miles/hr. It feels different than my other boards.
Bill Braden
TomBuckOb2
Just to make sure I am getting this straight:
You were faster on your Equipe with a 6.8 M sail than on a Techno with a 9.0 M
sail?
I am TONS faster on my AHD 297 Free with a 9.1M sail than on my vintage Mistral
Competition with the same sail. (Any time we are above sub-planing conditions)
This is measured with a speedmate knotmeter. In around 12 kts of wind the
Mistral would be going about 13 to 15 mph while the AHD would be going 18 to 22
mph.
Unless the Techno is much worse than the AHD (an early model super planer) or
the Equipe is MUCH better than the Competition (It is better) than I have a
very different experience than you. (I am faster on the short board once we
reach planing conditions with the same sail, much less one which is 2.2 M
smaller)
Tom - Chicago
TomBuckOb2
irrelevant.
Tom - Chicago
b...@spam_sync.com
> This is strange. Where there any weeds?? I do believe you and don't
> think you are trying to cause hysteria here but this very odd to say
> the least... Well, I guess all I can tell you is give it another try.
a > 9.0 SHOULD easily walk away from a Equip with the same sail size.
> Keep in mind you have to pump the Techno a couple of times to get
> planing. We are talking about planing conditions not displacement
Marc,
I was surprised too. At first, I was amazed how quickly I got on an "in
the straps" plane. I felt that I wasn't going fast but there wasn't
much wind. However, when the wind picked up and there were some caps,
the board, though almost entirely out of the water, wasn't going much
faster.
Now I realize that when you're on a really comfy board you may loose
some speed perception but this was a big difference. To be sure, I
followed my friend on a few runs - at this point the wind had picked up
to the low to mid teens - and I was catching and passing him
consistently. The only other difference which I didn't mention before is
that my 6.8 is a prisma and his 9.0 was a brand new camless Neil Pryde
(didn't catch the model name).
This was on the Hudson. No weeds and fairly flat water.
All I can say is, you've got some clout, try one - with that monster
fin. I'm going to call my friend and ask him if that was the stock fin
or they sold him that clam digger <g> as an accessory - and find out how
big it was.
Ben
--
Ben Kaufman
antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.
- 05/04/99
jfe...@ix.netcom.com
> "benKa...@spamsync.com" wrote:
>
> > On May 02 1999, tombu...@aol.com (TomBuckOb2) wrote:
> > > Ben:
> > >
> > > The wind must have been blowing at less than about 10 kts for that to
> > > be true.> .
> >
> > No. When the wind came on there was a lot more pull from the sail but
>
I had roughly the same experience on the Techno. I sailed the Techno in flat water
with wind varying between ~5mph and about 17 mph. I used a V8 8.5m^2 sail.
The board planes up pretty early, but once planing it didn't seem to accellerate
very well. When I sailed into a puff, the rig felt like it was loading up, and
the boardspeed only increased slowly. I didn't find the board very responsive to
pumping.
By way of comparison, on the same day I sailed a Xantos 310II (light version).
I used the same rig, but a smaller fin than the stock Techno fin. The Xantos
needed slightly more wind to get planing, but was quicker on a reach once planing
than the Techno. It also accellerated much better. I never got the sensation
of the rig loading up. in a puff the board would speed up with only a slight
increase in rig pressure. By the way, I tried moving the mast foot around on
the Techo; I thought about 1 inch from the back of the track was better than
further forward, but it didn't get rid of the acceleration problem.
However, I think that the Tecno is a good board, they will sell loads of them.
jeff feehan
William Fragakis
tombu...@aol.com (TomBuckOb2) wrote:
snip
> the Equipe is MUCH better than the Competition (It is better)
Much better. The Equipe II sails like (and I believe is very similar in
shape in the back) to an Exposion I with a nose stuck on. Once the wind
is up, it sails and turns like a shortboard. There's a world of
difference between your Comp and the Equipe. Add a nice 18" fin, which it
can carry pretty easily and it's a different ballgame, altogether.
Regards,
William
b...@spam_sync.com
>
> a 9.0 M sail?
>
> I am TONS faster on my AHD 297 Free with a 9.1M sail than on my
> vintage Mistral Competition with the same sail. (Any time we are
> above sub-planing conditions)
>
> This is measured with a speedmate knotmeter. In around 12 kts of wind
> the Mistral would be going about 13 to 15 mph while the AHD would be
> going 18 to 22 mph.
>
> planer) or the Equipe is MUCH better than the Competition (It is
> faster on the short board once we reach planing conditions with the
> same sail, much less one which is 2.2 M smaller)
The Equipe is fast. I never thought about BUYING a long board after
learning on a 45lb alpha back in '93 but I got the Equipe for next to
nothing (I had to do some extensive hole filling and get a dagger board)
so I figured it was worth it to tool around on low wind days or to teach
friends. But when the wind picks up this board really moves. I'm now
thinking of getting a 9.0 sail for it.
What size fin do you have on the 297?
RJ Associates
to a 295 Xantos when the wind picked. I also sailed another techn w/ an 8.8
after in marginal conditions. I found the Techno to be a very nice board,
much less bouncing than I expected. It planed early, but it was slow once it
got going. I talked to the Bic rep, and he noted that the person who put the
mast base in (not me) put it to far forward (middle of the track). This
keeps the board planing at a kind of slow speed, probably slower than other
boards because of the width of the board. The water separation when fully
powered was at about at the front foot strap. I asked if so much water line
is typically in the water, and Cliff, the Bic rep noted that the base should
be all the way back. Kind of obvious, but I never looked at that when I was
demoing it.
I liked the board alot. It is a good light air all round board which would
work down to about 278 if the fin is changed. I was surprised that the chop
was as easy as it was w/ so much volume. Also, I did hear the fin singing in
both of the Technos I demoed. So Ben, where was the mast track if you
recall?
Rich
"Marc A. Lefebvre (US-775)" wrote:
> "benKa...@spamsync.com" wrote:
>
> > On May 02 1999, tombu...@aol.com (TomBuckOb2) wrote:
> > > Ben:
> > >
> > > The wind must have been blowing at less than about 10 kts for that to
> > > be true.> .
> >
> > No. When the wind came on there was a lot more pull from the sail but
> > the board wasn't going much faster.
>
> This is strange. Where there any weeds?? I do believe you and don't
> think you are trying to cause hysteria here but this very odd to say the
> least... Well, I guess all I can tell you is give it another try. Maybe
> play the fin size next time. In 10kts of wind a Techno with a 9.0 SHOULD
> easily walk away from a Equip with the same sail size. Keep in mind you
> have to pump the Techno a couple of times to get planing. We are talking
> about planing conditions not displacement conditions, Right?
>
TomBuckOb2
fin. I know that sounds short these days, but it really cranked.
Tom - Chicago
RJ Associates
Same experience. The shorter fin seems to work just fine. It's faster, and since
pointing isn't that imporant to me, I don't need to carry a 45+ cm fin. When I
have, I've felt like the board was planing through mud, very slow. And plus when
overpowered, the bigger fin seems to be much less fun because it generates too
much lift for my board (and my 160 pound body). So I'll just stay on a smaller
fin and plane as quickly by using a slightly larger sail.
Rich
b...@spam_sync.com
> So Ben, where was the mast track if you
> recall?
Rich,
Maybe 2/3's of the way back, though I can't be sure. But when I was
powered, the water line was between my legs and probably closer to my
rear foot. Ben
Waubesa767
>sails. It's either the long board and 282 or >the 282 and 263.
I do the same thing. I have a 1 gallon jug with an anchor and throw it
out in the water. Rig a sail and put the other board on the anchor tether. If
the wind picks up instead of rigging down, I switch to the shorter board in 30
seconds and away I go. I almost always sail alone or with a couple of people so
the anchor float is not a problem. At crowded spots I do it on the shore.
Works great.
Dave
WINDSUMIKE
I've only played on one but on a smaller lakeand I'm 160 lb with a 7.2
Tommahawk
and standard fin (46cm) it was very good in around 10-12 knots. I would
endorse the other comments about windward work and best sail and fin sizes
Mike
WINDSUMIKE
Re the Go it chatters like crazy over small chop, turns your legs to jelly!!
Mike
Bryan Boldt
Techno city! Vicki Duncan at Worldwinds has a number of rental/demo
Technos available and is selling new boards for UNDER $1000. At times
you could count upwards of 8 Technos in use (including mine). Sailor
skill will rule most any design. There were soooo many dog slow sailors
struggling on Technos. Then there were a few boards wailing back and
forth being chased (but not caught) by conventional boards and such. Oh
yeah, Vicki has a GO too - never did see it move all that fast.
Weed fin:
The Techno worked great with a 14.5" True Ames weed fin with sail sizes
6.5-7.5 (8.5m proved too much for that fin and it was a killer to
maintain an even point of sail in medium planning conditions). From
6.5-7.5 the Techno was blazingly fast and pretty much smoked anything
else that was encountered that had weed or pointer.
Bigger wind:
Sub 6.5m with decent bumps forming I still much prefer a smaller
(sinker) board. Although the Techno was sailable in 5.5m (25-28)
conditions it was just a bit too harsh and "scary" for my taste.
Mast track:
The track looks like it's in the correct spot on the board, but you
always need to put the mast as far back as possible on the Techno.
Maybe Bic will fine tune the construction for next year, but with this
model your at the insertion point. This position gives the smoothist
and fastest ride without any tail walking or control problems.
Deck pads:
Started peeling the 1st week at Bird (after 8 fresh water sessions at
home and 4 days in the Laguna Madre). Where's my contact cement from
last year - arggggh! Think my booties contributed to the pads coming
off, but sailing without them produced too many foot cuts and the board
was a bit too slippery too.
Durability:
Mine still looks like new except for the strap screw heads chewing holes
through the lycra screw covers. Other boards had their "cheap" decals
scratched to hell along the sides. Although Vicki's boards were the
most abused, they still had no major damaged, just minor nose/side
bruising from catapult artists.
Jonathan M Richardson wrote:
>
>
> In many races around the world I have watched the GS boards fall
> behind in a few heats as the wind failed a bit. Maybe the "problem" is
> that it takes much more skill to keep a GS board planing through a
> hole than a longboard. Add to this the fact that the speed difference
> is very small and that the longboard _will_ point higher, particularly
> with a huge race-centerboard. I have seen it in several races now.
>
> A great example was the Narragansett Bay crossing last year. This is a
> 14 mile race that featured a variety of conditions including
> fully-powered _and_ slogging. None of the GS boards finished. The
> board to beat was an Equipe II. Read it and weep.
>
> I, for one, am hoping that someone will race a GO at one of the course
> races this summer. Given the right conditions it might have a chance!
>
> -Jonathan (US233)
>
> : begin:vcard
> : end:vcard
>
> end:foolishness
Philip Mann
Try Moving the Mast track back a bit, this will product les wettet
surface and the bopard should go faster.
Also a smaller fin than the 48cm (depending on what sail your using)
may be slowing the board down once you are on a plane.
Big fins will help in getting you up on a plane but by using a smaller
fin and pumping ot get on a plane shoond improve top speed
performance.
I would be curiouse to know what size sail you were using when you we
sailing the Techno.
Have Fun,
Philip
Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
http://www.inlandsea.com
1-888-inlandc (465-2632) Toll free
Shop Hours Tues-Sat 11am-7pm EST
Philip Mann
So you were using a 8.5 V8.
I would recommend trying a faster fin in a smaller size.
The Curtis Cr-7 in a 40cm would be a great option.
I have been using one on the Fanatic Bee for 8.5-7.5 sailing and its
plenty to get planing but allows the board to go FAST.
Philip Mann
I also belive that as you spend more time on the Techno you will learn
to make it go faster. These boards are very differenent,
Personally, i can get a long board to go fast. If i were to spend
mopre time on an equipe im sure i woud figure it out and would be able
to get it moving right along.
My experioance is with short boards and a lot of slalom sailing, so
that where i get the most speed.
The point of the "Chunky Monky" boards is high fun factor and spending
more time on the water.
Certainly there are ways to make these boards go fast and it will be a
learnig process for us all.
Bottom line, Fast sailors will alwasy be fast reguardless of what they
are on especially if they are comfotable with the set up.
My recomdation is in the lighter air try new things:
quick tacks;
Snap jibes:
Monkey jibes:
Heli Taks:
Zipping back and forth is fun, but like a moped its really fun to ride
around the block but when you build a ramp and try to jump over 50
matchbox cars THE REAL FUN BEGINS!
Have fun
Philip
Disclaimer- I, bu no means recomend trying to jump your moped over
anything without wearing a helmet.