Repairing a plastic + styrofoam Bic?
James
My buddy Paul, who I recently enticed to join our wonderful sport,
just did grievous damage to the first 3 inches of the nose of his
"new" board; a Bic Samba. There's a funny story and pictures of the
damage here:
http://waterloggeddog.blogspot.com/2008/02/yesterday-i-was-blessed-with-high.html
I'm sure Paul would appreciate some advice on the best way to repair
it. He's handy with fiberglass and epoxy, but I don't know if that
would work on the plastic (?) and meltable styrofoam material of the
board.
-James
Charles Jutkins
for repair instructions and tips.
"James" <d0ug...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f77aa2c2-73df-429d...@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Craig Goudie
and so can't see the damage, but, if your friend sands down
to the thermoplastic surface, fills any voids in the EPS
(with some similar material that won't eat the styro), and then
glasses in several layers with epoxy resin (NOT polyester resin)
he should be OK. Or, if the damage is small,
a tube of epoxy putty (which you can purchase at any hardware store)
can be used. Just sand around the fracture (for a good bond),
knead the putty together, and smash it into the fracture. The stuff
dries
really hard, so try not to use too much excess, unless you don't
care about sanding it off afterwords.
-Craig
On Feb 20, 8:09 am, James <d0ugl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Windsurfers,
>
> My buddy Paul, who I recently enticed to join our wonderful sport,
> just did grievous damage to the first 3 inches of the nose of his
> "new" board; a Bic Samba. There's a funny story and pictures of the
> damage here:
>
> http://waterloggeddog.blogspot.com/2008/02/yesterday-i-was-blessed-wi...
James
fix the errors in it. Kinda like his board. But I'll tell him about
the board lady. :)
a_m...@yahoo.com
it's an ASA or ABS skin, then epoxy and glass will do the trick (as
long as there's good surface preparation and enough contact surface to
effect a good bond). If it's Polyethylene (sounds unlikely, as I don't
think Bic did any of the rotomolding-type stuff), then no duroplast
(such as Epoxy) will bond - you're reduced to using a heat gun for any
kind of repair.
BTW, you probably know this, but with styrofoam cores, you can't use
polyester resin - the styrene in the hardener will melt the foam. You
also have to stay away from really 'hot' epoxy, as high temps will
also melt the foam (but that's more of a concern with things like
inserts and such, where you have a deep pool of resin curing as
opposed to just a surface layer).
-Andreas
James
resin and "hot" epoxy... How does one determine whether an epoxy is
"hot" or not?
PS- Paul's post with pictures of the damage is back online, at least
for now.
http://waterloggeddog.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-not-to-windsurf.html
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Hi James,
The Bic Samba is definitely Thermo formed, and that normally means ASA
skins with a seam around the sides/nos/tail of the board.
So you can repair it quite nicely with regular fiberglass and epoxy
resin.
If the ASA skin is still fairly intact, it might be best to mix up
some foam dust and epoxy resin
and "back fill" under the ASA flaps.
Then work some fiberglass under the "flaps" as well.
Finish it off by taping a couple of layers of fiberglass (saturated in
epoxy resin, West Systems is the easiest to
find and most available. Should be available at West Marine Express in
Gloucester Point) over the ASA flaps and
then sanding/ painting with matching paint.
Here's some info I found on an older Bic Sports site about the Samba:
SAMBA
3,20 m long
0,64 m wide
15 kg weight
170 l volume
allround funboard Type of board
Thermo Construction Technology
90/95 Years produced
It's supposed to have some carbon in the layup under the ASA skins.
I say your blog and if that's Paul's board strapped on the pick up,
then
it looks like the graphics might be pretty good.
Check the graphics for more info on how the board was constructed.
Hope this helps,
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Use the "slow cure" (West Systems 101 I think), mixed to the package
proportions, and you will have
no problems with anything melting, but it will take a while to set up
with the temps the weather guessers
are suggesting for later this week.
Now that I've seen the damage, I must say that's about the "World's
Best" amount of damage for one catapault
I've ever seen.
If the foam is broken off at the rear of the damage, then first thing
would be to work the foam back to where it belongs,
then use something to reinforce the foam core. (Imbed a a couple of
1/4" plywood :spars or something.
Then use a sander to blend in the damage to the undamged areas of the
board adjacent to the damage.
Then use some foam dust or microballons to fair in all the damage
areas back to as close to original as possible.
Then fiberglass the whole thing with at least 2 layers of glass cloth
saturated in epoxy resin.
Saving the ASA "flaps" would not be a good idea with damage this
extensive.Paul will have to use a razor knife and
cut away the loose flaps of ASA that are not still attached to the
core foam, and then cut the foam as carefully as possible to
keep as much of the foam in the original structure as possible.
Hope this helps,
Glenn Woodell
I think he took more off the nose than Paul did but he basically
truncated it. But he's got some regrets about it now. Drop him a note
for his experiences.
I would have been out there somewhere as well but this conference
paper has had me glued to the keyboard for a while. Making good
progress though. :)
Glenn
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:35 -0800 (PST), James <d0ug...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
outdrsmn
> Thanks for the good epoxy advice. Lots of warnings against polyester
> resin and "hot" epoxy... How does one determine whether an epoxy is
> "hot" or not?
James,
To answer your question, mind you I'm not an expert on epoxy,
typically the faster an epoxy cures the more heat it generates.
A thick application will also generate more heat than a thin
application.
Chris
jpr...@gmail.com
West System epoxy will work. I've worked extensively with West System
and I even have the stuff. My biggest worries of material
compatibilities have been alleviated. I'll probably borrow some club
boards until we get some significantly warmer weather, but I'll post
lots of pics of the repairs on my blog.
Best Wishes and Steady Winds,
Paul
moref...@hotmail.com
of that type/era usually sell for $50-$100 or so here; it doesn't take
much time to use that up buying supplies. You have them already, so
thats not an issue, and it would seem wasteful to chuck a board you've
only sailed once or twice; but if the repairs don't 'take' I wouldn't
spend a lot more time and $ on it.
James must be very glad you waited till you had your own board and
didn't take the nose of one of his boards he was loaning you earlier!!
The catapault stage doesn't last very long usually but it can be
expensive! I believe there are some tips like trying to sheet in hard
when you feel yourself going, that ensure you rotate all the way
around the nose to the damage-free area downwind of the board! Easy
to say, hard to do when you are doing everything in your power to
resist getting flung, but apparently its also good practice for
forward loops later!
jpr...@gmail.com
wave surfing for 20 years and boards (even old ones) are usually
several hundred $$$. I guess windsurfing is so much more technical
than wave surfing and so less guys do it, which means less demand, or
maybe it's just because the stuff I have is simply outdated. I don't
know, but I like it for getting into a new hobby without getting a
second mortgage on my house. However, I'm sure I could if I invested
in a whole cache of new gear!
And, yes, I think James and I both are very glad that I did what I did
to my newly acquired used board and not his nice Kona!
Craig Goudie
consider just cutting it off and reglassing what's left.
That's pretty nasty. I've ridden several boards that
were designed with "square" noses.
-Craig
<jpr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8fbf0b46-6244-4f11...@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
John I
> Well, not that I've seen the damage, I might
> consider just cutting it off and reglassing what's left.
> That's pretty nasty. I've ridden several boards that
> were designed with "square" noses.
>
>
> news:8fbf0b46-6244-4f11...@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Thanks so much to everyone for all of this great info! I am so glad
> > West System epoxy will work. I've worked extensively with West System
> > and I even have the stuff. My biggest worries of material
> > compatibilities have been alleviated. I'll probably borrow some club
> > boards until we get some significantly warmer weather, but I'll post
> > lots of pics of the repairs on my blog.
> > Best Wishes and Steady Winds,
> > Paul
Catapults are most common when one hooks in with the harness before
getting in the front strap. I've taught quite a few beginners that
are ready for the strap and hook stage, the ones that religiously
strap the front foot first then hook in catapult less than those that
hook first. Does that make sense?
rku...@srt.com
> Hi Windsurfers,
>
> My buddy Paul, who I recently enticed to join our wonderful sport,
> just did grievous damage to the first 3 inches of the nose of his
> "new" board; a Bic Samba. There's a funny story and pictures of the
> damage here:
>
>
> I'm sure Paul would appreciate some advice on the best way to repair
> it. He's handy with fiberglass and epoxy, but I don't know if that
> would work on the plastic (?) and meltable styrofoam material of the
> board.
>
> -James
James,
Craig may have offered sound advice, the cheapest fastest way fix may
be to simply square it off and seal it with Shoe Goo - Household,
Automotive or Shop Goop - Kiwi Shoe Goo its all the same stuff. It's
the only adhesive that will stick to to Poly and it won't melt Styro,
it's basically a super strong rubber adhesive, think contact cement.
We have a 23 year BIC Wing that has boom damage to the deck the was
repaired with Shoe Goo (from Wal-Mart) 20 years ago and it's still
going strong. Or if asthetics matter to Paul he could square off the
board per Craigs advice and then build a replacement nose the right
shape out of whatever, epoxy or polyester, square it off and glue it
to the board.
Good luck.