Has anyone installed a LASER "drain plug" on a windsurf board ??

[danc...@gmail.com]

I have an old 1996 windsurf board that is gaining water, and am
wondering
if it would be a good idea to install a rubber drain plug designed
for for a LASER sailboat. I've seen the HOBIE style drain plugs,
which are also similar, but the HOBIE plugs require a 1" diameter
hole in your board.

I am doing extensive board repair now, but just in case I don't
succeed,
I want a backup plan.

Although the board has been gaining water for years, the "inner
core does not appear to be damaged".. Its filled with those
little tiny white foam beads (similar to a bean bag) - I think it
is called Expanded PolySytrene (EPS). But it could be
Extruded Polystyrene - who knows - I can't tell the difference.

This drain pug would be mounted on the side rail of the board, and
could
be used to drain excess water that happens to get inside the
board. Simple, just take the rubber plug out, and stand the
board on its side .. and wait 6 months .. :-)

Hole diameter is with 11/16"

Here's is the "LASER drain plug" that I am considering:

http://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=230&products_id=3331&osCsid=6aa716d7a11f2b2835ec092fe1f7a13f

[whitey]

Hi

I think might be less complicated to drill two holes (one for water one
for air flow) and after 6 months stick an epoxy putty into it.
and same procedure every year, drill hole into epoxy and stick again ;-).
or alternatively buy a new board...

--
whitey

[danc...@gmail.com]

Hello Whitey:

Say.. are you the the famous WHITEY that I've seen in the
PETER HART windsurfing videos? :-)

Good suggestion.. I'll think about it... I've already purchased a new
board
(2007 STARBOARD 145 L CARVE), but I love this old 1996 board (AHD 310
that I JUST want to fix it to new condition, and keep sailing it
forever). In fact,
I love the board so much that I bought another used one that was in
better shape than mine.

At the beginning of this summer, I weighed both identical AHD 310
boards.
One weighed 28 lbs, and the other weighed 21 lbs.
(The weight of the 11-year old AHD is only about 1 lb
more than the brand new 2007 STARBOARD in case
you are interested - which tells me that the technology
used on the AHD in 1996 was "way ahead of its time").
I've been draining and repairing the 28 pounder, and its
water fasting diet has resulted in it weighing 22 lbs..
which is pretty good !!! ( For more on where the extra
1 lb of water is hiding.. read the end of this message).

One interesting thing that I've noticed is that I have an
3/8" hole (hole #1) drilled on the rail to allow water draining during
the summer.
I have another hole (hole #2) the size of a QUARTER (usa coin) on the
deck,
which was accidently punctured with my harness hook. The distance
between the rail hole and the deck hole is about 1 foot apart.

Now IF I press my lips to the hole on the rail, and blow hard, I don't
see any signs of "air flow". So either I'm not a very good balloon
blower,
or this suggests to me that the dense packing of the tiny white EPS
foam beads
that comprises the inner core of the board makes it really difficult
for air (and
hence, water) to permeate.

Currently I've taken a cork from a wine bottle, and stuffed into the
deck hole, and plan to use MarineTek and and fiberglass as a patch
to that rail hole.

I have another (hole #3) drilled at the tail end of the board, and
thats
where I'm considering putting the LASER drain plug. The board
has been standing vertically for about one month now, and I know there
is STILL about 1 lb of water in the tail end. But that trapped water
doesn't
want to budge. You might ask me how do I know there is
water in the tail.. I own 2 identical boards made in the same
year. IF I put the board flat on the ground, and lift the tail
end of each board, I can easily see the weight difference.

PS: I had joked with my friends of installing a water spigot on
the tail instead of a LASER drain plug. Not very practical,
and would hurt if I fell on it, but it sure would get some laughs
at the beach...

[whitey]

danc...@gmail.com wrote:

> Say.. are you the the famous WHITEY that I've seen in the
> PETER HART windsurfing videos? :-)

its definitely not me ;-)

> PS: I had joked with my friends of installing a water spigot on
> the tail instead of a LASER drain plug. Not very practical,
> and would hurt if I fell on it, but it sure would get some laughs
> at the beach...

dont forget put somewhere on internet pictures of that drain plug if
you'll decide to go that way

--
whitey

[sm...@fit.edu]

If your board is gaining water, it's because it leaks. Simply put,
windsurf boards are not supposed to leak. Hobie Cats and Lasers are
hollow boats. It's ok if they leak a small amount, and that's why
they have drain plugs.

Windsurf boards (with very few exceptions) are solid foam core. It is
not ok if they leak. If your board leaks, find the source of the
leak, dry the board out, and fix it (probably a crack from an impact,
or a broken footstrap insert).

From the sounds of it though, your board is probably done. 12 years
for one board is a good run, I'd say you got your money's worth. You
can get a modern used board for a couple hundred bucks that doesn't
leak.

sm

> http://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=230&products_id=...

[danc...@gmail.com]

On Sep 10, 10:13 am, sm...@fit.edu wrote:
> If your board is gaining water, it's because it leaks.  Simply put,

I want *MORE*than my moneys worth ... :-)

Also I have strong sentimental attachments to this particular board.
Weird but true.

Also, its a fun hobby to see if I can repair the board to a working
state. Maybe later I can poke fun at the local windsurfing dealer who
told me my board was "toasted and trashed". (dealer name withheld
to protect the guilty).

I've plugged all unused footstrap holes with marineTEK epoxy
resin, but left a small indentation so that the former location
can be found and used at a future date.

Also I repaired a "chip in the air vent hole under the screw", which
could
have been causing the water to enter the tail end.
Last time I put the air vent screw in.. it was really snug !!

Plus, as extra precaution, I've put MarineTEK
on the INSIDE diameter holes for the fins.

Also, found some nicks inside the FIN COMPARTMENT,
and put marine TEK down there too.

Also I drilled out an old rusted FOOT strap screw.. which was not
leaking, but I didn't like the rusty knobby metal, and I didn't
like the sight of rust stains on the rails. (the non-stainless steel
screws
that the AHD factory mistakenly originally installed broke off years
ago, and
have long been replaced with a stainless screws in new footstrap
holes)..

The only other possibility where water might be entering the tail
could be under the EVA foam of the FOOTSTRAP
pads.

I've considered putting some minimal air pressure into the board
and putting soapy water on the exterior to see if there are still
more leaks, but I don't have a way to do this...

[sm...@fit.edu]

Yes I saw on your later posts that this is really just a project board
to see what you can get out of it.

It is a good possibility that if it is a bad footstrap insert, it is
the one you are using, not one of the unused ones. You may have to
use a router to take out the old inserts, repair a crack under the
insert and then install new inserts.

As for putting air pressure on the board, you can put it out in the
sun and look for where water bubbles out. Otherwise, if you really
don't care about the board, you might put the nozzle of an air
compressor up against the vent hole. But the high pressure might just
end up exploding you board....

sm

[ronald]

i have an epoxy kevlar board from the 88 olympics and it was built withe a
plug like that to use as a vent plug
it is on top at the nose of my Larry Tuttle Waterrat D2 board pictures in
iwindsurf ad for sale
if Larry thaught it would work It works

<danc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5e600c5-d094-4b71...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

[Craig Goudie]

I've had project boards in the past. Some were even more badly
damaged than yours.
So, dry it out, find the leak (usually easliy found by leaving the
board out in the sun, and watching where the water oozes out), drill
your holes (or use the ones you have), but I usually drill near
the nose and tail, and then leave the board standing upright for
several months, plug the holes
(with epoxy putty) and sail it till it breaks. EPS absorbs water like
a sponge, and you'll never get it
all out (although we did spin one of mine with pretty good results
once). I also pumped one down
with compressor once, definitely helped, but I still had about 1/2
pound of water in there.

Here's the bad news.

That 1 lb of water you've still got in there expands and contracts a
lot under heat (or cold),
and eventually, it's going to delam the deck or the bottom of your
board. When that happens,
even though you have an emotional attachment to it, you'll find it
pretty unpleasant to sail.
Putting a vent in it and religiously uncorking and recorking between
uses might help it survive longer, good luck with that.

Boards I've rebuilt in this condition have lasted anywhere from 1 to 3
years depending on whether
I've left them out in the sun much or not. I'd never take one off
shore, or on a big body of water.

Might be better to just hang it on your wall, and enjoy it that way.

-Craig

[the principal]

Not all waterlogged boards will delam. The white foam isn't a total
sponge but for windsurfing conversations
it might as well be. Coffee cups are white foam after all,
Delam is most often in the footstrap area because that is where the
discontinuity is and hidden under pads and straps. Once water is in
the tempurature cycle effect attacks the to the weak areas, so bad
foot strap plugs are real thirsty and can render a board a basket
case. Bad noses can just add weight and weakness. Big, on purpose
drying holes added and then patched can do a lot of good. combined
with on purpose tempurature cycling in a sunroom. Just don't miss a
cycle (ask Barry Bonds or Lance A)
A board heavily used on cool day then left in the sun covered in soapy
water after removing footstraps will show
if the plugs are compromised. More often than not the results aren't
pretty on anything from Thailand (Cobra)
That 1996 AHD has a better chance than most.

The Laser/Hobie plug will leak inwards more often than not, especially
dropping a hot board in cool water.
Antoine Albeau won races for 3 years on a hollow AHD. Hollow and EPS
filled are not even close to the same thing.
Poly/injected foam boads can shed and aquire a lot of their water and
stay viable compared to EPS. Different foam.
Easy to see why, put one of each type of foam tethered on the beach at
tide level and observe it over the summer.
Closed cell vs beads. Like my sailing buddies say "Dust is fast"

> > more leaks, but I don't have a way to do this...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[danc...@gmail.com]

On Sep 10, 9:37 pm, the principal <johnsi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Poly/injected foam boads can shed and aquire a lot of their water and
> stay viable compared to EPS. Different foam.
> Easy to see why, put one of each type of foam tethered on the beach at
> tide level and observe it over the summer.
> Closed cell vs beads. Like my sailing buddies say "Dust is fast"

I'm sorry.. I cannot tell if your reference to EPS is
*expanded* Polystyrene or
*extruded* Polystyrene.

How do I tell which one I have inside my board?

I've been researching surfboard repairs for a few months, and
have not yet run across an article which explains what the
difference between expanded and extruded foam is.

And whats the point of puting the teathered foam beads into the tide?
I don't get it .. one sinks and one floats? Or perhaps one
disintegrates
while the other doesn't ? I suspect the tide will wash
both types of foam beads away from shore if I have to watch it all
summer
like you suggest... So what does that prove? In my opinion,
nothing.. I've had a leaky board for over 7 years now, and the
foam is still holding up inside, so I must have the good foam... :-)

Has anyone ever cut open a board just to
take out the soggy beads and dry them?

OR replace soggy foam beads with new fresh lightweight beads?

Can you use the foam beads inside a bean-bag chair..
for the foam core replacement?

Can you just shred a bunch of sytrophome cups into smaller
bits for the new core?

Now curiously, styrofoam cups hold water liquids without
problems, so if foam does disintegrate, then why does the
styrofoam cup hold coffee? That's something to ponder..

I guess I'll have to fill a cup with water, and watch it
all summer ... to see what happens :-)

[danc...@gmail.com]

> styrofoam cup hold coffee?  That's something to ponder..
>
> I guess I'll have to fill a cup with water, and watch it
> all summer ... to see what happens    :-)

I teathered some foam to the tide.. Guess what...
The fish ate it! :-)

[danc...@gmail.com]

I was thinking more about "teather some beads in tidewater" in prior
posts.

Now I remember the one pic that
EVA the board lady had where animal/plant life had started
growing inside a board.

So maybe the point about putting the two
kinds of beads into tidewater is that one kind of beads will
grow ocean life ...while the other won't ....

And what does this have to do with "open cell" or "closed cell" beads?

[danc...@gmail.com]

Definition of "closed cell" used in context found here:

http://www.boardlady.com/fcsinsert.htm

polyurethame foam = CLARK BLANK 1950's surfboard technologoy = closed
cell

And so therefore I guess the opposite "open cell"
is the EPS foam used in new light windsurfing boards.