Wide board vs Longboard under 12 knots
rod.r
I am a child of the wide board era. After 4 1/2 years windsurfing I
have had numerous boards between 85-100cm, mostly Starts, Go's,
FreeFormulas, Ftypes. They have given me a huge amount of TOW and fun.
I currently have a 115L RRD freeride used with 7.6 and 6.4 Simmer 0-7's
for 12 knots and up, and a FreeFormula 158 used with a 9.0 Simmer 0-7
for anything under. I sail mostly in a tidal inlet with flat to small
chop conditions but equally available to me is either open sea or inner
harbour.
I'm finding that in under 12 knots in the flat water venue that BAFFING
starts to become, dare I say it, boring! It's planing for the sake of
it. And when it's marginal, being on and off the plane just isn't fun.
The few times I've tried the open sea or harbour I'm either
underpowered and banging down between each piece of chop/swell or well
powered and getting bounced around. I just can't seem to get a good
ride. (obviously lack of skill plays a part here but you gotta go with
what you got).
I'm wondering whether the new breed of longboard like the Kona might be
a good alternative for me but I have no longboard experience. It seems
like in harbour / open sea in under 12 knots it would be really good.
At the flat water venue I guess I'd be giving up some sub 12 knot
planing.
And what about an older longboard if I can't afford a new longboard?
Advice appreciated.
regards,
rod
(perpetual 80 kg 40 year old intermediate)
Mark Paine
If you find back-and-forthing to be unfulfilling might I suggest
rigging up a smaller, yes, smaller sail when it's under 12 knots and
doing some light wind freestyle.
I think you'll find that the Kona might ride a little bit smoother than
your alternatives in the chop but if you're not having fun in those
conditions I'm not sure it's worth the bother and the expense.
If you rig up a 5.5 or a 6.0 on the FreeFormula you can practice some
lightwind freestyle on the flat water. Sail 360s, heli-tacks, backwind
jibes, sail and body 360s, lee-side sailing, Haas tacks, back to the
sail, trick waterstarts (a nice skill to have), etc. Not everyone
enjoys light wind freestyle, but since you mention that you're getting
bored in sub-planing to marginal conditions, you might be a good
candidate, especially since it sounds like you really enjoy being on
the water. You'll spend plenty of time getting wet, perhaps scuff up
your shins and knees and nick your wetsuit, but there's no doubt your
skills will improve, and a lot of the skills you force yourself to
learn will translate to higher winds.
Longboarding can be a lot of fun even though other folks might not be
so into it. I love to go out and just cruise around with the sea
turtles, rays, and barracudas here in Bonaire during our light wind
season, but even then I seem to prefer to get back on my TwinTip 105
and play around with light-wind spocks, free willys, lolly pops, and
pile drivers, even if it's just blowing 11 or 12 knots.
Just a suggestion. I hope you find something to keep yourself amused.
Good luck,
Mark Paine
rod.r
Thanks Mark. That is a good suggestion. It's one of those things that i
know i should do to further my general skills but i usually end up
rigging big to chase the plane.
i guess it's not so much being bored, although that can come into it,
as putting all my eggs in the planing basket when the conditions often
dissapoint and there ends up being more slogging than expected.
I see the Kona or similar as being a board which can be fun when
planing if the wind climbs during a light wind session but also be fun
when the wind drops to sub planing FF conditions. tha way for instance
if i choose to go out on the open harbour I can be always moving at a
comfortable pace hooked in moving on and off the plane at will rather
than the stop start affair it can be on the FF in marginal conditions.
rku...@ndak.net
rod.r wrote:
> ...... out on the open harbour I can be always moving at a
> comfortable pace hooked in moving on and off the plane at will rather
> than the stop start affair it can be on the FF in marginal conditions.
Rod,
You've got it figured out.
Have fun.
Ray
snow...@gmail.com
Amokaman
The difference in wind speeds needed for planing (BAF sailing) on my
short wide Bic Techno II 82 (160 liter) and my Mistral Prodigy (255
liter) with the same size sail is very minimal. However, here are a
couple other reasons I like to sail the larger boards.
Part of the joy of owning a long board or Hybrid board is being able to
go exploring upwind. I sail in a bay where it's fun to cross over to
the other side which is near a 5 mile jaunt. The normal wind direction
makes the first leg of that crossing an upwind affair.
In early spring and late fall when the water is cold I'm windsurfing on
the Prodigy as my feet are out of the water and it's near impossible to
fall off that super wide deck.
I can also use the Prodigy for racing, I'm lucky as there is a good
sized Prodigy fleet in my neck of the woods.
Practicing racing is an activity that can be done in very light and
heavy air conditions. Pinching up wind hard and sailing off the wind
hard is something one can do other then baffing. So you have two
whole new directions you can go on the water.
visit www.prodigyonedesign.org for some more information on racing
Scott
Jean-Marie
If of interest,I am selling an old Mistral Equipe (XCS-XR) that is
truly in excellent condition. The mast track was replaced w/ one that
takes a standard screw-in base. It is the pintail type, 240l. Anybody
that has sailed this will tell you that it is fast. There is a decent
fin on it. Available for pick-up in Stamford (CT).. I will be glad to
let it go for $250. Let me know if interest and good sailing!
Jean-Marie
jt
considering a hybrid or longboard. For me on inland lakes with
relatively light and gusty winds, a centerboard is nice to get around
the lake. Under typical conditions I may actually get more planing
because I can put the centerboard down in the lulls to get upwind and
then retract it to bear off and plane in the gusts.
I have sailed the Prodigy, the Kona Style, and the Mistral One Design
(IMCO). Our local club has Prodigys and I own both a Kona and an IMCO.
Some considerations on the hybrid/longboard question are:
1.Are you interested in trying racing, which can both be fun and
improve your sailing? If so, the most important consideration is what,
if anything, is raced in your part of the world? The Prodigy is raced
both as a one design and as a hybrid. The newer Kona is registered as
a longboard and also raced as a one design (I gather in significant
numbers in France).
2.Transporting and storing the board. Do you plan to car-top the
board, use a trailer (enclosed for storage as well as transport?), or
put the board inside a station wagon/estate car, a minivan, or a full
size van? How many boards and other passengers would you take for a
sailing session? What about storage at home? Do you have a garage
where a larger board could be hoisted up and out of the way?
3. The sailing experience on a wider and shorter hybrid (Prodigy,
Pacer, Techno 293, and others) vs. longer and narrower longboard (Kona,
Kona Mahalo if you are a big guy or want to take someone smaller along
sailing tandem with two sails, Kona Surf if you want smaller) are both
be different from your F-type and different from each other.
Sailboard stability is continuum that what one person likes another may
not. It is similar to riding a tricycle vs two-wheel bike with
training wheels vs fat tire mountain bike vs narrow tire road bike vs a
unicycle. The Prodigy is really stable at 255 liters and 85 cm wide
with thick hard rails; its sort of a two wheel bike with training
wheels. It was perfect for me learning to use a harness. However,
with time I much preferred sailing the club's Mistral IMCO longboards
because they were faster to windward, faster in sub planning
conditions, were more responsive to sailor input (only 64.5 cm wide,
easier to rail), and just went better with the largest sail the club
had (only one 8 or 8.5 m sail).
For me, the Kona Style is a nice compromise, sort of a mountain bike
with moderate width tires and clipless pedals. Compared to the IMCO it
is easier to jibe, may plane a bit earlier, and is slightly more stable
(220 liters, 70 cm). It fits inside my minivan on shelf racks better
than either the IMCO (too long) or a Prodigy (too wide for its length)
with a passenger seat available behind the driver. I park the minivan
in the ramp at work, no worries about vandalism, and leave directly for
sailing.
The Mistral Equipe mentioned above is reputed to be a nice, fast
longboard. With the mast track already changed so that you will not
have to deal with finding parts, this might be a good way to go if you
live in the Northeast USA.
Some links:
Racing:
http://www.raceboard.org/page0001v01.htm
http://www.sailing.org/default.asp?PID=13829
Exocet Kona family of boards, the new Warp 380 dedicated raceboard,
Pacer Hybrids:
http://www.exocet-original.com/kona-windsurfing/
http://www.exocet-original.com/
Mistral One Design:
http://www.imco.org/page0001v01.htm
Bic Techno 293
http://www.techno293.org/
rod.r
Zealand so I appreciate the offer of the longboard but fear it's a
little far to go to pick up :-).
At least it sounds like I'm not out of the ball park with my thinking.
Having only started this great sport 5 years ago at 35 I have long
suspected that if I had taken it up at 20 when it was at it's peak I
would have been an avid longboarder so maybe that;s where this is
coming from.
I am considering an older longboard like the IMCO but they still
command a reasonable price and I'm a little weary of the whole spare
parts issue which is why the Kona appeals because it's looks fairly
simple with not too many moving parts.
There's not much of a racing presence here but i would race if at all
possible. I see it more as a way to have fun on the water in almost any
conditions up to the point I can be having fun on the 7.6 and 115L
board, something the FF158 can't always deliver.
We also have some nice local destinations across the harbour and
further out to some reasonably sheltered islands which would be pretty
cool to be able to visit.
As said above, often is just about being out on the water, not always
about going mach 10.
cosmicharlie
it worthy of putting up. You should be able to find something long for
less than US$250, but I don't know what the WSing scene was like in
N.Z. back in the heyday.
cosmicharlie
>>I'm a little weary of the whole spareparts issue which is why the
Kona appeals because it's looks fairly
on'line retaillers based in the states that carry plenty of old spare
parts. Shipping isn't all that expensive for light weight items,
either. Try to optain a Mistral board as WSHatteras.com has an
extensive collection of spare parts. However, there isn't a lot to
worry about with older boards. You must make sure a modern foot will
fit, although I converted a brand specific base to a modern cup for my
first board. If you have an operable fit for the foot to the board, a
dagger that is retractable, and a fin that solidly fits the box, and
footstraps you will not regret it. I've made footstrap covers myself
and put them on older pre-adjustable and screw-in straps. However, if
you have good inserts in your board, you can put new straps on it.
Sets sell on E-bay often for less than $30. You can still optain old
A-box fins in large sizes on E-bay, too.
THIS@rogers.com Nick Cox
We have a VERY active longbaord fleet and can often get out 15-20 people on
longboards for a Wed. night race. Many have chosen to put the new RS-X sail
(9.5) on their boards while others have gone even larger (10.0). Very often
these guys find that they can plane in under 12.0 knots. But when it comes
to winning races what was proven very clearly this year is that it's not the
equipment you have but sailor skill, since the top two racers in the club
this season won with 7.5's. The longboard is still a hugely popular board
here since we get very light and fluky winds for a lot of the summer and the
board just extends your time on the water and in sub-planing conditions it
is a whole lot more fun than slogging around on a wide board. A lot of
beginners love to board too since it gives them confidence going upwind.
Although when making the transition from a wide board back to a longboard
even for seasoned sailors it can prove interesting at times (especially when
gybing at speed - watch that first step!!)
Cheers,
Nick Cox
"rod.r" <r...@sraa.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1160374552....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
rod.r
Kona that would be my most likely alternative.
I have worked out that I can get a fully rigged IMCO for about 70% of
the cost of a new Kona board.
My other thought was that if I assume I can be on my 115L board and 7.6
at around 12 knots then the whole longboard idea becomes a non-planing
option, as neither the Kona or IMCO, from my understanding would plane
much below that with my 9m.
Therefore I might be better off going for the best non-planing board -
IMCO
But the Kona sure does look perdy :-)
rod.r
KonaStyle, the EVA covered Exocet longboard.
I have only spent a couple of hours on it so far but it looks like it's
going to be a great board. Both sessions have been in conditions where
I wouldn't have gone out on either my 115L freeride or FF158, once due
to wind direction and distant wind line and once due to lack of wind.
Both sessions on the Kona were enjoyable and I see this as a big plus
for the board, turning bad or no sessions into something more.
It is heavy for sure, and in powered 7.6 conditions I'd probably rather
be on the 115L board for B&F sailing at my flat water spot. I haven't
used it yet with my 9m due to curent lack of a 490 mast but hope to do
so soon with good results I'm sure.
I'd say the key word is versatile, and can see it being used with my
6.4/7.6 and 9m in all sorts of conditions.
Bill (NC/ME)
kurt
Yes. Keep us informed of your experience w/this board, please. It
looms as the most attractive of the many options.
I've been looking Kona, Serenity, or just keeping the Fanatic Cat Lite
I picked up @ a garage sale last year for "those times". The only
problem w/the Fanatic is it's not really longboard/wave ridable like
the Kona is supposed to be, no?
My quiver sounds very similar to yours; FF 158, a 121 Carve, and a 100l
bump & jump; the big board would be the final link.
(PeteCresswell)
>Yes. Keep us informed of your experience w/this board, please. It
>looms as the most attractive of the many options.
I'm in the same boat - except I've pretty much decided on a Carve 144 for my big
board next year. Not too late to change my mind though.... as long as my guy
can get a Kona for me.
--
PeteCresswell
rod.r
session this afternoon if the wind holds.
It's hard to recommend the Kona in a way because it requires a
different mindset than other shorter wider boards. If you are like me
over the 5 years I have been windsurfing, and have put all your eggs in
the "planing" basket, you have to approach the Kona from a different
perspective because non planing fun plays a much bigger part.
One thing I have noticed is that I am much less of a "weather watcher"
than I was before, because I know with the Kona that I can get a
session as long as there is some sort of breeze more than a few knots.
Ok it's not going to be too exciting in 5 knots but a heck of a lot
better than a schlog fest on the FF in the same conditions.
My low wind session the other day wouldn't have been in more than 5
knots, but on a sunny summer evening having a friendly drag race with a
2 man sailing dinghy in 5 knots is actually quite fun.
regards,
rod
Florian Feuser
> I've been looking Kona, Serenity, or just keeping the Fanatic Cat Lite
How does the Kona compare to the original one-design windsurfer?
I am really curious, not kidding.
Florian
rku...@ndak.net
Florian,
There is a poster (Chris 249) from OZ on Exocet's Kona forum who is
deeply involved in racing the original Windsurfer OD design who says
for starters that the Kona turns better than the Windsurfer OD and may
be more fun when doing old school freestyle.
Ray
Dan Weiss
Hi Florian: here is a link to reviews of the Kona, including one I
wrote after racing it two weeks ago.
http://www.calema.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=186
-Dan
Steven Slaby
> Yes. Keep us informed of your experience w/this board, please. It
> looms as the most attractive of the many options.
>
> I've been looking Kona, Serenity, or just keeping the Fanatic Cat Lite
> I picked up @ a garage sale last year for "those times". The only
> problem w/the Fanatic is it's not really longboard/wave ridable like
> the Kona is supposed to be, no?
>
> My quiver sounds very similar to yours; FF 158, a 121 Carve, and a 100l
> bump & jump; the big board would be the final link.
Yesterday I looked at a Kona at Ride Hatteras and nearly had a hernia
trying to lift it up. I'm going to stick with my FF158, and use my old
longboard for messing around in super light winds when there is not enough
to plan on the FF.
That eva deck is nice but I'm guessing it adds quite a bit of weight to
the board.
Steve.
rod.r
I enjoyed your report. I don't intend to use the Kona for racing,
although if we get enough of them locally I'd love to have a go. Sounds
like a lot of fun. My primary reason to get the Kona to replace my
FF158 was to cover both planing and non planing conditions with my 9m
and since I still haven't used my 9m on it yet the jury is still out.
What is your feeling about the early planing potential vs a FF type
board as that was my biggest concern losing too much planing time?
Steve
I don't disagree with you. The board is heavy and in ideal FF158
conditions the FF is probably more exciting, but conditions are seldom
ideal. If I had the room and the money I probably would have kept my FF
and bought a longboard as well. I read that the Kona is the master at
turning average sessions into good sessions and my gut feeling is that
is right. I believe the Kona will be so darn easy and versatile, I'll
go to it time after time because I know I'll get a decent session.
Things I learned yesterday in a gusty overpowered 6.4 lake session.
1. 6.4 overpowered is no problem for the Kona.
2. Planing out of the straps and harness when way overpowered is
actually comfortable
3. Planing in the straps and harness when overpowered is quite fast in
a runaway barge kind of way
4. Don't attempt to stand on the leeward side of your car and lift a
Kona onto the roof in 5.5 conditions. The weight of the board nearly
knocked me onto my back when it caught the wind. I had to take several
steps backward and nearly lost it.
Dan Weiss
planing far longer than the Kona. This opinion comes from sailing the
Kona from the perspective of FW sailing, and a background in high
performance longboards before that. Comparing the Kona to each, and
then extrapolating from the FW to FF, I would say that the lighter
weight and design intentions of a FF board allow it to be pumped onto a
plane and stay on a plane earlier and longer because of the lower
apparent wind speed available on a Kona. For example, the Kona (using
the supplied Aerotech 7.4 RAF sail) was not able to maintain a plane as
deep as the FW and FE boards present on the first day with wind. That
means to me that the Kona requires a lot more power than I could supply
that day. What that doesn't mean is the Kona cannot improve its
planing threshold with some changes in fin/rig. I also noted the
Kona's inferior planing ability compared to several performance
longboards as well as the Prodigy (a board not exactly known for early
planing in its own right).
If what you want is a board primarily for subplaning fun that knows how
to get out of its own way when the wind kicks up, the Kona is a very
nice ride indeed. If more planing time is what you are after, I
suggest sticking with a shortboard setup with this design focus or
obtain a performance longboard a.k.a raceboard. Examples include the
Equipe 2 XR, the white F2 longboard with a winger pintail (circa 1999),
and the big blue AHD 345. You might also consider a hybrid with a
planing focus. Anyway you slice it, there are always compromises to be
made, but lots of fun to be had. I really liked my time on the Kona
but it certainly is not the end all be all windsurfer.
-Dan
rod.r
I guess until I get some 9m time on the Kona I can't judge how I feel
about the loss of low end planing I have lost with not having the
FF158. The FF was the last in a long line of largish boards that I used
with either the 9m or my previous biggest sail which was an 8.5m, and
while it planed earlier than anything else it wasn't necessarily the
most fun just because it planed the earliest. For a time I had a 2005
Starsurfer M which at 235 x 85 x 140L was very quick but far from an
earlier planer, but was probably the most fun big board I ever owned.
Interestingly I had the opportunity to get a new 2006 Exocet pacer
instead of the Kona which was actually cheaper but I felt it ws too
close to the 85-100cm wide boards I had previously owned.
It almost seems to me that the likes of the pacer could be seen as a
"formula" based hybrid and the Kona could be seen as a "longboard"
based hybrid rather than a longboard in it's own right.
Either way, after a string of race based boards and sails I have gone
in the other direction with the Kona and my 115L RRD freeride boards
and RAF sails and my new catch words are "easy" and "fun" - I'm hoping
the Kona will conform to both with ease :-).
(PeteCresswell)
>a gusty overpowered 6.4 lake session.
Could you carve gybes or did you have to stretch them out?
--
PeteCresswell
rod.r
even one carve jibe. I have never carved a complete jibe on any board
but have done some reasonable wally jibes where I almost came out
planing.
But I had an interesting experience during my first short session in
moderately powered 7.6 conditions. I only attempted 2 jibes and both
times as I applied pressure to the leeward rail and sheeted in and
headed nearly downwind, me and the rig and the board just kept on
rolling until I went in with the rig and the board was upside down.
This has never happened to me before on any board no matter how bad the
jibe. It just felt like once I started the board banking into the turn
it didn't stop until it turned upside down. Don't know for the life of
me why it happened.
Apart from that, the board turned very well and surprisingly tight for
something 350cm long.
Steven Slaby
> Steve
>
> I don't disagree with you. The board is heavy and in ideal FF158
> conditions the FF is probably more exciting, but conditions are seldom
> ideal. If I had the room and the money I probably would have kept my FF
> and bought a longboard as well. I read that the Kona is the master at
> turning average sessions into good sessions and my gut feeling is that
> is right. I believe the Kona will be so darn easy and versatile, I'll
> go to it time after time because I know I'll get a decent session.
This morning I saw Roger's serenity board, which looks like a sea kayak or
catamarn pontoon and it was LIGHT! If you are looking to optimize for
really light non-planing conditions then I would consider that
since it looks like its designed for displacement sailing.
I didn't get out on it for a test-ride (doing another sport today) but
Roger said he was flying on it at the Canadian Hole with a rooster tail
coming off the back with a 7.0? sail.
Steve.
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
> "rod.r" (r...@sraa.co.nz) writes:
>
>>Steve
>>
>>I don't disagree with you. The board is heavy and in ideal FF158
>>conditions the FF is probably more exciting, but conditions are seldom
>>ideal. If I had the room and the money I probably would have kept my FF
>>and bought a longboard as well. I read that the Kona is the master at
>>turning average sessions into good sessions and my gut feeling is that
>>is right. I believe the Kona will be so darn easy and versatile, I'll
>>go to it time after time because I know I'll get a decent session.
>
>
> This morning I saw Roger's serenity board, which looks like a sea kayak or
> really light non-planing conditions then I would consider that
> since it looks like its designed for displacement sailing.
>
> I didn't get out on it for a test-ride (doing another sport today) but
> Roger said he was flying on it at the Canadian Hole with a rooster tail
> coming off the back with a 7.0? sail.
>
> Steve.
>
It wasn't precisely "Serenity conditions", but with the Severne "Glide"
7.5 m2 rig (designed specifically for the Serenity and very light wind
conditions) the Serenity was indeed "flying".
Wind was about 7-10 knots, and the Serenity leapt onto a "Serenity
plane" where the bow wave moves back to just about under the mast foot.
Interesting thing is that the Serenity does not "sink the tail" in this
mode. The tail of the board stays pretty much at the same level, and a
bit of a "rooster tail" (about 9"-1 foot high) comes off the sharp tail
of the board and "squirts" off to leeward a bit.
This was using a 40 cm Wolfgang Lessacher "DUO" formula weedfin, 7.5 m2
Severne Glide, Severne "Redline" 460/25 mast and an HPL Slalom boom
with adj. outhaul and harness lines.
Other sailors on 7.5 m2 rigs (one on a 340 cm F2 Phoenix/7.5 m2 SW
Retro), were not planing much at all and the Serenity was clearly quite
a bit faster and much better upwind.
I also sailed the new Starboard Phantom longboard and it was faster (on
a full plane with the CB up) than the 340 Phoenix/Retro combo.
I'm looking for a light wind race somewhere in Florida so I can compare
these 2 boards to the Prodigy and Kona around a race course.
Mu guess is that in sub planing conditions (up to around 6-7 knots) the
Serenity is going to be really fast.
In 6 knots and up, the Phantom may do pretty well against the Prodigy
and Kona.
As Steve suggests, if you want a board thats both challenging and fin,
in the lightest winds, the Serenity is probably the only board on the
market that's really fun in < 6 knots.
Hope this helps,
Charles L.
Roger,
Don't go to Florida. Or go there, but come to Raleigh as well! The
TBC is having its final race for the '06 season 12/2 or 12/3 (whichever
is windier) on Jordan Lake. There's a place made for the Serenity if
ever there was one. You'd probably end up having good competition with
at least one Equipe II and one old Superlight, as well as a host of
older long boards and formula/freeformula boards. We'd love to see how
the Serenity stacks up -- we even just had an extended thread about the
"ultimate Jordan board":
http://tbc.bme.duke.edu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Discussions;action=display;num=1162656676
For more on the TBC race series:
http://triangleboardsailing.com/tbc/bulletin.html
Come join us -- the improvements to Hwy 64 make it easier than ever!
Charles
ran...@aol.com
So when do the Serenity boards become available in the US?
On Nov 9, 11:41 am, "sailquik (Roger Jackson)"
<sailq...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Steven Slaby wrote:
> > "rod.r" (r...@sraa.co.nz) writes:
>
> >>Steve
>
> >>I don't disagree with you. The board is heavy and in ideal FF158
> >>conditions the FF is probably more exciting, but conditions are seldom
> >>ideal. If I had the room and the money I probably would have kept my FF
> >>and bought a longboard as well. I read that the Kona is the master at
> >>turning average sessions into good sessions and my gut feeling is that
> >>is right. I believe the Kona will be so darn easy and versatile, I'll
> >>go to it time after time because I know I'll get a decent session.
>
> > This morning I saw Roger's serenity board, which looks like a sea kayak or
> > catamarn pontoon and it was LIGHT! If you are looking to optimiglide ze for
> > really light non-planing conditions then I would consider that
> > since it looks like its designed for displacement sailing.
>
> > I didn't get out on it for a test-ride (doing another sport today) but
> > Roger said he was flying on it at the Canadian Hole with a rooster tail
> > coming off the back with a 7.0? sail.
>
> > Steve.Hi All,
> Hope this helps,- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
sail...@mindspring.com
I still have to go to Florida, but I'll try to make it back in time for
your race at Jordan.
It's gonna be cold, right?
Be fun to sail/race with the TBC sailors again.
Got the dates marked on my calendar!
Bill (NC/ME)
Seriously, then my wife could see if she likes it!
On Nov 9, 8:55 pm, "sailq...@mindspring.com" <sailq...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
> Hi Charles,
> I still have to go to Florida, but I'll try to make it back in time for
> your race at Jordan.
> It's gonna be cold, right?
> Be fun to sail/race with the TBC sailors again.
> Got the dates marked on my calendar!
>
> Charles L. wrote:
> > Roger,
>
> > Don't go to Florida. Or go there, but come to Raleigh as well! The
> > TBC is having its final race for the '06 season 12/2 or 12/3 (whichever
> > is windier) on Jordan Lake. There's a place made for the Serenity if
> > ever there was one. You'd probably end up having good competition with
> > at least one Equipe II and one old Superlight, as well as a host of
> > older long boards and formula/freeformula boards. We'd love to see how
> > the Serenity stacks up -- we even just had an extended thread about the
> > "ultimate Jordan board":
>
> >http://tbc.bme.duke.edu/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Discussions;action...
sail...@mindspring.com
According to the USA Starboard distributor (Trident Sports) the initial
shipment
of the Serenity is completely sold out!
Another shipment is due in near the end of December, so check with your
local Staboard
retailer and get your order in for a Serenity in Wood (really
beautiful) or the Sport Tec Construction.
As I said before, might be the board that will get you by far the most
TOW for Atlanta area
conditions.
You folks have any events coming up soon?
Hope this helps,
R,
ran...@aol.com wrote:
> So when do the Serenity boards become available in the US?
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 11:41?am, "sailquik (Roger Jackson)"
> <sailq...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Steven Slaby wrote:
> > > "rod.r" (r...@sraa.co.nz) writes:
> >
> > >>Steve
> >
> > >>I don't disagree with you. The board is heavy and in ideal FF158
> > >>conditions the FF is probably more exciting, but conditions are seldom
> > >>ideal. If I had the room and the money I probably would have kept my FF
> > >>and bought a longboard as well. I read that the Kona is the master at
> > >>turning average sessions into good sessions and my gut feeling is that
> > >>is right. I believe the Kona will be so darn easy and versatile, I'll
> > >>go to it time after time because I know I'll get a decent session.
> >
> > > This morning I saw Roger's serenity board, which looks like a sea kayak or
> > > catamarn pontoon and it was LIGHT! If you are looking to optimiglide ze for
> > > really light non-planing conditions then I would consider that
> > > ?since it looks like its designed for displacement sailing.
> >
> > > I didn't get out on it for a test-ride (doing another sport today) but
> > > Roger said he was flying on it at the Canadian Hole with a rooster tail
> > > coming off the back with a 7.0? sail.
> >
> > > Steve.Hi All,
> > It wasn't precisely "Serenity conditions", but with the Severne "Glide"
> > 7.5 m2 rig (designed specifically for the Serenity and very light wind
> > conditions) the Serenity was indeed "flying".
> > Wind was about 7-10 knots, and the Serenity leapt onto a "Serenity
> > plane" where the bow wave moves back to just about under the mast foot.
> > Interesting thing is that the Serenity does not "sink the tail" in this
> > mode. The tail of the board stays pretty much at the same level, and a
> > bit of a "rooster tail" (about 9"-1 foot high) comes off the sharp tail
> > of the board and "squirts" off to leeward a bit.
> > This was using a 40 cm Wolfgang Lessacher "DUO" formula weedfin, 7.5 m2
> > Severne Glide, Severne ?"Redline" 460/25 mast and an HPL Slalom boom
sail...@mindspring.com
Did you have the centerboard down when you attempted these jibes where
the board turned over?
When the CB is down, you need to "roll" your board to the outside of
the
corner. The CB being down will allow you to start a jibe, but when you
get nearly straight downwind, the CB tends to straighten the board out,
and then it "bites" on the other side and often you get the "dropped in
the water" result.
This is a technique issue, and polishing up your old longboard skills,
especially the "reverse
banking" longboard flare jibe will have you completing your Kona jibes
real soon.
I sailed the Kona once, with a 5.6 m2 SW Hucker, and I thought it
rocked in about 13-16 knots. I was keeping up with smaller short boards
with the Kona up on the step with the big CB retracted. Went upwind OK
in this mode as well. Jibing (with the CB up, was a bit of a "long
drawn out affair" but I did not find the Kona particularly difficult to
get around a large radius almost planing jibe.
I'm really a bit surprised at Dan's report that the Prodigy's were
beating the Kona.
I'm wondering if there was a big disparity on sail sizes, or maybe the
Prodigy folks have been sailing that board long enough that they've
developed better skills.
I think if the conditions were not sufficient for the Prodigy's to
plane the results would have been alot different.
R
ran...@aol.com
Nothing organized planned for Atl. for a while looks like I'll have to
go somewhere else to see the Serenity. We just had our fall race a few
weeks ago - would have been the perfect showcase for a 15 ft board!
As for the Prodigy vs. Kona - there was a sail size mismatch at the Ft
Walton regatta. The Kona's ran 7.4, compared to 8.5 for Prodigy and
the FW guys were probably on even bigger sails. Also, most of the
Kona's were chartered, and the Prodigy Fleet was pretty experienced
(Not to mention the Prodigy guys were racing for actual prize money.
That probably amped them up a bit!!)
ran...@aol.com
Nothing organized planned for Atl. for a while looks like I'll have to
go somewhere else to see the Serenity. We just had our fall race a few
weeks ago - would have been the perfect showcase for a 15 ft board!
As for the Prodigy vs. Kona - there was a sail size mismatch at the Ft
Walton regatta. The Kona's ran 7.4, compared to 8.5 for Prodigy and
the FW guys were probably on even bigger sails. Also, most of the
Kona's were chartered, and the Prodigy Fleet was pretty experienced
(Not to mention the Prodigy guys were racing for actual prize money.
That probably amped them up a bit!!)
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
So you were at the Fall Shootout/Showdown, right?
What were the Open class boards that Mark Boersma and others sailed?
RSX's or what?
I'll let you know when I'm next coming through Atlanta!
R
rod.r
No, CB was up so it's not that.
I don't have any "old longboard skills". That's the problem :-)))
ran...@aol.com
a 9.5 sail (he said that was his smallest.) I don't know what most
others were on. There was a F2 Race 380 there, and some IMCO's for
sure, but I hard a hard time figuring out who was in what class.
There were a good number of formula boards, including the innovative
"Home Depot" board (home made, or should I say custom) -looked a lot
like the Apollo.
On Nov 9, 10:29 pm, "sailquik (Roger Jackson)"
<sailq...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hi Randy,
> So you were at the Fall Shootout/Showdown, right?
> What were the Open class boards that Mark Boersma and others sailed?
> RSX's or what?
> I'll let you know when I'm next coming through Atlanta!
> R
>
>
>
> rand...@aol.com wrote:
> > Roger,
>
> > Nothing organized planned for Atl. for a while looks like I'll have to
> > go somewhere else to see the Serenity. We just had our fall race a few
> > weeks ago - would have been the perfect showcase for a 15 ft board!
>
> > As for the Prodigy vs. Kona - there was a sail size mismatch at the Ft
> > Walton regatta. The Kona's ran 7.4, compared to 8.5 for Prodigy and
> > the FW guys were probably on even bigger sails. Also, most of the
> > Kona's were chartered, and the Prodigy Fleet was pretty experienced
> > (Not to mention the Prodigy guys were racing for actual prize money.
> > That probably amped them up a bit!!)
>
> >>>something 350cm long.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Dan Weiss
board was white with purple graphics-like from when they were made in the
Gorge. Equipe 2s appeared, as did IMCOs I don't recall seeing to many of
the new generation hybrids, if any.
-Dan
"sailquik (Roger Jackson)" <sail...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:OmS4h.4533$0r....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
wave2sail
advice. Really good stuff.
My best regards to all
Don McCormick