Difference in planing and stability between wave and freeride sails (same size)

[marek]

Hi there,

Pity there is so much spam on r.w.
Anyway, say I have a choice between 2 sails of the same size, one is
wave another one is freeride (lower foot). Above the boom there are
exactly the same construction.
What differences can I expect in:
- early planing
- stability
- speed

Does lower foot help in early planing?
I'd guess it helps with stability as the force coming from the sail is
more distributed and comes from the lower parts of the sail, so easier
to handle (?).
I guess wave sail will be slower as you cannot "close the gap".
For sure it will be easier to jibe and waterstart.

What do you think?

-marek

[Dan Weiss]

Marek: In general, wave sails plane very easily when pumping but are
limited in their top speed compared to freeride sails. It is true
that a lower aspect sail will often feel more powerful on the low end
compared to a wave sail but not always. For example, a low clew tends
to create more twist in the lower leach which inhibits pumping and the
sort of back-hand pressure that people describe as feeling more
powerful. A longer boom length is really what makes sails get up and
go from the bottom end.

A lower clew does not necessarily equate to a lower center of effort
or easy handling. In fact, wave sails are second only to dedicated
freestyle sails when it comes to easy handling. Freeride sails
usually offer greater stability at speed. When you think about it,
stability at speed is one way to think about easy handling, too.

As for closing the gap, I think that matching the sail's intended
sweep angle (how far aft the sail is designed to lean) to the board's
rocker line has much more to do with top speed than merely closing the
gap. Closing the gap is important as it does offer the promise of
greater power, but if your sail is not tuned to the rest of your gear
all that extra power means nothing.

It will help to tell us what sails your are considering along with the
board on which you intend to use the sail.

[marek]

On 16 Paź, 14:52, Dan Weiss <dwus...@comcast.net> wrote:
[...]

> It will help to tell us what sails your are considering along with the
> board on which you intend to use the sail.

Thanks.
The question was somewhat theoretical, but one example would be Ezzy
Wave Panther (former Wave SE) and Ezzy Free(ride)3:

http://www.ezzy.com/sails/panther09.php
http://www.ezzy.com/sails/freeride09.php

Say I'd want to get 5.5 - they both rig on 430 mast.
I don't care that much about top speed but I like "locked-in" feel
when sailing.
On the other hand 5.5 weather is pretty rare and extreme to me, so I
want a sail that is easiest to handle (waterstarts, jibes).

-marek

[marek]

P.S. My board is freeride Tabou Rocket 125/69cm, my weight 90kg,
flat&choppy water (board specs say 5.5 is min. so I know it's a little
too big but I don't plan to get a new board soon).

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per marek:

>The question was somewhat theoretical, but one example would be Ezzy
>Wave Panther (former Wave SE) and Ezzy Free(ride)3:
>
>http://www.ezzy.com/sails/panther09.php
>http://www.ezzy.com/sails/freeride09.php
>
>Say I'd want to get 5.5 - they both rig on 430 mast.
>I don't care that much about top speed but I like "locked-in" feel
>when sailing.
>On the other hand 5.5 weather is pretty rare and extreme to me, so I
>want a sail that is easiest to handle (waterstarts, jibes).

This is from a not-particularly-accomplished sailor who needs all
the help from equipment that they can get.

My big sail (7.5) is a freeride, but only bc I couldn't find a
wave sail that big.

Last year I changed all my other freerides for Ezzy Wave SE's:
6.9, 6.3, 5.2, and an existing 4.7.

I think the wave sails are more user-friendly than cammed sails
when over-powered bc they go flat when luffed. Also, I think
mine are easier/quicker to waterstart than the cammed freeride
sails they replace.

I'm not a fast sailor so I can't comment on speed; but I do think
they have plenty of low-end power.
--
PeteCresswell

[Michael]

A few additional thoughts:

Everyone "loves a locked in feel". The tradeoff for getting it (via
cams or more battens) is weight, cost, ease of rigging etc. The good
news is that the difference between a sail designed for that feel vs a
sail designed for better handling, earlier planing etc (ie wave sails
and handling-oriented freeride sails) is much less than it used to be.

Don't worry about closing the gap. Your top-end speed will be more
directly affected by how well you rig the sail (more downhaul than you
think, for starters) and your technique.

I myself sail wave sails up to and including my six meter sail (a 6.2)
and then switch to handling-oriented freeride for my seven meter sail
(currently a Naish Amp, but I may replace with an Ezzy next year as I
like all the scrim they're using.)

On Oct 16, 11:06 am, marek <mzawa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 Paź, 14:52, Dan Weiss <dwus...@comcast.net> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > It will help to tell us what sails your are considering along with the
> > board on which you intend to use the sail.
>
> Thanks.
> The question was somewhat theoretical, but one example would be Ezzy
> Wave Panther (former Wave SE) and Ezzy Free(ride)3:
>

> http://www.ezzy.com/sails/panther09.phphttp://www.ezzy.com/sails/freeride09.php

[sm...@seattletimes.com]

Judging from what you're saying, I'd go with the wave sail. You'd
probably do fine with either, but the fact that you don't expect to
sail these conditions very often tells me that above all easy handling
is going to be most important to you. Wave sails are plenty stable,
and fast enough to have fun and they are generally easier to jibe and
waterstart.