Sore forearms in winter
Don Heffernan
never found a good solution - hence my winter sailing is somewhat restricted.
I generally sail alone at my weekend house and have had a few scary incidents
with shot forearms. As a result I've cut back my winter sailing. If anyone
has some workable solutions, or even some speculations, do tell.
Don Heffernan (H) don...@access.digex.net
Washington, DC (W) donald.h...@gsa.gov
(WWW) http://www.access.digex.net/~donheff/donheffernan.html
Scott Smith
> A number of people have written about sore forearms/wrists from gloves. I've
> never found a good solution - hence my winter sailing is somewhat restricted.
> I generally sail alone at my weekend house and have had a few scary incidents
> with shot forearms. As a result I've cut back my winter sailing. If anyone
> has some workable solutions, or even some speculations, do tell.
>
I posted about this a couple weeks ago but got no comments so heres one
more time...
My theory about the problem with mittens and forearm fatigue is that
your wrists aren't getting enough blood through them. Two things mess
up your wrists: One, your drysuit wrenching down on them. Two, that
neat little velcro strap the mittens come with that is oh so tempting
to wrench down on to keep the water out. One other thing that would
mess you up more is if the gloves also impeded circulation if e.g.
fingers too tight or not pre-curved properly etc. Plus the extra
diameter of your grip from the padding hurts a bit. But I really
think the first two are the biggest problems.
I sailed last weekend in the big 'noreaster on a 3.7, getting nailed
by huge gusts and large closely spaced chop. Needless to say I had to
use lots of hand-effort to sail, its not like I could set up the sail
and cruise. I was out for several hours and didn't have any problems
with forearm fatigue, however. I had the straps on my mittens loose
(no binding at all; I started with them very loose, and carefully took
out the obvious slack when I got on the water). I was using "severe
gear" pre-curved closed-palm mittens. I don't know much about
difference between brands, but I have heard a lot of people complaning
about this brand so its not the magic cure. One other thing I did was
to push my drysuit up my arms more than usual, to lessen the
death-grip by the wrists.
I have tried sailing with the straps tight and the drysuit further
down the arms, and this does my forearms in in no time. So, I really
don't see any other factor that lets me sail so easily besides the
relative lack of binding. Give this idea a try, I'm interested in the
results.
Scott
(really sc...@cs.jhu.edu, using this account since our news reader is flakey)
Don Heffernan
>My theory about the problem with mittens and forearm fatigue is that
>your wrists aren't getting enough blood through them. ....
One other thing I
did was>to push my drysuit up my arms more than usual, to lessen the
>death-grip by the wrists.
Yeah, I've always assumed the problem is caused by circulation being cutoff.
I'm getting it from both the gloves and the suit. Come to think of it, the
one time I didn't have a problem with my forearms was when I sailed with a
beater (loose) wet suit and cotton garden gloves with rather loose dishwashing
gloves over them. But that outfit had other shortcomings.
I've never tried pushing the sleeves up on my steamer. Its so tight on my
wrists I just assumed anything higher would be worse - I'll push it up and
see. By the way, I have a large suit and skinny wrists - it must be hell for
the popeyes out there.
Glenn Woodell
>
>A number of people have written about sore forearms/wrists from gloves. I've
>never found a good solution - hence my winter sailing is somewhat restricted.
> I generally sail alone at my weekend house and have had a few scary incidents
>with shot forearms. As a result I've cut back my winter sailing. If anyone
>has some workable solutions, or even some speculations, do tell.
>
I have some ideas based on a recent session in which I paid
particular attention to my forearms while sailing. If the circulation
was being cut off or restricted, the hands would become numb
and/or tired, and not the forearms. My theory is that with bare hands
you have intimate contact with the boom and a sure grip, whereas
with gloves you have to grip a little harder to get the same traction.
The last time I sailed w/ gloves I used palmless neoprene with
dishwashing gloves underneath. Temperature-wise it was a great
combination but after about 60 seconds the forearms started getting
tired. I observed my hands while sailing and noted that I was
constantly regripping and twisting the boom like working the throttle
on a motorcycle. The gloves stuck to the boom very well but my
hands were slipping inside the gloves just enough to require the
constant regripping. Changing to an underhand grip helped a little
but the lethargy of the forearms was still almost overwhelming. As I
made it to the other side of the river I landed and removed my
gloves. Note that the wetsuit was much tighter on my wrists than my
gloves. Upon removing the dishwashing gloves I noticed that my
fingers had just about torn up the flock on the inside of them. I had
"lint" all over my palm and fingers. This was evidence to me that I
was really digging with my fingers. I sailed back bare handed and
my arms recovered completely. If you place one hand over the
muscles in question and make a tight fist with the fingers of the first
hand you will discover that these are the gripping muscles. It then
makes sense that it is the grip that is the problem and not the
circulation. I guess one could try covering the boom with some
slippery substance and try to sail barehanded with poor a grip. I
would bet that the forearms would get tired it that case also.
So what's the solution? Some sort of thin glove that sticks to the
hand without any slipping or rolling at all? Or how about an
insulating spray coating for the hands? All are welcome to blow
away my theory.
Glenn Woodell
TWMARRION
incidents
> with shot forearms. As a result I've cut back my winter sailing. If
anyone
> has some workable solutions, or even some speculations, do tell.
Pure speculation.. Earlier this fall sailing with a 4x3 steamer I had some
interesting times with shot forearms. I remember one run where I got far
enough outside and started to think about jibing, looked around, pulled my
back foot out, and discovered I did not have the strength to unhook. Wow!
what do we do now sports fans? Needless to say, I crashed...
But now that it is colder my dry suit is a Ronnie that has a loose fitting
top
and the neoprene is not tight around my arms. I haven't experienced the
problem with lower arm fatigue with this suit. But I haven't been sailing
that
much yet either so I am not very sure if the suit is the only reason.
We are planning on sailing this week end in Hatteras, so I will see how it
goes again.
Tom
Don Heffernan
> My theory is that with bare hands
>you have intimate contact with the boom and a sure grip, whereas
>with gloves you have to grip a little harder to get the same traction.
> If you place one hand over the
>muscles in question and make a tight fist with the fingers of the first
>hand you will discover that these are the gripping muscles. It then
>makes sense that it is the grip that is the problem and not the
>circulation. I guess one could try covering the boom with some
>slippery substance and try to sail barehanded with poor a grip. I
>would bet that the forearms would get tired it that case also.
>So what's the solution? Some sort of thin glove that sticks to the
>hand without any slipping or rolling at all? Or how about an
>insulating spray coating for the hands? All are welcome to blow
>away my theory.
Interesting. I think Glen and others may be on the right track - its grip not
circulation that causes the problem. The answer is obvious - we've got to
start working out more. Now, who knows whats the best endurance excercise for
forearms? Balls? Those spring gripper things?
Glenn Woodell
>
>
>In a previous posting, Don Heffernan (don...@access.digex.net) writes:
>>
>> Interesting. I think Glen and others may be on the right track - its grip not
>> circulation that causes the problem. The answer is obvious - we've got to
>> start working out more. Now, who knows whats the best endurance excercise for
>> forearms? Balls? Those spring gripper things?
>
>forearms, you will stengthen all muscles, which should help out as well. A
>potential side benefit is to toughen up the skin on your hands (assuming
>that you don't use gloves) which will prevent blisters...
>
>Just my opinion,
> Steve.
>
If you could lift with your fingers maybe. It's the muscles that work the fingers
and hand as opposed to those that work the arms.
Glenn
Steven Slaby
> circulation that causes the problem. The answer is obvious - we've got to
> start working out more. Now, who knows whats the best endurance excercise for
> forearms? Balls? Those spring gripper things?
How about weightlifting on a regular basis ? Besides strengthening your
forearms, you will stengthen all muscles, which should help out as well. A
potential side benefit is to toughen up the skin on your hands (assuming
that you don't use gloves) which will prevent blisters...
Just my opinion,
Steve.
--
"...Call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye... " | 67 Firebird Convert.
The Eagles | 82 Seca 650 Turbo
| 76 XL250, 77 XL175
Steve Slaby, Ottawa, Canada DOD #1312 | 90 Chevy Astro
Edward W. Scott
: If you could lift with your fingers maybe. It's the muscles that work the fingers
: and hand as opposed to those that work the arms.
I was having severe pain during the winter months a couple of years ago.
The physical therapist I saw recommended lifting a weight using a broom
handle with a rope attached to the weight. You roll the broom handle to
wrap the rope around it and lift the weight off the floor. Also,
traditional elbow and wrist curls seemed to strenghthen the effected muscles.
--
-shrEd
Ed Scott
sh...@netcom.com
X RECAR1
Fill 2 or 3 (2) liter bottles with water... get a broom handle and cut
it to a section about 12" long and drill a hole through the rod at the mid
point. Then get a 3' rope and tie one end to the rod via the hole in the
rod and the other end to the neck of the bottles. While standing with
the rod in both hands roll the rope up on the rod by inching each hand
along. The weight of the water filled botlles is a good workout.
Wrist pain is due to the decresed grip from wearing gloves, you have to
grip harder, thus you wear out.....
Don Heffernan
>Interesting. I think Glen and others may be on the right track - its grip not
>circulation that causes the problem. The answer is obvious - we've got to
>start working out more. Now, who knows whats the best endurance excercise for
>forearms? Balls? Those spring gripper things?
Here's a mail message from "xrecarl@aol that I think was intended to be a
followup to the thread:
Don Heffernan (H) don...@access.digex.net
BILL174
OR ANY GRIP SUBSTANCE USED IN RAQUET SPORTS OR BASEBALL. REMEMBER
BOOMGRIPS ARE SAME MATERIALS AS RAQUET GRIPS. PERFORATED BOOM GRIP AS MADE
BY GULF TECH IS GREAT. PUT STUFF ON HANDS FIRST THEY WILL STICK TO GLOVE.
YOU PROBABLY WILL NOT NEED TO REAPPLY EACH TIME. NEXT PUT ON OUTSIDE OF
GLOVE. VOILA! YOU WILL HAVE GRIP AND RADICALLY LESS FATIGUE. GLOVES ARE
ALOST LIKE BARE HANDS AND YOU ARE WARM!
BILL KLINE/AHD/HOT SAILS HOOD RIVER OR
Gareth Williams
material that is extremely grippy in the wet.
Gareth Williams
Gar...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Screamer, Tushingham 5.0 -> 6.5, North Masts & Boom
Ballygowan, Northern Ireland
Greg Kott
don...@access.digex.net (Don Heffernan) wrote:
> In article <3du7bg$9...@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> g.a.w...@larc.nasa.gov (Glenn Woodell) writes:
>
> > My theory is that with bare hands
> >you have intimate contact with the boom and a sure grip, whereas
> >with gloves you have to grip a little harder to get the same traction.
>
> > If you place one hand over the
> >muscles in question and make a tight fist with the fingers of the first
> >hand you will discover that these are the gripping muscles. It then
> >makes sense that it is the grip that is the problem and not the
> >circulation. I guess one could try covering the boom with some
> >slippery substance and try to sail barehanded with poor a grip. I
> >would bet that the forearms would get tired it that case also.
>
> >So what's the solution? Some sort of thin glove that sticks to the
> >hand without any slipping or rolling at all? Or how about an
> >insulating spray coating for the hands? All are welcome to blow
> >away my theory.
>
> Interesting. I think Glen and others may be on the right track - its grip not
> circulation that causes the problem. The answer is obvious - we've got to
> start working out more. Now, who knows whats the best endurance excercise for
> forearms? Balls? Those spring gripper things?
>
>
I believe grip (between hand/glove and glove/boom) is the main factor
contributing to the decrease in your ability to hold the boom. But, to a
smaller degree, the energy required to compress both the boom padding and
the glove layer (this is the case with a full gloove) to grip the boom also
decreased your ability.
With this in mind I'm wondering if anyone notices any difference between
booms with thick soft padding compared to thin hard padding. And to carry
this one step further, instead of cutting away the glove palms, remove the
boom padding. Maybe someone wants to replace the padding on an old boom
anyway. Then put a non-skid surface on the bare boom similar to the deck
surface and try a pair of gloves which will not shred.
I'm not sure if this will make a difference or not but just a thought.
--
Greg Kott
Design Optimization Lab
RPI
U52...@uicvm.uic.edu
Another approach might be to examine the grips used by gymnasts to hold onto
the rings and high bar. They use a dowel rod. Maybe something like this could
be added to the gloves. Also, with dishwashing gloves my problem is that they
grip well, but my hands tend to slide back within the glove, thus I use energy
trying to stay in the glove.
AERODESIGN
1. Use the harness as much as possible. Weight on the harness is weight
off your arms. Arms/hands are for control, not power. Avoid muscling the
boom around, especially in winter. Your hands will stay warmer, and your
forearms will remain rested.
2. Use a combination of thin dishwashing gloves under open-palm neoprene
mittens. The thin gloves do not impair your grip, and the mittens keep
your finger tips warm. Make sure the mittens and the gloves fit loosely
and do not constrict circulation.
This year to date, I have sailed two or three times a week on the
Chesapeake. The above suggestions keep my hands warm down to less than 40
F. When the spray starts to freeze to my dry-suit, I quit.
One final observation: The quality of the wind this time of year also
leads to more forearm soreness. In fall and winter we get many days with
winds that go from 0 to 25 in gusts, and then back to 0. This kind of air
is much more difficult and demanding to sail than a steady 30. Forearms
will be quickly shot unless their owner keeps a good eye out to weather
and anticipates what is coming next.
Mark Heinze
think that's the name - haven't used them since I moved south a few
years ago.) They had a wonderful grip on the boom, but my hands
slid around inside the gloves, making me tire quickly.
However, they were pretty warm and I could sail with the air temp below
freezing and the water temp around 45-50 degrees F.
So, I think you need good grip for both inside the glove and on the boom,
plus warmth. Tough to find that...
-mark
--
Encore Computer Corporation
6901 W Sunrise Boulevard
Mark Heinze Fort Lauderdale, Fl 33313
email: mhe...@encore.com Telephone: (305) 797-2325
b.spe...@irl.cri.nz
etc. but gave them away., The most significant factor I have found
when sailing in cold conditions is that hand/arm problems seem to
occur quite quickly when I first start, if I then take a break and get
the circulation going in my hands then I'm ok after that, it's almost
as though my hands/arms go into shock initially and take a while
to adapt.
Bruce