WANTED: Transitional Slalom ~160 L
Richard A. Peterson
still taken back by all the negative press being given the
"transitional board". I just purchased a Fanatic Bat, and
couldn't be happier with it. My wife and I both sail which
makes two boards a neccesity. We started on an Obrien
Sensation, moved to the Excellerator last year which I really
enjoyed despite it's excesive weight, and now have the Bat plus
an Astro Rock. My wife is not ready for a short board yet and
still wants the stability of the "transition board". We're
stuck in central Virginia so most of our weekend sailing is
limited to lakes. I used the Bat all last weekend and thought
it perfect for the lake. When the wind stopped, I didn't have
to worry about performing a balancing act on a squirrly short
board, and when it did pick up, was able to get up on a plane
and dream of our upcoming trip to the outer banks. The bottom
line is that at least for us, we're happy. I don't want to
haul around a 12' racing board, and have found that I can have
a good time on the transition board. Some of my best memories
of last year's trip to Hatteras were of riding a borrowed F2
315. Finally, what really baffles me is when looking back at
past WS issues and tests on the Bic Rumba and Obrien Elite
(transition boards), there was none of this outright putting
down of this type of board. Neither of us aspire to be flat
out shredders. I am hoping by the end of the summer to get my
wife on the Astro Rock, or something a hair bigger, but non the
less, also feel that the Bat will serve the immediate need to
get her comfortable with foot straps, harness, etc, and
ultimately give us something to use on the lakes until we croak.
--
Rick Peterson
Health Sciences Library, University of Virginia
Charlottesville, VA 22908
(804) 924-0059 ra...@virginia.edu
Richard A. Peterson
Didn't catch it until began scrolling away. Please spare me
flamers.
HEATHER ELIZABETH STEWART
In article <Cn4E9...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
ra...@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Richard A. Peterson) writes:
|>Ever since reading the 3/93 issue of Windsurfing Magazine, I am
|>still taken back by all the negative press being given the
|>"transitional board". I just purchased a Fanatic Bat, and
|>couldn't be happier with it.
I AGREE! I bought my Fanatic Lite Viper two years ago & have enjoyed it
thoroughly. I think mine is still larger than the BAT, but the idea is
still there.
In a 14mph wind and a 5.0 sail, I can plane and even zip around with
good pointing ability, yet when the wind stalls I can still get home.
Additionally, it is a board that I think I can enjoy for many years to come.
Last year I got proficient at beach starts and with the harness, this
season will be waterstarts (I hope). Like most people I don't live in
the SF Bay area and I'm stricly a recreational w'surfer.
So for people like us I think trans boards are very nice. They are
sound boards that are easy to manuver yet can cruise along at a nice
pace. They also include a daggerboard which make for a nice "safety
blanket."
Anyway, I believe that things kept simple make it more enjoyable overall.
You guys tend to "blow me away" with this techno stuff. Does a w'surfer
have to know what his/her board is made out of in order to enjoy the sport?!
What do you believe?
Heather E. Stewart: hest...@eos.ncsu.edu
Grad. Student: NCSU
Bio-Ag Engineering
Raleigh, N.C.
AKeister
ELIZABETH STEWART) writes:
I agree with you. Transition boards are important. I doubt many people have
the athletic ability to go from a beginner board to a light air slalom board.
Transition boards are great for those of us who only sail a few times a month.
- Alan
Lee T. Lau
>You guys tend to "blow me away" with this techno stuff. Does a w'surfer
>have to know what his/her board is made out of in order to enjoy the sport?!
>What do you believe?
>Heather E. Stewart: hest...@eos.ncsu.edu
>Grad. Student: NCSU
>Bio-Ag Engineering
>Raleigh, N.C.
I couldn't agree more. I know that this thread has been beaten to death
before but it really is intimidating to buy gear.
I had a lot of guidance when I was buying my first gear and even then the
choice and tech jargon was bewildering. I feel more comfortable w/ jargon
and tech complexity now but I've often wondered how the emphasis on state-
of-the-art confounds and drives off prospective beginners. My impressions
is that a beginner, less-advanced internediate probably wouldn't know or
care that their gear can't handle winds of >30 .
----------------
Lee T. Lau (l...@acs.ucalgary.ca)
Canadian Institute of Resources Law (403) 220-3200
KJC1000
I agree with you. I have a F2 Comet Slalom (315) and it was great to learn on
and I still use it with on 6.5-7.5 days. I must say I never use the
centerboard and even put the centerboard cover on, but my wife (a
beginner/intermediate) still likes the centerboard. The centerboard DOES give
the board stability when she is standing on it trying to uphaul. But it's a
tough call. If I weighed less than 175, I think I would go with what Ken is
recommending and make the jump to a shorter board. But then in a few years are
you stuck with a board that a beginner doesn't want because it's too small nor
a shortboarder because it's too large?
kwinner on BIX
Heather and Alan:
You defend transitions boards, and maybe you are right to do
so, but people at the magazine and a number of instructors
we know find that they actually hold their users back.
Time after time we see people on something like a Fanatic
Ram trying gamely to get onto a plane, while someone else of
equal ability is easily planing on something like a Seatrend
9'9 or Pro-Tech 9'10 (both 160-liter boards). Maybe this is
acceptable, but we find the transitions boards aren't
much better upwind in 5 knots than the huge slalom boards.
That tiny centerboard doesn't really offer all that much
safety.
That said, I don't think either the super giant slalom boards
or the transition boards do quite what we need them to do.
K Winner
Chad Price x7936
: I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
:boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
:them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
:"transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
:light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
:difficult to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter
:slalom. Do people actually do it?
Yes, people actually do it. I started in 1989 on a Mistral Competition 220 l
"fun board", sailed it for 1.5 seasons and switched directly to a BIC Astro
Rock. No regrets! My wife is now making exactly the same transition from the
220 litre board to the 124 litre Astro Rock. She's not having too much trouble
either. Neither one of is is what one could call professional-standard athletes
- I used to bicycle race (a little, and only one season), and we both used to
do a lot of mountaineering and rock climbing (its kind of hard to continue that
in Nebraska!)
Sure, it feels very unstable at first, and I initially wondered how it is
possible that people sail such small boards, but after 1/2 dozen or so sessions
I started to feel comfortable, and haven't looked back since. I definitely
think that it is the right way to do it.
:I progressed from a beginner board to a 160 l. transition to a 130
:l. slalom. I wish I has spent more time with the transition board. I didn't
:learn to waterstart or jibe well with it.
I learned waterstarts on the Mistral (220 litre) and they were easier on the
Astro Rock. Gybing is just something that takes lots of practice. I can
generally make gybes, but planing out of the gybe is a different story for me.
:Now I have to be very careful about
:the conditions I sail in. If there is too much wind and chop, I can't uphaul
:the 130 l. board. If there is too little wind, it is no fun. I believe I
:would have progressed faster if I had learned to waterstart and jibe better
:with my trans. board. Jibing is no fun when I fall 10 times for each success.
:One can learn from mistakes but successes are necessary also.
--
Chad Price
University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, NE (402) 559-7936
cpr...@netserv.unmc.edu
ch...@windsurf.unmc.edu
Lee T. Lau
>I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
>boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
>them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
>"transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
>light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
>difficult
>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
>people actually do it?
I learned on a 190 l Hi_fly Super-Funboard, which I still keep for light-air
cruising. I then used a friends E-Rock 102l and learned how to waterstart
and, sort of, jibe with. I am only 160lbs and had the advantage of a high-
wind location (Nitinat Lake) in Vancouver Island). I was also incredibly
stubborn which probably helps when learning how to waterstart.
It's possible to make the jump but I would guess that you need consistent
high-winds, the help of friends and the right mindset.
Donald B. Barker
In article <lau...@acs.ucalgary.ca>, l...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Lee T. Lau) writes:
>In article <2n2tg5$o...@search01.news.aol.com> akei...@aol.com (AKeister) writes:
>
>>I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
>>boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
>>them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
>>"transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
>>light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
>>difficult
>>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
>>people actually do it?
>
>I learned on a 190 l Hi_fly Super-Funboard, which I still keep for light-air
>cruising. I then used a friends E-Rock 102l and learned how to waterstart
>and, sort of, jibe with. I am only 160lbs and had the advantage of a high-
>wind location (Nitinat Lake) in Vancouver Island). I was also incredibly
>stubborn which probably helps when learning how to waterstart.
My first board was a Mistral Escape (190 l). After learning harness and
footstraps I figured I needed a "transition" board. I picked up a used
Mistral New Malibu (160 l). It was a mistake. I ended up getting a Mistal
Explosion (130 l) three months later and dumping the New Malibu. In marginal
planing and even relative heavy air (for a beginner) the New Malibu was no
better, even worse, than the Escape. (In light air the New Malibu really
sucked.) My feet have yet to touch the deck of the Escape since I bought
the Explosion.
I had been beach starting the Escape and just starting to get a water start
when I bought the New Malibu. I would have saved money and progressed
faster if I would have gone to directly to the Explosion at that point.
Who can go back to the slogging plane of a big board after the exhilerating
ride of a true slalom board.
IMHO transition boards are marketing ploy by the manufacturers to excite
the buyer into thinking that he can buy only one board to cover the
entire wind range. Marketers also imply that this single board will not be
outgrown as you progress along the learning curve. I believe that your
"transition learngin" can be accomplished on a big board, then go directly
to a slalom board. Relatively high volume slalom boards can be easily
uphauled by a new short board sailor in light to moderate seas.
Caution, my opinions probably should be tempered with the conficting facts
that I'm a 47 year old duffer, without the reflexes of my youth, and only
weigh 150 lbs.
Pierre St. Hilaire
>and, sort of, jibe with. I am only 160lbs and had the advantage of a high-
>wind location (Nitinat Lake) in Vancouver Island). I was also incredibly
>stubborn which probably helps when learning how to waterstart.
>
Could you elaborate on that? I've heard many mentions of
Nitinat previously. What is the usual sail size, best season,
frequency of high winds, etc...? Thanks
Pierre St Hilaire
MIT Media Laboratory
Patrice Boily
: Ken,
: I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
: boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
: them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
: "transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
: light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
: difficult
: to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
: people actually do it?
After sailing 3 years on a begginer 225 litres baords, i jump right down
to a 105 litres slalom board and i don't regret it. To be honest however,
I have never sailed a transition board, but my feeling is that if you want
to improved your skills, in any sport, you need to be challenged, and you
shouldn't be scared to go to a small board. What i do regret about my
"carreer' as a windsurfer, is that i stuck to shortboards only for too
long, spending endless days waiting and chasing after the wind. Then ,
last year, I invested in a One Design and started racing. Suddenly my
skills as a windsurfer started to improve again, and I spend more time on
the water than ever before. The ideal board quiver, IMHO, for continetal
north american sailors, is a short board (100-130 l) and a race board.
That way you cover much, if not all of the conditions you will encounter
trhoughout the season, and in a sense, a transitional board is unnecessary
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice Boily
Don Ledford
In Seattle we have light winds except for gusty storms. I think I've
finally collected the perfect set of boards for my weight (200lbs) and the
local conditions:
Fanatic Mega Cat - ~240l course board
F2 Vega - ~134l giant slalom
F2 Axxis 270 - ~103l short board
I just added the F2 boards this winter. The Mega Cat is great for light winds
and sails comfortably in the white caps, but a shorter board is more fun when
the wind picks up. I found myself swimming a lot with the Axxis even on windy
days due to lulls. This may be largely a reflection of my lack of short board
skills. I've had the Vega out once. It is easy to jibe, uphaul, and I can
limp to the beach when the wind dies. I plan to use the Axxis for the few
high wind storms we get and trips to the Gorge this summer.
A transition board wouldn't improve my collection. Based on my personal
experience a beginner is best off to start with a full size board and then
add a giant slalom. A light weight sailor or windy local conditions might
lead to a different conclusion.
Matthew G Wheeler
I live in Central Indiana. I've probably sailed about 70 days over the last
3.5 years, maybe 35 of those days where the wind was over 15. I usually sail
on small lakes and wait for >15 days in the spring and fall. I spent a week
in Hatteras last year and just returned from a week in Corpus Christy.
I weigh 225#, and am 6'4". The first 5 times I sailed, I rented a big heavy
board. For the last 2 years, I've used a BIC Samba (10'6", 170l) with the
stock 11.5" slotted fin, and a BIC (UP) 6.4 RAF sail. Over the winter I
purchased a 13.5" pointer, a 15.5" blade and a used NP 7.5m^2 race sail.
I've used the new sail and fin once.
As I said I just got back from Corpus where I rented a Fanatic Rabbit (9'9",130l)
with a big weed fin and 7.5,6.5,5.5 Sailworks race sails. I used the 7.5
sail all week in 15-25 mph wind. I could sail the small board pretty well the
first time I got on it. I learned to sail fast, in the straps and water start
proficiently within the week. I could do neither with my Samba very well before
last week.
From my point of view:
- The stock fin on the samba is to small to sail the board without the
center board. By the time you're going fast enough for the fin to be effective,
the big board is uncontrollable. In other words, if you're thinking of using it
as a giant slalom, think again. The big fins may solve this problem.
- I think that I could have learned everything I learned with the samba
on a big race board. If I could do it again I'd get a good (light) race board,
and then try to switch right to the short board. I'll be selling the Samba and
trying to get both a Race board and a Short board within the next few months.
- Once you make a short board work, your transitional will look and
feel like crap, mine does.
- Renting a short board in a place where you can sail several days
in a row, where there is steady wind and shallow water is an effective low
risk way to get onto a short board.
Now that I've felt the rush of flying across the water fully powered under
control, I have some questions for the experts:
- I had a hard time staying up wind on the short board. I'm not sure
if this was my sailing technique or the weed fin. Any suggestions?
- I'm also looking for recommendations for a short board. I think I'll
have to use a 7'5" to get fully powered in the wind I usually see in Indiana.
Using a 7'5" Sailworks I sunk the 130l Fanatic when standing still. It did float
enough to stay at the surface when I was slogging in light wind. Fanatic,
Mistral, and Copello(sp?) all have short boards from 120-130l, of the no nose
variety. Would this help me as a big guy in light wind. What about a really big
daggerboardless board like a 130-160l slalom board. How much wind is too much
for these boards? What should I look for in hull design, bottom and rail shape,
weight vs. durability? Please try to scale your advice up or down(?) appropriatly
for my body size.
Thanks all
Matt Wheeler
Craig Goudie
>Heather and Alan:
>K Winner
I know a couple who are on transition boards, and have been there
for 5 years. I think transition boards give a great sense of security.
So great that many people who buy them simply don't progress any farther
in the sport, or at a substantially retarded rate. This couple taught me how
to sail. Now, unfortunatley, we can't sail together because just when
it's really getting fun for me, they don't enjoy it. Naturally this bums
me a bit and I'd like to blame the transition boards, but I really think
it's more of a mind set.
People who are adrenaline junkies should drop from a long board to a
large slalom board (like an Astro Rock), heavy weight adrenaline
junkies should drop to super G slalom boards, like the above mentioned 9'9"s.
You can recognize these people from the first time you teach them on a long
board. They will come in exhausted, with huge eyes and large smiles, and
they'll be talking about a million miles an hour about how fun it was to
be beaten up so severly.
People who are not adrenaline junkies should probably drop to a
transition board just because of their mind set. They like being
comfortable, they like slow change, and they basically just want to
have a pleasent peacefull experience. You give them a dagger board,
usefull or not, and they feel more comfortable, and that helps them
to have the type of experience they want. You can generally tell
these people the first time you teach them also. First of all,
they want a comfortable day (warm and sunny) to try it. They come in
after a few attempts at up hauling and have a sandwich and some conversation.
They talk about how nice the day is, and how good the company is, then they
go back out for a few more uphauls and maybe a 20 ft ride, which they'll
describe as "really neat" when they come back in. They may come back
and sail again next week, or they may go for a hike instead. The point
is they are also enjoying themselves, just in a different way.
Not every one wants to progress as rapidly as they possibly can.
Some people are more comfortable with being "held back" by their
equipment. This actually enhances their experience rather than
detracting from it. They may never experience the thrill of
being air born on a short board at 25 MPH (the kind of thing junkies
live for), but for them it wouldn't be a good experience any way.
Just another excursion into the realm of windsurfing psychobabble,
Craig,
P.S. The last time some one asked me the most effective way to use
their center board, I told them to leave it on the beach, or put it in
the nearest dumpster.
8'10" Bailey jump, 9'9" Sailboards Maui
Wt 155#, Ht 6'3", Usually sail on high desert lakes near SLC in Ut
Go short or go home
Mark Heinze
>In article <lau...@acs.ucalgary.ca>, l...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Lee T. Lau) writes:
>>In article <2n2tg5$o...@search01.news.aol.com> akei...@aol.com (AKeister) writes:
>>
>>>I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
>>>boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
>>>them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
>>>"transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
>>>light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
>>>difficult
>>>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
>>>people actually do it?
>>
>My first board was a Mistral Escape (190 l). After learning harness and
>footstraps I figured I needed a "transition" board. I picked up a used
>Mistral New Malibu (160 l). It was a mistake. I ended up getting a Mistal
>Explosion (130 l) three months later and dumping the New Malibu. In marginal
[snip]
I had a little different experience. I started with a Mistral Competition
and sailed for 2-3 years on that board. Most of the sailing was on a
lake with light winds. Then that board was stolen and replaced with a
Mistral New Malibu (around 165l, I think). My main logic was that I
wanted something closer to a short board, but also wanted something I could
always sail in the light winds on a lake. My sailing skills rapidly
improved on that board as I learned more about planing, footstraps, body
weight placement, jibing (I could even carve a jibe on the board...),
waterstarting, etc. In fact, I could pretty much keep up with sailors on
short boards (most of 'em were pretty slow/inexperienced, but it made me
feel fast :-) ), and I could also move around pretty well in sub-planing
conditions.
Now I have a Mistral Screamer. The transition to the short board was
quick and easy after all my experience on the New Malibu. The second
time I went out I was able to jibe, although it didn't look so hot. (The
first time was in 6-8 foot swells & gusts over 30 knots - stupid me). I
was comfortable in most conditions and by the third day was experimenting
with jumps (I don't count the unintentional jumps on the first day as
"experimenting" :-) ).
I probably could have gone to the short board much sooner, but money
happened to be an issue at the time. Even now, I like to go out on the
New Malibu on light days - it sails much better than the Screamer in
sub-planing conditions :-).
So, the transitional board was just that for me. I was able to get a
good foundation before jumping to the short board. Granted I probably
could have moved to the short board much sooner, but the New Malibu gave
me the confidence I needed to get the type of short board I wanted.
-mark
--
Encore Computer Corporation
6901 W Sunrise Boulevard
Mark Heinze Fort Lauderdale, Fl 33313
email: mhe...@encore.com Telephone: (305) 797-2325
christopher.r.gayle
Those sailors who are agressive, athletic, and not timid are probably
just fine going from a big board to a little shortboard. We are reading
a lot notes from these people. But not everybody is this way. And some
of those people are quite small, which may be why the timidity.
For these folks, the transition board is OK. Maybe a big race board
might be more efficient in light wind, even for a 110# person, but
this person can't carry a big race board. The trans board is plenty
floaty enough for that person to uphaul, but it still goes pretty fast
when there is wind. Maybe not as fast as a shortboard, but this rider
is a bit afraid of too much speed, so that's OK. The trans board DOES
footsteer, so (s)he can learn some of the shortboard techniques without
having to fear being lost without the daggerboard.
As for me (190#, not so timid as this, but not a testosterone crazed
maniac either) I used a trans board for 1 year between the big board
and the little board. It served its purpose -- I performed my first
waterstarts and first raked-back, in-the-footstraps runs that summer.
Now I sail little boards when there is enough wind, and think about doing
it when there isn't...
- Topher Gayle mv...@mvubr.att.com
Richard A. Peterson
she's pretty cautious and does not seek O.D.ing on adrenaline.
She actually started sailing before me around 1990 and the scenario you
describe reminds me of the lazy early days we spent putting
around and shooting the bull while taking turns on our one
board. We were just happy to be able to go out, turn around,
and make it back to land. Along these same lines, one of her
coworkers and husbund are recreational windsurfers and are
going to the Florida Keys next week, and have absolutely no
plans to rent some gear and get in the water! Argh! I guess
its all relative to what makes you happy and how far you'd
like to progress. As for me, after numerous failures, I hated
the sport. But once I finally experienced some success, finally
experienced a plane, got hooked in and in some straps, its been
all over. I've become obsessed with sport, still have a long
way to go, but was able to convince her that I needed to get on
the fast track, and therefore we've got a new Astro Rock ready
for our trip to Hatteras next week.
This discussion got stirred up ~ 1 week ago when I offered my
opinion on the value of a transition board in response to
advice to go immediately to a large slalom board. I do now
understand the merits of skipping the transition board
especially if you frequently sail where there's decent wind
nearby. I however have no reqrets for having a transition board
as it will continue to serve us at least on the central
Virginia lakes and on the low wind days at the outer banks. We
don't need to be flat out screaming all the time to have fun.
I do hope to get my wife on to something shorter by the end of
the year (and get her hooked) and hope to get a chance to check
out your Sailboards Maui board in June if you still have it
when I'm out at SLC.
AKeister
>>>I have no doubt you are correct about poor the performance of transition
>>>boards. I know from experience that sailor's skills do not improve much on
>>>them. Mine didn't. However, my transition board took me past the
>>>"transition" point. Without that board, I never would have progressed to a
>>>light air slalom. What is the alternative? I believe it would be very
>>>difficult
>>>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom.
Do
>>>people actually do it?
Well, I will admit now that people actually do it!!! You have all got me
thinking
about why I didn't move from beginner board to short board. I am athletic,
140 lbs, and craving the adreneline rush. I think I figured it out. It was
a combination of ignorance and a very bad beginner board. I think it was
mostly the bad beginner board. I learned to balance, tack, and gybe on it.
However, it was so big and heavy, there was no way I ever could have made
it plane. A friend of mine bought it (cheaply) after I finished with it. He
called
it "the barge". The sail was one of those big floppy things with no battens.
I guess didn't learn enough on my beginner board to go directly to a short
board. The transition board was a big step at the time. The transition board
would
actually turn when I stood on one side or the other. The barge would not.
Now that I have said that, I still believe transition boards have their place
in
Windsurfing. Remember - this sport is not made up only of shredders and
jumpers. There are plenty of folks out there who only get out a few times
a month and still love it.
- Alan
Luigi Semenzato
ra...@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Richard A. Peterson) writes:
|> [...] I however have no reqrets for having a transition board
|> as it will continue to serve us at least on the central
|> Virginia lakes and on the low wind days at the outer banks. We
|> don't need to be flat out screaming all the time to have fun.
I do.
I am not proud of it, it's a fact. I wish I could better
appreciate the simple joys of life, but it's all or nothing
for me. ---Luigi
Monica Hutchins
>Another opinion about the transition boards, here:
>Those sailors who are agressive, athletic, and not timid are probably
>just fine going from a big board to a little shortboard.
I'm not usually considered agressive, definitely was not
considered athletic until recently, and am generally very cautious.
I've been very happy going from a 190l board to an 85l board, which
I did last year. I've thought about buying a 95-100l board
to add to my collection, but really haven't been able to justify
it yet. (125#)
> Maybe a big race board
>might be more efficient in light wind, even for a 110# person, but
>this person can't carry a big race board.
Race boards are light! I'd rather carry my friends course board
than my own 190l 35# board!
OK, so maybe I'm an andrenaline junky now, but really, you
don't have to be "agressive, athletic, and not timid" to make
the long board to short board move!
moni
(member of the ATBC (anti-transition board camp :-))
Susan Wrigley
custom 130l (both were borrowed) to, finally, my own 103l Electric Rock.
I find that for my size (125# also) the E Rock is almost a transition board
for me, so I am now looking at adding a smaller board. It's hard to get
advice on what I should be looking at, since all my friends who sail
are a lot bigger than me. Some of them suggest 7'11", some say that will
be way too small. So, I was wondering what your 85l board is
- how long etc. What sails do you tend to use with it, and where do you
usually sail? I'm hoping to try out some boards in Hatteras this spring.
So far I have only tried a Rap and a custom WRV (95l). I liked the WRV
way better than the Rap - the Rap bounced around too much. But neither
was really small enough.
(I am an adrenaline junky - but we don't get enough wind here, so
I have to go to Hatteras twice a year to get my fix. That's where
I would use a smaller board - I would probably only get a few chances in
Ottawa to use it).
- Sue
wri...@bnr.ca
Kirk Lindstrom
going from SHoreline (lake) to Coyote Pt (Difficult SF Bay sailing), I
got a Mistral Malibu. My buddy got a HighTech 9'8" of maybe 125L.
OK, my buddy weights maybe 130 lbs and I weighed 235 lbs (at that time).
I couldn't even float on his 9'8" while it was a cork for him. This was
1990 and I really started to make progress when I got ahold of a Velocity
Stealth of 160L and 9'9" (or was it 190L?). Anyway, for people over 225 lbs
(and maybe even 200 lbs), I think it would be hard to progress without a
shortboard. I took lessons in Baja on getting into the straps winter 90/91
and found that I could only sail the Shredder (9'9") if the wind was strong.
For learning, the instructor had me move up to the 10'6" NewMalibu and I
was able to progress in the light (under 20 knots) wind. One day, the wind
was maybe 6-8 knots and my lightweight buddy took out my rigged Shredder
and was planing back and forth to everyone's amazement (and disgust).
So, for lightweights, a giant slalom board is almost a long board compared
to heavyweights. This weight/volume ration is VERY important and I still
don't see it being addressed enough in articles and even Ken's posts. I
have noticed with great pleasure that Windsurfing is making an excellent
attempt to address it in their board reviews. For example, the "Roberts"
shape is difficult to sail, but is just what alot of us big guys need to
have fun in light wind. My 8'11" is built with a similar shape to get me
thru the windshadow at Coyote to the really good wind and to get upwind
against the flood. It jibes like a door, but I've heard the newer shapes
are getting better at this problem.
Probably the best thing I've seen lately is the Velocity advertised in
Sailways for $500. If you are over 200 lbs and just getting into
footstraps, then this could just be the board you need. It is MUCH too
corky for lighter folks. I sold mine last year and often wished I had not
since I can tack and jibe that board all day and stay (mostly) dry and I
still haven't made a tack with my 9'3" or smaller boards....
Kirk out
8'8" ASD epoxy RKT, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy CS, Malibu & 8'8" ChallengeFlex
Will trade Malibu for an Equipe or One Design
Wt 213#, Ht. 6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.
(kirk_li...@sj.hp.com)
Donald B. Barker
In article <CnHBC...@scr.siemens.com>, mo...@scr.siemens.com (Monica Hutchins) writes:
... deleted
>OK, so maybe I'm an andrenaline junky now, but really, you
>don't have to be "agressive, athletic, and not timid" to make
>the long board to short board move!
>
>moni
>(member of the ATBC (anti-transition board camp :-))
I'm also a ATBC member. I wasted precioul time and money with a
transition board.
IMHO, another major point that has not been stated clearly in this
thread is that most transition boards do not come with a large
enough fin to get the board planning in marginal conditions.
By the time the fin is really working, the wind and chop is too
high for this size board. The trouble is that many major board
makers, e.g. Bic with the Samba, do not make a strong
enough fin box for a nice big new blade fin.
It was all the difference in the world when I replaced the stock fin
in my old New Malibu with a 15" blade. I finally figured out how the
rest of the sailors stayed upwind on screaming beam reaches rather than
having to fall off onto a broad reach. I also learned I too could
plane in marginal conditions. Before this I thought it was just my
inexperience.
All this is moot, since I dumped the New Malibu within three months for
an Explosion and have two blade fins. I'm learning how important a fin
quiver is for maximum sailing efficiency.
Kirk Lindstrom has a point with weight vs volume. I'm only 150 lbs.
soaking wet, but no one told me that a 130 l. board would be a cork
for me. I probably should have gone down to a 110-120 l. board for
light wind slalom. Note that Monica at 125 lbs is with a 85 l. board
and thinking of a light wind board of around 95-100 l. The review
articles in magazines do not emphasize sailors weight enough. We are
not all 170 lbs!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Barker - Escape (190 l), Explosion (130 l), North Spectro (5.0,6.0,7.0)
sailing the crystal clear waters of the Potomac in your nations capital
dba...@eng.umd.edu
WudaLyf
Lindstrom) writes:
Kirk,
It is good to see someone discuss board usage for those of use who are
overweight? I weigh 220lbs. so I know from where you speak. I went to Aruba
and found out that I could sail the fastest on a Malibu. Yes I could sail
shorter boards but they would dog through the shadows and they were not as
fast. Weight makes a big difference. Mu short board is a Seatrend 9'10" and
150 liters. This board is great. I keep up with or passes the majority of
shortboarders, so why do I have to try a 100-135 liter board. Since this board
is 6 years old I guess I have been ahead of my time since Windsurfer magazine
had a panel discussion with designers about Super Giant Slalom Boards. They
should have asked me to join the panel. I knew most of what they presented,
six years ago. Bottom line is that we need to get back to testing using
different sized people to give accurate information.........George
jeremy pollack
ra...@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Richard A. Peterson) wrote:
> Very well stated Craig. My wife is very happy with our new Bat,
> she's pretty cautious and does not seek O.D.ing on adrenaline.
rick
especially as you are with a health sciences library, you may be interested
in one of my wife's recently related comments.
it seems that the word hysteria is a charged, sex-linked, word. literally
it means something like 'the crazyness in a woman.' indeed, hysterectomy
can be translated somewhat literally as, 'to take the crazyness out of a
woman.'
well, marcia (my wife) reflected on this, and concluded that there must be
(should be!) a suitable word to describe similar situation in men. she, a
linguist at heart, came up with...
from the root 'phrenia' (as in schizo) one gets 'of the mind.' then, just
attach the prefix 'testo.' there you have it, "testophrenia or
testophrenic." you commonly see its effect when someone cuts-off a male
car driver. i offer that this, *not* adrenaline, is at the root of men's
passion for windsurfing.
(imho: women don't seem to need to be so driven... they seem to just enjoy
windsurfing for the pleasure it gives them. maybe some will have
comments?)
jeremy
n.b. if asked, why is this posted to rec.windsurfing! why, to enlighten!
kwinner on BIX
Craig:
You defend transitions boards by saying that some people
don't want the high-end, adrenaline-pumping action that
some of us want. I agree that such people don't need
slalom boards, but I'm not so sure that means they should
be on transition boards. I'm more inclined to recommend
boards over 185 liters for people who prefer to windsurf
in light to moderate winds. Boards like the Mistral
Escape and O'Brien Elite come to mind.
Of course, the Mistral One Design is the best option
available for anyone that likes longboard sailing and
social activities. A bit spendy, though.
K Winner.
Richard A. Peterson
>
> n.b. if asked, why is this posted to rec.windsurfing! why, to enlighten!
And because its Friday afternoon and who can think about work during this
time of year! At least in central Virginia, its in the mid 60s
and breezy. What work....
kwinner on BIX
>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
>people actually do it?
Alan:
I don't recommend a jump from 220 to 130 liters. For the
windsurfer who wants good planing performance, but who has
minimal skills, I recommend a 160-liter slalom board.
It has very nearly all the advantages of a 160-liter
transition board, but none of the liabilities.
It's as easy to uphaul or tack, nearly as good in sub-planing
conditions, and way quicker to plane off.
k Winner
kwinner on BIX
Matt:
You ask whether it was the weed fin or your technique hurting
your ability to stay upwind. No question, it was the fin.
You have to have better everything else if you're stuck using
a weed fin.
K Winner
kwinner on BIX
Just a quick note to point out that transition boards are not
a conscious marketing ploy of the manufacturers (and
here I'm talking about boards 145 to 185 liters with
centerboards--don't think I've made that clear in the
past). Most manufacturers honestly believe the boards are
great.
K Winner
Patrice Boily
: Of course, the Mistral One Design is the best option
: available for anyone that likes longboard sailing and
: social activities. A bit spendy, though.
Yes, the INITIAL purchase price of the One-Design may be hard to swallow.
BUT, as you point out, it is a great investment for those who want to sail
in a lot of different, less than ideal, conditions with the bonus of the
social aspect of One-D. racing. As for the cost, if one gets addicted to
course racing like I did last year, One D. racing is by FAR the cheapest
way to go. If you go in open class racing, I suspect that your average
annual equipment expenditure will be at least twice as much as One D. class.
As for the non-adrenaline junkies on the net, you may think that racing is
not for you, that all you want is to take it easy and enfoy yourself.
Well I suggest that you try racing once, and I bet a lot of you will be
hooked for a long time. A lot of racing circuits also offers something
similar to what we have in Ontario: a Fun Fleet, in which the level of
competitiveness among sailors is quite low, the main purpose being to have
fun sailing will a big bunch of poeple around a race course.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice Boily
Frank Geick - INGRES/ADVISOR x3558
: By the time the fin is really working, the wind and chop is too
: high for this size board. The trouble is that many major board
: makers, e.g. Bic with the Samba, do not make a strong
: enough fin box for a nice big new blade fin.
: It was all the difference in the world when I replaced the stock fin
: in my old New Malibu with a 15" blade. I finally figured out how the
: rest of the sailors stayed upwind on screaming beam reaches rather than
: having to fall off onto a broad reach.
This is the problem I had with my F2 Strato. Which was an otherwise great
board. In all the places I sailed in SF Bay region (Coyote, Berkeley, Rio
Vista) it's poor pointing ability made it unpleasant to sail. You couldn't
get back to the beach with any kind of speed (ie planning) you had to
drop off the plane and dink it in (just like I do sometimes on my slalom
board when I really have to pinch up wind...). Putting a big True Ames
pointer really helped, but not enough. Also, the SF Bay hits 20-30knts
regularly, which is not T-board territory. If your location is 12-18knts
and you don't have to stay upwind to make it back to the beach, this
kind of board is really fun for a while.
Basically I found it easier to switch to a BIC Astro-rock than to continue
with the F2. When I finally waterstarted - it was on the Astro (easier to
get the board to submerge under your back foot, and easier to position).
My first sort-of-successful jibe attempts were on the Astro.
For a month, I switched back and forth and found the giant slalom board
to produce more progress with less effort. The only reason I kept using
the F2 was the fixation beginners have on "standing on a board" and
stability. Once I stopped focusing on my feet (and the stability of the
board), the slalom board became the only choice.
Software Research
>akei...@aol.com (AKeister) writes:
>>to jump from a ~220 liter beginner board directly to a ~130 liter slalom. Do
>>people actually do it?
I jumped from an O'Brien Elite (~220 l) to a Bic Tempo (~100 l). It took me
a while to get use to the small board, but I'm glad I did that. I was able
to get in straps, jibe, and waterstart on the Elite before I bought the Tempo,
though.
-Hong
Brian Donnelly
|> >windsurfing for the pleasure it gives them. maybe some will have
|> >comments?)
|> >
|> >jeremy
|>
|> Simple, you are dead wrong.
|> You just don't know enough women to get a decent sample size. I have
|> several female sailing friends that windsurf many times per week, some
|> daily. They forsake shopping except for gear when the blow comes late.
|>
|> Kirk out
KIrK
I am in full agreement with you. My wife sails with me all the time
and it's great. All of my close windsurfing friends' wives also sail.
--Brian
Jill Warvel
>(imho: women don't seem to need to be so driven... they seem to just enjoy
>windsurfing for the pleasure it gives them. maybe some will have
>comments?)
As for me, I purchased my sailboard solely for the purpose of going to the
mall to do some shopping. I even had little shopping bag carriers installed
on it. Of course, I won't go if the wind is over 7 kts... I wouldn't want
to fall in and get my hair all wet!
NOTTTTTTTTT!!!!
- Jill :)
Craig Goudie
>Craig:
>K Winner.
Touche Ken,
I'd agree with this, they probably would be better off. There is
still the psychological advantage of thinking your getting better
because you're dropping to a smaller (transitional board), which
might eventually pull you into the sport.
I don't know how I ever got started defending transition boards.
I don't like'um, definately don't like centerboards, and have been
net pummeled numerous times by the long board guys for saying so.
Probably what I ment to defend was the psychology of having fun
no matter what you're on.
Craig
Craig Goudie
>rick
>jeremy
Hi Jeremy,
All the women I know that sail (this does not include my wife) must have
estophrenia, because when they get out on the water, they hoop and holler,
and jump and jibe, just like the men, sometimes better.
Adrenaline is a highly addictive substance, if you have an addictive
personality. It makes some people (male and female) fly high, it makes
other people (male and fenmale) sick to there stomach.
Your reaction (male or female) will depend on your brain chemistry.
Some people get pleasure from peaceful beauty, and some get it on the
edge of disaster.
Craig (guess where I get mine?)
Colas Nahaboo
|> >boards over 185 liters for people who prefer to windsurf
|> >in light to moderate winds.
another factor might be storage space. my wife's 310cm mistral evolution fits
nicely inside my van, and I know friends who live in flats find it much easier
to
get a 310 in their building than a 390...
--
Colas Nahaboo, Koala (Bull Research)
Mosaic Info: <A HREF="http://zenon.inria.fr:8003/koala/colas.html"></A>
Dag Johansen Esq.
: >(imho: women don't seem to need to be so driven... they seem to just enjoy
: NOTTTTTTTTT!!!!
Hehehe, way to show 'em Jill. :-)
gr...@edlane.lane.edu
or testyrical?
I always get testyrical when it's nukin' and I can't get off work.
pablow
felix.cabral
Ok this thread has been going on for a while I've been staying away but I feel
compelled to add my two cents (sorry) :-)
In article <2o17m7$5...@cnn.sim.ES.COM> cgo...@Endor.sim.es.com (Craig Goudie) writes:
>kwi...@BIX.com (kwinner on BIX) writes:
>
>
>>Craig:
>
>>You defend transitions boards by saying that some people
>>don't want the high-end, adrenaline-pumping action that
>>some of us want. I agree that such people don't need
>>slalom boards, but I'm not so sure that means they should
>>be on transition boards.
>
>>K Winner.
>
>I'd agree with this, they probably would be better off. There is
>still the psychological advantage of thinking your getting better
>because you're dropping to a smaller (transitional board), which
>might eventually pull you into the sport.
Like most here on the net I agree its better to go from a large beginner
board to a floaty (140+ liter) slalom board. Although there are some very
nice transition boards like the fanatic bat, mistral malibu and some others
there are some that could hurt you're advancement. For example, some of these
boards have the mast rack too far forward. This makes it difficult to learn
how to get into your straps.
I have a friend that took forever getting into the foot straps until he tried
a slalom board. It is no secret a slalom board is much easier to get into
the straps than much larger boards. SOme will debate this but for the most
part I'll always believe this to be true. I own a course board and find it
easier to control, sail fast, and use the straps than a clunky transition
board. Take a look at the mast track placement of a course board compared to
a transition board. You'll see what I mean.
>
>I don't know how I ever got started defending transition boards.
>I don't like'um, definately don't like centerboards, and have been
>net pummeled numerous times by the long board guys for saying so.
>
There is no comparison between course boards and transition boards. In fact
a (GOOD) course board can handle 25 knots (tricky) much, much easier than
a transition board. You can also sail much faster, jibe better and carry a
larger range of sails on a course board. I love short boards. I own an 8.0,
8.8 and 9.6 boards. However, with my mega cat I can sail on a plane while
those who own only short boards sit on the beach.
Besides, being able to sail a multitude of board and sail sizes makes you that
much better. A couple years ago I raced in the USWA nationals. The wind was
light so most had to use course boards. I only had a 8.2m2 sail while others
had 10 and 11 sqmeter sails. I was able to beat guys like Matt/Kevin Pritchard
and Scott Trudon on some of the heats. These guys are awesome sailors but did
not know how to use course boards. It was funny seeing them have such difficulty
on large boards. I still respected them but what a difference it would have
been if they had more experience on course boards.
--
Felix Cabral {fel...@hogpa.att.com} "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs { att!hogpa!felixc } a rad board, rad waves,
Holmdel,NJ { (908)949-1188 } and a company sickday!"
Kirk Lindstrom
The original "hypothesis" was that it was a "male hormone" thing that
addicted men to the wind and thus left women out. I countered by saying
that it only takes ONE counter example to disprove that theory and
several have posted to disprove it. I think Craig hit it on the head
with adrenaline junkies.....either sex will be afflicted.
Funny, I got several emails saying I was wrong since they could
offer examples that showed one or more women that weren't afflicted with
the wind disease. This proves nothing though it may support the original
hypothesis.
Kirk (sez engineer and scientist on my card) out
Michael Jarriel x4751
>In article <431...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, ki...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:
>>(imho: women don't seem to need to be so driven... they seem to just enjoy
>> windsurfing for the pleasure it gives them. maybe some will have
>> comments?)
>>
>> jeremy
Jeremy, My wife used to race sailboards and play other
very competitive sports. She is a very succesful
software engineer. We have a 4 year old daughter,
two full time jobs and stil manage to get in a reasonable
amount of windsurfing. I know plenty of other women who
are very focused and goal oriented and succesful too.
I saw a cute saying somewhere awhile ago that said
something to the effect, "To get ahead in this world,
women have to work twice as hard as men, fortunately
that's not difficult".
I think you are way off base.
-Mike-
--
ARINC Research Inc mjar...@srg.srg.af.mil
SRG, Mail Stop 5-230 uunet!srg!mjarriel
2551 Riva Road, Annapolis, MD 21401 410-266-4751
WudaLyf
Naw, I kinda like...penisterical or penilphrenic or penilsteria...