what kind of board for a beginner/intermediate windsurfer? go?
bertbarndoor
What boards should I consider? About 15 years ago I took a weeks worth
of lessons and got somewhat proficient. Over the years, I've at most
dabbled, mostly on lake Ontario. I've never used a harness and I never
did waterstarts. Now, I am starting to learn harness and I am going to
take a few more lessons just to make sure I drill home the basics, as
I make this a more frequent hobby/sport.
So, what should I be looking at for boards and the rest of the rig?
Money is not a huge concern, but I'm not looking to break the bank
either. If I could get setup for less than $3k, I think I would be
happy.
I am 5'11 and 185 lbs. I will be sailing on almost exclusively flat
water. I want a board that will be fun to sail in moderate winds (I'm
not sure what the average windspeed is on the lake, but I don't think
it is usually outrageous blowing). I want a board where I can refine
the basics, learn to use the harness well, and have fun sailing
thereafter. I'd like something that won't be super hard to 'learn' on,
but that I can also retain and refine intermediate skills on. I don't
want a raft with a sail that I will outgrow in a day, but I don't want
a board that will discourage me and make me give up.
So, I've been looking at the Starboard Go line. They have a few
different models. Anything else I should consider? What are your
thoughts on how many liters? How many, what type of sails? Any other
boards of note? Of course I am going to see advice from the store, but
I'd like to be armed with some knowledge ahead of time. Thanks,
Rob
Bob T
centerboard which will help stabilize the board as you get your sea
legs, and it should be challenging and fun enough to keep you
entertained for years to come.
sm...@fit.edu
traditionally, the Gos have been beginner boards. Board choice really
depends on what level you hope to achieve, how often you plan to sail,
& what conditions you plan to sail in. 99% of the people in your
position would be looking at a free-ride board (assuming you're
looking to get into planing sailing). These are just good all-around
boards. Virtually all manufacturers make free-ride boards, so really
the two considerations should be size & construction. Lighter boards
will be more fun but more succeptible to damage and more expensive.
For a person your size, you would probably be looking at board volumes
ranging from 120L up to 160L. 120L would be for a fairly aggressive
person looking to sail mostly in somewhat higher winds (say 16 to
22mph average). 160L for someone less aggressive, or only sailing a
few times a year, or for sailing in lighter winds (say 8 to 18mph
average).
The same type of considerations would me made for sails. A free ride
sail with 0 to 2 cams would be perfectly suitable. Also, i you're
open to owning two sails, you could really extend your sailable days.
Something like an 8.5 and a 6.3 could probably be made to work on one
mast and boom and would give you a lot of wind range.
sm
Zephyr
Rob,
where on Lake Ontario do you sail?
there is a club in Toronto, (that you may know about,) and a number of
guys sail in the Hamilton Harbour fairly regularly.
Those guys may know the best board for the local conditions... Go
down and talk to any of them while rigging, most are really friendly
My 2 cents... I like the GO line alot for someone trying to
progress. its a good comprimise between stability and fun. You can
get a GO really going, and its not so narrow that you will spend the
bulk of your time in rather than on the water.
If you are serious about getting into the sport you will ultimately
want to get 2 boards (maybe 3 or 4 or 7 :) ), one for lighter wind,
and one for stronger wind.
if you are in the golden horseshoe a 140 ish litre board with a 7-8
metre sail will definitly server you well, another plus about such a
combination is that as you progress, that setup can become your
lighter wind setup, and a smaller board and sail can be your high wind
kit. Starboard isn't the only one that makes a nice progress oriented
board, anything in the 135 - 140 litre range with a bit of a eva deck
could serve well for you. Used boards in that range are often hard to
come by for a reason, people keep them because even as they get
better at sailing, the boards remain fun.
others with much more experiense than I will be sure to chime in.
Dave
Unknown
here is some advice from a not-so-advanced Toronto sailor:get
ANYTHING, but with a (retractable) daggerboard! Regardless of which
shore you sail, the wind will almost always come from the wrong
direction, and push you all the way down to the middle of the
lake... coming back up wind is much harder on a shortboard without
dagger. The winds on Ontario are generally light, and tend to die
quickly just about when you decide to get back to your car... yes I
can testify to it, at 180 lb in 3 knots upwind you (and I) are not a
rocket.
Eventually, you will get more experienced and not use the dagger,
but I like the little added security it offers, especially for
someone less experienced. A dagger also means bigger volume/more
stability, and that translates into fewer dips into the icy
waters... brrrr
Your budget allows you to walk into any one of the area retailers
and come out with a complete setup. They also have gear swaps, but
those IMHO tend to offer plenty of small boards (under 140) and very
few real world volumes(160+). I would stick with the second choice!
either way, good luck and hope to see you on the water
Marek
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Tyler
options....
http://www.whitecapwindsurfing.com/rental/05firstgear.html
"bertbarndoor" <bertba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3669e530-5045-4c13...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
RosEl...@gmail.com
listed above. With a bigger than stock fin and a big sail they will
get planing very early and have a fairly wide range; but biggish chop
and over 20 knots and you won't be too happy, but probably you won't
get those conditions too often anyway. There are lots of other boards
that are just as good and perhaps a little cheaper; there aren't
really any BAD boards made anymore (which wasn't true 20 years ago!)
You might think seriously about a modern longboard. The Starboard
Phantom is a little short to be in the category, and might be a little
high-end/racey for what you want (though I haven't seen one in the
flesh, others may differ). The Kona One (which I have) and the RRD
Longrider (which is a very similar design) don't do any one thing
spectacularly, but are spectacular in being able to be good, if not
great, at almost everything. There are lots of stand-up paddleboards
that can be sailed as well, but most of these are meant to surf
primarily, and you will enjoy the security of a daggerboard for going
upwind. The daggerboard and modest width means that they are fun to
sail when the wind isn't enough to plane (and a Go isn't, its too wide
and short and you will get bored quickly). They are also really fun
when the wind gets enough to plane, and the Kona is a particularly
sweet jiber. They won't plane up quite as easily as something like a
Go, but it doesn't take much more wind and once going they are just as
fast as even small boards; certainly fast enough to give you a good
scare! When the wind does come up they smooth out waves/big chop much
better than a big freeride. They are good to learn on (especially
for your stage, where you have the initial basics) and experts still
find them fun. The long tail (& nose!) makes clearing the sail easy
when learning waterstarts. The only downsides really are the length
(12 feet, you need a full-size van to get one inside) and the weight
(about 16 kg) if you have to carry it any distance or have a
particularly bad back. Still, many people manage canoes and kayaks
that are even longer and much heavier!
PC
Good advice on longer boards there, from an experienced crew. You need
consider larger volume for Lake Ontario (flaky wind). Even Kingston I
have found rather average the last 2-3 years. Nostalgia is not what it
used to be...
I find many shops dangle at beginners the macho thing ("I'm into
speed, buy short, planing is the only thing"), regardless of the your
actual needs and inclinations. Actually the sales guy often stares at
his own muscles as he talks to you.
Again, unless you want to start the sempiternal quiver, start longer
with dagger, play around 1-2-3 years.
jeff feehan
mb...@rogers.com wrote:
> Rob,
> here is some advice from a not-so-advanced Toronto sailor:get
> ANYTHING, but with a (retractable) daggerboard!
good advice here.
a daggerboard will be really helpful. i have a Go (older non-daggerboard
model) that i got to teach others (including my kids) on, and it never
really worked.
there are a lot of boards w daggerboards now, and it seems that your main
choice will be deciding where on the racing performance - free ride
spectrum you want to be.
Robert...@gmail.com
> For a person your size, you would probably be looking at board volumes
> ranging from 120L up to 160L. 120L would be for a fairly aggressive
> person looking to sail mostly in somewhat higher winds (say 16 to
> 22mph average). 160L for someone less aggressive, or only sailing a
> few times a year, or for sailing in lighter winds (say 8 to 18mph
> average).
> > The same type of considerations would me made for sails. A free ride
> sail with 0 to 2 cams would be perfectly suitable. Also, i you're
> open to owning two sails, you could really extend your sailable days.
> Something like an 8.5 and a 6.3 could probably be made to work on one
> mast and boom and would give you a lot of wind range.
Hi and thanks for the info. Based on what I've read, I was already
thinking of something around 150l. I am pretty good getting up on the
board, so I don't need a raft, but I also don't want to make things
overly difficult for me in chop. How much of a difference is there
between 150 and 160??? As for sails, I had planned on getting 2-3. If
I got 2, any opinions on what sizes? (I see you mentioned 8.5 and 6.3--
would there be any further thoughts on why these two sizes would be
ideal. What if I were to go with 3 sails? Then what sizes do you
think?) Cheers. -Rob
Robert...@gmail.com
> On Apr 9, 10:13 am, bertbarndoor <bertbarnd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> where on Lake Ontario do you sail?
> there is a club in Toronto, (that you may know about,) and a number of
> progress. its a good comprimise between stability and fun. You can
> get a GO really going, and its not so narrow that you will spend the
> bulk of your time in rather than on the water.
> If you are serious about getting into the sport you will ultimately
> want to get 2 boards (maybe 3 or 4 or 7 :) ), one for lighter wind,
> and one for stronger wind.
> if you are in the golden horseshoe a 140 ish litre board with a 7-8
> metre sail will definitly server you well, another plus about such a
> board, anything in the 135 - 140 litre range with a bit of a eva deck
> could serve well for you.
Hi and thanks for the info. I will be sailing mostly in Ottawa at
Brittania Beach I suppose, as well as trips to Kingston for Lake
Ontario. The only thing that worries me about the GO is the lack of
center board and extreme width. It has even been mentioned in this
thread that I would be doing myself a disservice by purchasing a board
without a center board. Some have also said that the GO is just a bit
too 'beginnerish' to serve as an intermediate cross-over. I dunno,
others have said that it is great for both. Does Starboard make a GO
board with a center board? You mention a few other manufacturers in
the general space I am looking at. Any boards you are thinking about
specifically so that I can go read up on them? Thanks,
Rob
Robert...@gmail.com
> here is some advice from a not-so-advanced Toronto sailor:get
> ANYTHING, but with a (retractable) daggerboard! Regardless of which
> shore you sail, the wind will almost always come from the wrong
> direction, and push you all the way down to the middle of the
> lake... coming back up wind is much harder on a shortboard without
> dagger. The winds on Ontario are generally light, and tend to die
> quickly just about when you decide to get back to your car... yes I
> can testify to it, at 180 lb in 3 knots upwind you (and I) are not a
> rocket.
> Eventually, you will get more experienced and not use the dagger,
> but I like the little added security it offers, especially for
> someone less experienced. A dagger also means bigger volume/more
> stability, and that translates into fewer dips into the icy
> waters... brrrr
Hi Marek, thanks for your response. I have to admit that I was worried
about getting a board without a center board, but I find it curious
that the GO doesn't have one if it is that important, given that it is
supposed to be a 'beginnerish' board. But yes, I have to admit, the
lack of centerboard is a nagging concern in the back of my head. I
have sailed lake Ontario before and I have run into issues with
getting back upwind. Can anyone in the group throw out a few models
for me to research? I think we are narrowing it down here... Around
150l, give or take, center board ideal, stability and early planing
ideal, ability to cross-over to intermediate skills ideal. Thanks
again...
Robert...@gmail.com
> You need to check out this link -- he does a great run down of the
> options....http://www.whitecapwindsurfing.com/rental/05firstgear.html
>
however, all the boards discussed seem to have A LOT of flotation. I
am trying to stay around the 150l mark I think, based on what I've
read. I am fairly comfortable getting up onto most boards, but I am
going to err on the side of a bit more flotation then a bit less. I
can always get a real short board if I start to become way-skilled.
Good article though...
Unknown
as far as various boards with centreboard, Fanatic makes a Viper, F2
has a Discovery, Bic has the older 293 (got one) and some newer
Hybrid (240?), Mistral has something too and I am sure more brands
all have something to offer. No personal experiences (other than the
293), so no help here.
I would not be concerned much about going large with the overall
volume: after you throw it on the water, even a 200+ can go so fast
to scare the &#!$ out of you! And if it becomes to big too soon,
there is not problem selling it!
Last Saturday at the swap 2 guys were fighting over a 200+ board -
the only one - while a dozen of 110 short boeard were totally
disregarded... sort of having a 4.0m sail - how often can you use
it?
Also check out the Kona One/Style that someone mentioned... sweet
board I hear, would love to give it a try. If you buy one I'll drive
to Ottawa just to sail on it! :)
That would be my #1 choice, but I already have a shortboard hence
the interest in the longer stuff...
John I
> ------------------- ----- ---- -- -
Florida windfest this upcoming weekend, April 19+20. Come on down for
a demo on a Kona! Calema is co-hosting the event. More info at
www.aerotechsails.com. Worth the drive to kick start your spring
windsurfing season, perhaps? I live on my Kona 11-5 in the surf!
Nearly any wind/wave combo worx. Cheers.
peekski...@verizon.net
Rob,
I went through all of this myself a few years ago. My first board WAS
a
Go 165, which I bought on other peoples' advice. It was not a great
choice. The width was fine for learning but otherwise it was slow in
light
winds and its upwind ability was pretty minimal.
Check out my blog at:
http://hudsonwindsurfer.blogspot.com/
This may help. I eventually replaced the Go with a Kona. If I was to
start again with a wideboard (which isn't as necessary as everybody
says), I'd get a Starboard Rio or a JP Funster. They both have that
daggerbaord the Go lacks.
-Ian
Unknown
thanks for the Florida info - not this year, but perhaps will fit a
drive down soth into next year's calendar
good winds
Marek
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rod.r
light winds and its upwind ability was pretty minimal"
hi ian. i assume you are talking about sub-planing?
i have a kona but have just bought a 2006 go 170
specifically because in light wind planing conditions
the go will be quicker to plane, faster on a plane,
and go upwind better.
btw, nice blog
regards,
rod
Zephyr
Rob,
sorry bout the delay in getting back,
A center board is a great thing in certain situations,
in others, its a PIA. The centerboard helps you cut upwind much
better, typically in non planing situations. In planing situations,
the centerboard if not retracted or removed makes the board more
difficult to handle, and slows you down. Long narrow boards almost
always have them because a good % of the time they are used in non
planing winds. A wider board such as a go is going to be planing more
often than not. as such, when planing on a GO you really don't want
a centerboard. The exception to this is when you are not planing on
the board of course, and this happens mainly when you are at the very
early stages of learning, and, when teaching others.
To fix this situation the Manu's make retractable centerboards. If
you look at the Start by starboard older versions had a non
retractable centerboard and new versions have a retractable
centerboard. This would indicate that the start is really targeted at
begining windsurfers. The GO on the otherhand doesn't normally have a
center board because it is targted at the sailer who may be able to
get on a plane, but not much else yet.
Again, once on a plane if you have a decent fin in the back, a
centerboard is not necessary.
If you are an absolute beginner, then a centerboard is a must, but
with experience a centerboard becomes a burden.
As for the width issue... width is your friend. it makes it much
easier to balance, and try new things, jybes ect.
The width will also give you the ability to get planing earlier then a
narrower board and so it can make you faster.
Width is not a silver bullet though, and when non planing width just
makes you slower, but, if you are in non planing wind, the width
does still allow you the extra balance that a narrow board would not.
Also at some point width will make the board harder to control in
higher winds. wind can get under the board and lift it out of the
water when it is really blowing. I wouldn't worry about that at all
because, you won't want to sail in those winds untill you feel more
proficient, and at that time, you'll be looking to add a second board
anyways.
There used to be a guy named steve ?slaby? who was from the ottawa /
kingston area who posted here on recdot a lot, he might be around and
give you some good ideas for your local conditions
Dave
I found some contact info from a previous thread, check it out below.
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