Switching from 125 to 115 board, the same model - complicated decision
marek
I'm looking into switching to a smaller board to learn more and handle
chop/harsher conditions better.
I'm thinking about changing from 125/69cm Tabou Rocket to 115/64cm
(same model, perhaps lighter version).
The larger sail I want to use is 7.5 (my weight 85-90kg, I sail lakes/
bays/choppy water).
Currently my Rocket 125 gets me on plane with 7.5 in the marginal
conditions, I'm wondering how 115 will be different in that (I'm sure
it needs more wind than 125, the question is how much more or maybe
it'll only stop in the wind holes more often than 125).
Another question is the fin setup: right now I use 46cm with 7.5 and
37cm with 6.4 and 5.2 (too big, I know, but I rarely sail in 5.2
weather).
115 comes with 37/38cm fin and can also handle 7.5 - so should I use
this fin as maximum or my previous 46cm?
-marek
(PeteCresswell)
>Currently my Rocket 125 gets me on plane with 7.5 in the marginal
>conditions, I'm wondering how 115 will be different
Make sure it can handle a 7.5 meter sail.
My 106L wave board couldn't handle that big of a sail. Don't get
me wrong: it would, technically, sail... but it didn't feel good
at all.
The 120L board I replaced it with can, but barely... and I find
myself not using it with anything larger than 6.9.
OTOH, I had a 127 that could take 7.5 no problem at all... and
was touted for up to 9 or 9.5.
--
PeteCresswell
VikingSail
when selecting a fin. Sail size and wind conditions take priority.
marek
> Per marek:
>
> >Currently my Rocket 125 gets me on plane with 7.5 in the marginal
> >conditions, I'm wondering how 115 will be different
>
> Make sure it can handle a 7.5 meter sail.
Should be ok. The same model 125 worked like a charm even with 9.0.
I'm just concerned how much early planing I will loose switching to
115 vs. how much better in chop handling it will be.
Another option is to get a 2nd board, 106 FSW (freemove/style/wave),
Tabou 3S.
-marek
Ben Kaufman
I don't think that going from a 125L to a 115L (same model) is going to make
that much of a difference with regard to handling harsher conditions. I would
keep the 125 and get a 95 for a high wind board.
Ben
Wolfgang Soergel
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:44:17 -0700 (PDT), marek<mzaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm looking into switching to a smaller board to learn more and handle
>> chop/harsher conditions better.
>> I'm thinking about changing from 125/69cm Tabou Rocket to 115/64cm
>> (same model, perhaps lighter version).
>>
>> The larger sail I want to use is 7.5 (my weight 85-90kg, I sail lakes/
>> bays/choppy water).
>> Currently my Rocket 125 gets me on plane with 7.5 in the marginal
>> conditions, I'm wondering how 115 will be different in that (I'm sure
>> it needs more wind than 125, the question is how much more or maybe
>> it'll only stop in the wind holes more often than 125).
>>
>> Another question is the fin setup: right now I use 46cm with 7.5 and
>> 37cm with 6.4 and 5.2 (too big, I know, but I rarely sail in 5.2
>> weather).
>> 115 comes with 37/38cm fin and can also handle 7.5 - so should I use
>> this fin as maximum or my previous 46cm?
The 46 would be the better option for marginal conditions i guess, 37cm
sounds right for well powered on a 6.5-7.0, if we talk about straight
line sailing. But...
> I don't think that going from a 125L to a 115L (same model) is going to make
> that much of a difference with regard to handling harsher conditions. I would
> keep the 125 and get a 95 for a high wind board.
>
... this sounds like the much better option imho. Sure, you could easily
use a 115l board as your big one (i'm 65-70 kg, depending on how much
running i get and use a 90l Freestyle-Wave board as biggest float in
light inland conditions) but in the beginning you may appreciate the
opportunity to revert to your old board in lighter conditions. 95 seems
fine, you should still be able to uphaul and slog the thing at least as
long as it isn't too choppy and it will carry anthing up to 6.8 or so
with no problems. And there will be a real difference in feeling to your
current ship.
Servus
Wolfgang
marek
[...]
> > I don't think that going from a 125L to a 115L (same model) is going to make
> > that much of a difference with regard to handling harsher conditions. I would
> > keep the 125 and get a 95 for a high wind board.
>
> ... this sounds like the much better option imho. Sure, you could easily
> use a 115l board as your big one (i'm 65-70 kg, depending on how much
> running i get and use a 90l Freestyle-Wave board as biggest float in
> light inland conditions) but in the beginning you may appreciate the
> opportunity to revert to your old board in lighter conditions. 95 seems
> fine, you should still be able to uphaul and slog the thing at least as
> long as it isn't too choppy and it will carry anthing up to 6.8 or so
> with no problems. And there will be a real difference in feeling to your
> current ship.
>
> Servus
> Wolfgang
Thanks.
I was actually thinking about 106 ltr freestyle/wave (Tabou 3S). It
really will be stretching my skills in terms of stability, that's why
I'm afraid of getting a smaller version (plus I don't really get hi-
wind conditions that often, I think my 6.4 sail will be in use mostly
with that board).
What do you think about 106?
And is there any argument (except price) against the carbon version?
I've heard glass versions dump vibrations better which may be good for
intermediates.
-marek
marek
the same dimensions as Tabou 3S 106). Will it be ok in terms of size?
Mike Helms
The Rocket 105 may work better I think it will Plan up faster than the
3S
Wolfgang Soergel
> I was actually thinking about 106 ltr freestyle/wave (Tabou 3S). It
> really will be stretching my skills in terms of stability, that's why
> I'm afraid of getting a smaller version (plus I don't really get hi-
> wind conditions that often, I think my 6.4 sail will be in use mostly
> with that board).
> What do you think about 106?
I don't know the specific board but most proably it will be OK with a
6.4 But as i said: as long as you do not feel absolutely confident i'd
recommend to keep the bigger board for the light days. Small boards are
great. If you get them going or at least know what you are doing.
> And is there any argument (except price) against the carbon version?
> I've heard glass versions dump vibrations better which may be good for
> intermediates.
I don't buy the vibration argument. I had some quit heavy boards
(homegrown, if you use lot's of 'light' materials the result will be
heavy nevertheless...) and some light ones (after i learned how much
reinforcements to use) and always liked lighter boards better,
especially in harsh conditions. YMMV
(PeteCresswell)
>And is there any argument (except price) against the carbon version?
>I've heard glass versions dump vibrations better which may be good for
>intermediates.
I guess that's a matter of taste - tradeoffs and all that.
But I'm pretty sure glass boards ride smoother in chop.
Two reasons:
1) A major figure in board building told me so.
2) I watched two guys at Hatteras on a 4.0 day.
Both about the same size riding similar-sized boards,
but one was carbon/styrofoam and the other was
poly resin/glass/surfboard foam.
It was really obvious that the carbon board was
chattering and bouncing around a lot while the
glass board was just sort of gliding through
the chop.
What's missing is the comparative bottom shapes
of the two boards - my conclusion depending on
their being sufficiently similar.
--
PeteCresswell
marek
There is nothing better than holiday testing.
After sailing for 2 weeks in 4.0 - 6.4 conditions and major chop/
swells + even some break I'm 100% sure I need a freewave board. :-)))
I mostly used Fanatic Freewave 115 and 105 and these boards are sooo
sweet!
I was pleasantly surprised I can handle 105 without a problem (4.0 -
5.3 sails).
115 was also sweet and I took it when the conditions were more 6.4 or
even 7.0.
No I don't know which size should I get (my weight 85 kg).
For sure 105 needs more wind but it also handles considerably better.
Another complications is that I tried mistral 3style (same size) and
it sucked (not only my opinion). Now I have an option to get RRD fsw
110 ltr but can't test it before buying - hope it will be as good or
better than Fanatic.
Any help appreciated.
-marek
Ben Kaufman
As I said on 7/29, going from 125 to 115 is not that big a difference. Keep the
125 and get the 105 as a higher wind board.
Ben
marek
doll...@pobox.com> wrote:
[...]
> As I said on 7/29, going from 125 to 115 is not that big a difference. Keep the
> 125 and get the 105 as a higher wind board.
I got RRD fsw (freestyle-wave) 110 ltr (64cm).
What a board! Buttery smooth in the chop, very maneuverable yet stable
in back and forth sailing. Planes extremely easy! (I have a wind meter
and I was able to get and stay on decent plane in 13kts, with a 7.5
sail and my 85kg).
So far I've been able only to test it in light 7.5 conditions, but it
feels like the board is custom made for me. It's true what people say
about roberto ricci designs.
Since 7.5, my larger sail works flawlessly (with large, 37cm fin) I'm
going to get rid of my 125/69cm freeride anyway.
In the future, perhaps I'll get a typical wave board as my second
board, for ~4.0 conditions. I guess I'll start with a large wave board
~90 ltr, what do you think?
-marek
Dan Weiss
marek, I think large wave boards work great for most sites that lack
consistent side-off conditions. That bit of extra float means a great
deal when trying to get out through white water, and a 90+ liter wave
board often allows the use of a slightly longer fin that will make
keeping upwind a lot easier. I use a variety of boards for this
stuff, including a 90 liter Angulo SuperGu (not a strict wave board,
but pretty close) and a 99 liter AHD PiT that is a true down-the-line
board best for onshore waves in lighter winds. To compare, the Angulo
is very fast and rewards technique that is super aggressive. It also
is more forgiving, strangely, in that it sails well even if my butt
starts to drop when I'm tired. The AHD sails just fine without a lot
of input but really comes alive when I sail a bit more over the center
line. The AHD's rails seem a bit easier to engage on a bottom turn
and the board will respond more rapidly than the SuperGU in
transitions off the top.
That said, I much prefer the feel of the Angulo. I like fast boards
in general regardless of the type as I find it easier to sail across a
broad range of conditions. Ed Angulo's shapes feel wonderfully
"surfy" even at these higher speeds, and it is this speed that I find
useful in making power moves with less actual input or force from
me. I pick the Angulo over the AHD if the wind is more onshore or
the wind isn't filled in well in the lineup, both of which often occur
simultaneously. The AHD comes out whenever the wind approaches side-
shore depending, of course, on current.
My point is, don't think only in terms of volume when selecting a
lighter-wind wave board. Consider the dominant conditions of wind and
water for the particular wind strength you have in mind.
Bill
Hi Marek
The key here with either board is remember the board rig and fin are
each 1/3 of the system. If we assume biggest sail is 7.5, then the
addition of a 115 will require good fin planning. At your wieght with
the right fin, you should take off and go at around 12 or a bit more
with 7.5. You can do similar fin planning with 125 to extend range.
Let me know if I can help. I think first step is to plan the board
quiver, indicate sails you have or will buy. the plan organize fin
quiver to maximize.
I trust this helps, I have a fin business, but they are 1/3 of the
equation, the other factors must be known so you get the most. The
stock fins are not shaped right or very stable. Key is go upright here
size down as wind picks up. A Freewave/Freeride design only if you
are out in ocean or in big swells higher wind 34 to 37 where a smaller
board works better
Bill Kline
bi...@gsport.com
