Mistral - A Very Pathetic Story
colonwk
service practices. This letter was sent to Mistral over six months ago
and no response has yet been received. My goal in posting this letter
is only to disclose truths about Mistral's service so that all readers
can make educated decisions when considering the purchase of a new
board.
I write this letter to inform you that Mistral has successfully
converted two dedicated Mistral sailors to very, very unhappy
customers. Mistralÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s repetitive demonstration of its poor business
practices have convinced my brother and I that Mistralÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s warranty
policy is short of legitimate and that Mistral places little, if any,
value on their customers. Mistral can be guaranteed that my brother
and I will never purchase a Mistral product again, never recommend one
to windsurfing newcomers, and certainly never speak highly of your
products in our respective windsurfing circles.
Unhappy Story 1: San Francisco
I purchased a Mistral Screamer 260 in February, 1998. The board rode
beautifully. The volume fit my weight, ability and San Francisco
sailing conditions perfectly. In fact, the board was so fun that I
recommended the 260 to my brother who sails on Marthaÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s Vineyard and
the Cape. Unfortunately, I did so a little too early. After only 20 ÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff80ÿffff9c
30 sessions in the Bay, my board began to soften under the heel pads,
take on water, and delaminate on the bottom side of the front half of
the board. After months and months of phone calls on my part, I
finally received a warranty replacement board in March 1999.
The replacement board lasted less hours on the water than the original,
before similar symptoms of defective manufacturing developed. The
board quickly softened on the underside of the front half of the board.
To give credit where credit is due, Jeff Johnstone relentlessy returned
my calls over practically the entire season that it took us to find a
mutually convenient time to meet. Unfortunately, Mr. Johnstone denied
my warranty stating that the delamination on the bottom of the front of
the board was in fact softness due to less layers of glass used in the
manufacturing process. Less glass used in that section ÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff80ÿffff9c true;
reason for the board to be soft to the touch of the thumb ÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff80ÿffff9c ludicrous.
Unhappy customer number one!
Unhappy Story 2: Marthaÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s Vineyard
My brothers experience was different, but equally lame. Tim pulled his
Screamer 260 out of the plastic in May 1998 only to find delamination
around the skeg box. The board was replaced with one of lesser
quality. Hard to imagine, but true. This board suffered from a soft
deck around the foot strap area and eventually the rails and the deck
completely cracked on the tail of the board. After many justifiable
requests for a refund or an option to chose a replacement board, Tim
was sent a Mistral Flow as a replacement. Unbelievably this board was
again defective right out of the plastic, suffering from cracked rails
in the tail. To count, Tim has received THREE boards from Mistral and
does not need any spare fingers to count the number of times he has
sailed on a clean, non-defective board. It gets worse. This time
Mistral told Tim that he could not return the board, that this would be
his last replacement, and that if there truly was something wrong with
the board, he could fix it himself. Unhappy customer number two!
It is reasonable and fair to deduct from our experiences that Mistral
has a policy of replacing warranty boards with boards that are known
factory defects. It also seems clear that Mistralÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s intention is to
replace warranty boards with defects until the one-year policy expires
and then Mistral no longer concerns itself with its customers. Done
deal, money in the bank.
The quality of these boards and the warranty service provided by
Mistral is completely and absolutely unacceptable. It is obvious to
these former Mistral riders that your company places no value on
customer service, no value on the customer experience, and most
unfortunately, no value on the customer. As someone who has now spent,
several years with one of the most successful retailers in the world, I
would have the courage to bet this is not a long-term profitable
business practice. However, Mistral can be sure that Tim an I will
generously advertise this regrettable business philosophy to all those
we encounter, whether it be in the San Francisco Bay area, Marthaÿffffc3ÿffffa2ÿffffe2ÿffff82ÿffffacÿffffe2ÿffff84ÿffffa2s
Vineyard and the Cape, or anywhere in between.
I welcome your response if Mistral wishes to challenge any facts stated
in this letter. As of the first of the new year this letter will be
posted on several prominent Bay Area and National windsurfing websites.
No longer your customer,
WKC
TFC
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The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Mike F
"colonwk" > wrote in message
news:283beef1...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com...
> This is a very true, yet very pathetic story about Mistral's customer
> service practices. This letter was sent to Mistral over six months ago
> and no response has yet been received
> my warranty stating that the delamination on the bottom of the front of
> the board was in fact softness due to less layers of glass used in the
> generously advertise this regrettable business philosophy to all those
> posted on several prominent Bay Area and National windsurfing websites.
I LOVE it. Da Web is the second best form of protecting consumers from
arrogant companies to ever come down the pike. As long as colonwk is very
careful to present only verifiable facts, this kind of reporting should hit
Mistral full in the crotch. It's a shame so very few sailors are present
here; think of the impact if even half the windsurfers out there were made
aware of this kind of treatment. It's too bad no magazine has the balls to
exert some public or private pressure, as is common in many other fields. I
was seldom stifled by management when I tried to use PWR to induce changes
in gear, but I don't see that often from the current mags, Bic Hip Hop
notwithstanding.
I have no doubt of this post's credibility, because we've heard it here and
on the beach so many times, because it's articulate, and because I hear the
same thing from a dealer who used to sell Mistrals nationwide. It makes me
feel guilty having bought one of their boards recently, even though mine was
not literally new -- merely never used -- and thus has no warranty. I'm NOT
going to pamper it on the water; it it breaks I'm only out $700 and will
join your tirade. I got the same treatment from Pontiac in 1966, and have
not only refused to even consider them ever again, but have personally
convinced several buyers to pass on them, added fuel to a Congressional
mandate to back up their warranty or pay the piper, publicized their
maltreatments on the web, and physically scared the crap out of one Pontiac
regional rep. Tom Sanden, if you're still out there, you STILL better hope I
never find you alone.
Keep up the good work .... and be careful to keep your public comments
accurate and supportable. If Mistrtal threatens you, you should be able to
gather many supportive statements from this forum and its extended family.
Oh, yeah ... the "first" best defense: credit cards. Just as I bought this
PC on a 6-month interest-free card in case I had to reject it, I buy
EVERYTHING worth worrying about and breakable by credit card for one simple
reason: if we get screwed, we can dispute the charge and insert the shaft
from whence it came. Dell came VERY close to eating this computer, and I am
taking simple steps to ensure that I have a PERMANENT, IRREVOCABLE LEGAL
right to dispute its cost and pronounce the computer theirs.
Mike \m/
Tauras
Karina & Dan wrote in message ...
snip
>I truly despise online "flaming," so I will be happy to hear that
>NorthSports has clean hands. I even encourage those with specific
>information to post it here. But it remains apparent that "colonwk" and
>brother Tim got screwed by one of the controlling forces in US windsurfing.
>Certainly Mistral lost two customers. Perhaps it now is appropriate for
>NorthSports to make amends.
>
>Respectfully submitted,
>Dan Weiss
Nice... very polite, but a flame is still a flame around these parts Dan. So
you are excused and we await NOR-sports response and yes mistral has always
been often known as miserable in California ;)
Tauras
www.surfingsports.com
The Dog
I think we mean Jim Johnstone. And he has been a poster on this
group. I've met him several times, shared beers and a campsite.
Jim would do everything in his power to make this situation right.
Either he did not have enough power or it wasn't Mistral's fault.
That said, every company builds lemons. It's part of the production
process. It happens. No high volume production process is perfect.
Anyone who says it is is lying. But how a company owns up to something
that may be a lemon says a lot. I'm disappointed in Mistral/North
Sports, but would bet the latter half bears the majority of the blame.
I hope it gets sorted out to every one's satisfaction.
The Dog
Three Mistrals, No Failures (yet)
--
Brian "The Dog" Cunningham
http://web2.airmail.net/bcunning
Some days you're the dog,
and some days you're the hydrant.
Rainman
R.
--
Website: www.botanybay.cjb.net
"Mike F" <iso...@earthSpamDamlink.net> wrote in message
news:f2jX4.1539$pL.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
:
: "colonwk" > wrote in message
: news:283beef1...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com...
: > This is a very true, yet very pathetic story about Mistral's customer
: > service practices. This letter was sent to Mistral over six months ago
: > and no response has yet been received
: > ...Mr. Johnstone denied
: > my warranty stating that the delamination on the bottom of the front of
: > the board was in fact softness due to less layers of glass used in the
: > manufacturing process. ...Mistral can be sure that Tim an I will
: > generously advertise this regrettable business philosophy to all those
: > we encounter...As of the first of the new year this letter will be
: > posted on several prominent Bay Area and National windsurfing websites.
:
: I LOVE it. Da Web is the second best form of protecting consumers from
:
:
Mike F
"colonwk" wrote > This is a very true, yet very pathetic story about
Mistral's customer
> service practices. This letter was sent to Mistral over six months ...
Mr. Johnstone denied
> my warranty stating that the delamination on the bottom of the front of
> the board was in fact softness due to less layers of glass used in the
> Screamer 260 out of the plastic in May 1998 only to find delamination
> again defective right out of the plastic ...This time
> Mistral told Tim that he could not return the board, that this would be
> his last replacement, and that if there truly was something wrong with
> the board, he could fix it himself.
> Mistral is completely and absolutely unacceptable. >
> in this letter. As of the first of the new year this letter will be
> posted on several prominent Bay Area and National windsurfing websites.
Great post. Calm, rational, and, we presume, factual. But sadly, no
surprise. As you know, Mistral quality and service [WHAT ELSE IS THERE,
MISTRAL? IT SURE AIN'T PRICES!] have received much bad press here, and
prompted one mail-order Mistral dealer to dump them. Too bad that we have
only 80 (a guess, guys ... a GUESS), rather than 800,000, windsurfers on
this forum, buy maybe your other publicity efforts will pay off better. Bad
PR is probably our second best recourse for arrogant, shoddy business
practices.
Case in point: Pontiac Motors. Since they sold me a piece of garbage and
shoved my warranty up my tailpipe, I've refused to even consider another
Pontiac, have talked four ready-to-buyers out of their choice to buy
Pontiacs, provided data to a Congressional reaming of GM warranty services,
whined about Pontiac on several usenet forums many times, and physically
scared the crap out of a Pontiac Area Rep. Tom Sanden had STILL better hope
I never catch him alone. He's the only person I STILL bear a grudge against,
and that was in 1965.
But, be careful, guys. Although a libel judgement requires that you lie,
your lie damages the plaintiff'sreputation, and that damage costs them
money, they can still come down on you for harassment. If they try that, I
suggest you get back to us and ask for support. No company is going to try
to sue you for defamation if you're holding affidavits affirming similar
treatment of 46 other customers.
Our "first" best recourse, is, of course, credit cards. I buy virtually
EVERYTHING that costs over two bucks and can break by card anymore, so I can
feed their shoddy crap right back at 'em at their expense when it fails
prematurely. I am taking a simple step this week to ensure my federally
guaranteed, legal, irrevocable right to feed this computer back to Dell if
erasing my hard drive has not solved its many problems.
I took a gamble on a Flow. It was unused but half price (a warranty
replacement long since replaced by the buyer), it will not see a lot of use,
and I've beefed up its deck. If it fails prematurely, you'll hear about it.
Too bad the mags haven't the guts to bash shoddy makers, unlike some mags in
other fields.
Mike \m/
Mike F
server failed and claimed rec.windsurfing did not exist. It had still not
shown up even after several hours, even on a different ISP (AOL).
Mike \m/
dubois
because if the board is defective when coming out the box you won't have
to deal with, the shop will...
Francois
dubois
diplomatic when writting about manufacturers. When you think that France
is the biggest market for the windsurf industry (with Germany) than it
is understandable that the magazine can be more blunt in its criticism
as it doesn't live from publicity from the manufacturers but rather from
the sales of the magazine.
Later,
Francois
Mike F wrote:
>
> "colonwk" > wrote in message
> news:283beef1...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com..
> > This is a very true, yet very pathetic story about Mistral's customer
> > service practices. This letter was sent to Mistral over six months ago
> > and no response has yet been received
> > ...Mr. Johnstone denied
> > my warranty stating that the delamination on the bottom of the front of
> > the board was in fact softness due to less layers of glass used in the
> > manufacturing process. ...Mistral can be sure that Tim an I will
> > generously advertise this regrettable business philosophy to all those
> > we encounter...As of the first of the new year this letter will be
> > posted on several prominent Bay Area and National windsurfing websites.
>
> I LOVE it. Da Web is the second best form of protecting consumers from
> arrogant companies to ever come down the pike. As long as colonwk is very
> careful to present only verifiable facts, this kind of reporting should hit
> Mistral full in the crotch. It's a shame so very few sailors are present
> here; think of the impact if even half the windsurfers out there were made
> aware of this kind of treatment. It's too bad no magazine has the balls to
> exert some public or private pressure, as is common in many other fields. I
> was seldom stifled by management when I tried to use PWR to induce changes
> in gear, but I don't see that often from the current mags, Bic Hip Hop
> notwithstanding.
>
> I have no doubt of this post's credibility, because we've heard it here and
> on the beach so many times, because it's articulate, and because I hear the
> same thing from a dealer who used to sell Mistrals nationwide. It makes me
> feel guilty having bought one of their boards recently, even though mine was
> not literally new -- merely never used -- and thus has no warranty. I'm NOT
> going to pamper it on the water; it it breaks I'm only out $700 and will
> join your tirade. I got the same treatment from Pontiac in 1966, and have
> not only refused to even consider them ever again, but have personally
> convinced several buyers to pass on them, added fuel to a Congressional
> mandate to back up their warranty or pay the piper, publicized their
> maltreatments on the web, and physically scared the crap out of one Pontiac
> regional rep. Tom Sanden, if you're still out there, you STILL better hope I
Karina & Dan
brother Tim have endured callous and completely unacceptable treatment from
Mistral. I might add that while Mistral is the manufacturer, it seems
NorthSports is first in line for blame.
NorthSports is the exclusive US distributor of Mistral, NorthSports held
every possible remedy in its hand. That Jeff Johnstone worked to resolve
these problems is commendable. Assuming, arguendo, that NorthSports failed
to stand behind the products it distributes, its behavior in these two cases
really stinks. Whatever one thinks of its range of equipment, NorthSports
may not deserve further support by consumers of any of those products.
I truly despise online "flaming," so I will be happy to hear that
NorthSports has clean hands. I even encourage those with specific
information to post it here. But it remains apparent that "colonwk" and
brother Tim got screwed by one of the controlling forces in US windsurfing.
Certainly Mistral lost two customers. Perhaps it now is appropriate for
NorthSports to make amends.
Respectfully submitted,
Dan Weiss
"colonwk" <bcolonN...@etranslate.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:283beef1...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com...
Mike F
> NorthSports is the exclusive US distributor of Mistral, NorthSports held
> every possible remedy in its hand. That Jeff Johnstone worked to resolve
> these problems is commendable. Assuming, arguendo, that NorthSports
failed
> to stand behind the products it distributes, its behavior in these two
cases
> really stinks. Whatever one thinks of its range of equipment, NorthSports
> may not deserve further support by consumers of any of those products.
>
> I truly despise online "flaming," so I will be happy to hear that
> NorthSports has clean hands. I even encourage those with specific
> information to post it here. But it remains apparent that "colonwk" and
> brother Tim got screwed by one of the controlling forces in US
windsurfing.
> Certainly Mistral lost two customers. Perhaps it now is appropriate for
> NorthSports to make amends.
Silly me! I should have known NorthSports was in the middle of this. I had
forgotten that their reputation was much worse than Mistral's. They were a
huge PITA with the windsurfing mag I to work with. But as for hating on-line
flaming ... I support it very strongly when earned. It's a powerful club,
and a hell of a lot cheaper than litigation.
Mike \m/
Karina & Dan
him a number of years back in LA. He was with Mistral then, too. Very nice
guy indeed. Again, Jim's efforts on behalf of my friend are a shining
example of what's right about this sport.
-Dan
"The Dog" <bcunning_...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:75832DF38825CF3B.C5DBE358...@lp.airnews.net...
> > That Jeff Johnstone worked to resolve these problems is commendable.
>
Tom - Chicago
Parton.
BTW, ProTech has a sweet new 270 ATC with 103 liters which is an awesome board.
TO'B
Tom B
epoxy boards I saw. I never owned one though.
Isn't he having some boards made at the Cobra plant?
Anybody know the unit cost for boards made at the Cobra plant where they
use those cheap molds and have poor quality control vs when they were
made in Europe using those very expensive metal molds and better quality
control???
I wonder if at the Cobra plant they ever have any rejects. Is seems like
they must be puttying and painting everything and shipping it out?
Maybe my sources are full of it?
Tom - Chicago wrote:
>
> Buy a Pro-Tech instead.
John Mic
they will always fall apart because its intrinsically a very fragile
structure.OK there are plenty of advantages but durability is not one of
them thats why the pro's sell their boards so quickly.
Somebody really needs to come up with an alternative construction,its long
overdue.
Aerodyne/F2 looked like they were on to something and with some more
development this could have potential.
Suppose ws is just not big enough to justify the R&D dollars.
Robert Youdan
Australia at least, it is up to the IMPORTER to decide how to handle
warranties. This may be the same in USA. If this is the case, then your beef
should be with the importer, as he is the one giving you the crappy
replacement boards, not Mistral.
Rob
Rainman
..John, have a look at the Doyle boards.. They are similiar to the old
Aerodynes, but much stronger.
About the only thing that stops me sailing them is the stinkin' exchange
rate on the AU $
The url is: http://www.doylesports.com/wcrafted.html
R.
Website: www.botanybay.cjb.net
"John Mic" <wann...@msn.com.au> wrote in message
news:aMYX4.6597$c5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
: As long as boards are made the way they are i.e a chunk of laminated foam
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
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Mike F
"John Mic" wrote
> As long as boards are made the way they are i.e a chunk of laminated foam
> they will always fall apart because its intrinsically a very fragile
construction,its long
> overdue.
The air-cored boards sort of get around that problem.
Mike \m/
Skip Dennis
than you could possibly imagine and to be honest, they were VERY good about
sending replacements. Brad Whiting and Doug Hopkins were just terrific and
very few warranty claims went without replacement. In fact, out of the 15-20
boards I personally warranted, I can't remember a single one that wasn't
replaced immediately. So, my guess is that it was probably an issue with
Mistral not North Sports. I would like to add that I have no formal
affiliation with North Sports... actually, I've been a tech rep for
Adventure Sports since they started distributing Neilpryde in '92 ... just
my .02.
-Skip
Karina & Dan
-Dan
"Skip Dennis" <den...@windsurfingclassifieds.com> wrote in message
news:5c1Y4.7886$Ym2.1...@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net...
JR
>"colonwk" wrote > This is a very true, yet very pathetic story about Mistral's customer
>> service practices.
> [snip]
>Great post. Calm, rational, and, we presume, factual. But sadly, no
>surprise. As you know, Mistral quality and service [WHAT ELSE IS THERE,
>MISTRAL? IT SURE AIN'T PRICES!] have received much bad press here, and
>PR is probably our second best recourse for arrogant, shoddy business
>practices.
About Northsports:
Just to keep the posting as fair and balanced as possible, I'd like to mention
my story. I bought a Fanatic before Fanatic was taken over by Mistral. Recently
the poor board failed, and when contacted by my local dealer, Northsports
(now representing Fanatic) OK'd a replacement fairly quickly (within a few days)
and we worked things out. I felt their warranty service was pretty good: not
"We'll go out of our way to kiss your botty because our product failed on you"
good, but at least "We'll try to treat you fairly and get you back on the
water" good. Having a local shop to help take care of the details helped. Being
allowed to use their demo boards for free while I waited for a replacement was
great.
>I took a gamble on a Flow. It was unused but half price (a warranty
>replacement long since replaced by the buyer), it will not see a lot of use,
>and I've beefed up its deck. If it fails prematurely, you'll hear about it...
>Mike \m/
About Mistrals:
One of the other local sailors bought a new Flow; the deck failed in the
area between the footstraps after a few months of use. He took it to our local
dealer, and they arranged for a replacement fairly quickly.
Some time before that, I bought an XLE (which seems to be the Flow's older
brother) quite cheaply after the previous owner tore the finbox loose. I then
rebuilt the tail area of the board. I wasn't too impressed with the way the
board was constructed; it appears to be made with a lot of chopped-strand
fiberglass, with several sandwich-construction strips (high-density foam and
carbon), each around 5 cm or so wide, running the length of the board to add
stiffness. [Note: This is just what I believe I saw while rebuilding the
board, not definitive or expert information.] I didn't see as much cloth as I
would have hoped. Nevertheless, in the year or so since I fixed the board I
have sailed it hard and crashed it often and hard with no visible damage.
But it isn't very light anymore. Next time I'll probably buy a sandwich board,
and I'll give serious consideration to locally made custom boards for sure.
And if my new Vision 150 falls apart, everyone will hear about that too.
Note to Will:
If you're reading this, just thought I'd clarify that my wisecrack about board
squashing was meant entirely in jest. Sorry if it seemed otherwise. Your
description of my poor Bee's last air time was quite amusing...although I'm
glad not to have been there; I'd prefer to watch somebody else's board get
squashed...
JR
dano
one time I was showing off the damage ( split deck under footstraps )to
by 94 vivace after hitting a mystery object at full speed and this
snotty smug dickhead guy put his nose in the air and said "that
wouldn't of happened to a MISTRAL" what a dick...
I'm distressed to here mistral bought out fanatic. I have one of last
years bees and I hope it stays together! Why did they get rid of the
power trim finbox? You REALLY need it if you occationally use weed
fins...I think I'll just go back to bic next...
Wolfgang Soergel
>
>
> Anybody know the unit cost for boards made at the Cobra plant where they
> use those cheap molds and have poor quality control vs when they were
> made in Europe using those very expensive metal molds and better quality
> control???
top-coated full-sandwich boards. Afaik AHD (the only bigger sanwich
production in Europe i'm aware of) also uses templates laminated around
the prototype board. Metal molds cost around $50000 a piece, dictating
that quite a lot of boards have to be sold to make it work out. For this
reason alone it's unlikely in these days of frequent model changes and
huge line-ups (something desirable imho) to see expensive molds or other
expensive tooling used.
With respect to cost @cobra: I don't have exact mumbers but i know that
it widely depends on the desired layup (can be specified by customer),
number of boards ordered and so on. Additional cost can come from having
quality control of your own on site.
> I wonder if at the Cobra plant they ever have any rejects. Is seems like
> they must be puttying and painting everything and shipping it out?
>
At least it seems they make wide use of the fact that labor is basically
free there.
--
Wolfgang