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A better way to separate stuck 2 pc masts
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sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 1, 2006, 12:15:44 PM4/1/06
to
Hi All,
I guess I finally ran into the "stuck mast from hell", a little 370 No
Limitz wave RDM.
When I couldn't get it apart by my normal methods, that have worked on
virtually every mast I've tried to get apart before, I had to take
"stuck 2 pc mast separation" to the next level.
Took a bit of looking, but I found (in the plumbing section at Ace
Hardware and Home Depot) the necessary plastic plumbing fittings and
plastic tubing.
I found that 1 1/2" ID plastic tubing fit OD of the bottom of mast
pretty well. I found a plastic 1 3/8 to 1/14" plastic reducer that had
the right OD (about 1.5") and a 1 1/4" pipe cap and nipple to plug it
solidly.
This is put on the base of the mast with a couple of hose clamps.
Then on the tip end, I found another plastic pipe bushing that was
aprox. the same size as the OD of the mast tip. Another piece of
tubing (in this case 1/1/8' and a couple of hose clamps to seal it up.
To the tip end I attached a garden hose fitting.
Hooked it up to a garden hose and voila! the inside of the mast
"pressurized" and water came squirting out the stuck joint.
Only this mast had been "twisted" (trying to get it apart) by
several really big guys, so it still didn't want to come apart.
Small trainer booms on rubber skinny adapters on the top of the mast,
and one small HPL trainer boom on a skinny adapter on the bottom section.
It took a couple of minutes of gently (no real force here) working the
lower section (relative to the upper section) and the mast just came
apart with only Hatteras Island city water pressure.
No damage to the ferrule (which was total locked before).
So, bring me your stuck 2 pc masts and I'll get them apart.
But please, bring them BEFORE you get 3 brawny guys on each end
trying to "twist" the joint apart. That just locks things together
to a degree that takes extreme methods to get apart.
My future plan is to build a slightly different plumbing arrangement
that puts the water pressure equally into both ends of the mast so the
internal plugs won't be displaced as much. One "y" valve, or a plastic
"T" in the middle and the plugs (except for a lower base plug which
would need to be pulled out or punched through) should stay in place.
I think this method will get most stuck masts apart without the use
of any twisting with booms, but as I said, this mast had completely
been given up on by one of the biggest guys I know.
When I get the "Version 2" rig together (for SDM's) I'll try to take a
photo and post it somewhere. I'll also be carrying this rig in the truck
or trailer, so if you come to one of the Sailworks/Starboard "A Taste of
Windsurfing" or Demo events this year (at a venue with a city water
faucet) we can probably get your stuck masts apart very easily.
Hope this helps,
I guess I finally ran into the "stuck mast from hell", a little 370 No
Limitz wave RDM.
When I couldn't get it apart by my normal methods, that have worked on
virtually every mast I've tried to get apart before, I had to take
"stuck 2 pc mast separation" to the next level.
Took a bit of looking, but I found (in the plumbing section at Ace
Hardware and Home Depot) the necessary plastic plumbing fittings and
plastic tubing.
I found that 1 1/2" ID plastic tubing fit OD of the bottom of mast
pretty well. I found a plastic 1 3/8 to 1/14" plastic reducer that had
the right OD (about 1.5") and a 1 1/4" pipe cap and nipple to plug it
solidly.
This is put on the base of the mast with a couple of hose clamps.
Then on the tip end, I found another plastic pipe bushing that was
aprox. the same size as the OD of the mast tip. Another piece of
tubing (in this case 1/1/8' and a couple of hose clamps to seal it up.
To the tip end I attached a garden hose fitting.
Hooked it up to a garden hose and voila! the inside of the mast
"pressurized" and water came squirting out the stuck joint.
Only this mast had been "twisted" (trying to get it apart) by
several really big guys, so it still didn't want to come apart.
Small trainer booms on rubber skinny adapters on the top of the mast,
and one small HPL trainer boom on a skinny adapter on the bottom section.
It took a couple of minutes of gently (no real force here) working the
lower section (relative to the upper section) and the mast just came
apart with only Hatteras Island city water pressure.
No damage to the ferrule (which was total locked before).
So, bring me your stuck 2 pc masts and I'll get them apart.
But please, bring them BEFORE you get 3 brawny guys on each end
trying to "twist" the joint apart. That just locks things together
to a degree that takes extreme methods to get apart.
My future plan is to build a slightly different plumbing arrangement
that puts the water pressure equally into both ends of the mast so the
internal plugs won't be displaced as much. One "y" valve, or a plastic
"T" in the middle and the plugs (except for a lower base plug which
would need to be pulled out or punched through) should stay in place.
I think this method will get most stuck masts apart without the use
of any twisting with booms, but as I said, this mast had completely
been given up on by one of the biggest guys I know.
When I get the "Version 2" rig together (for SDM's) I'll try to take a
photo and post it somewhere. I'll also be carrying this rig in the truck
or trailer, so if you come to one of the Sailworks/Starboard "A Taste of
Windsurfing" or Demo events this year (at a venue with a city water
faucet) we can probably get your stuck masts apart very easily.
Hope this helps,
LeeD
Apr 1, 2006, 12:45:15 PM4/1/06
to
Only problem is, my masts are all different models from different
companies, so I'll need about 10 different fittings to fit them all.....
companies, so I'll need about 10 different fittings to fit them all.....
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 1, 2006, 5:55:41 PM4/1/06
to
Hi Dolman,
Ummmm... plastic fittings, and short 3" long pieces bits of plastic
tubing are really quite cheap. Hose clamps will take up almost 1/8"
difference in diameter.
Try it, it works, and if you use electrical tape on the joint all the
time, you won't need anything to separate your 2 pc masts as they will
never get stuck due to sand/grit.
After getting a stuck mast apart, smooth the ferrule surfaces with
320-400 grit wet abrasive cloth, put a little soap on it, tape it every
time you use it and stuck masts become a thing of the past.
Most SDM masts are about the same size on the bottom. So one piece of
tubing and one plastic bushing should do just about all SDM bases.
I agree that the tips, and the diameters of RDM vary quite a bit, but
Most of us don't have 10 different brands of masts, so about 4 or 5
appropriately sized plastic pipe bushings, and 3" sections of plastic
tubing or rubber radiator hose and you could cover a huge range.
I spent <$10 for the stuff to get the No Limitz apart.
R
Ummmm... plastic fittings, and short 3" long pieces bits of plastic
tubing are really quite cheap. Hose clamps will take up almost 1/8"
difference in diameter.
Try it, it works, and if you use electrical tape on the joint all the
time, you won't need anything to separate your 2 pc masts as they will
never get stuck due to sand/grit.
After getting a stuck mast apart, smooth the ferrule surfaces with
320-400 grit wet abrasive cloth, put a little soap on it, tape it every
time you use it and stuck masts become a thing of the past.
Most SDM masts are about the same size on the bottom. So one piece of
tubing and one plastic bushing should do just about all SDM bases.
I agree that the tips, and the diameters of RDM vary quite a bit, but
Most of us don't have 10 different brands of masts, so about 4 or 5
appropriately sized plastic pipe bushings, and 3" sections of plastic
tubing or rubber radiator hose and you could cover a huge range.
I spent <$10 for the stuff to get the No Limitz apart.
R
sm...@fit.edu
Apr 1, 2006, 6:24:14 PM4/1/06
to
I'm guessing one major set-back would be if you had plugs in your
mast....
mast....
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 1, 2006, 7:57:11 PM4/1/06
to
Hi smyer,
Initially, I removed the top plug from the mast. That's easy with a pair
of vice grips and it does not damage the plug as most of them are rubber.
When you again have a 2 pc mast, it's easy to tap the top plug back in.
If you want a better seal, get some Hylomar or Permatex Blue sealer and
put a dab in the end of the mast and another dab on the OD of the plug.
It will seal completely.
Internal plugs in the top section of a mast is something I've never
seen, but if there was a plug above the ferrule in the top section, the
pressure inside the mast would force the plug down to the top of the
ferrule where it would no longer seal.
The top plug in the bottom section (at the top of the ferrule) is a good
thing as this may seal up the bottom section of the mast for you.
The only plug that could cause a problem (with a pressure rig that puts
the water in at both ends of the mast would be a plug up inside the
base. If you have one of these, in your base section, then putting equal
pressure on both ends of the mast as the same time wouldn't work so well
as it would force the lower plug in the bottom section up further into
the mast until the water bursts through. That's why I suggested taking
something sharp and poking a hole in the lower plug, to let the pressure
through. You can replace the lower plug if you like, but a majority of
masts no longer use these plugs so the mast can be stored with the top
section inside the bottom section.
On the No Limitz 370 mast I just got apart, I initially only took the
top plug out of the tip section of the mast.
The water pressure displaced the small plug at the top of the base
section, so I had water coming out the bottom end of the base section
and no internal pressure in the mast.
So, I got a bigger piece of tubing and a plug for the bottom section.
That's what finally worked, along with jiggling the top and bottom
sections rotationally a little.
The plugs are inexpensive and can be fairly easily replaced, so to me
anyway, dislodging the plugs is no big deal compared to having a 2 pc
mast that's now become a 1 pc mast an cannot be stored, or carried easily.
If you pressurize both ends of the mast (in masts without a lower plug
in the bottom section) the pressure will build up evenly and the plugs
will stay where they are. Perhaps, in some cases it will dislodge the
plug at the top of the bottom section slightly, but the plug will be
undamaged and can be tapped back into place, resealing the bottom
section of the mast from the top section.
I think in most cases, before you get 6 guys trying to twist the grit
into the composite structure of the mast, the internal water pressure
and flow out around the male part of the ferrule will easily wash out
the grit and the mast will simply slide apart with no damage.
Hope this helps,
Initially, I removed the top plug from the mast. That's easy with a pair
of vice grips and it does not damage the plug as most of them are rubber.
When you again have a 2 pc mast, it's easy to tap the top plug back in.
If you want a better seal, get some Hylomar or Permatex Blue sealer and
put a dab in the end of the mast and another dab on the OD of the plug.
It will seal completely.
Internal plugs in the top section of a mast is something I've never
seen, but if there was a plug above the ferrule in the top section, the
pressure inside the mast would force the plug down to the top of the
ferrule where it would no longer seal.
The top plug in the bottom section (at the top of the ferrule) is a good
thing as this may seal up the bottom section of the mast for you.
The only plug that could cause a problem (with a pressure rig that puts
the water in at both ends of the mast would be a plug up inside the
base. If you have one of these, in your base section, then putting equal
pressure on both ends of the mast as the same time wouldn't work so well
as it would force the lower plug in the bottom section up further into
the mast until the water bursts through. That's why I suggested taking
something sharp and poking a hole in the lower plug, to let the pressure
through. You can replace the lower plug if you like, but a majority of
masts no longer use these plugs so the mast can be stored with the top
section inside the bottom section.
On the No Limitz 370 mast I just got apart, I initially only took the
top plug out of the tip section of the mast.
The water pressure displaced the small plug at the top of the base
section, so I had water coming out the bottom end of the base section
and no internal pressure in the mast.
So, I got a bigger piece of tubing and a plug for the bottom section.
That's what finally worked, along with jiggling the top and bottom
sections rotationally a little.
The plugs are inexpensive and can be fairly easily replaced, so to me
anyway, dislodging the plugs is no big deal compared to having a 2 pc
mast that's now become a 1 pc mast an cannot be stored, or carried easily.
If you pressurize both ends of the mast (in masts without a lower plug
in the bottom section) the pressure will build up evenly and the plugs
will stay where they are. Perhaps, in some cases it will dislodge the
plug at the top of the bottom section slightly, but the plug will be
undamaged and can be tapped back into place, resealing the bottom
section of the mast from the top section.
I think in most cases, before you get 6 guys trying to twist the grit
into the composite structure of the mast, the internal water pressure
and flow out around the male part of the ferrule will easily wash out
the grit and the mast will simply slide apart with no damage.
Hope this helps,
(PeteCresswell)
Apr 1, 2006, 8:04:58 PM4/1/06
to
Per sailquik (Roger Jackson):
>I spent <$10 for the stuff to get the No Limitz apart.
>I spent <$10 for the stuff to get the No Limitz apart.
I find it cheaper to just tell the three-four guys helping to get it apart that
it's a test of their manhood.
--
PeteCresswell
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 1, 2006, 8:21:45 PM4/1/06
to
Hi Pete,
And then you risk losing the mast as the ferrule twists out of the
bottom section.
Or you risk twisting the grit into the composite and ruining the fit of
the ferrule in the bore of the upper section of the mast. Then you have
mast damage.
I'm suggesting "remedies" that do no damage whatsoever to the mast, and
give you back your 2 piece mast with as much of the original structure
and integrity as possible.
Twisting them, tugging them apart with cars and ropes, crushing them
with strap wrenches and several other "remedies" I've heard of all have
a huge potential to ruin your mast completely, or at least compromise
the integrity of the original design.
If you are still sailing in Lakes Bay mostly, breaking a mast is
normally not a "life threatening" situation as you can probably walk
most of the way back with only an occasional swim across the deeper boat
channels.
If, on the other hand, you sail in a deep water location and offshore,
compromising the integrity of your mast may be life threatening.
Hope this helps,
And then you risk losing the mast as the ferrule twists out of the
bottom section.
Or you risk twisting the grit into the composite and ruining the fit of
the ferrule in the bore of the upper section of the mast. Then you have
mast damage.
I'm suggesting "remedies" that do no damage whatsoever to the mast, and
give you back your 2 piece mast with as much of the original structure
and integrity as possible.
Twisting them, tugging them apart with cars and ropes, crushing them
with strap wrenches and several other "remedies" I've heard of all have
a huge potential to ruin your mast completely, or at least compromise
the integrity of the original design.
If you are still sailing in Lakes Bay mostly, breaking a mast is
normally not a "life threatening" situation as you can probably walk
most of the way back with only an occasional swim across the deeper boat
channels.
If, on the other hand, you sail in a deep water location and offshore,
compromising the integrity of your mast may be life threatening.
Hope this helps,
(PeteCresswell)
Apr 1, 2006, 8:47:45 PM4/1/06
to
Per sailquik (Roger Jackson):
>If, on the other hand, you sail in a deep water location and offshore,
>compromising the integrity of your mast may be life threatening.
>Hope this helps,
>If, on the other hand, you sail in a deep water location and offshore,
>compromising the integrity of your mast may be life threatening.
>Hope this helps,
I was just trying to be cute.... I guess it didn't come out so well...
--
PeteCresswell
LeeD
Apr 2, 2006, 12:26:40 AM4/2/06
to
Yeah, you're right.
But I use mostly old stuff, from AmproBlackCarbonCombis to FibGreens,
to DyanamicSpeedAlums, to Fib red and blues, PX Ultras to RDMS,
NoLimitzRDMs, to SpaceTechXC to modern reduced Norths to XLDyn, and
don't forget SerfiacGolds and even a couple
GaastraYellowWaveTwoPiece'ers.
Yes, and the old sails to match too.....
But I use mostly old stuff, from AmproBlackCarbonCombis to FibGreens,
to DyanamicSpeedAlums, to Fib red and blues, PX Ultras to RDMS,
NoLimitzRDMs, to SpaceTechXC to modern reduced Norths to XLDyn, and
don't forget SerfiacGolds and even a couple
GaastraYellowWaveTwoPiece'ers.
Yes, and the old sails to match too.....
Tsunami
Apr 2, 2006, 11:14:16 AM4/2/06
to
"sailquik (Roger Jackson)" <sail...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4zyXf.12520$sL2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Easiest I've found is to flush the mast out with fresh water after every
session. No sand = no stick.
LeeD
Apr 2, 2006, 1:58:19 PM4/2/06
to
OMG !!
Maintainance ??
Windsurfing 25 odd years, well over 100 each, I've had a total of
about 3 stuck masts, all of which twisted off eventually. Well over
300 rigging on sandy beaches.
I have two stuck two piece'ers, but they weren't mine when they got
stuck and I got them after they'd been stuck for well over 5 years.
After trying most everything, still stuck!!
Maintainance ??
Windsurfing 25 odd years, well over 100 each, I've had a total of
about 3 stuck masts, all of which twisted off eventually. Well over
300 rigging on sandy beaches.
I have two stuck two piece'ers, but they weren't mine when they got
stuck and I got them after they'd been stuck for well over 5 years.
After trying most everything, still stuck!!
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 2, 2006, 2:45:18 PM4/2/06
to
Hi Dolman.
Try the water pressure trick. Might turn those long term 1 piece's back
into 2 piece's.
What ya got to lose?
At worst it might dislodge a plug or 2.
Try the water pressure trick. Might turn those long term 1 piece's back
into 2 piece's.
What ya got to lose?
At worst it might dislodge a plug or 2.
LeeD
Apr 2, 2006, 2:53:40 PM4/2/06
to
Thanks Roger ....
Both have been wrestled with by more than 8 big guys, have been
filled with hot water and left standing, have been tip stuck and
shaken, and not a peep of sound or sign of loosening.
Of course 3 booms each end twisted, hammer struck (wooden padded),
ferrule cooled (alum ferrule in PX), and tied to waterhydrants and
pulled....
Both have been wrestled with by more than 8 big guys, have been
filled with hot water and left standing, have been tip stuck and
shaken, and not a peep of sound or sign of loosening.
Of course 3 booms each end twisted, hammer struck (wooden padded),
ferrule cooled (alum ferrule in PX), and tied to waterhydrants and
pulled....
Brian Sangeorzan
Apr 2, 2006, 11:36:49 PM4/2/06
to
Hi Roger,
I've been thinking of doing exactly the same thing on a friends stuck mast!
Great to know that you tried it and it works. Thanks.
Brian
I've been thinking of doing exactly the same thing on a friends stuck mast!
Great to know that you tried it and it works. Thanks.
Brian
"sailquik (Roger Jackson)" <sail...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4zyXf.12520$sL2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
kurt
Apr 2, 2006, 11:42:34 PM4/2/06
to
Roger, I've always wondered if there was some way to backflush the
ferrule, and I think you figured it out.
No more soapy water shakeups, no more beefin'. All ya need is a little
water flow in the right direction....
pyro
Apr 3, 2006, 10:02:29 AM4/3/06
to
I have only had one stuck mast that I have had to go to extremes with.
It was stuck for again something like 5 years prior to me getting it. I
ended up putting it up against a work bench and essentially standing on
it in the middle to bend the mast. After putting a lot of pressure on
it, I was able to just about slip the smallest feeler gauge I could
find in between the two pieces. I then proceded to bend the mast back
and forth inserting more and more feeler gauges in. This process took a
couple hours, and I had to start getting creative when the mast was
seperated by over an inch and still wouldn't budge.
It was stuck for again something like 5 years prior to me getting it. I
ended up putting it up against a work bench and essentially standing on
it in the middle to bend the mast. After putting a lot of pressure on
it, I was able to just about slip the smallest feeler gauge I could
find in between the two pieces. I then proceded to bend the mast back
and forth inserting more and more feeler gauges in. This process took a
couple hours, and I had to start getting creative when the mast was
seperated by over an inch and still wouldn't budge.
Suprisingly this only put a few dings in the mast which lightly sanding
took right out. I can't even tell it was forced.
Zephyr
Apr 3, 2006, 11:19:18 AM4/3/06
to
Roger,
Excellent tip, thanks for sharing!
Dave
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Apr 3, 2006, 3:16:38 PM4/3/06
to
Hi Kurt,
Yes, the "flow in right direction" is a given with this method as the
internal pressure ensures that any "leakage" (which is a good thing
here) is out from the top of the ferrule, whether the ferrule is on the
top of the base or in the bottom of the top section).
The "flushing" action will tend to move most sand and grit right out of
the ferrule.
But the real "magic" here is the internal pressure (if the top of the
bottom section has a substantial plug in it) as this simply pushes the
top section off the bottom section with the 40-60 PSI pressure.
The pressure is contained within the mast completely, which builds a
pressure equal to the water pressure (in PSI) times the number of square
inches the top plug in the bottom section has.
If you "pressurize" from both ends equally, then you get the same
effect, but the plugs should remain in place a lot better.
If simply "flushing the joint" and using the internal pressure to push
the 2 sections apart doesn't work, then you can always, with the water
attached and flowing, work the joint up and down, tap it with a dead
blow hammer, or use the 2 or 3 booms trick, but the idea with the booms
is simply to "rock" the 2 sections rotationally relative to each other
so any grain of grit that's stuck between the 2 has a chance to "turn
over" or change orientation enough so the water can flush it out.
Hope this helps,
Yes, the "flow in right direction" is a given with this method as the
internal pressure ensures that any "leakage" (which is a good thing
here) is out from the top of the ferrule, whether the ferrule is on the
top of the base or in the bottom of the top section).
The "flushing" action will tend to move most sand and grit right out of
the ferrule.
But the real "magic" here is the internal pressure (if the top of the
bottom section has a substantial plug in it) as this simply pushes the
top section off the bottom section with the 40-60 PSI pressure.
The pressure is contained within the mast completely, which builds a
pressure equal to the water pressure (in PSI) times the number of square
inches the top plug in the bottom section has.
If you "pressurize" from both ends equally, then you get the same
effect, but the plugs should remain in place a lot better.
If simply "flushing the joint" and using the internal pressure to push
the 2 sections apart doesn't work, then you can always, with the water
attached and flowing, work the joint up and down, tap it with a dead
blow hammer, or use the 2 or 3 booms trick, but the idea with the booms
is simply to "rock" the 2 sections rotationally relative to each other
so any grain of grit that's stuck between the 2 has a chance to "turn
over" or change orientation enough so the water can flush it out.
Hope this helps,
(PeteCresswell)
Apr 24, 2006, 2:51:08 PM4/24/06
to
Per sailquik (Roger Jackson):
>I found that 1 1/2" ID plastic tubing fit OD of the bottom of mast
>pretty well. I found a plastic 1 3/8 to 1/14" plastic reducer that had
>the right OD (about 1.5") and a 1 1/4" pipe cap and nipple to plug it
>solidly.
>This is put on the base of the mast with a couple of hose clamps.
>I found that 1 1/2" ID plastic tubing fit OD of the bottom of mast
>pretty well. I found a plastic 1 3/8 to 1/14" plastic reducer that had
>the right OD (about 1.5") and a 1 1/4" pipe cap and nipple to plug it
>solidly.
>This is put on the base of the mast with a couple of hose clamps.
Roger, I got to use your technique and it worked.
Gave it a little twist that somebody might be interested in.
This was a PowerEx skinny. The entire bottom part has no plugs in it. The
plugs are in the top and the one at the joint is like a mushroom - overlapping
the wall of the mast so it cannot be forced into the mast section.
What I did was use a threaded schedule 40 adapter that threads onto a garden
hose and whose outside diameter just fits into the base of the mast. This
required a little female-female section of hose to join the adapter to a regular
garden hose. The adapter seems tb intended for joining on it's inside rather
than the outside - which is just a hair too small to fit snugly into a regular
schedule 40 connector. But that hair-too-small outside fits snugly inside the
PowerEx.
The part of the adapter that slides into the mast is fairly short - 2" max - so
there had to be a way to keep the water pressure from popping it out.
Not being able to visualize the hose clamps, I took an old downhaul line (6' of
Marlowe pre-stretch) and threw a clove hitch around the adapter, pulled it
tight, and then tied a square knot.
With the adapter stuffed into the mast, I then took the free ends of the line
and cris-crossed them around the mast maybe four or five times - so it looked a
little like a shoelace in a shoe.
I pulled that as tight as I could and wrapped the bitter ends with some
electrical tape just to stabilize everything. Then I wrapped the whole thing,
beginning with the first cris-cross with 2" mylar tape.
After applying water pressure, of course, the square knot slipped a little and
enough slack was induced to let the thing pop out. To cure that, I just tied
the two runs of Marlowe together where they diverged to make the first
cris-cross. This had the effect of tightening up the line enough so that the
plug stayed in place.
Bottom line, I may have cut down on the parts required:
-------------------------------------------------------
- The schedule 40 hose adapter
- An old downhaul line
- A foot or so of other line
- About 8" of old hose
- Two female hose fittings
-----------------------------------------------------
Plus, of course...
- Mylar tape
- Electrical tape
--
PeteCresswell
Bill (NC/ME)
Apr 24, 2006, 8:52:57 PM4/24/06
to
I watched the 'de-mastifier' work! It was amazing. ;) It didn't take
long to free a 2-piece mast that had been stuck for 2 years. Roger, you
need to patent it!
long to free a 2-piece mast that had been stuck for 2 years. Roger, you
need to patent it!
By the way, I just posted links to my pictures in another thread...
There a couple good ones of you teaching people to sail.
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