Will 77kgs. sink 103 litre board (impossible to surf without waterstart)?
Petteri Järvenpää
Hello, could you please tell me if I'm (77kgs) gonna sink my board (103
litres) if I'm on it. So, is it impossible try to surf with a board like
this without already learnt waterstart?
Thanks, waves for you who needs those.
Eric Warshower
Petteri,
Basically it comes down to this: one liter of air displaces one liter of
water. One liter of water weighs one kilo. A 103 liter board - its
weight, say 7kg., will stay afloat with up to 95 kg of weight on it. You
have the spare 13 kg. to use to uphaul the board. You can uphaul a 103L
board if you weigh 77Kg. but you need some balance. Of course their are
many other factor which come into place: do you sail in salt water, the
distribution of the volume, etc. I wouldn't recommend you learn to
windsurf in a 103L board but it WILL float and you CAN uphaul it.
Eric
--
\\|//
(o o)
--oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------------------------------
Vicom Puerto Rico
phone: (787) 728-5252
fax: (787) 728-2830
Chris
Eric Warshower wrote in message <34C787...@iwcc.com>...
>Petteri,
>
>Basically it comes down to this: one liter of air displaces one liter of
>water. One liter of water weighs one kilo. A 103 liter board - its
>weight, say 7kg., will stay afloat with up to 95 kg of weight on it. You
>have the spare 13 kg. to use to uphaul the board. You can uphaul a 103L
>board if you weigh 77Kg. but you need some balance. Of course their are
>many other factor which come into place: do you sail in salt water, the
>distribution of the volume, etc. I wouldn't recommend you learn to
>windsurf in a 103L board but it WILL float and you CAN uphaul it.
>
Eric - I think you meant to say the rig would weigh about 5 kg - that way
the figures add up. Uphauling in these conditions is all down to technique -
the more 'sinky' the board the better your technique needs to be.
I remember seeing a pic of Robby Naish calmly uphauling a sinker, submerged
to his knees with a huge wave looming behind him...
Chris
Charlie Escher
Petteri wrote:
I hope you have a very safe situation wherever you're going to "try" to
surf that board, because counting on uphauling it in high wind or big
chop could mean big trouble.How experienced a sailor are you, and on
what size board? What size sail are you gonna be using?An experienced
shortboarder who's your weight can likely uphaul a 100 l board with
minimal difficulty in fairly flat conditions and with a rationally sized
sail; I weigh 75 kg and can uphaul a 5.5 sail on my 100 l board without
getting my ankles too wet, I do it fairly often. I would guess a 6.5
would still be fine for uphauling on my board, but I don't own one so
I'm not sure.Anyway, do yourself a favor and learn how to waterstart
that board before you get into a situation where there is no other
option available.It's really not a difficult skill to learn, but it
opens up a whole new world to you.
good sailing,
______________________________________________
Charlie Escher // Beautiful Bingen, Washington
______________________________________________
2 Rad Inc. c/o Bruno Robida
Hey Guys,
we sponsor Martin Van Geenhoven, #1 Canadian Sailor. In waves he sails a
Fanatic Fly 253 1998 at 74ltrs. He's 185lbs (84kgs), with a 5.3m wave sail,
in 12 knots of wind, he uphauls all the time, I mean, in 12 knots, you have
to. Of course the board will sink to a certain level, at one point it stops
sinking and balance is the issue. As far as i'm concern, any board is
uphaulable, the sailor will determine which ones.
Bruno
2 Rad
Wolfgang Soergel
2 Rad Inc. c/o Bruno Robida wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
> we sponsor Martin Van Geenhoven, #1 Canadian Sailor. In waves he sails a
> Fanatic Fly 253 1998 at 74ltrs. He's 185lbs (84kgs), with a 5.3m wave sail,
> in 12 knots of wind, he uphauls all the time, I mean, in 12 knots, you have
> to. Of course the board will sink to a certain level, at one point it stops
> sinking and balance is the issue. As far as i'm concern, any board is
> uphaulable, the sailor will determine which ones.
Isn't Jason Prior also from Canada ? For sure a good wave sailor,
possibly
the best Canadian. Or did you just need a chance to plug F***tic ?-)
>
> > Hello, could you please tell me if I'm (77kgs) gonna sink my board (103
> > litres) if I'm on it. So, is it impossible try to surf with a board like
> > this without already learnt waterstart?
To give a more realistic answer: It will be possible to uphaul the
thing,
given not too much chop. The board won;t sink fully but it will still be
very
tippy. In any kind of chop or waves it can get scetchy. If you are stuck
with the
board, go to a place with hip-shoulder deep water and practice your
waterstarts
there, at least don;t go out in higher winds on any larger body of water
before you get the water start done. On the other hand, water starting
isn't
rocket science, it can be learnt in 2 windy weeks easily and once you
can do it,
103 liters are a nice alround size for 77 kg.
If you still can choose, you may want to consider a slightly larger
board.
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Soergel
Lehrstuhl fuer Nachrichtentechnik / phone: ++49-9131-857781
Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg / fax: ++49-9131-858849
Cauerstrasse 7 / email:
wsoe...@nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de
D-91058 Erlangen, GERMANY /
http://www.nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de/~wsoergel
NLW TFW NM
Whether the board CAN be uphauled is not the real issue; a full sinker CAN be
water started. The issue is that if there's often not enough wind to water
start, you should BE ON a bigger board (light-air, small-wave-surfsailing
notwithstanding). If you simply don't know HOW to water start, 1) you should
OWN another, bigger, board and 2) you will quickly LEARN to water start if you
spend much time on a 103-liter board.
Mike \m/
Never Leave Wind To Find Wind
MTVNewsGuy
Petteri Järvenpää wrote:
> Hello, could you please tell me if I'm (77kgs) gonna sink my board (103
> litres) if I'm on it. So, is it impossible try to surf with a board like
> this without already learnt waterstart?
>
It's possible, but it will be easier to learn to waterstart. Learn to
waterstart...it's not that hard!
Michael
US5613
KEV
Cris,
I sail a 270cm 90-95l (volume quoted by manufacturer) HYBRID no-nose
slalom board with a 6.6m Pryde VX3 sail and I weigh 72kg and I have
absolutely no hassles up hauling even though the board may tend to sink a
little bit.
Go for it you'll be alright
Scott, Canberra Australia.
Cris Pavloff wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:52:07 -0400, Eric Warshower <er...@iwcc.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Petteri,
> >
> >Basically it comes down to this: one liter of air displaces one liter of
> >water. One liter of water weighs one kilo. A 103 liter board - its
> >weight, say 7kg., will stay afloat with up to 95 kg of weight on it. You
> >have the spare 13 kg. to use to uphaul the board. You can uphaul a 103L
> >board if you weigh 77Kg. but you need some balance. Of course their are
> >many other factor which come into place: do you sail in salt water, the
> >distribution of the volume, etc. I wouldn't recommend you learn to
> >windsurf in a 103L board but it WILL float and you CAN uphaul it.
>
> You're forgetting the weight of all of the gear too. So you have your
> 103 L - 7 for the board - a whole bunch for the whole rig. With the
> sail wet, I really wonder if you will be able to uphaul it.
Capi Wever
Should not be a big problem.....
If you use light weight rigs, have medium good balance. I suppose you
will be uphauling in low winds, so wind will be no additional
complicating factor. So I conclude again: should be no problem at all.
Capi Wever
>Petteri,
>
>Basically it comes down to this: one liter of air displaces one liter of
>water. One liter of water weighs one kilo. A 103 liter board - its
>weight, say 7kg., will stay afloat with up to 95 kg of weight on it. You
>have the spare 13 kg. to use to uphaul the board. You can uphaul a 103L
>board if you weigh 77Kg. but you need some balance. Of course their are
>many other factor which come into place: do you sail in salt water, the
>distribution of the volume, etc. I wouldn't recommend you learn to
>windsurf in a 103L board but it WILL float and you CAN uphaul it.
>
Markus Huhtinen
Charlie Escher wrote:
> I hope you have a very safe situation wherever you're going to "try" to
> surf that board, because counting on uphauling it in high wind or big
> chop could mean big trouble.How experienced a sailor are you, and on
> what size board? What size sail are you gonna be using?An experienced
> shortboarder who's your weight can likely uphaul a 100 l board with
> minimal difficulty in fairly flat conditions and with a rationally sized
> sail;
Charlie is right. Please, be careful out there!
Even though uphauling is generally possible with very small boards,
chop, wind and exhaustion can lead into dangerous situations. Petteri
comes from Finland and our waters are not as warm as we would hope.
My first shortboard was 92 liters and I could not waterstart. You bet I
had to learn fast. I ran into pretty frustrating (and freezing)
situations every now and then. So do not repeat my mistake.
There is actually no advantage having too small a board once you are
learning the basics. Get a 120 l board, learn to waterstart and jibe.
Sail safe and get a smaller board after waterstarting is no more a
problem.
Markus Huhtinen
L-10
Joensuu, Finland
JBlumhorst
>> I hope you have a very safe situation wherever you're going to "try" to
>> surf that board, because counting on uphauling it in high wind or big
>> chop could mean big trouble.How experienced a sailor are you, and on
>> what size board? What size sail are you gonna be using?An experienced
>> shortboarder who's your weight can likely uphaul a 100 l board with
>> minimal difficulty in fairly flat conditions and with a rationally sized
>> sail;
Uphauling a full sinker is a skill every sailor should learn, in my opinion.
You have to have the right technique and enough skill to do it. I learned the
technique from the folks at ABK Sports. But I'd learn to waterstart first!
The technique is to point the board right into the wind before your uphaul,
stall the sail as you uphaul and as soon as it's out of the water, you
immediately drop your head below the boom with your butt sticking out. You
won't succeed if you do it like a long board. It's possible to get underway
even if the board sinks so the water is up to your knees. It's not that
difficult to learn to do -- much easier than a carved jibe which I still
haven't figured out!
I'd rather waterstart, but I've uphauled in 30 knots and chop on a sliver of a
board. I had to when my sail ripped out at the clew. (I have since sworn to
avoid sailing in storms - and buying sails that are too old!)
It's not likely that someone who can't waterstart has enough overall skill to
do it, so he'd be safer learning on a medium sized board.
Regards,
Judy
Master of the Wet Jibe ;)
Martin Farrimond
NLW TFW NM wrote:
>
> Whether the board CAN be uphauled is not the real issue; a full sinker CAN be
> water started. The issue is that if there's often not enough wind to water
> start, you should BE ON a bigger board (light-air, small-wave-surfsailing
> notwithstanding).
We're in aslightly fantasy world of ideals here! Can you honestly say
you never been out when the wind has dropped?
Obviously you should choose board & sail to suit conditions, but when
those conditions conspire to catch you out - as they all too often seem
to do round our coasts - it's good to be prepared: Either sail somewhere
safe, learn to uphaul that sinker (always difficult in swell/chop), or
learn light wind waterstarts. Both the latter will be time & effort well
spent.
If you simply don't know HOW to water start, 1) you should
> OWN another, bigger, board and 2) you will quickly LEARN to water start if you
> spend much time on a 103-liter board.
Right on!
Martin Farrimond - K62
--
*** Remove "NOSPAM" from my email address to reply. ***
Slalom
>You're forgetting the weight of all of the gear too. So you have your
>103 L - 7 for the board - a whole bunch for the whole rig. With the
>sail wet, I really wonder if you will be able to uphaul it.
I weight 75-76 kg and have a 103 liter board and a 4 cam sail. I can
uphaul it but it is a little tricky. Fortunately, I rarely have to do
it.
Slalom
NLW TFW NM
Martin responded to my
<<Whether the board CAN be uphauled is not the real issue; a full sinker CAN be
water started. The issue is that if there's often not enough wind to water
start, you should BE ON a bigger board.>>
with a perceptive <<We're in aslightly fantasy world of ideals here! Can you
honestly say you never been out when the wind has dropped? >>
Lemme say dis about dat:
1. I screwed up. Where I said "water started: I meant "uphauled"; A full sinker
CAN be uphauled.
2. Yup -- I've seen the wind drop. But my impression of the original post was
that the poster still preferred uphauling, was buying a near sinker as perhaps
his primary board, and intended to keep uphauling it.
Re:"it's good to be prepared: Either sail somewhere safe, learn to uphaul that
sinker (always difficult in swell/chop), or learn light wind waterstarts. Both
the latter will be time & effort well spent."
Some of my friends keep telling me that, but I have yet to encounter a
situation in which the ability to uphaul a sinker served me any purpose. If
there's not enough wind to water start the sail I'm on, I don't WANT to be
standing on a sinker. I much prefer napping in the water to 5-knot slogging,
and I do a LOT of lying -- even napping -- in the water in severe ripslog
conditons. I just see no purpose in slogging sinkers. Its ratio of results to
effort is way counterproductive. I've watched people exhaust themselves
slogging sinkers yet cover only a hundred meters in the process,while I hop up
refreshed after my little snoozes. No contest.
If I really MUST go somewhere in a severe lull -- a barge is coming or I've
become convinced the last gust of the day was 20 minutes ago -- I much prefer
swimming to max effort/min progess slogging on a sinker. Swimming is almost
relaxing, and can be done straight upwind in major lulls; the isometric hula is
quickly exhausting and few can slog a sinker upwind in barely enough wind to
balance. I've swum sinkers many miles; I've slogged (as in barely moving) them
less than a mile. I still like that ratio.
hfutures
>Some of my friends keep telling me that, but I have yet to encounter a
>situation in which the ability to uphaul a sinker served me any purpose. If
>there's not enough wind to water start the sail I'm on, I don't WANT to be
>standing on a sinker. I much prefer napping in the water to 5-knot slogging,
I agree. I can waterstart my sinker in less wind than I can sail it,
so there is no need to even think about uphauling. If it's too light
to waterstart, my only option is to start swimming.
What's the best way to swim in your sinker? The two techniques I've
tried are hooking my feet around the boom and swimming in freestyle,
and holding the nose of my board with one hand and sidestroking.
Luke
NLW TFW NM
Re:"What's the best way to swim in your sinker?"
I alternate between two pretty efficient methods on a small board, with a third
for boards up around 9-6/290 or bigger.
One that works with any size board is to lie on my back in the water, simply
drape my feet onto the nose, and back stroke. It's powerful and fast, and I can
do it for an hour or two. Its two problems are chop and rig balancing. If the
chop is too high I gag on it. Without a float vest any amount of chop would be
a real problem. The other problem is keeping the rig balanced on the board to
reduce water drag. I'm going to see if a piece of line will be effective in
tying the boom on the board very simply and quickly, and if so, keep a piece of
line extra handy just for that purpose. But unless I have a lot of distance to
cover, I just ignore sail drag and keep on strokin'. There's no hurry. And if a
gust rolls by I can quickly pop up into a plane or a faster slog.
My other technique is similar to yours. I lay the boom on the tail, hold the
board or mast or boom (whatever balances the whole setup in relation to the
wind and swimming direction) and side stroke. That's also a powerful, fast, yet
untiring stroke that I can do for hours (been there). A bunch of guys watching
me sidestroke a board straight upwind (it was blowing 3 with occasional brief
offshore gusts to 20+) swore I was leaving a wake. The progress in the gusts
was more than offset by the loss in the lulls.
If I expect the wind to resume, I just lie in the water and wait it out. I've
laid my feet over the board and drifted off to sleep a couple of times in our
80-degree (27C) lake as guys slogged their 8-x boards back and forth for 20
minutes in the near-freezing air. I'll never understand that. The wind will
wake me up, and I'm getting warmer, not colder. If the wind seems inconsistent
or untrustworthy, I usually sail upwind of my van (up-current in the Gorge) so
I can drift towards, rather than away from, my van. I once drifted a mile down
the Columbia, utterly relaxed through out a 20-30-minute lull, as dozens of
sailors struggled to hold their ground in front of their launch site. About the
time I reached the launch, the wind resumed. Guess who was rested and ready to
shred, and who was shot to hell.
If a board is big enough, and maybe even a daggerboard for stability, I'll lie
on the board on my back, head towards the nose, rig balanced on my toes-up
feet, and damn near plane (that's a big exaggeration, but it almost feels like
it) in a backstroke.
Surfers may have the balance and muscles to kneel on their windsurfer and
paddle forward. We mortals can't do that.
The next thing I plan to try is a 10-foot tow line, so I can get out in front
of the board and swim unencumbered. We'll see if the line tangles in my legs.
The biggest single factor in swimming it in to me is flotation. If I didn't
wear about 10 pounds of flotation, swimming it (or even just me) in would be a
horrible experience in any chop. I did that once in 2-3-foot Gorge chop WITH a
vest, and it was very tough to breathe. After I gagged quite a few times I had
a sailor watch me to be sure I was OK.
Slogging sucks. It's an emergency measure, not windsurfing, on small boards.
More power to the guys who can do it for 20 minutes at imperceptible speeds on
sinkers; I'm not one of them .... and don't want to be. If I wanted to slog,
I'd use the same size sails other guys my size are using.
lherd
Markus Huhtinen wrote in message <34CDFD...@huhtine.pp.fi>...
>Charlie Escher wrote:
>
>> I Dont know why everyones telling this guys hes gonna sink- he wont
As long as the volume is distributed right he wont have a problem,
I have a 101 litre board weigh 85 even though I am quite advanced now when I
got the board I could'nt waterstart and learnt to waterstart and carvegybe
and this board.- 100 littres not a problem just dont put on weight