Non-planing jibe on a longboard
mzaw...@cs.stevens.edu
Any tips on how to jibe on a old longboard (3.7m)?
I have no problem making a quick tack, however when jibing I find I
cannot both stand on the back of the board and lean the sail to the
front to keep the board turning. My arms are just too short for
that ;-). As a result the board turns way too slowly. It helps when I
put my weight on the rail opposite to the turn, but that's not enough.
I have to add I like to keep the mast foot all the way forward as this
gives me the most comfortable stance and lets me sail a good angle
upwind.
Should I move it backward before jibe? (I can adjust it on the fly,
it's a Fanatic Race Cat)
Thanks,
-marek
Bob T
down, you press on the opposite side of the board during a jibe than
when the centerboard is up!
Tom Whittemore
That will get some of the 370 cm out of the water for less resistance.
Use silicone spray in the mast track, (but not the board) to make it
work easier. Also make sure to reach back with the back hand on the
boom so you can get the sail to windward more for more help from the
wind to push the board around.
mzaw...@cs.stevens.edu
I actually found that this is more a matter of planing/non-planing,
no?
-marek
wind.sh@dow
Agreed, if I am not planing, my centerboard is definitely down. I've
tried it up on downwind legs in races and what little I might gain in
reduced drag is negated by the loss of balance.
I forgot your weight if I ever knew it and I've never sailed a Fanatic
Race Cat, but the technique you need is determined by your weight, the
board shape, board speed and water surface. What works when you are
moving pretty well won't work quite as well when you are barely
moving.
If you are barely moving, try moving back far enough to raise the
board's nose and use the sail to steer you around quickly. If you are
moving a little faster, don't go back so far and use the sail to turn.
I think variations on these techniques is the answer, good luck.
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
> Hi all,
>
> Any tips on how to jibe on a old longboard (3.7m)?
Hi Marek,
The guys here are giving you the right info, but it will work much
better if you "combine" what
Bob T, wind.sh@dow and Tom W. have suggested.
The position of the centerboard is critical here, as is the position
of the rig.
If the centerboard is all the way up and stowed inside the board, then
your Fanatic Cat will jibe pretty much
like a short board, i.e. you "bank" the board into the jibe by
applying pressure to the leeward rail and "tipping/railing"
your board so it "carves" into your jibe entry. This is normally for
faster jibes, but it also helps "steer" the board off the wind in
slow non-planing jibes.
If your centerboard is all the way down (don't try to jibe with the CB
half way down as the board will almost refuse to turn at all)
you have to "rail/tip" your board the other way so the upwind rail
sinks lower than the downwind rail. The board will turn very quickly
when you tip it to the outside of the turn so be ready to get dropped
in the water a few times until you learn to control how much you tip
your board (which will depend your speed to the greatest extent).
OK, that covers the "railing" and "footsteering" aspects of jibing a
long waterline longboard.
Now we will look at what you can do with the rig to "assist" your
board in turning into your jibe.
Pushing the rig forward will "drag" the nose of the board downwind
into your jibe, but in order to get the rig really forward, you have
to move forward which engages more of the long hard chine rail on the
leeward side. This prevents the board from turning to some degree. So
try this.
Instead of raking the rig forward, rake it upwind straight across the
centerline and let the weight of your rig balance on the mast foot.
The more you push the mast upwind and off the center line of your
board, the more the Center of Effort (CE) moves upwind and wants to
"rotate" your board into the jibe.
So, you don't need long arms and you don't need to move forward.
Bring the rig upwind (tipping the mast into the wind) and the CE well
out to the side will drive your board around quickly.
Last but not least, let's combine a couple of these thing into a
"sink" or "pivot" jibe, rather than a "flare" jibe.
If you stay well back on your board so (as Tom suggests) you get most
of the front of the board (and the forward part of those hard chine
rails ) up out of the water, the board will turn more quickly.
Combine this shorter rail/waterline length, with tipping the board to
the outside of the turn (center board all the way down here) and the
board will turn even faster. Combine this with raking your rig upwind
(out to the side) to drive the board around and you will turn almost
"on the spot".
And, no, it's not a matter of planing vs non-planing.
As Tom and wind.sh@dow suggest, the faster you are going, the less you
need to tip the board and rig to get the same effect.
If you are moving fast, you cannot do a pivot jibe as you can't get
the board to stop and pivot while it's planing or even going fast in
non-planing mode.
So, for barely moving, use lots of railing, lots of sinking the tail,
and lots rotational drive (rig off center upwind).
As your speed comes up, use less of all 3 of these factors.
At some point (still sub planing) you can just rail the board
(footsteering) and tip the rig as "stopping" to do a pivot jibe is no
longer very pratical.
At another point (maybe barely planing) you won't want to rail the
board to the outside as it's too hard to control, so you kick the CB
up and jibe using the leeward rail similar to a shortboard.
Hope this helps,
mzaw...@cs.stevens.edu
part of the bottom of the board is in the water and the speed itself.
When planning, one uses the shape of the bottom of the board to turn
during jibes, so the _inside_ rail must be pressed.
But in displacement mode, the entire bottom is in the water anyway and
it seems that pressing the _outside_ rail helps to turn.
Can somebody explain in more detail physics after that? (I'm always
curious to know how things work)
-marek
P.S. No wind scheduled for the weekend over here :-(
moref...@hotmail.com
planing conditions, if I enter the jibe planing and carve using the
inside rail, when the board slows and mushes down, I have to switch to
outside rail-down to keep the board turning smoothly - even with the
centreboard up. I've found this the same for any non-planing jibe
regardless of relative speed. Sorry, can't help with the physics!
cosmicharlie
Once you learn how to gybe one of these boards, go
back and learn how to gybe that old barge. In this day and age, you
are putting the horse before the cart starting out trying to do a long
board gybe.
wind.sh@dow
<blowb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Put the pig in a pen and buy a Starboard Go or something like it.
>Once you learn how to gybe one of these boards, go
>back and learn how to gybe that old barge. In this day and age, you
>are putting the horse before the cart starting out trying to do a long
>board gybe.
You've got it backwards as usual.
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
> On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:26:15 -0700, cosmicharlie
>
> >Put the pig in a pen and buy a Starboard Go or something like it.
> >Once you learn how to gybe one of these boards, go
> >back and learn how to gybe that old barge. In this day and age, you
> >are putting the horse before the cart starting out trying to do a long
> >board gybe.
>
> You've got it backwards as usual.
Nah, he's just in his cosmic attack mode cause he's unhappy with me
for deleting his
foolish posts on the *bd forums!
I guess Cosmic feels I'm supposed to like being called a "pedantic
dickhead".
But, your right, he's got it wrong again.
It really works much better if you let the horse pull the cart, but
I'm pretty sure that's not what
Chuckles meant to say.
Plus his other thread is full of foolishness as well.
I wish I knew what gear he actually has, because he know's absolutely
nothing about the different brands.
Yep, Chuckles, you'll be waiting for a long time for any reply from
Monty Spindler at Loft Sails about the
"Booster" you wanted to know about.
The "Booster" is a Gun Sails product! Sorry, but Monty doesn't design
for Gun Sails.
oneup...@gmail.com
>
> Put the pig in a pen and buy a Starboard Go or something like it.
> Once you learn how to gybe one of these boards, go
> back and learn how to gybe that old barge. In this day and age, you
> are putting the horse before the cart starting out trying to do a long
> board gybe.
"...putting the horse before the cart..."
Say, Brucie, where else does the horse belong?
Now, if it was the horse's ASS we were discussing (that's you, just in
case any of your aliases were unsure), we would be very confident that
it belongs at 19 Glory Lane.
sm...@fit.edu
progresses the sail is leaned more to the windward side of the board
than the front. The more aggressively it is leaned, the faster the
board will turn. You can stand on the tail of the board and will
still be able to lean the sail to windward. Doing so will give you a
very sharp turn. Dipping the windward rail also helps.
sm
On Aug 11, 8:55 am, mzawa...@cs.stevens.edu wrote: