Starboard Hypersonic - any good?
MituPo
Anyone sailed one of these? They are going cheap at a local (well, its
in the same country anyway) store and was wondering what they are like
as a free formula/ light airs cruising board. Sails to use on it 6.4+,
98Kg sailor. I would expect it to turn like a dog, but am curious what
its like to tack and sail off the plane, generally ease of use, fun
factor etc.
Cheers
Mike
Bill Kline
I suspect that they ar e2003 three models with the stock fins which were slow
and not good.
We were heavily involved in improving the fins for the line. Both we and
Starboard tested extensivley world wide. We had a variety of skill levels from
intermediate to world cup elite involved.
The design for the 2004 line is the Curtis SR-6b 34 and 42. The Sonic Line also
uses same
The aftermarket fins are a bit faster in Precison G-10 and CG-10 composites.
The CNC version of the Curtis SR-6b.
I mention to the fins because they are critical to get the most out of the
Hypersonic.
While at the Nitinat event in Canada last year, the distributor asked to try
the SR-6b. respondents testing there and at Canadian Nationals noted a rather
drastic change in ride and speed.
The 2004 line will ride a bit smoother in chop due to minor profile and rocker
changes.
But for 2003, fin changes really help. Make sure your rig is centered about
the same distance from the tail as it would be comfortably sailed freeride or
slalom.
Rig geometry and good fins are essential for you to get the most out of your
Hypersonic or other board.
best wishes ,,
Bill
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
LooseClu
I have a 105 I call the hyperdemonic. The board and I have a love hate
relationship (it hates me). In 23 years of sailing I don't think I've ever
gone as fast on any other board. My major problem is a short attention span
and that board demands full attention from the moment its up and screaming.
No time to watch the pelicans or ducks- gotta keep it flat or it can
initiate some spectacular crashes. I do like the board and it seems a good
replacement for my 281 Tiga Techno as my light wind board. I weight 140 Lbs
(63kg) soaking wet. Its a challenge and not the best board unless you like
going fast (and can stay focused). Big guys with big rigs and fast boards
still go rippen by me, but if I've got everything rigged right it fast
enough to scare me... which greatly increases my attention. When I want to
relax, I use the 112 L Bic e-Medium. Always flat water sailing w/ a lot of
up/down wind. Jibes ok for me- at least I seldom get wet on a blown
attempt. The only way I can tack it is to really lay the sail back and step
over the mast it doesn't like any weight in front of the mast for more than
a nanosecond.
Roy
"MituPo" <mit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce7f81b3.04042...@posting.google.com...
Juri Munkki
For best results, they require a certain amount of tuning. Also, it's
not always possible to have the most comfortable stance on the 2003
models. But...they are very rangy, quite fast and just blast upwind
when properly powered up. Jibing with a small sail can be a lot of fun,
but it gets tricky with big sails. Then again, big sails are always a
bit tricky to jibe, as you tend to get backwinded because you are
going downwind faster than the wind.
For a 98kg sailor, the 105 is a sinker... Definitely not a non-planing
or tacking board for your weight. The 125 on the other hand could work
in a wider range of conditions.
The fun factor depends on how you define fun. If you like fast cruising
and you don't mind the occasionally tuning puzzle (the board will simply
suddenly throw you off, if you get it wrong), it could be the thing for
you.
It certainly was the thing for me in 2003. The 2004 models seems slightly
easier and feels more like a traditional slalom board, but still has all
the benefits, as far as I can tell after having sailed it a few times.
The 2003 models are probably going cheap, because there are so many of
them. Starboard says that it was their most sold board model for 2003
and I think quite a few of those users loved theirs so much that they
wanted to invest on the 2004 generation.
Of course there are those who couldn't care less about tuning the setup
to perfection and want something that works OK no matter how you set it
up. Some of those people are probably also selling their boards.
I have over-simplified the choice to this: do you like cambered race
sails, but you prefer mid-range (6-8 sqm) over big sails? If you do,
the Hypersonic is the board for you. It'll take anything from a 5.0
to 10.0, if need be.
One excellent point about buying a 2003 model now is that you get to
try it and if you don't like it, you'll be able to sell it at about
the same price you paid for it. They are not dogs, so there is definitely
a market for them despite the new models. If you get a 2004 model, you'll
probably lose a bit more if you decide you don't like it and sell it used.
Some of the racers here got their Hypersonics for slalom racing, but
they mostly do formula, so they couldn't put enough effort into figuring
out how to use the boards and are now getting 2004 Sonics etc. instead.
The best target group here has been advanced freeriders & freeracers.
Hypersonics will work great for drag racing and long distance slalom.
Once you have tried a board this short, you probably don't want anything
longer than 240 cm. My 261 cm freeride seemed absolutely silly with its
long pointy nose that was doing absolutely nothing useful...
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.
Peter
> them. Starboard says that it was their most sold board model for 2003
> and I think quite a few of those users loved theirs so much that they
> wanted to invest on the 2004 generation.
Starboard defines "sales" as what gets sold to retailers, not customers. My
guess is that retailers have tons of 2003 models lying around and are
selling them cheap... I know one shop that has like 50 Hypersonics in
overstock.
Peter
Frank Weston
rather have something else.....which is apparently why there are lots of
them out there for sale cheap.
What I like:
It's short and fits in the bed of my truck easily.
It has a wide range, good for about 6.0 to about 9.0.
It goes upwind nicely when powered.
What I don't like:
It's quirky and hard to get into a groove. It's fast, but not as fast as a
good slalom board.
It gybes easily, but gybes like a truck. Lots of sail steering is usually
required, and a little mis-step can break the fin loose.
It's funny looking and ugly.
Mostly, I just don't find this board as much fun to sail as a good slalom
board. I miss the feeling of ripping effortlessly through a gybe and of
being comfortably locked in on a reach while blasting at top speed. As
someone else said, this board demands constant attention.......I already
have a wife.
Frank Weston
"MituPo" <mit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce7f81b3.04042...@posting.google.com...
The Dog
> overstock.
>
> Peter
OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark... On their year end statement.
We've got one. I think it's gonna end up being a demo queen (in my
trailer) till we find someone who likes weird stuff.
Dog
--
http://www.ntwr.org
http://www.mariner-sails.com
http://www.thedoghouse.net
Mark
have a have a love/hate relationship with. I definitely do with my 105.
It will slaughter anything except a formula board going upwind, but coming
back down wind again is just downright scary, and if you don't have the
tuning perfect and full concentration then you will get tossed. Good news
is that you won't bust the nose off when you get thrown - there isn't one.
In terms of speed it isn't as fast as a dialed in slalom board, but it is
consistently always fast. So long as there is enough wind to get it planing then
you will go fast.
With a larger fin in it it takes a massive lull to knock you off the
plane, and even in a large hole a few pumps is all you need to keep it
planing until you hit the next gust.
At 70kg the 105 is not a board that I like slogging. Uphauling is easy
enough, but in non-planing conditions the area that you can safely stand
without sinking the nose or rounding up is very small. Even when slogging
this thing needs full concentration...
Definitely requires stable sails. The last thing you want to be doing is
fighting the rig.
All in all I enjoy sailing mine most of the time, but as others have already said, I don't
think I would buy another one - you never really feel safe on a hyper :) .
slalomguy
you can go upwind on a conventional slalom board
it does not slog well so its no good in up and down conditions
please someone tell me what this boards niche is.
sorry to be so negative but I dont get it
its a pretty wide board so it needs a largeish fin.so right there in slalom
conditions it cant go fast
"Mark" <bug...@nastyspam.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.01...@nastyspam.com...
jeff feehan
racing. i sailed a hypersonic one day, and had a blast.
i think the thinking behind the board is this: although the top speed
of the hypersonic may be a little less than that of a conventional board,
it might have a higher average speed around a slalom course - particularly
as the wind gets variable.
additionally, the ability of the hyper to carry its speed on higher and lower
angles than a conventional board might give it tactical advantages over a
conventional board - for example, it would probably be pretty hard for a
conventional board to pass a hyper to weather.
jeff feehan
Craig (gsogh) Goudie
me to believe it might actually have the MFG stated sail range. It's a 1 board
quiver
for lake sailors.
I had originally been interested in the 125 ltr version, but I may not be
sailing as
much as planned this season, and most of the comments here have lead me to
believe
I'd rather have a formula board. The current price of the 03s is darned
tempting though.
-Craig
slalomguy wrote:
--
Craig (Go Short or Go Home!) Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
RRD 298, Starboard 272 and Cross M 8'2" with
Sailworks/Naish Sails and Rec Composites Fins
Sailing the Gorge on my: 9'1" RRD Freeride,
8'3" Logosz Squish, 8'0" Hitech IBM with
Sailworks/Northwave Sails and Curtis Fins
Juri Munkki
>you can go upwind on a conventional slalom board
Yes, and you can go upwind on a wave board. Some people tell me that
they can go upwind on formula boards, so where's the difference? I
think you'll agree that there are differences among boards.
>it does not slog well so its no good in up and down conditions
Yet it planes through lulls better than most boards. That means you
have more range from one sail. Who cares if it's 20% slower than
a narrow board when slogging, if the point is to be planing as much
as possible.
>sorry to be so negative but I dont get it
Don't worry. You are not alone in the world. New things are sometimes
hard to grasp.
>its a pretty wide board so it needs a largeish fin.so right there in slalom
>conditions it cant go fast
Wide board = big fin? Actually...no.
I found that the best fin for 5.8 and 6.8 on last year's HS105 and this
year's HS96 is a 30 cm Deboichet slalom fin. That fin is tiny compared
to the width of the board, but with it, the board planes early, points high,
goes fast, feels very loose and doesn't spin out.
The fastest speeds on Hypersonics have been done with fins about 26 cm
in length. I don't have a fin that small to try, but given how well a
30 cm fin works, I don't have any difficulty in believing it.
>please someone tell me what this boards niche is.
>begs the question why would anyone buy one?
I think the happiest users have been advanced freeriders, who like the
idea of having just one board that can handle sails from 5.0 to 10.0
(or even more).
slalomguy
better boards out there for the conditions that this board would most likley
be used in by most .
lets just agree to disagree
"Juri Munkki" <jmu...@cc.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:c7189t$do5$1...@epityr.hut.fi...
MituPo
I'm gonna give it a miss, mainly because its too small for comfortable
sailing off the plane, which is what I want. Something for really light,
gusty winds where you aren't always planing, and something thats not a
drama to sail to the wind line. If I'm well powered I'll probably be on
something smaller. If I could get a 125 I would go for it cause they
sound like fun to sail, but apparently no 125's came into NZ. I'm gonna
spend my money on the smaller parts of my quiver and maybe wait till
next yeay when the 133's come down in price
Mike
Frank Weston
Although the 105 can easily carry a 10.0, the average skill/weight rider is
going to find a 10.0 nearly impossible to uphaul and difficult to
waterstart. The typical winds that will require use of a 10.0 are also
winds that could easily drop to well below that required for a waterstart.
So, a new 105 owner rigs his 10.0, gets on a moderate plane, sails a mile
out and the wind dies. The sail and the rider both end up in the water.
Can't uphaul, can't waterstart. Now what? Also, the 105 is a very poor
slogger, even if the rider manages to keep the sail up when the wind dies.
The 125 liter version overcomes a little of this difficulty.
On the other side of the wind range, I find the 105 is just too big on sails
much smaller than about 6.5. It's sailable, but no fun.....yes, you could
rig a 5.0 on it, but you could rig a 5.0 on a Formula board too.
Conclusion: The safe and fun useable range for a 105 is really more like
6.5 to 8.5 (at my weight, 175#), which really isn't very wide compared to
lots of conventional boards. On the other hand, the 105 with a 7.8 can be a
nice combo, fast, and the gybes are tolerable with proper technique.
Frank Weston
"Craig (gsogh) Goudie" <gor...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:40942183...@netzero.net...
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Hypersonics dialed
in.
> begs the question why would anyone buy one?
Because it's by far the fastest board on the water in a wide range of conditions
with a wide range of rig sizes.
No, it's not great in < 10 knots, but if you can somehow get it going it will be
significantly faster than anything else that can get going in this windspeed.
> you can go upwind on a conventional slalom board
Yeah right....! Spoken like a true slalom sailor.
Slalom boards simply don't go upwind anywhere near as high or as fast as the
Hypersonic or the formula.
Yeah, you can stay upwind, on a slalom board, but you can't "drive upwind" like
on the Hyper or a Formula board. You need to redefine "upwind".
There's at least one person here dissing the Hypersonic. I find it a little
funny.
I was on a 6.5 Retro and the Hypersonic 105 about a year ago.
He was on a ProTech dedicated slalom board (his fastest, he said) with a Gaastra
Nitro 7.0 m2 race sail.
On a beam reach, we were pretty even, but I could hold his speed and go at least
20 deg. higher.
If he even came up 5 more degrees he started to fade away behind.
I could sail 20 to 30 degrees lower as well and he would simply fade away behind
if he tried to follow.
Hypersonics are NOT slow, but I agree, in a very narrow range of conditions, a
dedicated slalom board is probably a knot or 2 faster on a reach, but cannot
even come close to staying with the Hypersonic at higher and lower angles or in
windspeeds a few knots higher or lower.
> it does not slog well so its no good in up and down conditions
Why does everyone say the Hypersonic doesn't slog well?
It's a bit hard to get "early planing" figured out for the Hyper, but once you
do, if coasts through the "down cycle" (lulls) without falling off plane far
better than any other board I've ever sailed.
Once lit, it goes and goes. If the wind dies off, head off, and it will continue
to plane. When the wind comes back, crank it back upwind.
> please someone tell me what this boards niche is.
Simply put, it's the ONLY board that's really fast in 10-12 knots and 20-25
knots, 9.0-10.0 m2 rigs down to 5.0 rigs (I've even sailed it with a 4.6
Revolution wave sail, still fast, still the smoothest ride out there.
It may not live up to the initial "hype" about it's incredible range and speed,
but the "hype" was not far off, and if you select a Hypersonic that suits your
weight ('03 105 or 125 liter/'04 96, 111, or 133 liter) you will have a board
that has more potential to make you the days "fast guy" than any
other board ever designed.
> sorry to be so negative but I dont get it
> its a pretty wide board so it needs a largeish fin.
Where did you get this idea?
It's very fast with 5.0-7.0 m2 rigs with a very small high aspect 34 cm fin, and
it's also very fast with a 7.5-10.0m2 rig with a 44 cm fin.
These are really small very high aspect fins.
I think alot of people just do not understand that you have to build some speed
and get some water moving by these small efficient foils before that develop the
good lift they are known for.
I think many sailors new to the Hypersonics just get some big draggy fin because
they are pushing the better fin loose by jumping on it too early.
You need to head downwind a little more, and ooch the board onto a plane, but be
ready, because as soon as the fin bites the Hypersonics accelerate much faster
than any other boards.
> so right there in slalom conditions it cant go fast
Funny, most of the Dutch speed sailors have a Hypersonic in their quiver, and
the speeds they report are only a few knots slower on the Hypersonics vs their
custom speed slalom boards.
And there's no way they can even think of sailing their speed slalom boards in
12 knots or 25 knots
at least not with the same board.
I'm very interested in this "getting tossed" on the Hypersonic that several have
reported here.
I had the first 105 in the country, and I've sailed all 5 sizes. Don't think
I've ever been "tossed" yet.
Perhaps these sailors are trying too hard to "control" the Hypersonic. I find
that it doesn't like
being controlled alot. Just keep the power on, and
let the board work it's way over the chop.
My rails have felt like they were going to "dig" a few times, but they always
broke free.
I also hear alot of sailors putting the mast foot well forward. Why?
If you set the mast foot well back, let the board dance a bit, there is almost
no way to catch a rail, especially on the '04 models. Sure, the board dances on
the fin a bit, but that's fast.
Being in perfect control all the time is something I had to "un learn" to sail
the original Sonic W-75 after years on hard railed F2 Thommen slalom rockets
that would toss you in a heartbeat if you didn't maintain the perfect rail to
rail attitude.
Nearly all of the wider width, wider range, modern boards are a lot faster if
you don't try to control them. Just drive them hard, and let the board dance a
bit. You'll be fast, and figure out that even when it seems like you are "losing
it" if you just maintain mast foot pressure the board will come out the other
side right side up and going faster.
Sorry, but alot of folks here are bum rapping a really revolutionary board,
mostly because they haven't figured out that part of the revolution is that it
doesn't sail quite the same as their favorite slalom/speed board.
Roger
rod r
And I have it :-)))
rod
"MituPo" <mit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10834927...@radsrv1.tranzpeer.net...
LooseClu
always have things dialed in and I have become accustomed to being in
control while onboard. My insurance is paid up so next time out I'll give
my Hyperdemonic its free reign and pull the mast back in the track while
doing so. I bought my 105 early in '03 and took it out the first time in
30+ mph wind- it promptly scared the hell out of me with its tailwalking
incredibly fast ride and that mast track position has been pretty far
forward ever since along with smaller fins. Slogging is no problem (but
then I'm a lightweight old man) Slowing it down, or more accurately getting
use to going fast all the time, is a problem- that's my problem, not the
board's. I'm not a pro, never even been a really good sailor despite 2
decades plus of trying, but the Hypersonic is adding excitement to my
sailing and one of these days I'll get comfortable with it. At today's
prices on the '03 models its a whole lot of board for your bucks. Hope to
see you at Bird Island Basin in mid May Roger- I can use some more tips!
Roy
MituPo
> There's only 1 Hyper 125 in NZ
> And I have it :-)))
DAMN YOU!!!! wanna sell? :)
Bill Kline
hi Juri, Your 30cm slalom fin may work for you, but neither it nor any fin I
have seen at 30cm will be good for early planing for others. You must be a
super hot sailor. Are you a former Olympic sailor who can pump like crazy? You
must be an incredible athlete and have wind.
I cannot tell you how many sailors we have tested with and how many chose 42
and even 46 over my own 38. They were darn insistent about the difference,
even as I chose to suggest 38.
One Canadian sailor who liked larger (Canadians know one speed: fast), later
put my 38 on a Carve 111 and proceeded to work the hell out of me at top speed
while I sailed by AB 110. He insisted on 42 and 46 on the Hyper.
I have had a 2003 105 and 125. I ditched the stock fins. I have six now and do
not know what to do with them.
I have had one spinout with my personal favorite, the Curtis SR-6b 38 CNC. This
over many days of Gorge sailing. I might mention one respondent stated you can
wash the high aspect fin out at very low speed. He is likely referring to the
Curtis SR-6b design used in the molded 2004 line. Whether molded, handmade or
CNC, you can wash the fin when you are trying to get going. Just stay over the
board, point downwind as the respondent mentioned. Once going you should be
fine.
HYPERSONIC JUMP:
I had just gotten off my AB slalom board. If you are strong and athletic, you
can drive through jibes at highest speeds, with
your leverage being the only limit. It stays right in the water throughout,
with no bouncing.
I was sailing wound up 7.0 in the Columbia Gorge.
Then I switched to the Hyper, got it up to speed and drove into the turn, like
the AB. The board skipped (no spinout) and I was thrown off the board, hit the
water hard.
I believe supermen like Juri may rip the jibes at high speed. I adjusted my
jibe stance afterward, slowed a bit going in and it never happened again.
The Hypersonic 2003 was nice in light and variable, but not a great board in
chop for most. When the chop is up, you can take take a hot slalom fin as we
did with the SR-6b, put it on a slalom board, Sonic, Carve or otherwise and
get far better handling and perfromance.
But for in between performance from Formula to Carve series, the Hyper does
well for fun quick sailing. Just use good high aspect slalom fins as Juri and I
do.
Also place mast track same position to start relative to tail as you do your
slalom or freeride board. Then add good downhaul, more than usual as you do not
need the extra power once going. As Roger reported , shorter sailors may go
back a bit on the mast track.
In general go 36 to 46cm unless you are superman like Juri:)
Best wishes,
Reporting from Lake Garda, Italy. I am here until the 13th, happy to answer
questions or help. (Olympic Evaluation trials)
Juri Munkki
>control while onboard. My insurance is paid up so next time out I'll give
>my Hyperdemonic its free reign and pull the mast back in the track while
>doing so. I bought my 105 early in '03 and took it out the first time in
>30+ mph wind- it promptly scared the hell out of me with its tailwalking
>incredibly fast ride and that mast track position has been pretty far
>forward ever since along with smaller fins.
Track forward is what causes the rail or bottom hump to catch, just as Roger
said. "Smaller fins" is a very relative term. Tailwalking can be a symptom
of being overfinned. Another way to calm the board down is to move the boom
down a bit.
Juri Munkki
>hi Juri, Your 30cm slalom fin may work for you, but neither it nor any fin I
>have seen at 30cm will be good for early planing for others. You must be a
>super hot sailor. Are you a former Olympic sailor who can pump like crazy? You
>must be an incredible athlete and have wind.
No, I'm not super hot as a sailor. Also, I'm not strong, but then I'm
relatively light too. Given the emphasis of light and irregular winds here,
I have a lot of TOW with underpowered sails.
So, if there's one thing I would have to list as something I know how to
do really well, it would be light wind planing with a barely powered rig. Sad,
isn't it?
>I cannot tell you how many sailors we have tested with and how many chose 42
>and even 46 over my own 38. They were darn insistent about the difference,
>even as I chose to suggest 38.
I can understand them.
It took me a whole summer of sailing to migrate from a 38 cm fin to a
30 cm fin (when using a 6.8). With the HS105, the ideal fin would have
been anything between that 30 cm or the 34 cm Select (very similar, but
slightly wider than this year's stock 34 cm). I guess 32 cm would have
been the ideal compromise as I still had some nose trim issues to work
out with the 6.8 when the season ended. With this year's board, the 30 cm
proved to work right away.
>One Canadian sailor who liked larger (Canadians know one speed: fast), later
>put my 38 on a Carve 111 and proceeded to work the hell out of me at top speed
>while I sailed by AB 110. He insisted on 42 and 46 on the Hyper.
A 38 on a Carve is a different thing. The board has less grip, so the fin
should be longer.
If you have enough power, you can still be fast with bigger fins. At my
weight, I can't handle the power, so I have to work at reducing the drag.
>I have had one spinout with my personal favorite, the Curtis SR-6b 38 CNC. This
>over many days of Gorge sailing. I might mention one respondent stated you can
>wash the high aspect fin out at very low speed. He is likely referring to the
>Curtis SR-6b design used in the molded 2004 line. Whether molded, handmade or
>CNC, you can wash the fin when you are trying to get going. Just stay over the
>board, point downwind as the respondent mentioned. Once going you should be
>fine.
It's better to think of pumping the board rather than pumping the fin.
I use more up/down movement than sideways movement to get to planing
speed.
>Then I switched to the Hyper, got it up to speed and drove into the turn, like
>the AB. The board skipped (no spinout) and I was thrown off the board, hit the
>water hard.
I find that the 96 carves a lot more like a traditional slalom board.
I still think the most G-forces I have ever pulled in a jibe has been
on a Tiga 268SLR with a Rainbow V2 (35 cm) or True Ames slalom blade (32 cm).
That's almost 10 years ago, but I still have the board and fins. Just
like Boards.co.uk is planning on retro-testing the 268, I'm thinking of
maybe taking mine out for a spin to see what it feels like now... (It's
a pity I didn't keep the 270 I had before that: didn't jibe that well,
but the board was even faster...)
With the HS105, jibing is a bit like turning a go-kart at speed: you
have a certain amount of spin & slide, but the best way to go around
turns is to keep things under control and carve a smooth curve and
maintain speed.
>I believe supermen like Juri may rip the jibes at high speed. I adjusted my
>jibe stance afterward, slowed a bit going in and it never happened again.
I hope that's sarcasm, because if it isn't, you have the wrong idea about
me. I just try to balance my wimpyness with tuning and some amount of
technique.
Bill Kline
no sarcasm.. but now I understand as you are so light.
But, I am glad you explained your size choices further.
You explained well. thanks
best wishes for great sailing! Come on down to Lake Garda, here until 13th
>Subject: Re: Starboard Hypersonic - any good?
>From: jmu...@cc.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
>Date: 5/3/2004 2:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <c754tj$3g1$1...@epityr.hut.fi>
>Subject: Re: Starboard Hypersonic - any good?
>From: jmu...@cc.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
>Date: 5/3/2004 2:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <c754tj$3g1$1...@epityr.hut.fi>
Bill Kline
said. "Smaller fins" is a very relative term. Tailwalking can be a symptom
of being overfinned. Another way to calm the board down is to move the boom
down a bit.
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the win
Hi Juri,
In general I would say rig location to the rear of the board should be
relatively constant from Freeride to Hyper to Slalom.
The limitation you discuss is how the bottom design reacts to the forward
position.
Hence: Two choices:
1. work with the board with good geometry and stance, then when it catches as
chop builds, get the hell of it and sail a carve or slalom with same fin.
2. Try to tune out by moving rig significantly rearward more than Carve or
Freeride. If it is only board you have, this helps a little, but you are stuck
with a poor stance.
It is a Catch 22. I recommend sailing the Hyper 2003 with good fins and sail
trim.
When you ditch the 2003 stock fin, fins like the ones you and I describe help
immensely.
But in the end effective stance is compromised when you sail it outside its
functional range.
This is what I have experienced in my sailing and observing others of all
shapes and sizes. One of the world's leading sailors who tested extensively is
influential in the rig placement criteria.
But, we are not the ultimate. You all should experiment and report results as
is being done. that is what the forum is all about.
It seems evertime there are control issues in skiing, windsurfing type sports.
The equipment MUST be set up right to function optimally.
Then performance is easier.
It is a constant that is reported from those who fine tune equipment in both
sports. Beginner to world Cup CAN feel the difference immediately when the
equipment is selected and tuned right.
This constant is central to my life work.
We can feel if we allow ourselves to
WARDOG
The answer to your initial question, is YES...the HS is "good"...
It's a lot of things...IMO, Roger, Juri, & Roy pretty much covered it...
I ride the 2003 HS 105 & 125...generally, the size chosen is based on
your weight...it's a rewarding board...perhaps, a bit technical at
first, getting it tweaked to your comfort...small mast track movements
make a huge difference...footstrap placement...etc...but, once dialed
in, I have literally lapped other sailors on conventional slalom gear...
and in one reach you are able to go way upwind into cleaner air and H20...
Here are a few of my thoughts...plus, some vid clips...
* It's short...matter of fact, it's shorter than most people's high wind
wave boards...fits behind the seat of a mini-van...or even in
a rooftop carrier...
* It's fast...at many angles of attack (AOA)...many intermediates within
3-4 sessions, become one of the fastest, if not THE fastest, sailor on
their lake...
* It's cool looking: http://www.surfingsports.com/images/hyper_baja.jpg
* It can be used in shallow H20, because "big" fins are not necessary...
The rails and bottom on the HS have "bite"...I use a number of fins on
my HS...including a Deboichet 32cm , Select 36cm, my own WD 34cm ATX,
and WD FreeWeed 10" (25cm)...many people are satisfied with the stock
fins, regardless of what you read here, mostly emanating from one fin
salesman...
* It can be used as a "one design"...lake board...quiver optimization...
* It jibes waaaay easier and tighter than a FW board...
* 2003 models are incredibly affordable...the distributor
over-ordered... http://www.surfingsports.com/bargains.asp
Once planing...an ooch and a skooch pointed off the wind, and a sail
pump or two helps break the surface tension, and then it's off to the
races...motors through holes like it has a propeller...
Check out these vid clips:
http://www.surfingsports.com/starboard_hypersonic.asp
Hypersonic sound:
Stream: 2.7mb 1:30 min.
http://surfingsports.com/vidstream/wind/hypersonic_sound.ram
Download:
http://surfingsports.com/vidstream/wind/hypersonic_sound.rm
Long version with toons:
Stream: 23 mb 13:40 min.
http://surfingsports.com/vidstream/wind/hypersonic_lopez.ram
Download:
http://surfingsports.com/vidstream/wind/hypersonic_lopez.rm
The slomo vid clip of Will V (250lbs) jibing it in Baja was taken within
his first 15 minutes of riding it...it normally takes a couple of
sessions and some tweaking to get it really wired, because it is such a
short planform...once you have it wired...it's a big time freakin' blast!!!
I added the "shortboard" jibe of Will V for contrast...
http://www.surfingsports.com/vidstream/wind/willv_baja_jibes.ram
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
Bob Jacobson
board?
"WARDOG" <war...@XXXsurfingsports.com> wrote in message
news:gItlc.8756$fE.7067@fed1read02...
Juri Munkki
>I've never seen a Hypersonic in the SF Bay Area. Is this pretty much a lake
>board?
It's still a relatively new board, so even though many were sold, it's
not really surprising if you haven't seen one yet.
It's possible that the more consistent wind conditions in the Bay Area
mean that fewer people feel they need the specific features the board
has to offer. There's probably more interest in freestyle and B&J boards.
How would you define a "lake board"?
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.
Bob Jacobson
variable in velocity and direction: gusty, holey and shifty. That pretty
much fit the description of Lake Hefner in Oklahoma City when I lived there.
You needed a lot of equipment to sail there because of the range of
conditions. I could see where a Hypersonic would work there. From what I've
read and seen in WARDOG's videos, it seems that the Hypersonic would be a
handfull in big swell or chop.
"Juri Munkki" <jmu...@cc.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:c75v53$fh2$1...@epityr.hut.fi...
Juri Munkki
>I meant a board suited to generally small waves, with winds that are quite
>variable in velocity and direction: gusty, holey and shifty. That pretty
>much fit the description of Lake Hefner in Oklahoma City when I lived there.
>You needed a lot of equipment to sail there because of the range of
>conditions. I could see where a Hypersonic would work there. From what I've
>read and seen in WARDOG's videos, it seems that the Hypersonic would be a
>handfull in big swell or chop.
We don't usually get really big swell here (and if we do, I'll be on an
Evo, trying to ride them), but have chop. Sometimes as bad as Chrissy
Field in SF, but usually a bit less. All the reviews I have seen praise
Hypersonics on their chop handling. The bottom shape seems to generate some
sort of air cushion that makes it very easy to ride over the top of
chop. The short nose is light, making it easy to control the movement
of the board.
Boat wakes are sometimes big and steep enough to require special handling.
Plowing through may not be an option, but jumping is of course possible
(but not really recommended due to the light construction). So, there's
a limit to the chop handling, but it is difficult to quantify. In general,
the ride is smoother than on other boards.
For the first month of last season, I had the straps too close together.
Set up like that, I was unable to control the board in chop. Making the
stance 1" wider made a huge difference.
WARDOG
Bob Jacobson wrote:
> From what I've
>> read and seen in WARDOG's videos, it seems that the Hypersonic would be a
>> handfull in big swell or chop.
Hi Bob,
It was a handful, the first time I rode it...
I was one of the first in the U.S. to get one and ride it...took it to
La Ventana, Baja (big swell and chop) December of '02 and rigged up a
5.4m2 not knowing what the comfort range was..5.4m2 was during a light
wind period for there...holy shmoly...white knuckles...I even jumped
it...never buried the nose...not much to bury...
Didn't realize how freakin' fast this board was, because I couldn't
relax enough to look around...;-)
Didn't get many op's for light air until Summertime at one of our local
lakes...that's why I call it my "lake board"...even though I ride it in
the ocean as well...
Got it dialed in after a sesh or two...pretty kewl...shoreline comes up
quickly...you don't realize how fast you are going until you pass the
same guys dozens of times and start lapping them...;-)
http://surfingsports.com/images/lopez_overview.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/images/lopez2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_willv_hyper.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/images/mike_colee_lopez.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will3.jpg
Several guys just picked them up for Lake Shastina in Nor Cali...gusty,
high altitude, fresh H20...they are just lovin' the HS...sailing for
hours longer than normal...pointing way higher and going way faster than
any board has gone, there...before the HS, the gusty conditions just
wore them out sooner...
WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com
slalomguy
"Bob Jacobson" <rfj...@sbcglobal.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:mtulc.4918$SY2....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
ace
doesn't do it for me anymore and Formula is just too much board. Is
anybody unloading the 125's?
Ace
Juri Munkki
That was my situation when the HS105 was announced: I was getting a little
bored with a Bee 289 and wanted something faster and more lively. The Bee
looks gargantuan next to my Hypersonic (I sold it to someone in our club).
My big sails feel a lot smaller (in terms of lightness in the hands and
liveliness) on a Hypersonic than on that Bee. Jibing the 8.0 didn't
really become easier - possibly even slightly harder, but I moved my 5.8
from my "small freeride" quiver to the HS quiver, which allowed me to
buy a wave board this year (sails 5.0 and below). I don't think I would
have enjoyed using a 5.8 with the Bee.
Tony Swei
Do you have any comment about using Retors w/ the Hyper?? There's
been alot posted here and in other forums about the Hyper being
partial to cammed sails. In my expereince, Retros can be rigged to be
pretty stable so I'm not clear on why this idea is going around.
T
"sailquik (Roger Jackson)" <sail...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<40956D52...@mindspring.com>...
Bill Kline
There are many great sails out there. Rig an appropriate sail with matched
mast. Tune it right. Tuning is everything.
Retro:
Of course it works great if well tuned. Bruce Peterson, Jim Tracy, Dale Cook
and a bunch of other Sailworks guys here in the Gorge were among the very first
to test the Hyper 105 in USA.
If you use a good rig well tuned like above the biggest variable is good high
aspect fins. Ditch the stock 2003 fin replace with good the difference is Huge.
These melding of good fins and well tuned rigs were a constant with various
tests done worldwide
enjoy:)
>Subject: Re: Starboard Hypersonic - any good?
>From: tony...@pobox.com (Tony Swei)
>Date: 5/5/2004 7:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <486c312f.04050...@posting.google.com>