Windsurfing Masts old vs. new
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usenet[removethis]
I've just got to ask this question; I've been wondering if I should ask
you guys, but I can't find the answer anywhere else, so here goes.
I just started windsurfing on a very old Mistral Competition board that
I got for what must be around 10$, and it has been a very good board to
learn on, rock solid even if it has a tie on boom. I'm not an extreme
windsurfer, but since I'm close to water in the summertime, it was
something fun to do.
Because I wanted another surfboard (so my wife and I could both surf at
the same time) I recently bought another old board. It's a dynamic 290
and must be around 130L. It's a far reach to go from the old Mistral and
to this new semi sinker - but I'm learning and having fun.
Now for the question - I use a 465 green mast (must be glasfiber,
correct?) mast and I'm not sure if I should get a carbon mast instead. I
know they are lighter and more responsive, but are the extra $'s worth it?
Secondly I'm asking for your advice on on what equipment gives the most
fun/performance for the money spent. Sails/masts/booms/boards/cool
shades or bright colored pieces of string? :)
I know you often say: "Get some new gear - it's much better and it's
come a far way since then". But I don't want to get all new gear at
once, that'll be too expensive. :)
Thanks for your time.
/Allan
Sam
If you have a tie-on boom, the best purchase for improved sailing would be a
clamp on boom. I would buy a used aluminum clamp on boom. After you and the
wife learn to sail, then buy more sophisticated equipment in line with your
ability and sailing site. By this time you will be more knowledgeable about
your windsurfing equipment requirements. A carbon mast with a tie-on boom is
a waste.
Sam
"usenet[removethis]" <"usenet[removethis]"@kagstrup.dk> wrote in message
news:41000e85$0$202$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk...
usenet[removethis]
> Allan,
>
> If you have a tie-on boom, the best purchase for improved sailing would be a
> clamp on boom. I would buy a used aluminum clamp on boom. After you and the
> wife learn to sail, then buy more sophisticated equipment in line with your
> ability and sailing site. By this time you will be more knowledgeable about
> your windsurfing equipment requirements. A carbon mast with a tie-on boom is
> a waste.
>
Sorry, I was unclear. It's only very old my Mistral Competition that has
a tie on boom. My newer windsurfer has a fiberglass mast with a clamp on
aluminium boom. I'm asking for advice if a carbon mast would be worth
the money, because the fiberglass masts already seem very light. I'm
using a 5.2 m2 sail, by the way.
/Allan
Glenn Woodell
"usenet[removethis]"@kagstrup.dk says...
>
>
>Now for the question - I use a 465 green mast (must be glasfiber,
>correct?) mast and I'm not sure if I should get a carbon mast instead. I
>know they are lighter and more responsive, but are the extra $'s worth it?
>
>Secondly I'm asking for your advice on on what equipment gives the most
>fun/performance for the money spent. Sails/masts/booms/boards/cool
>shades or bright colored pieces of string? :)
I would suggest starting with a decent aluminum boom with a clamp on head.
Even used you can get one at a decent price which will last a long time. Next
I would get a good carbon mast. Again, you can find them used and even new
ones are pretty reasonable these days. These two purchases will give you a lot
of bang for your buck.
Very soon thereafterwards, I'd look at getting a more modern sail (sails),
assuming yours is as old as your other gear. If you are still interested
in the sport at this point (of course you are), then look at upgrading your
board and fin to something more modern. As far as the fin goes, look for a
good aftermarket fin sice many factory fins are marginal.
Glenn
rod r
I your case I'd definately go
Aluminium clamp on boom then
460 carbon mast, 50-75% carbon then
No cam sail then
Modern board
You can aquire each component separately if you wish to spread out the cost.
The boom and mast, particularly the mast, will last a long time so it's a
good idea to spend as much as you can on these items. Sail not quite as
important but for gods sake DO NOT buy cheap multi cam race sails. They are
the newbies worst enemy, (apart from narrow unstable boards).
regards,
rod
"Sam" <xyz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uUULc.126$ig3...@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
usenet[removethis]
> Hi Allan,
>
> I your case I'd definately go
>
> Aluminium clamp on boom then
> 460 carbon mast, 50-75% carbon then
> No cam sail then
> Modern board
>
> You can aquire each component separately if you wish to spread out the cost.
> The boom and mast, particularly the mast, will last a long time so it's a
> good idea to spend as much as you can on these items. Sail not quite as
> important but for gods sake DO NOT buy cheap multi cam race sails. They are
> the newbies worst enemy, (apart from narrow unstable boards).
>
Thanks, that helps.
When comparing a fiberglass mast and a carbon mast, wherein lies the
bigger advantage; the lower weight or the better "bending
characteristics" (or what you may call it)?
Does anyone know the weight differnce between fiberglass/carbon masts? I
can imagine that even if the weight difference is not huge in kg's, it
can easily be felt when sailing...
/Allan
[The vintage windsurfer] :)
Paul Scrutton
mast at the store. You'll be pretty amazed.
Paul
"usenet[removethis]" <"usenet[removethis]"@kagstrup.dk> wrote in message
news:41001f47$0$201$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk...
Scott G
board cruising on a light wind day.
In that case, you need nothing, but should invest in a clamp on boom
from a swap meet or internet used for $25-50. also get some bright
colored string.
Additional investment = seat harness and harness lines.
third step = possibly a modern sail and mast, if you are serious about
doing more than just putting around, size will depend on your weight,
your local winds, and your long term goals.
fourth step = a more modern early planing and easy learning board
(starboard start or go; Bic nova; Exocet cruiser, etc.)
You may want to jump to step 4 and get a new wide style board if
either you or your wife has trouble balancing on the old narrow
boards. Particularly for your wife, this may be your only chance to
get her hooked on the sport - too much falling and you may never get
her to try again.
Scott
"usenet[removethis]" <"usenet[removethis]"@kagstrup.dk> wrote in message news:<41000e85$0$202$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk>...
Will Harper
a green carbon mast for several years. Green for constant curve, red for
flex-top. Make sure you don't already have a carbon mast before you
"upgrade." Those old Powerexs weren't all that bad, especially
considering the rest of your rig, it could be the best part.
w
Glenn Woodell
pa...@paulscrutton.com says...
>
>If you think the fiberglass masts are light, try picking up a 100% carbon
>mast at the store. You'll be pretty amazed.
I'll second that one!
Glenn
Alan Sandoval
"Will Harper" <wil...@gorge.net> wrote in message
news:10g0fgp...@corp.supernews.com...
> If your green mast seems really light, it could be carbon. Powerex made
> a green carbon mast for several years. Green for constant curve, red for
> flex-top. Make sure you don't already have a carbon mast before you
> "upgrade." Those old Powerexs weren't all that bad, especially
> considering the rest of your rig, it could be the best part.
And if it really is a fiberglass mast replacing it with a carbon mast and
not replacing the sail with something more modern, the new mast will likely
be way too stiff to work with the old sail. Someone must know of some
rig-pack deals that might fit his budget. The 465 cm size to me means it
likely is a fiberglass mast, that size hasn't been standard for a long time.
Hi Will
Alan
Scott G
> bigger advantage; the lower weight or the better "bending
> characteristics" (or what you may call it)?
>
> Does anyone know the weight differnce between fiberglass/carbon masts? I
> can imagine that even if the weight difference is not huge in kg's, it
> can easily be felt when sailing...
Modern masts, whether fiberglass or carbon should have a modern
constant curve bend of standard stiffness (IMCS). Your older mast may
not have these standard dimensions, but that will not matter when you
use it with your old sail.
If you get a modern sail, you will definitely need a modern mast so it
bends correctly for proper sail shape. Higher carbon makes a mast
lighter, but also more fragile, so you don't want 100% carbon for
learning. Fiberglass masts and 30% carbon masts are really not that
different in weight. Once you get to 70% to 100% carbon they feel a
lot lighter.
You really don't need a new mast for your old rigs. Save your money
and get the new mast and the new sail at the same time. You will want
a bigger sail anyway.
For any of us to help you you need to give more info:
1- your weight
2 - your average winds you sail in (or want to sail in)
3 - using harness yet?
4 - using footstraps yet?
If no to 3 and 4, I would suggest keeping your old rigs which are fine
for trainer rigs and getting a modern learners board. Some of these
are $600 brand new and will help you learn far more quickly than a new
carbon mast and new sail will.
ScottG
Wal
constant curve mast.
After all, its only weight and bend that matter apart from strength. I'd
guess that anything within 10% of
standard would be as good as most of the gear that's out there.
To measure it you put it on a pair of trestles or similar so that its
supported 5 cm from each end.
Fix a string line above it and parallel to it as a measuring line.
Mark the mast at its mid point and quarter points.
Measure its unloaded deflection from the string line at the 3 points marked
along the mast.
Then load the mast with 30kg at its mid point. (Exercise weights tied on
with downhaul line works well.)
Measure the loaded deflection at the 3 quarter points. Take the unloaded
measurements from the loaded measurements to get the true deflection at the
3 points.
Call the deflection measurements Dt, Dm, Db (top middle and bottom)
1. MCS = 460/Dm
2. IMCS= MCS x L^2/460^2
3. CURVE = %bend at top - %bend at bottom
= (Dt/Dm x 100) - (Db/Dm x 100)
For a 460 mast MCS and IMCS are the same so forget step 2.
MCS ideally should be 25. 22 to 28 would probably work fine.
Curve ideally should be 12% but this can vary wildly. It matters with some
sails more than others.
"usenet[removethis]" <"usenet[removethis]"@kagstrup.dk> wrote in message
news:41000e85$0$202$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk...
Paul Braunbehrens
3-4 years old, at swap meets, and pick up stuff that is a great deal,
that way you'll never be sorry. With time, you'll figure out what the
next step is.
In article <41001f47$0$201$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk>,
LooseClu
Potential problems are not easily spotted since they are not under stress
when you look at them (and you can't see much of them when they are rigged).
A new mast that survives its initial use will last you years. If it fails
in the first year, its under warranty but a used mast is a pig in a poke
that might cost you a long swim as well as a sail repair and no recourse.
Roy
Wolfgang Soergel
Sure. But a 100% carbon mast for some recreational sailing in the
summer, on otherwise old gear? If you compare a low-mid carbon content
mast, say 30 or 50% to one of the lighter glass masts which
traditionally were distrivuted in learner packages (and not some old
heavy duty wave glass mast), the sheer weight difference won't be as
much, if any. Of course, there are still advantages but i suspect that
they will be very well hidden by the old sail. So it's probabely
worthwhile to invest in a complete new rig: Mast, possibly booms, sail.
Doesn't need to be absolutely high end, maybe some camless freeride sail
and a mid range mast.
--
Wolfgang
Michael
not as large or as strong as you, will REALLY appreciate it.
Particularly of note (though only of use if you're using a good clamp-on boom)
are the new "skinny" masts. My wife (who is petite, and has small hands) and
who often has complained to me that windsurfing gear isn't designed for women
to use, loves the skinny mast. They're also plenty strong (therefore manly).
If you're enjoying the sport, I like the suggestion that you go to a swap meet
and buy some used gear that's no more than 3 years old...you'll get some great
buys, and the difference will be night and day.<<
Hello everyone!
Thanks for your time.
/Allan
>><BR><BR>
Michael
US5613
Paul Braunbehrens
(and maybe booms) are a good investment new. However, I figured that
in this case the poster is not "there" yet.
In article <p_2Mc.1753$K%.1362@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, LooseClu
Glenn Woodell
>
>Glenn Woodell wrote:
>>
>> In article <6YWLc.12055$Qu5....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> pa...@paulscrutton.com says...
>> >
>> >If you think the fiberglass masts are light, try picking up a 100% carbon
>> >mast at the store. You'll be pretty amazed.
>>
>> I'll second that one!
>
>Sure. But a 100% carbon mast for some recreational sailing in the
>summer, on otherwise old gear?
Woops. I missed that 100% part. Overkill for sure.
Glenn
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Unless you are a really big fellow, a 130 liter board is not a "sinker".
At least not a modern 130 liter board that's around 70 cm wide.
Also, I agree, get the boom first, but then think very carefully about getting a
carbon mast before you decide on your next sail purchase.
The carbon mast will weigh 30-50% less than your old green mast (how much less
depends on the carbon percentage), but the performance of a carbon mast in your
old sails may be quite poor as the carbon mast will be designed for modern sails
where the mast bend characteristics can be very critical to the performance of the
sail.
So, I'd wait on the mast until you've selected a newer sail, then get the mast
(one you can afford) that meets the requirements of the new sail.
I'd also suggest a more modern board (not necessarily new, but a good wider, used
board) as this will show both you and your wife that windsurfing is a sport that
is performed "on the water" about 90-100% of the time, not "in the water" much at
all.
Hope this helps,