use of Techno 293
kim_t...@my-deja.com
time ago i've been offered a Bic Techno 293 at a
very reasonable price. An offer one could not
refuse (or hardly). But upfront a question
concerning this board : Is this a pure lightwind
board, or can it also be used for more wind
conditions ? And generally, what is the reason
that a lightwind board can not be used during
thougher conditions ? Does it become unsailable ?
Rgrds, Kim.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
windsofat
harness and footstrap for the first time. It's supposed to be good for that.
It's got massive volume (200+ liters) and amazing buoancy.
Sadly, I've had no better than about 10 kts since I got it in June, so I
can't really speak to its range. All I've got is heresay and impressions so
far . . .
If I were any lighter than 250 lb. (I'm at 280 lb.), I'd opt for a smaller
board for better maneuverability and more versatility/range. Supposedly I'll
get more range out of the 293 because of my weight.
The 293 is HUGE, but it still handles alot better than my old (crappy
O'brien) longboard in the conditions I've sailed so far. You might check the
283 by comparison. I've also read good posts about the Starboard GO.
I think of the 293 kind of like a 70's Cadillac: easy to drive, laid back,
maneuverable at its comfortable cruising speed on straight roads. At
high-speed through turns though, in rough conditions, you're better off with
a sportscar. The 293 will work, but it'll get tough to handle--especially if
you're light, I imagine.
I've also heard from a couple people that twin-fin boards like it get
unstable at high planing speeds. I hope to experience this.
The big caution is upwind performance when schlogging. I think most people
opt to add the center fin (it's an after-market option) for these conditions
and take it out for planing (that's a must). I just put massive weight on
the windward rail and I'm ok.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
<kim_t...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ngqti$pu8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Ellen Faller
the GO is still a great board at speed, through turns and in rough
conditions, especially compared to the 293. I had a chance to try a 293
recently, and it does sail like the 70's Caddy. Having had lots of time
on a GO, I knew what I hoped the 293 would do but it didn't. In my
opinion it has a lower upper limit than the GO. And knowing that I'd be
accountable to the crowd on this NG, I really did give it a fair trial.
It is a nice board, great for a big person, but just doesn't have quite
the same range of use. Plus it has a less friendly deck surface.
Ellen
(admitted GO fan)
Unknown
Endo
Endo
Ellen Faller
Being a true board of the new millenium, the 293 didn't have holes.
It had a track.
It did have 2 fins back and one in the center.
Now, the ride *was* a bit different from the Superlight!
anton
to be a bit heavier. So far Ive only ridden it in lightwind with
my 8.2 and it jams pretty good, more durable than GO, can definitely go
into way more shallow water then GO. The GO probably has a a higher
wind range due to 30+ less liters. It will definitely get you into the
harness/straps/ and beginning jibes. I'll answer your question with
another... Where you sail mostly, what are the conditions ? If it
doesn't often blow more than 20 mph, you would have nothing to worry
about.
In article <8ngqti$pu8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Ellen Faller
I question the "more durable than the GO" statement. I taught
beginners to intermediates on one GO for a year and never had the
slightest damage to my GO apart from a few cosmetic scratches on the
side due to sliding it out the door of the van. The Techno 293's do not
appear to be any more durable than the 283's and I have seen some pretty
heavy duty durability problems with them. Like almost every one of them
has had either a nose job, or is sporting lots of patches.
I also will take issue with the shallow water remark too. I use the DC
33 fin when sailing in water with shallow areas and it works
wonderfully.
We agree that the GO will take you into higher wind ranges. But it
will get going in lighter wind sooner than the 293 also.
If price is an issue, yes, the Techno 293 does appear to be cheaper,
but I'm guessing it's resale value won't be close to the GO's. (I sold
the GO I mentioned above for $50 less than I paid for it, and there was
some serious bidding for it too.)
Ellen
anton
the ASA skin techno. The GO does have the advantage of the huge deck
pad to protect the top surface. Oh yeah, I forgot about that little
fin, but for someone who wants a 'performance' oriented ride, they will
NEVER use that fin. Just wondering why you say the GO planes faster ?
I want you to undersatnd that I am in no way saying the GO isn't a good
board, or that the techno is better than it. I bought the techno, so
I'm gonna stick up for it more.
In article <39AC0A07...@yale.edu>,
sailquik
> The GO is an epoxy board, which in my opinion is less durable then
> the ASA skin techno.
my experience is much more durable both in terms of ding resistance,
and long term structural integrity.
> The GO does have the advantage of the huge deck
> pad to protect the top surface.
Yes, added protection, much better than non-skid, very durable.
It fades some is it's only drawback.
> Oh yeah, I forgot about that little
> fin, but for someone who wants a 'performance' oriented ride, they
>will NEVER use that fin.
If you are talking about the Starbilizers vs the small center
"beginner" fin in the Techno 293 (has anyone evre figured out what fin
Bic intended to be used here?) then you are right, as these are
designed to take the place of an awkward and heavy centerboard for
very beginners.
If you are talking about the DC-33 Fin, I have to tell you it's a
whole lot better than a weed fin, any weedfin, in upwind performance.
And, the GO comes with a very nice Curtis Racing CR-12 54 cm fin.
With the 54cm fin, the GO will plane a knot or 2 earlier than the
293, go upwind much higher, and can still be sailed (with the same
fin) in 25 knots+.
Have you tried the 293 at over 20 knots yet, with the twin fins?
> Just wondering why you say the GO planes faster?
Because it's becoming pretty much accepted that the only "production"
board that planes earlier than the GO is the Starboard Formula 155.
There may be a few customs that go earlier, but I haven't seen any.
And the GO with an experienced sailor and a 10.0+ m2 sail will plane
quite easily in 7-8 knots of steady wind for a 150-180 lb. sailor.
>
> I want you to undersatnd that I am in no way saying the GO isn't a
> good board, or that the techno is better than it. I bought the >
techno, so I'm gonna stick up for it more.
The Techno is indeed a nice board, but not quite in the same league
as the GO. The GO is wider and more stable, making it better as
a beginner platform, but also has a very large range of use as
someones first (or only) shortboard.
Bring your Techno 293 down to Hatteras and we can test them side by
side.
Oh, another question, where do you get weed fins for the Techno 293?
Since they are not a standard Bic Powerbox, it would seem the only
fins you can use are the ones that come with the board?
Could be a BIG problem in Hatteras and other weedy areas.
Regards, Roger
--
sailquik US 7011
Ellen Faller
> fin, but for someone who wants a 'performance' oriented ride, they will
Funny, I've found the DC-33 to work almost as well as the 54 cm fin!
I use the fin all the time in shallow water, and the only people who
complain are the ones I'm sailing with. I've used it with a 9.5 down to
a 3.8 sail, and had no problem. Most people probably couldn't tell which
fin was on the board if they didn't look. And with the GO, you can use a
range of different fins.
I've sailed the 293, and it is a nice board but it will never be the
all-around board that the GO is. I say the GO planes faster and in less
wind for the basic reason that it does plane faster, planes earlier, in
less wind, and goes faster also. No complex reasoning, it simply does.
Ellen
anton wrote:
>
> The GO is an epoxy board, which in my opinion is less durable then
> the ASA skin techno. The GO does have the advantage of the huge deck
> pad to protect the top surface. Oh yeah, I forgot about that little
> fin, but for someone who wants a 'performance' oriented ride, they will
> NEVER use that fin. Just wondering why you say the GO planes faster ?
>
> I want you to undersatnd that I am in no way saying the GO isn't a good
> board, or that the techno is better than it. I bought the techno, so
> I'm gonna stick up for it more.
>
anton
I just needed to give someone a hard time today, thanks, I feel better.
I haven't had the techno out in over 12-15 mph winds, but plan to as
soon as I get the chance. I'm curious how it will handle, I'll be sure
to report on it.
In article <39AD7D54...@yale.edu>,
Ellen Faller
I didn't think this was about "winning" anything! You have a new 293
and are pleased with it. I have no problem with that. BUT your "review"
went on to "bash" another board which you haven't got any experience
with/on, and seemingly to "bash" it *just* because it is a popular, and
well-regarded board. This to me is unfair and unnecessary.
If you like vanilla, does that make chocolate bad for some reason? Is
this a concept that we could all keep in mind when discussing gear?
Bring in negatives WHEN you have evidence and if it is
important/relevant to the matter under discussion. Or when you are
slamming your sailing buddy's stuff in the context of "friendly"
rivalry. There are few, if any, bad boards on the market today. Some
boards are aimed at a particular market so a wave board will not get
rave reviews from slalom sailors, but that doesn't mean either kind of
sailor has to knock the other guy's gear.
Your claim of the Techno's better durability was inaccurate to say the
least, and so was the remark about the DC 33 fin. You haven't any
experience on which to base your remarks, and so the remarks were merely
gratuitous and didn't help anyone in any way.
If your remarks had addressed the Techno 293 alone, or if you had some
constructive remarks to offer for reasons apart from just wishing to
give someone a hard time, I would not have commented at all. But when
people feel the need to bash another product with inaccurate/erroneous
information simply to promote a board they have just purchased, I will
speak up.
(soapbox is back under the desk now...)
Ellen
anton
with the GO. I have ridden them on several occasions. You need to
chill honey ! I did absolutely NO bashing of any kind. My comments are
exactly what they are... My opinion. Everything here is exactly that
and should be taken as such. I give a different point of view and you
are obviously offended by it, I'm sorry for that. Just relax.
Anton..
In article <39AEA0E9...@yale.edu>,
Ellen Faller
Sorry! It was my interpretation of your remarks about durability and
the DC 33 fin as some form of bashing since they were both negative and
not backed up with any information. I was not offended by your opinions,
but by your lack of basis for your opinions which, in my view, makes
them "assumptions/presumptions" instead. And you did offer the thought
that you wanted to give someone a hard time. That wasn't my idea.
But there are plenty of posts on rec.ws in which the essence is
"brand x rules cuz I own one, and brand y is trash cuz I don't own one".
That portion of my remarks is still a general request for *constructive*
remarks and discussion of gear.
If your opinions were based on experience, then please, be my guest
and tell us about the damage you have experienced and the performance
problems with the fin. In the past when others have experienced
difficulties, it has been the case that a tip in altering techinque has
helped performance which appeared to be related to equipment.
You did not mention any experience with durability problems with the
GO when stating your opinion that it is less durable, so it appears to
be a presumption. Wood and Dyneema reinforced epoxy with thick EVA deck
is considerably more durable than a thin ASA-skinned Techno, and I have
seen *many* sad examples of the difference. I have based my opinion on
those facts.
I do not work for Starboard, but I do own and use 3 of their boards,
as well as several other brands.
Ellen
>The GO is an epoxy board, which in my opinion is less durable then
the ASA skin techno. The GO does have the advantage of the huge deck
pad to protect the top surface. Oh yeah, I forgot about that little
fin, but for someone who wants a 'performance' oriented ride, they will
NEVER use that fin. Just wondering why you say the GO planes faster ?<
> I just needed to give someone a hard time today,<
>
sailquik
I was just going through all the posts in this thread, and
I see alot of dialogue (much of it very "polarized",
around GO vs Techno 293) but I also notice that no one
has adequately answered your questions.
> Hi, I am a beginner at windsurfing. Just a little
> time ago i've been offered a Bic Techno 293 at a
> very reasonable price. An offer one could not
> refuse (or hardly).
If you are to get a really good deal, the Techno 293
will be one of the best beginner boards on the market.
The other "best" beginnere boards are the Starboard GO
and the soon to be released Starboard "Start".
> But upfront a question concerning this board : Is
> this a pure lightwind> board, or can it also be
> used for more wind conditions?
It's pretty lightwind oriented, and the top end range
would depend a great deal on your weight, how quickly
you develop your skills, and what rigs you have available
to extend your wind range on the 293. I would expect you can
sail the 293 comfortably up to around 20 knots. This will depend
somewhat on the geography surrounding where you sail. If there's
not much "fetch" and the water stays pretty flat, you may even
go beyond 20 knots. If you live on the open sea, and there's
lots of fetch, your upper sailing threshold may be dictated by
how much chop and swell you can handle.
So the answer is no, the Techno 293 is not just a lightwind/
beginner board, but at some point depending on your weight and
the sea state it will be too big and floaty to be sailed comfortably
and in control.
> And generally, what is the reason that a lightwind board
> can not be used during thougher conditions?
At some point control of the board becomes a big issue. With 2 fins
and over 200 liters of volume, I would expect the 293 to top out
at around 18-20 knots, but as I said here previously, that will depend
on alot of other factors, not just the size of the board.
> Does it become unsailable?
Yes, but this is not specific to the Techno 293.
Every board, even tiny little high wind boards, have an upper limit
beyond which they are more out of control than "in" control.
This depends on the sailors weight, skills, sea conditions, whether
the winds are extremely gusty, and numerous other factors.
It's not the same for the same board with different sailors and it's
also not the same for different boards and the same sailor.
Most expereinced sailors have some sort of high wind board and rig,
but sometimes they get to the launch area, take one look at the
huge seas, and raging winds, and just say "not today"! They may stay
and watch some of their friends go out and get trashed, or they may
just head on home. You really have to sail a board in alot of
conditions before you really understand it's limits.
Imagine me (@ 165#) sailing a Starboard Formula 155 in the Gorge,
on both sides of the river with a 7.9 m2 sail in gusty winds up
to 22 knots. I now have a much better understanding of what I can
handle on that board.
Hope this anwers your question. :-)
Regards,
Roger
--
sailquik US 7011
Sailworks/Starboard
MTVNewsGuy
Sailquick provide the answers in the following dialogue:<< > Hi, I am a
Michael
US5613
Kim De Herdt
Thanks everybody for the advice and remarks and especially Roger for the
clear answers.
As i intend to buy one board that should last several years and cover as
much wind conditions as possible (this should be my only board), i think i
will let the deal on the techno 293 pass and try to purchase a GO.
Again thank you all for your reactions.
Kim.
sailquik (Roger Jackson) <sail...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:8omdrr$b3l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...