Starboard Carve 111 Maiden Voyage
Tom - Chicago
More likely the sweet spot for the Carve 111 is a 7.5 M sail.. The Carve
99 would be much better for 6.0 and 5.0. (Your friend on the Ride 277 was
on a smaller board and bigger sail)
I'd keep the deviator if I were you - they work, and I guarantee you that
you will have some direct hits on the nose as you get better/go faster.
They can be a bit of a pain in the a** but the will save the nose of your
board.
I have to disagree about new boards vs old. The new gear (last 2 seasons)
is much better - especially the kind of gear you bought. Boards like the
Carve 111 did not exist several years ago. Spend more time on the board,
get a decent fin and you will find that it has much more range and is much
more fun than your old slalom board.
Tom - Chicago
Endo wrote:
> The wind Gods finally shined on me (must have been the lama dance).
>
> So here's the report on my new Starboard Carve 111 board:
>
> Keep in mind, this is only my opinion and I've only tried about 6
> others boards in my short 4 months of windsurfing but for whatever
> it's worth, here goes.................
>
> First thing I noticed: this board is short......only 264cm long. My
> last board was 290cm slalom style but about the same volume (about
> 110L). This shortness is very noticable, even when subplaning. A
> little extra pressure near the mast or tail and this board rotates
> quickly. I tried to adjust for this.
>
> Second thing I noticed, the extra width wasn't that noticable. My old
> board was 57cm wide and I figured going to a new "widestyle" 63cm
> board would make it less wobbly during uphauls and when subplaning.
> Nope.....but then again what would you expect.....it's only 6 extra
> cm.
>
> It felt a little unstable getting onto a plane perhaps due to the wide
> tail with almost no vee. It was also difficult to tell when it was on
> plane. It may have a lot to do with my technique (although I read a
> lot about early planing technique in the last week and tried to do all
> the "mast foot pressure" tricks).
>
> It did seem to plane a bit earlier (maybe 2 or 3 knots sooner) but not
> that different.
>
> Once on plane it felt very stable as long as the wind stayed around
> 15kts.
>
> It was VERY easy to get into the straps compared to my old slalom
> board which has the strap set way back on a thin tail.
>
> My friend was riding next to me and said he thought I had the mast too
> far back as I seemed to be sinking the tail. I'll may need to play
> around with the mast position or adjust my stance a bit.
>
> I was using 1995 Hot Maui AWOL 6.9m sail and it was gusting 10 to
> 20kts, which forced me off and on plane every 15 seconds (annoying).
>
> My friend had a brand new 2000 NP Supersonic 7.4m sail and Ride 277.
> He was about 50% faster than me, but I figure this was due entirely to
> his newer and extra 0.5m larger sail.
>
> It picked up a couple of times to 25kts and I got to see what the top
> end was like on this board. Unfortunately, I had the wrong sail (and
> way too much draft) so things good pretty unstable. I can't blame this
> on the board. I'll have to see how it does with my brand new NP 6.0m
> Supernova next time it blows a bit harder.
>
> I got going fast upwind once and things got really hairy.....the board
> felt like it wanted to fly! Again, mostly a fault of too big a sail
> but I can say that this board does like to get air. I hit some 2 foot
> chop and the board was airborne a couple of times. It felt very light
> in the air but the rig felt heavy.
>
> Where this board really shines is the carving (like the name implies).
> I hit a full speed carve jibe that I leaned into hard and this board
> carved like a dream! You can lean a very tight radius turn (under 10
> feet) and shoot up a ton of spray! I was VERY impressed with the
> jibing characteristics of this board.
>
> The fin seemed good but picked up weed pretty easy. When it started
> blowing 25kts I felt it start to spin, but I think this was mostly the
> fact that I was oversailed and also my bad technique (too much
> backfoot pressure). For a sail around 7.0, I figure a 36cm fin would
> be better than the stock 32cm.
>
> The pointing of this board is not great, like most freestyle type
> boards, it seems to want to bear offwind. My friend on the Ride
> commented that I wasn't pointing as high as he was able to. Again,
> probably it will take a little getting used to.
>
> I installed a deviator on the board to avoid making a "nose sacrifice"
> of my virgin board to appease the wind Gods. I didn't like the
> deviator at all. Due to the shortness of the newer boards, I find I
> need that "real estate" just ahead of the mast. I'm going to remove it
> next time.
>
> I might be tempted to say this board seems to be more range limited
> than my old slalom board but I will try it again with my smaller 6.0
> and 5.0 sails before I make that conclusion. After all, this board is
> designed for a lighter 6.0 sail.
>
> Conclusion:
>
> 1) All in all, I'm pretty happy with my new board. I thing I will be
> VERY happy when I install my newer 6.0m sail and get a little more
> water time on her. I write a followup report in about a month.
>
> 2) Like a lot of other sports I do, I find the difference in
> performance between "good old equipment" and "expensive new equipment"
> to be very small. I think it's mostly marketing that drives some
> people to upgrade every year. To put it another way, I wouldn't have
> bothered upgrading to a new board if I had something good from 5 years
> ago. I think I would have been very disapppointed if I had done this
> but considering my gear was 10 years old....it was time.
>
> There were a lot of guys on Mistral Screamers and V8 sails that looked
> just as happy as me. But if you're a rich gearhead and you got GAS
> (Gear Aquisition Syndrome), then what the hell, it does get lots of
> attention at the beach.
>
> The only board I tried that felt VERY different was a homemade super
> widestyle Falcon that my friend made. He's been windsurfing forever
> and has made a lot of boards himself and he tells me, "they're all the
> same". I tend to agree that everyboard with a volume of +/- 20% feels
> the same. I think just like wine snobs, some people like to stand
> around and talk about how the "board is too stiff" or some other
> subtlety like this but I just think it's crap.
>
> Now on the other hand, when I tried this wide-ass Falcon, I
> said....."now this is different. I can stand on this thing and tack or
> jibe all day long without falling in". I gues the GO is the same way
> but I haven't tried it. But I think you need to go about +/- 50% in
> volume from what yout have know to notice a real difference.
>
> Now why didn't some genius figure this "super-wide" beginner thing
> back in the 80's when they were making those dumb longboards?
>
> Anyway, getting off topic, time to stop.
>
> Endo
Wolfgang Soergel
>
> The wind Gods finally shined on me (must have been the lama dance).
> So here's the report on my new Starboard Carve 111 board:
>
> Keep in mind, this is only my opinion and I've only tried about 6
> others boards in my short 4 months of windsurfing but for whatever
> it's worth, here goes.................
>
> First thing I noticed: this board is short......only 264cm long. My
> last board was 290cm slalom style but about the same volume (about
> 110L). This shortness is very noticable, even when subplaning. A
> little extra pressure near the mast or tail and this board rotates
> quickly. I tried to adjust for this.
>
> Second thing I noticed, the extra width wasn't that noticable. My old
> board was 57cm wide and I figured going to a new "widestyle" 63cm
> board would make it less wobbly during uphauls and when subplaning.
> Nope.....but then again what would you expect.....it's only 6 extra
> cm.
be a problem once you learned to instinctively handle not only the roll
around the long axis (where width helps) but also that it's more
important to look at the front-back balance on a shorter board. I had a
similar experience last year (after 10+ years of sailing since i've been
a teenager) when getting on my new freestyle board (260x60 cm, around 90
liters) the first time: Little to no wind, first thought: S%^t, the
thing is a tad too small for fun on the lake (compared to the 273x57,
98l and 268x57, 90l boards i had before). One more session and it was no
problem anymore, i knew where to stand and what to do, without thinking.
Probabely even improved my slogging abilties on the small boards.
> It felt a little unstable getting onto a plane perhaps due to the wide
> tail with almost no vee. It was also difficult to tell when it was on
> plane. It may have a lot to do with my technique (although I read a
> lot about early planing technique in the last week and tried to do all
> the "mast foot pressure" tricks).
>
> It did seem to plane a bit earlier (maybe 2 or 3 knots sooner) but not
> that different.
And: 2 or 3 knots compared to a similar volume board, with the same rig,
isn't that bad, especially combined with the fact that the Carve will
stay on a plane in lulls much longer than your old shape.
[..]
> My friend was riding next to me and said he thought I had the mast too
> far back as I seemed to be sinking the tail. I'll may need to play
> around with the mast position or adjust my stance a bit.
>
> I was using 1995 Hot Maui AWOL 6.9m sail and it was gusting 10 to
> 20kts, which forced me off and on plane every 15 seconds (annoying).
akward trim, to me. You're sure you're really sheeting in? i mean REALLY
sheeting in, having the weight in the harness? Older, "traditional"
shapes with narrower outlines, widepoint farther in front and the rocker
lines of these days would just go a bit slower, if one didn't sheet in
whereas the complete trim of a more modern board may get upset. But hard
to tell without seeing.
> My friend had a brand new 2000 NP Supersonic 7.4m sail and Ride 277.
> He was about 50% faster than me, but I figure this was due entirely to
> his newer and extra 0.5m larger sail.
Give yourself some more time oo get used to your Carve and you should be
able to follow him pretty well, as long as you're at least somewhat
powered.
[..]
> I got going fast upwind once and things got really hairy.....the board
> felt like it wanted to fly! Again, mostly a fault of too big a sail
> but I can say that this board does like to get air. I hit some 2 foot
> chop and the board was airborne a couple of times. It felt very light
> in the air but the rig felt heavy.
Don't ever try a lighter rig then or G.A.S. will take it's toll...
> Where this board really shines is the carving (like the name implies).
> I hit a full speed carve jibe that I leaned into hard and this board
> carved like a dream! You can lean a very tight radius turn (under 10
> feet) and shoot up a ton of spray! I was VERY impressed with the
> jibing characteristics of this board.
10 foot turn radius under full speed and you stayed on board? Respect,
after 4 months of shortboarding i was happy to stay dry, no worry about
spray.
> The fin seemed good but picked up weed pretty easy. When it started
> blowing 25kts I felt it start to spin, but I think this was mostly the
> fact that I was oversailed and also my bad technique (too much
> backfoot pressure). For a sail around 7.0, I figure a 36cm fin would
> be better than the stock 32cm.
Spinout at the upper range of control is mostly a technique issue or a
question of too much fin, not too little. Too small a fin will mainly
hurt planning and upwind ability in light air. 36 - 38 , slightly
curved, is probabely a good choice for this board and a 7.0 but i think
you can also have fun with the stock fin (which isn't bad, at least the
one delivered in EUrope) while you're stuck with it.
> The pointing of this board is not great, like most freestyle type
> boards, it seems to want to bear offwind. My friend on the Ride
> commented that I wasn't pointing as high as he was able to. Again,
> probably it will take a little getting used to.
Yes, it's (besides the fin, see above), a lot of getting used to. Sure,
the Ride will point a bit better but imho the Carve and similar boards
point well enough. Otherwise freestyle would not worthwhile, where one
does quite short reaches between transitions. Btw., getting on a plane
on a beam reach isn't that easy, it's better to do that on a broad reach
and then genttly carve upwind once the board has accelerated to full
speed.
> I installed a deviator on the board to avoid making a "nose sacrifice"
> of my virgin board to appease the wind Gods. I didn't like the
> deviator at all. Due to the shortness of the newer boards, I find I
> need that "real estate" just ahead of the mast. I'm going to remove it
> next time.
Pretty much my feelings.
> I might be tempted to say this board seems to be more range limited
> than my old slalom board but I will try it again with my smaller 6.0
> and 5.0 sails before I make that conclusion. After all, this board is
> designed for a lighter 6.0 sail.
I don't think so. You'll need some sessions to get used to it but then
you'll probabely find more range in the new one.
> Conclusion:
[..]
> 2) Like a lot of other sports I do, I find the difference in
> performance between "good old equipment" and "expensive new equipment"
> to be very small. I think it's mostly marketing that drives some
> people to upgrade every year. To put it another way, I wouldn't have
> bothered upgrading to a new board if I had something good from 5 years
> ago. I think I would have been very disapppointed if I had done this
> but considering my gear was 10 years old....it was time.
>
> There were a lot of guys on Mistral Screamers and V8 sails that looked
> just as happy as me. But if you're a rich gearhead and you got GAS
> (Gear Aquisition Syndrome), then what the hell, it does get lots of
> attention at the beach.
Depends on what you compare and what you expect. But i'd say there are
significant differences over periods of 5 years or longer. This doesn't
mean that all old gear is crap and it's makers where dumb, no way. There
are classics, like the Screamer, which still perform very well within
their envelope of usage and may not be topped by much of more modern
designs. Otoh. there are certabily improvements which may make some new
toys worthwhile from time to time. I'd supsect your Carve isn't worse
than the Screamer (at least with its stock fin) in any respect (they
should be about equal in speed on a reach and upwind capability) but
better in many (planning, jumping, tricks with fin first, generally it
should feel much lighter and looser).
> The only board I tried that felt VERY different was a homemade super
> widestyle Falcon that my friend made. He's been windsurfing forever
> and has made a lot of boards himself and he tells me, "they're all the
> same". I tend to agree that everyboard with a volume of +/- 20% feels
> the same. I think just like wine snobs, some people like to stand
> around and talk about how the "board is too stiff" or some other
> subtlety like this but I just think it's crap.
Depends. I probabely would not notice the difference between 140 and 150
liters but i certainly note 5 liters in a waveboard. And i certainly
note differences between different boards, although it's often seemingly
minor things (i hate thick "dome decks" for example). Trim does make
differences in the same order of magnitude however. And: It's often just
percieved differences, a different feeling. It may well be that two
boards (say one from 10 years ago and a modern one) are objectively
equally fast, the riders may percieve it differently. So what, i'm not
sailing for numbers but for enjoyment, so for me the feeling counts.
> Now on the other hand, when I tried this wide-ass Falcon, I
> said....."now this is different. I can stand on this thing and tack or
> jibe all day long without falling in". I gues the GO is the same way
> but I haven't tried it. But I think you need to go about +/- 50% in
> volume from what yout have know to notice a real difference.
>
> Now why didn't some genius figure this "super-wide" beginner thing
> back in the 80's when they were making those dumb longboards?
Didn't have boards light enough then, didn't have the fins needed to
make these boards work, didn't have the technology and experience to
make the big rigs needed on these boards work, beginner boards "had" to
have daggerboards anyway,... It's a long developement, from the first
windsurfer (tm) over the first shortboards, battened sails, the
(partial, 'till today!) understanding of sail dynamics and fin profiles,
the first course races on shortboards (which haleped realize that
shortboards was not a high-wind only thing like in the mid-80s. The pro
tour then had a wind limit of 18 knots for slalom and wave, everything
else was longboards) and so on.
--
Wolfgang
Endo
had lots of people say " give it more time", and I will.
My friend on the Ride 277 sold me his old board which I am now
replacing with the Carve 111. It's funny, but he had the same feeling
when he switched boards. He hated his new board at first but after a
year of getting used to it, he loves it. I think I'll like my Carve
even more once I get used to it. I don't think it will take to long
since I'm new to the sport and don't have too many ingrained habits.
Endo
Endo
<to...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Endo:
>
>More likely the sweet spot for the Carve 111 is a 7.5 M sail.. The Carve
>99 would be much better for 6.0 and 5.0. (Your friend on the Ride 277 was
>on a smaller board and bigger sail)
A 7.5M? Starboard says the sail range is 4.8M to 7.2M. I understand a
lot of the new sails have more range than before but you really think
a 7.5M is the optimum size for a Carve 111? I thought the Carve 99 was
way too small for a 7.0M, which is what I use most in 15kt winds.
>
>I'd keep the deviator if I were you - they work, and I guarantee you that
>you will have some direct hits on the nose as you get better/go faster.
>They can be a bit of a pain in the a** but the will save the nose of your
>board.
I'll see if I can get used to it.......but it REALLY bugs me now.
>
>I have to disagree about new boards vs old. The new gear (last 2 seasons)
>is much better - especially the kind of gear you bought. Boards like the
>Carve 111 did not exist several years ago. Spend more time on the board,
>get a decent fin and you will find that it has much more range and is much
>more fun than your old slalom board.
What would you consider a better fin than the stock 32cm Starboard
Freeride fin? Something straighter and longer for my 7.0M sail (like a
36cm) or something more curved and smaller for my 5.0 and 6.0M (like a
28cm). Any brands or models you'd suggest?
Endo
Wnsrf jat
about gettin a carve... but you hit the nail on the head .... i suffer from
GAS.....to a point where i think i need therapy....haha,,,,,,i have tried the
new 279 ride, the 282, the air 260 and 265, axis 272......all being trade or
sold for something else.....youre friend is right ... theyre all the same and i
truly believe its marketing.... did you know that 80% of all boards are made at
the cobra factory??????check out the dimensions and shape of the carve 111 and
the mistral 111...they look identical and both are manufactured in the cobra
factory.....by the way this is my 3rd ride 277... and i can sail my 7.5 v8-4.7
convertigo on it( i do have a 85 liter board for 5.3-4.7) kind of tells me
something.........thanks for the wakeup call and thank your friend for his
astute observations......i dont need a new board.... just a reminder that the
old ones still work fine......keep on that carve until you know it like the
back of your hand... ifeel that way about the 277.....ps. i sprce up the
graphics on my ride... put a batman sticker on the nose deck and a picture of a
brunette in a bikini on the nose bottom.....haha.... had to put the brunette on
the bottom face down......ya know ... favorite pos. and
all......hahahaha...good sailin ........
Steven Slaby
> A 7.5M? Starboard says the sail range is 4.8M to 7.2M. I understand a
> lot of the new sails have more range than before but you really think
> a 7.5M is the optimum size for a Carve 111? I thought the Carve 99 was
> way too small for a 7.0M, which is what I use most in 15kt winds.
I have a F2 Ride (103L) which feels great with a 7.0 and I plan on trying
my 7.5 on it as soon as the conditions cooperate. With more volume in your
board you should be able to handle a 7.5 with ease (you might need a
bigger fin).
The F2 Ride replaced a $50 piece of junk that I was sailing that was
narrow, long and about 95L. When I first switched the length
differential felt awkward but after 4-5 sessions I became accustomed to it
and while the board didn't feel fast I found myself going faster than
people who were previously leaving me behind. I sold the $50 special to
another local and now he was the one being left behind!
Steve.
--
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is
that it has never tried to contact us" (Bill Watterson)
Tom - Chicago
You should be able to sail a 7.5 on the Carve 111.
Someone who has the board can recommend better fins - but I would look for
something in the 38 - 42 cm range for bigger sails.
Tom - Chicago
Lois Stufflebeam
Endo wrote:
>
> What would you consider a better fin than the stock 32cm Starboard
> Freeride fin? Something straighter and longer for my 7.0M sail (like a
> 36cm) or something more curved and smaller for my 5.0 and 6.0M (like a
> 28cm). Any brands or models you'd suggest?
>
Endo,
I used a 32 cm. Techtonics spitfire on my Carve 99 last weekend with a
5.5 sail. Worked great. You might consider one a tad larger for your
111. Techtonics are expensive, but they are worth it.
Lois
Kipps Zygarewicz
"Wnsrf jat" <wnsr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000906075925...@ng-co1.aol.com...
> did you know that 80% of all boards are made at
> the cobra factory??????check out the dimensions and shape of the carve 111
and
> the mistral 111...they look identical and both are manufactured in the
cobra
> factory.....
Sure, 80% of the boards may be made at the Cobra factory, but that does not
mean that they are also designed there... and by the same people.
-Kipps
--
To reply directly, remove the SPAMDAM from the e-mail address
Mark
Give it more time, and you'll come to appreciate the quality of your
new board, and the improvement it represents more.
Both because with your short time, you'll become a better sailor and
feel the subtleties better, and because you'll get used to the
differences, and manage them more instinctively.
I agree on the 36cm fin for a 7.0. Big improvement over 32. At least
for me a 190lbs.
As for overall speed...
Back when I was starting out, I got passed by heavier sailors, on
older gear, that was smaller than mine by 1.0... It aint all gear.
In fact, I think it's MOSTLY skill, until everyone being compared is
at the top levels. Then it may come down to gear. I've passed race
sails with a wave sail. And I've been on the other end of it too.
Pretty much all gear will go fast enough to be really fun. It's just
a matter of finding whats really comfortable for free-ride, and makes
your experience the best it can be. I expect the carve will work out
well for you in that respect!
And me... I'm still waiting for the wind-gods to allow me a try on my
new JP 265. I've gotten out a couple times since on my big light wind
gear, but couldn't see stretching it down to the 265. GAS has me
wanting one of the big wide floating dock boards now.
Finally, if you can carve a real tight jibe, with walls of spray, and
stay on the board after only 4 months in a not so good sailing
location, you've got loads of talent! Pat yourself on the back!
Ellen Faller
long to adjust to your new board. Your skills will grow to meet the
challenge of the board, and the board's design will "grow" on you as you
learn to make the most of it. You have a board that is in the
appropriate design category for your most often encountered conditions.
The main difference between your board and your friend's board is that
he has been on his for a year. He may not "love" your board if he tries
it, because it is not what he is used to.
Windsurfing boards vary a great deal from one another in design, and
in design concept as well as from year to year model variations, so it
often does take time to adjust to a new board. "Different" does not
equate to "bad design" but may be "inappropriate" or just "new."
Not all 111 liter boards will perform the same way, given differences
in outline, volume placement, tail shape, rail shape, rocker, mast track
placement, etc. Not only that, but your skill level is changing rapidly
at this point. I know that I had boards that I loved when I first got
them, but which I outgrew within a year, and other boards which I miss
because that particular board did something very well for me that no
other has done.
These are all reasons that it is very difficult to find a satisfactory
board review. An intermediate will feel quite differently about a board
from a pro, and neither of them is either wrong or right. Trying to
compare a speed oriented board to a freeride to a wave board is apples,
oranges and bananas; likewise a design from 4 years ago to a new design.
Some of the most useful comments are those that point out a board's
strengths so that you can match them to your own conditions.
Enjoy!
Ellen
Wnsrf jat
carve 111 fri..... which i am replacing my 277 ride which i loved.....
however... time for a change.... and the design , and weight of the board makes
so much sense..... ive been sailin for 18 years.... and am still a bit
apprehensive about gettin the board... ive been an f2 man for 10yrs.....get the
board dialed in takes about a year or so..at your level.....plus as ellen says
your skill level improves everytime you get on the board..... good
luck......cant wait to sail it in some good swell ......jerry
Endo
been employed .......as a telegraph operator....
Endo