For people who sail in 40 degrees or less...how do you keep your face warm?

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Michael

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Jan 11, 2007, 11:44:38 AM1/11/07
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I'm glad that we have a thread going on hand warmers, but the other
body part that often decides whether or not I can handle the cold is my
face. I'm finding that once it's about 42 degrees my face really
hurts in the wind. Is anyone wearing a ski mask or vaseline or got
some other trick? Or am I just too sensitive and out of luck.

-Michael (hoping to personally have the experience of my clew icing up
from spray when the air is under 32.)
www.peconicpuffin.com

tomct...@gmail.com

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Jan 11, 2007, 1:17:50 PM1/11/07
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Not sure about keeping your face warm, as I and people who I havent
ventured into that cold of air temps yet!!
But we did get a nice January day this past Saturday in Syracuse, NY on
Oneida Lake...
Air was about 50, water was low 40s. Gusty but fun for January!


http://news10now.com/content/all_news/central_new_york/?SecID=86&ArID=91376

mewin...@aol.com

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Jan 11, 2007, 2:20:13 PM1/11/07
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The only thing that keeps my face warmer is exposing each side less
per tack by doing shorter tacks. I sailed yesterday for about 5 hrs at
shirley. it was 34-36 degrees and when I took a long tack out to the
island, my face started hurting, but keeping the tacks short helped out
the situation.

Frank Scotello

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Jan 11, 2007, 5:30:37 PM1/11/07
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I use a neoprene face mask as can be seen from this photo.

http://www.windsurfillinois.com/sesh/10_12_06_007.jpg

Frank Scotello


"Michael" <mad...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1168533878.2...@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

Steven Slaby

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Jan 11, 2007, 5:44:42 PM1/11/07
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"Michael" (mad...@aol.com) writes:
> I'm glad that we have a thread going on hand warmers, but the other
> body part that often decides whether or not I can handle the cold is my
> face. I'm finding that once it's about 42 degrees my face really
> hurts in the wind. Is anyone wearing a ski mask or vaseline or got
> some other trick? Or am I just too sensitive and out of luck.
>
> www.peconicpuffin.com

The only time my face was been bothered by the conditions while sailing
when it was really cold was when it switched from rain/freezing rain to ice
pellets. I made a b-line for shore and my face felt like it has been
sandblasted.

I've never noticed my face being cold, since the air is much warmer than
the average day of skiing/snowboarding in the winter. Correction, if I
take a head-first crash into the water then I get an instance "ice cream"
headache and that's it for the session that day.

I do wear either a helmet with a liner, or a thick neoprene hood; do you
have anything on your head?

>Michael (hoping to personally have the experience of my clew icing up
> from spray when the air is under 32.)

Be prepared for everything including the board deck to ice up, although a
short break to dunk your equipment under the water will have you going
again quickly.

Also, check your downhaul/outhaul lines before you leave the water; if
they are frozen solid, dip them in the water to thaw before you carry the
gear back to the car, and if your mast is mysteriously stuck when
de-rigging, its probably just frozen together so back to the water!


Steve.


Craig Goudie

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Jan 11, 2007, 5:56:20 PM1/11/07
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Vaseline works pretty well if you can keep it on. I've pretty much
given that sort of thing
up for good powder days since the water here is mostly solid.

-Craig

(PeteCresswell)

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Jan 11, 2007, 7:12:38 PM1/11/07
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Per Frank Scotello:

>I use a neoprene face mask as can be seen from this photo.
>
>http://www.windsurfillinois.com/sesh/10_12_06_007.jpg


These guys have an interesting twist: They sell you the mask as a full hood and
you do the cutting to fit your own schozz/eyes/ears/chin:

Unfortunately their web site http://www.ossystems.com/ is so dysfunctional that
I just spent 10 minutes there trying to it. Stumbled on to it once, but
couldn't bookmark it and couldn't get back to it a second time.
--
PeteCresswell

Michael

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Jan 11, 2007, 8:35:12 PM1/11/07
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Those points about frozen line, mast pieces etc are good to know. Wow!
Not that I want to make frozen windsurfing a regular activity, but I
do want to check this out!

I like the hood that Frank Scotello is wearing...I think between that
and glasses and helmet that I'd be more comfortable than I am now. I'm
going to look for one at the sporting goods shop tomorrow.

cosmicharlie

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Jan 12, 2007, 7:40:34 AM1/12/07
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A few years ago I was told by Greg of WindSnowH2O that he always came
to a point in the windsurfing season at Kalmus when he was just
surviving on the water. He wasn't enjoying himself. Personally I
believe winter sailing is for the brainless who have serious issues
about their manhood at home. It's bad enough not knowing enough to
stay out of the rain, but the cold? Now, let's see all the answers
from those who hide behind the cumputer and strut their stuff.

Dan Weiss

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Jan 12, 2007, 9:20:52 AM1/12/07
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zzzzzzz........

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 12, 2007, 12:52:18 PM1/12/07
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I wear a thin (2 ml ) hood under my insulated helmet... the hood covers
much of my face. Nice thing about thin neoprene is that it stretches
really well and doesn't affect fit of the helmet . This hood has the
option of either worn over the mouth or not. When it gets really cold,
I use it over my mouth so that my hot breathe warms my face.

-- Pete

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 12, 2007, 1:14:16 PM1/12/07
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Ah yaaaa, forgot to mention... Norwegian blood also really helps. My
Grandpa Arthur come from the most northern part of Norway.... yes,
indeed.

-- Pete

Dan Weiss

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Jan 12, 2007, 4:26:46 PM1/12/07
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That would be directed to our antihero lovely way of saying just the
thing, just so, rather than the subject itself.

-Dan

Dan Weiss

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Jan 12, 2007, 4:26:53 PM1/12/07
to
That would be directed to our antihero's lovely way of saying just the

thing, just so, rather than the subject itself.

-Dan

wee...@aol.com

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Jan 12, 2007, 4:32:46 PM1/12/07
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Craig wrote:

<<< Vaseline works pretty well if you can keep it on. I've pretty much

given that sort of thing
up for good powder days since the water here is mostly solid. >>>

Ummm... I would caution Cosmicharlie from using Vaseline at Kalmus.
Ahhh.. Vaseline and Kalmus don't mix if you catch my drift. ;-) You
know, the "enchanted forrest" out back. Then again, it could be a good
thing, if you ever need Vaseline just ask one of the backrow parkers
WITHOUT ROOFRACKS.

Michael

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Jan 12, 2007, 7:44:28 PM1/12/07
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I'm going to give that a try, Pete. My mother is of Norwegian
descent, but she's no fan of cold water!

-Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 12, 2007, 9:32:39 PM1/12/07
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Michael wrote:

> I'm going to give that a try, Pete. My mother is of Norwegian
> descent, but she's no fan of cold water!
>
> -Michael
> www.peconicpuffin.com

Yeah, my mom was born in Minnesota and now resides in Santa Clara,
CA.... she now complains about any temps below 69* F. What is it with
those 1st generation Americans? I attribute my resilience and hardy
cold temp acclimation to both teen rebellion (still with me) + the gene
pool.

Gotta dig deep into that generational gene pool, dude.... the blessing
is still there.

-- Pete

Bill (NC/ME)

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Jan 12, 2007, 10:16:08 PM1/12/07
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Hood for my head... beard for my face. ;-)

Florian Feuser

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Jan 12, 2007, 10:35:48 PM1/12/07
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On 2007-01-12 07:40:34 -0500, "cosmicharlie" <blowb...@yahoo.com> said:

> Personally I
> believe winter sailing is for the brainless who have serious issues
> about their manhood at home. It's bad enough not knowing enough to
> stay out of the rain, but the cold? Now, let's see all the answers
> from those who hide behind the cumputer and strut their stuff.

priceless.

Florian


GeorgeUSA39

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Jan 13, 2007, 1:08:28 AM1/13/07
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just google neoprene face masks and you will wind a workable solution

Roy Tansill

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Jan 13, 2007, 3:49:10 AM1/13/07
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"Michael" <mad...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1168565711.8...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> Those points about frozen line, mast pieces etc are good to know. Wow!
> Not that I want to make frozen windsurfing a regular activity, but I
> do want to check this out!

An alternative to defrost the frozen downhaul/outhaul is to prop it up a few
inches from your tailpipe, climb in the car and fire it up, then defrost
yourself As the car gets toasty and you regain the ability to feel your
extremities, you can derig more comfortably.
LooseClu


cosmicharlie

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Jan 13, 2007, 6:32:04 AM1/13/07
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>>Norwegian blood also really helps. My
> Grandpa Arthur come from the most northern part of Norway.... yes,
> indeed.<<
Gregg E. Ludvigson, Owner
Wind, Snow & H2O
gr...@windsnowh2o.com

>>Vaseline works pretty well if you can keep it on. I've pretty much given that sort of thing
up for good powder days since the water here is mostly solid.<<
Vaseline helps prevent frostbite on exposed skin. It's used by on-snow
ski professionals.
I'm curious, D.W., other than projecting your amusing arrogance of
insignificant office, what do you expect to achieve with
unintelligeable posts?

cosmicharlie

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Jan 13, 2007, 6:53:25 AM1/13/07
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Michael, if you are serious about continuing to expose yourself to raw
conditions, cold water swimmers use goose grease not vaseline. I have
a very expensive cream which is available in ski shops and made in
Sweden. I use it on my cheekbones for ski conditions which have
windchills around 50 below F. You can also optain neoprene ski masks
which can cover your face. I use them quite successfully in high wind,
blizzard conditions for low aerobic activities. However, survival in
the winter IMHO means staying dry. If you want to avoid the ugly
blotching that frost bite leaves on your face, don't expose wet skin to
the wind.

cosmicharlie

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Jan 13, 2007, 7:17:52 AM1/13/07
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The name of the Swedish cream is Dermatone Skin Protector. Like most
of the non-sense on this forum that Norwegian blood drivel is a lot of
bunk, too. The Eskimos have been the most successful people in
surviving in a cold, wet environment. Mongolian facial features have
advantages over northern European in these conditions, but your blood
composition means nothing.

Steven Slaby

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Jan 13, 2007, 8:25:59 AM1/13/07
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"cosmicharlie" (blowb...@yahoo.com) writes:
> The name of the Swedish cream is Dermatone Skin Protector. Like most
> of the non-sense on this forum that Norwegian blood drivel is a lot of
> bunk, too.

So ancestry does not impact your ability to withstand cold.

The Eskimos have been the most successful people in
> surviving in a cold, wet environment. Mongolian facial features have
> advantages over northern European in these conditions,

Oh wait, now you say that ancestry does have an impact on your ability to
withstand cold!

Nice to see you contradict yourself in the same post! Thanks for your
"expert" analysis.

> but your blood
> composition means nothing.

Here's a free lesson in language 101 for you, "in your blood" in the
context Pete used it does not literally refer to his blood but his ancestry.

Stick to things you know like hiding behind your keyboard and sometimes
hitting the water to catapult through your sail. Jelousy of others who are
still out there enjoying the water is pretty childish.

Steve.

(PeteCresswell)

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Jan 13, 2007, 9:41:46 AM1/13/07
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Per Steven Slaby:

>> The name of the Swedish cream is Dermatone Skin Protector. Like most
>> of the non-sense on this forum that Norwegian blood drivel is a lot of
>> bunk, too.
>
>So ancestry does not impact your ability to withstand cold.

I wonder if this is a Euro vs USA semantic issue.

In my experience one of the meanings of "blood" in Euro context is genome or
ancestry.... as in the old song "Weinerblut"....i.e. "Royal Blood (or ancestry)"

That meaning is there in USA usage too... but I don't think it's a commonly
used.
--
PeteCresswell

Florian Feuser

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Jan 13, 2007, 10:11:19 AM1/13/07
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On 2007-01-13 09:41:46 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> said:

> I wonder if this is a Euro vs USA semantic issue.
>
> In my experience one of the meanings of "blood" in Euro context is genome or
> ancestry.... as in the old song "Weinerblut"....i.e. "Royal Blood (or
> ancestry)"
>
> That meaning is there in USA usage too... but I don't think it's a commonly
> used.

I think the meaning of "blood" is interpreted by context - probably
anywhere the English language is used and understood.

Pete's reference to grandpa Arthur wasn't all that serious or
scientific to begin with, but that didn't keep a certain bellingerent
moron from firing a broadside against everyone participating in this
thread.

florian

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 13, 2007, 11:43:48 AM1/13/07
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Florian Feuser wrote:

> Pete's reference to grandpa Arthur wasn't all that serious or

> scientific to begin with....


Glad someone got it right. Nope, dunno about no science... but who
knows what's passed along the gene chain. Unfortunately, gramps died
of a heart attack when he was just 71, so perhaps my days are
numbered..... that's prolly why I sail the cold winter days. Polar
bear cold therapy sesh's might just strengthen my heart.... but again,
I dunno about the science to prove this theory.

-- Pete

spe...@windjunkie.net

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Jan 13, 2007, 2:59:48 PM1/13/07
to
My grandmother used to call bad people something that SOUNDED like
"Shockreff" (I'm positive the spelling is different), which is Polish
for "Dog's Blood", apparently an incredible insult in Poland.

Of course, If all you "genetically superior" sailors were REALLY smart,
you'd move out here to California, where "cold" is 60, a parka is a
flannel shirt, and "snow boots" means changing from flip-flops to
moccasins!

--Spennie

Craig Goudie

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Jan 13, 2007, 3:24:09 PM1/13/07
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Hi Ed,

I had the opinion Chuckles might fit right in on the back row, jar of Vas
and all ;*)

-Craig

<wee...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1168637566.8...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

M. Gunn

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Jan 13, 2007, 4:54:37 PM1/13/07
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in article 1168718387.4...@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com,
spe...@windjunkie.net at spe...@windjunkie.net wrote on 1/13/07 11:59 AM:

> Of course, If all you "genetically superior" sailors were REALLY smart,
> you'd move out here to California, where "cold" is 60, a parka is a
> flannel shirt, and "snow boots" means changing from flip-flops to
> moccasins!


Hey there Spennie...air's been in the low 40's and water not much more
'round here. The wind's been whippin' and the windchill's been well below
freezing this past week. Last time I checked I was still in California. I've
seen full grown men reduced to near-tears waiting for their fingers and toes
to thaw after just a few minutes in the Bay. We call that California
Screamin' on a winter's day.

;)
mo
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 13, 2007, 6:53:11 PM1/13/07
to
> Of course, If all you "genetically superior" sailors were REALLY smart,
> you'd move out here to California, where "cold" is 60, a parka is a
> flannel shirt, and "snow boots" means changing from flip-flops to
> moccasins!

> --Spennie

Absolutely!! Good point... everyone should move to Cali.... land of
superior human beings. Best of everything... yes sir. Yep, California
is the place ya wanna be.

cosmicharlie

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Jan 14, 2007, 8:12:26 AM1/14/07
to
After spending a year in California, I don't agree with you people at
all. One of my worse winter experiences was in California when I was
trapped in a white out trying to get over Deadman's pass near June
Lake. California is the land of extremes, warm winds and frigid
waters, etc. It never rains there, it pours. The land of Nuts and
Fruits.

windmt...@yahoo.com

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Jan 14, 2007, 11:32:54 AM1/14/07
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cosmicharlie wrote:

> The land of Nuts and Fruits.


Yeah, but they got superior Nuts and superior Fruits.

oneup...@gmail.com

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Jan 14, 2007, 1:11:28 PM1/14/07
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"The land of Nuts and Fruits..."

Never more so than when you're there, Brucie.

oneup...@gmail.com

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Jan 14, 2007, 1:18:16 PM1/14/07
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Brucie said: "Personally I believe winter sailing is for the brainless
who have serious issues about their manhood at home..."

This clearly explains why you yak so much about your winter sailing.

"It's bad enough not knowing enough to stay out of the rain, but the
cold?"

Wait a minute, Mr. Brucie Snowguy.... Aren't you always bragging about
your escapades in the cold on the ski slopes?


cosmicharlie wrote:
> A few years ago I was told by Greg of WindSnowH2O that he always came
> to a point in the windsurfing season at Kalmus when he was just

> surviving on the water. He wasn't enjoying himself. Personally I


> believe winter sailing is for the brainless who have serious issues
> about their manhood at home. It's bad enough not knowing enough to
> stay out of the rain, but the cold? Now, let's see all the answers
> from those who hide behind the cumputer and strut their stuff.

> Michael wrote:
> > Those points about frozen line, mast pieces etc are good to know. Wow!
> > Not that I want to make frozen windsurfing a regular activity, but I
> > do want to check this out!
> >

> > I like the hood that Frank Scotello is wearing...I think between that
> > and glasses and helmet that I'd be more comfortable than I am now. I'm
> > going to look for one at the sporting goods shop tomorrow.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steven Slaby wrote:
> > > "Michael" (mad...@aol.com) writes:

> > > > I'm glad that we have a thread going on hand warmers, but the other
> > > > body part that often decides whether or not I can handle the cold is my
> > > > face. I'm finding that once it's about 42 degrees my face really
> > > > hurts in the wind. Is anyone wearing a ski mask or vaseline or got
> > > > some other trick? Or am I just too sensitive and out of luck.
> > > >

> > > > www.peconicpuffin.com
> > >
> > > The only time my face was been bothered by the conditions while sailing
> > > when it was really cold was when it switched from rain/freezing rain to ice
> > > pellets. I made a b-line for shore and my face felt like it has been
> > > sandblasted.
> > >
> > > I've never noticed my face being cold, since the air is much warmer than
> > > the average day of skiing/snowboarding in the winter. Correction, if I
> > > take a head-first crash into the water then I get an instance "ice cream"
> > > headache and that's it for the session that day.
> > >
> > > I do wear either a helmet with a liner, or a thick neoprene hood; do you
> > > have anything on your head?
> > >

> > > >Michael (hoping to personally have the experience of my clew icing up
> > > > from spray when the air is under 32.)
> > >

Michael

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Jan 14, 2007, 11:07:07 PM1/14/07
to
Okay, I bought a neoprene face mask and some air-charged hand warmers.
Now just give me a cold windy weekend day...

-Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com

Michael

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Jan 15, 2007, 10:30:42 AM1/15/07
to
Okay, I've bought a neoprene mask (Seirus Ultra Clava Three-in-one,
$29) and some Grabber air-activated hand warmers (see other
thread)...now I just need a cold windy weekend day.

cosmicharlie

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Jan 18, 2007, 7:56:52 AM1/18/07
to
Yesterday I was skiing in 5 to 10 below F. and used the Dermatone. It
really works. It has a petroleum base but is thicker than the
petroleum jelly sold commonly. However, when it comes to <<now I just
need a cold windy weekend day.<< You must be nuts. You might need a
warm windy weekend day, but no one needs a cold one.

Dan Weiss

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Jan 18, 2007, 10:20:49 AM1/18/07
to
Hi Michael: You are not alone in feeling discomfort on your face when
sailing in cold weather. Wind chill and salt water combine to create a
pretty nasty situation -both in terms of how it feels and the drying
effect on your skin (despite the water). I find that a neoprene ski
mask is not as helpful as a coating of something like vaseline or
Dermatone. The mask tends to rub my face raw when combined with salt
water, and requires religious cleaning to prevent bacteria from making
a home in your skin the next time you sail. A similar thing happened
to my face after failing to rinse my ski goggles during the course of a
week of skiing. The following week I had a red ring exactly where the
goggle foam touched my skin.

Dermatone is widely available and has the benefit of SPF protection,
something Vaseline does not.

There are two types that I've used. The first is the tin of Skin
Protector. It works great, but is not as "permanent" as the Facial
Sunblock.Moisturizing Stick.

The Tin:
http://www.dermatone.com/asp/DermMain.asp?Option=Info&Item=2208

The Stick: http://www.dermatone.com/stick.htm ***scroll down a bit on
the page

The only problem with a skin coating is how your skin reacts. Too much
can clog pores and lead to problems, but a warm shower and good face
scrub will do wonders. In fact, I keep a pack of alchohol-based baby
wipes in my gear bag to help clean up before the ride home. I'm all
for salty eyelashes, but not so psyched about greasy skin. Your
mileage may vary, of course.

Happy sailing!

-Dan

Michael wrote:
> I'm glad that we have a thread going on hand warmers, but the other
> body part that often decides whether or not I can handle the cold is my
> face. I'm finding that once it's about 42 degrees my face really
> hurts in the wind. Is anyone wearing a ski mask or vaseline or got
> some other trick? Or am I just too sensitive and out of luck.
>

> -Michael (hoping to personally have the experience of my clew icing up


> from spray when the air is under 32.)

> www.peconicpuffin.com

Florian Feuser

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Jan 18, 2007, 12:41:31 PM1/18/07
to
On 2007-01-18 10:20:49 -0500, "Dan Weiss" <dwu...@comcast.net> said:

>
> Dermatone is widely available and has the benefit of SPF protection,
> something Vaseline does not.
>
> There are two types that I've used. The first is the tin of Skin
> Protector. It works great, but is not as "permanent" as the Facial
> Sunblock.Moisturizing Stick.


I's pretty cold up right now in your (physical) neighborhood, Dan - I
drove back from Boston yesterday morning and I couldn't fathom sailing.

Thanks for the tips regarding face prtection. I will have to try that.
The only area that got uncomfortably cold in the past was my forehead,
but I will have to get a better hood with a lower facial cut-out.

Something I found when wearing a hood is that water or air trapped in
your ears under the neoprene acts to transmit sound and water pressure
very effectively. The neoprene acts like a drum skin or membrane of
sort and I would hate to hit the water with the side of my head and
blow my ear drum in the process. I had started wearing a fleece cap
under the helmet instead of a hood for that reason, but obviously it is
too cold for that now - besides, icy water in the ear is not inly
painful but also has bad long-term effects:

http://www.surfline.com/community/whoknows/whoknows.cfm?id=1976

Florian

Dan Weiss

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Jan 18, 2007, 2:00:58 PM1/18/07
to
Florian, next time you plan to come up this way give me a shout. We
missed each other last time we tried.

-Dan

Michael

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Jan 18, 2007, 5:22:22 PM1/18/07
to
Thank you, gentlemen!

One thing that I will point out in potential favor of the neoprene mask
(I'll report back after this weekend) is that when it's so cold that I
need to cover my face (40 degrees and down), I sail in shallow water
(ie waist deep) and conservatively (ie the odds are excellent that my
head will not get dunked.)

Florian...will you be sailing the north shore this weekend if it's 40
degrees? I'll be wimping out at either Mecox Bay or
Napeague...staying in those shallows to keep my head above water.

-Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com

Florian Feuser

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Jan 18, 2007, 7:15:57 PM1/18/07
to
On 2007-01-18 17:22:22 -0500, "Michael" <mad...@aol.com> said:

> Thank you, gentlemen!
>
> One thing that I will point out in potential favor of the neoprene mask
> (I'll report back after this weekend) is that when it's so cold that I
> need to cover my face (40 degrees and down), I sail in shallow water
> (ie waist deep) and conservatively (ie the odds are excellent that my
> head will not get dunked.)
>
> Florian...will you be sailing the north shore this weekend if it's 40
> degrees? I'll be wimping out at either Mecox Bay or
> Napeague...staying in those shallows to keep my head above water.
>
> -Michael
> www.peconicpuffin.com
>


i was hoping to sail the ocean on Saturday if it's due West, maybe
drive to the North shore if it swings around to NW.

Florian

oneup...@gmail.com

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Jan 19, 2007, 8:35:42 PM1/19/07
to
"One of my worse winter experiences was in California when I was
trapped in a white out trying to..."

Brucie, the word is WORST. And, most likely, you were stoned or drunk
and staring at the sun.

You are such an stupid moron. Does mom still call you "idiot swift"?

oneup...@gmail.com

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Jan 19, 2007, 8:38:54 PM1/19/07
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"I was skiing in 5 to 10 below F..."

In East Falmouth? C'mon, Brucie. Be realistic. You are such an
idiot.

"...thicker than the petroleum jelly sold commonly..."

What, you use this stuff with your P-town pals?

Florian Feuser

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Jan 20, 2007, 8:43:21 PM1/20/07
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On 2007-01-18 14:00:58 -0500, "Dan Weiss" <dwu...@comcast.net> said:

> Florian, next time you plan to come up this way give me a shout. We
> missed each other last time we tried.
>
> -Dan

I definitively will do that.

Stay warm.

Florian

cosmicharlie

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Jan 21, 2007, 8:40:17 AM1/21/07
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Since the only winter sailing I have done has been in Florida, I can't
comment on the efficacy of any of these aides when on the water.
However, for cold skiing I use the Dermatone that comes out of a tin
and my tin is 15 years old. I have noticed no curruption in that
period. There's no risk of having it wash off, but the wind and air
flow can be rather brutal when skiing. Although some people use them
religiously, the neoprene masks aren't very useful for active skiing as
the moisture that passes through the mouth will cause the air vent to
ice up and freeze. It is also harder to breath heavily with one of
these on which is why I only use them for low aerobic activities i.e
walking, shovelling snow, ice-kiting. I noticed while skiing the
French Alps that the guides didn't wash their faces or hands often.
The altitude will give one a tan and your natural oils prabably help in
blocking the cold and sun. Dermatone can be washed off easily with
common soap.

Michael

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Jan 21, 2007, 11:26:21 AM1/21/07