Sailworks NX Formula or Retro? Advice Please!
Jeffrey D. Sollender
winsurfing after a long absence, bought a Starboard Formula 175 and need
advice as to whether to buy an NX Formula quiver or Retro (eg 9.5, 8.0 & 7.0
to start...Sailworks tells me on a 175 even a 10.4 is not necessary).
Second board likely to be a carve 111 or 123 and it would be nice, if
possible to use one or two of these sails on it as well if feasible,
although I can easily buy a couple of smaller sails for the quiver as well
and again advice please on whether the smaller sails should be retro or
Formula. Sailworks people are nce and giving good advice and are pushing me
a little towards the retro line (a little more forgiving at the sacrfice of
a little power) but tell me the formulas are great too...Thanks...
--
J. Sollender
sol...@attglobal.net
Steven Slaby
My understanding is that the Retros actually have *more* power than the
NX's but that the NX's have more range and more stability.
If you are planning on racing, then NX's is the way to go; otherwise I
would lean towards the Retros for lots of low-end power, super easy to rig
and just a pleasure to use.
Steve.
--
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is
that it has never tried to contact us" (Bill Watterson)
Andrew
Hi Jeffrey!
For small (under 7.5m) sails Retro works great. I have Retro and it my
favorite sails! But for bigger sails probably you need something with
cambers, they makes sail a lot more stable in lite wind. Something
like Windwing Synthesis or any other freeride or freerace sails. BUT
DON'T BUY RACING SAILS! They really heavy and they have wide mast
sleave that make them very hard to uphoal and not much fun to sail.
Good luck!
Andrew
Frank Weston
to say that there are some other choices that are good.
As far as Sailworks goes, I would definitely go for the NXT quiver, assuming
you're capable of and want to get the most out of your gear in the widest
range of conditions. Also plan on spending the bucks on a good stiff carbon
boom.
I'm you're weight, and I own a 175. If I were picking a new Sailworks
quiver, I'd go with the 10.4, 8.95, and 7.7. On the 175, these sails should
cover you over the range from just planing up to about 25 kts. If you're
going to seriously race, you'll need a couple more sails to fill the gaps,
but for recreational sailing you'll have great coverage.
For a second board, I'd go with the carve 111 or even the 99. I think the
123 will overlap the 175 too much. Although you might be able to use your
7.7 on the 111, and you might be able to use the 8.95 and the 7.7 on a 123,
on a 99, you'll need more sails. Once you get below the 7.7 NXT, I would go
with Retros for the smaller sails. Maybe a 6.5 and a 5.5, and maybe a 5.0
Retro or a 4.8 Revolution.
Here's my recommendation:
Formula 175 and 10.4, 8.95, 7.7 NXTs good to 25+ kts
Carve 111 and 6.5, 5.5 Retros + 4.8 Revolution good in 14 - 30 kt range
Frank Weston
Jeffrey D. Sollender wrote in message ...
Lois Stufflebeam
> If you are planning on racing, then NX's is the way to go; otherwise I
> would lean towards the Retros for lots of low-end power, super easy to rig
> and just a pleasure to use.
>
I have to agree with Steve, unless you plan on serious racing, go with the
Retros. They have the low end power that you need for Mission Bay, plus
they have a huge range. My mantra, since sailing Retros, has become
"Re-tune instead of re-rig." Saves a lot of time, and you won't miss that
30 minutes of wind that Mission Bay gets.
Lois
Exkraut
the V8 it replaces, but vastly bigger range, and sweet in the gusts! For shifty
conditions, this is certainly the finest sail I've ever tried!
Eva
Graff J431
Don't know about the NX, but full on
race sails with the correct masts are wickedly fast and Stable. I would
carefully consider these also.
I went this route (rx-1,10.6 and 9.3Z1) with my F155, and @%**# these things
generate speed in a sea breeze. And I'm just some hacker who likes to sail.
The 175 is great choice. You would have been planing, pushing hard against the
fin, 5 of 7 days last week; and several days this week. For much more than a
half an hour a day also! It's all about gear choices.
It is still fun to glide a longboard around on the light variable, non-planing
days. I still think they are nice to have here unless you can drive at will to
find wind.
Dave
sailquik (Roger Jackson)
Having sailed many years in Mission Bay, San Diego, and having done a
Demo there
with Gary and Eunice (Cannibal Bros.) last summer, I would have to ask
you
why you are recommending race sails for Mission Bay.
There are a few camless sails out there that have, size for size, more
low end power,
and plenty of stability to handle Mission Bay (and San Diego in general)
conditions,
and they now come in larger (up to 10.5 m2) sizes. Yes, you do a good
bit of "upwind slightly"
sailing in Mission Bay, but on my last trip, I was flying, so my ability
to take alot
of gear was limited. I took a 10.7 Race sail, but borrowed a big Retro
from Gary.
Guess what, I was planing way up too high to stay in the main channel
on both of
them.
San Diego does not have what I would call "really gusty" winds that
require extreme
stability and range, so for the conditions there, a camless, that has as
much, or more,
low end power, is easier to rig, and has very nearly the same range,
will do very
nicely I would think. Next time I'm there I will be sure to only bring
the big Retro's.
Then I can be the first on planing again, only this time on a camless
sail.
Regards, Roger
Graff J431
I don't like the way you must fight those(big, non-cambered) things, contantly
re- tune them to a nauseating extent, or worse rerig to something smaller when
a decent northwesterly is kicking in. They simply lack the stability. I never
see the larger ones on the water anymore when the conditions are anything but
ultra light. Only the smaller ones. All I see is larger cambered Nitros,
Prydes, Simmers, XT, and, etc. when it is good. There is a reason for that.
With the stability and range of the racesail you can push it harder, go faster,
have more fun and not have to fuss with that darn thing so much! I just wish
it hadn't cost me $$$ to find the above out.
The flying weight of a modern race sail is fine with me. Yeah, a crank is
a good idea for rigging and fine tuning them, but I can't say they are
difficult to rig. They will point. My RX-1 has great low end, the latest
generation of racesails are even better. The NX may be right there with them.
But, I have not seen it.
The Neil Pryde sales rep thought San Diego Was on the gusty side when it was
decent. I think it is too. V-8's are also very popular here. And,
my findings about non-cambered sails surprised me. But the racesails just do
too many things better for me.
Dave
Steven Slaby
> Roger,
> I don't like the way you must fight those(big, non-cambered) things, contantly
> re- tune them to a nauseating extent, or worse rerig to something smaller when
> a decent northwesterly is kicking in. They simply lack the stability. I never
Dave,
Did you try a big retro ? I have had a 9.5 & 7.5 Retro for a couple of years
and have been very surprised by the amount of wind I can take it out in and
have a good time without fighting the sail. In the beginning I had some
problems when using it on a very *very* small lake that was incredibly
gusty, but some additional outhaul to reduce the luff from inflating /
contracting too much solved it.
I also used my Retros in the Canadian Formula Championships a couple weeks
ago; my biggest problems were keeping the board on the water (large chop)
and the downwind runs. When reaching to the windward mark I was about in
the middle of the pack and I was the *only* one on a camless sail.
Endo
I don't believe this big no-cam sail nonsense either.
There is a hugely disproportionate amount of large sail no-cam
postings on this newsgroup. There seems to be a few very strong
supports who actively post there opinions about no-cam sails as if
they were the greatest thing since monofilm.
The fact is, I can count the number of 7.5m+ of no-cam sails I've seen
on the water in the last year on one hand!
If you REALLY want to know what works, all you need to do is take a
look at what other sailors are using in your area. Talk is cheap on
the intenet. I tend to believe the guy on the water that laid out $500
rather than a few biased internet product pushers.
That being said, what am I doing still reading all these comments in
this newsgroup if I don't believe it? Well, I look at it the same way
as I do my windmeter. I take reading, look at what I see on the water,
and then rig my sail. It's all information. It's up to you to figure
out what's true and what's crap.
Endo