Board hall of fame
Endo
it and why?
Endo
WARDOG
one yet...
I'll mention this one, though....The 8'7" Bassett trifin would be at the
top of the list for range, construction, versatility, at a loss to tweak
it or improve it, in it's current incarnation.
Based on what we know now about volume distribution, rails, bottom
configs and width....the following would be a few of the production
candidates that I owned:
* Windsurfer One Design: (My first true love) Everyone had the same
board and sail back then which made for fun competitions.
* Tiga 254 Wave: way ahead of it's time with width, smooth ride, and
durability.
Worked great in light air.
* Tiga 260: Fast and loved to jump....worked great in the Gorge and on
S.F. Bay
Don't remember getting passed on this one.
* Hi-Tech 9'0" : Ultralight and very fast.....jumped the sh*t out of
it...still see this board at the lake.
* Seatrend 8'8" A.T.V. : One of the first "No-noses"...Took some
companies 2 years before they toned down the "elf shoe" nose like
Randy French did, right off the bat.
* Fanatic Boa : At 8'10", double concave, and wingers this was a fast
and turny light air wave board. Jumped well. Unfortunately it had
seamed comstruction and couldn't stand up to the kind of aerial abuse
I dished out on it. Went through 3 of them. Nothing at the time could
touch the Boa for what I was using it for. Hideous graphics ,that just
got worse.
* Starboard Go: Right board at the right time. Made windsurfing easy and
fun to learn for ANYONE.
* Naish 8'3 poly wave board: All time classic template, thin tail, ultra
smooth ride..full sinker...my first real "shortboard".
This board kept me holding in while I went through the high wind phase
of my sailing life...Cali Coast, Gorge, Oregon Coast...still have
it....trophy board.
WARDOG
http://surfingsports.com
Peter Berkey
list. This 9'6" rainbow colored board is sorta like the Calypso... I call
it my "Queen Mary". Ahh yes... if it could talk, it would tell many a
story of amazing journeys. Built by some custom board maker in Florida in
the mid 80's, it's been with me sailing the gorge going on 10 years now. I
bought it used for $250 from some gal who was moving to some non-windsurfing
place (perhaps Mars?) When it finally retires, I will certainly frame it
with a plaque that reads:
"Come hell or high winds, she served me well".
--Peter Berkey
"Endo" <sws...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck3vltgglqhc9ujjv...@4ax.com...
westoz
"Endo" <sws...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck3vltgglqhc9ujjv...@4ax.com...
charlesivey
1. Original windsurfer
2. GO
Why: The original windsurfer more or less started the sport, no brainer.
While the trend to the "get wide and easier" movement did not begin with the
GO, the GO came along and somehow made it possible to learn and to progress
fast enough to cause more people to stay with the sport with semi-shortboard
skills. The popular Techno and the Bees had set the stage, after other
pioneers tried, but the GO really was easier and could perform. This in
effect has caused a discovery of windsurfing for many and a return to
windsurfing for others -- a rebirth of the sport for people and places. The
GO was most unorthodox -- it was a shock to all that saw it. It was
completely from left field. People had made attempts at something like it,
but it was the GO that actually made it over the hump into the public as an
acceptable board to learn upon and then continue learning more skills, even
in lighter wind areas, due to its stability and early planing. It may not
have sold the most numbers, but it caused fundamental change.
Just another opinion...
CI
Rainman
The original Windsurfer One Design, with teak boom and wooden centreboard.
The best thing to happen to sailing......ever!!
The Mistral Equipe. The original 'high-performance' race-board.
The Ulladulla [local brand] polyester bump and jump board.
[I still have mine hanging in the garage].
The Gorge Animal Bonzer. Best rough-water board on the planet.
R.
Mike F
that it took this long for the self-jibing E-Rock to come up. A bud raced
his in light air, learned to loop on it, and everything in between.
Mike \m/
"westoz" <wes...@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3b60...@quokka.wn.com.au...
Roy Tansill
board to come with an RAF rig. Robbins egg blue-green, red & yellow motion
graphics, and a center board that was little more than a placebo, fast
boards in their day.
Roger Nightingale
It had AVS before AVS. It looked like a Formula, before there was Formula.
And if 3 fins was good, then 4 must be better.
--
Roger Nightingale
Associate Research Professor
Department of Biomedical Engineering
Duke University
WARDOG
Only rode it once...it felt too advanced for me at the time...;-)
w.....
Elliot
For Gorge conditions Open Ocean 8'2" & 7'11" are the best boards I
ever had the pleasure of sailing.
Elliot
Bryan Lewis
Bonzer & my Mistral 263 Wave Concept.
Bryan Lewis
"Roger Nightingale" <r...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:3B602208...@duke.edu...
hugh
Windglider - why on earth did the IYRU pick this thing
Dufour Wing - there were SOOO many
Lechner - there were SOOO few
Tiga Gun - the start of something new
F2 Sunset Slalom - a classic
Mistral Screamer - THE classic
Tiga 260 - bend me squeeze me, anyway you want me, go fast or bash me...
Bic Electric Rock - ditto
Bic Astro Rock - ditto but bigger
Alpha Raceboard - blew everything away for a year then fell apart
Mistral IMCO - still crazy after all these years
Bic SpeedNeedle - is this a recreational board or what?
Tiga Wave 257 - see Tiga 260, but for waves
Almost any Copello slalom board from the early 90's - are you brave enough?
just for starters
Nowadays maybe too soon to say...but candidates are
Starboard Go
Bic Techno 283
Hugh
"Endo" <sws...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck3vltgglqhc9ujjv...@4ax.com...
RMoore 41
>Date: 7/25/01 8:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ck3vltgglqhc9ujjv...@4ax.com>
>
>If you had a windsurfing board hall of fame, which boards would you in
>it and why?
MY HALL OF FAME OR SHAME
Longboards
Mistral Superlight The original. Probably the fastest under 10kt. board ever
made and would still be competitive at most multiclass events where there would
be light air races.
Slalom boards
F2 Sunset Slalom mid to late eighties version. Short, wide, vee bottom and a
little concave. Great BAF board, quick to plane and turny.
Mistral Screamer 1 late eighties. The one with the "speed dent" on the bottom.
Not sure if the dent did anything but sales hype, but the board had a
wonderfully smooth ride and a powerful jibbing machine that could handle a
variety of conditions.
Speed slalom
Mistral Energy XR early nineties. The hype was that "it can't jibe". I had a
couple of these and I used a finworks H12 fin and I thought the board turned
OK. But the board was blazingly fast and was the ultimate drag racer. Probably
if you could still find anXR alive it would still be the ultimate drag racer.
Giant Slalom
Zantos 295 Big turny and first easy to sail non daggerboard hulls
Explosion 295 same as above
Chop hoppers
Doug Haut chop hoppers. Probably the first full on custom board builder to make
a cross of a slalom board and a wave board and made a lot of them over the
years in various sizes but all under 9'. People can blah, blah, blah about
Bonzers, open ocean and cascade, but these are the real deal.
Wave boards
Mistral Eruption 253 and 257. sweet and durable, they should still be making
them.
Wideboards
Bic Techno how many of these have been sold? stared the whole trend.
Race boards
Anything that has Mike's Lab written of it.
Mike F
Mike \m/
"Roger Nightingale" <r...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:3B602208...@duke.edu...
Peter B
WARDOG <moon...@gte.net> wrote in message news:3B5FA04D...@gte.net...
>
> * Tiga 260: Fast and loved to jump....worked great in the Gorge and on
> S.F. Bay
> Don't remember getting passed on this one.
Fully endorsed. Best fun per pound/dollar I've ever had.
Pete.
Will Vasquez
Newman Darby's first sailboard - forgot what he called it - should
certainly be mentioned - at least as a footnote. It's remarkably
similar in shape as the START (like a big door) Hmm, wonder how that
happend?
I have a video I purchased directly from him and you should see the kind
of freestyle sail-handling he was doing! Way, way before his time.
That video is a collector's piece.
I also saw his work at the Smithsonian in Wash. DC. Pretty neat to see
the origin of windsurfing (free-sail system) at our Nation's Capital
with all the other inventions.
Wardog is right on about the Bassett: My 8'8" Basset tri-fin, with a
range from 7.4M down to 4.2 - Flat water lake sailing to mast-high waves
- it's hard to beat that kind of range.
I'd have to say it's a board for the ages. Wish more of you
"long-timers" could try one out.
-Will-
KarabaszJP
Bic ERock, Astro Rock
Mistral Screamer
Starboard GO
Windsurfer Original
Windglider
But you are all forgetting the board (production wise) that started this wide
board trend and still is a GREAT board today the FANATIC BEE 289 (or 144). With
out the success of this board we might all be ridding needles today and praying
for at least 20 knots just to move
AD.
> S.F. Bay
> Don't remember getting passed on this one.
The Tiga 260 was my first choice too. Even though the fin boxes seemed
to fail easily. By the time they had bolt thru boxes, the shape was
getting a little dated (still good though).
And although I never sailed either, I'd include the Windsurfer One
Design and the Mistral Equipe/IMCO/etc.
And for local kiwi boards, I'd have to say the Blake's Spirit and the
White Lite 903.
Cheers
Anton
Mike F
ridden that gear at length in the conditions it was designed for. Is that
the case here?
Mike \m/
"RMoore 41" <rmoo...@aol.com> wrote
> People can blah, blah, blah about
> Bonzers, Open Ocean and Cascade, but [Hauts] are the real deal.
Weed Fin
Rocket 99
F2 Bullet
F2 Sunset
Juri Munkki
>But you are all forgetting the board (production wise) that started this wide
>board trend and still is a GREAT board today the FANATIC BEE 289 (or 144). With
>out the success of this board we might all be ridding needles today and praying
>for at least 20 knots just to move
I have one and like it a lot. (The key to really liking a board you have is
to never try anything better unless you are willing to spend more money...)
Still, I think the trend started in course racing. The Bee was probably the
first or one of the first wide freeride boards to hit the market, but it's
just an adaptation of the flapper board concept that was used for racing
a few years ago.
It's not like this is ancient history or anything: mine is from the first
season they were produced and I bought it in 1999.
Speaking of ancient history: I sailed my Mistral Competition today. It was
made in 1979 or 1980 and it was my first board in 1980. (I was 13 at the
time.) I still use it for teaching windsurfing to my friends. I think a
Go or Start would be more appealing, but since I don't have either of those,
I think the Competition is more appropriate for basic lessons than my Bee 289.
I have a book that compares the original Windglider with the Competition.
The Competition has most of its volume and width near the back of the
board whereas the Windglider was exactly the opposite.
(BTW, I learned on Windgliders and Dufours. I can't say that I liked them
much - I think at the time the Competition was a good choice for me.)
--
Juri Munkki jmu...@iki.fi What you see isn't all you get.
http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki Windsurfing: Faster than the wind.
Juri Munkki
>The Tiga 260 was my first choice too. Even though the fin boxes seemed
>to fail easily. By the time they had bolt thru boxes, the shape was
>getting a little dated (still good though).
I have had a few Tiga boards in my time. I was offered a used 260 at a
very good price, but I turned it down and chose the more conventionally
built 280. In hindsight, a very bad choice, as that board was pretty
awful. The slotted fin didn't spin out, but it didn't go fast either.
My next Tiga was the 270. It was Tiga's response to the F2 Sputnik -
fast and gunny. No regrets about that one. Another awful stock fin
though (no slot, but highly prone to spin out). I was lucky enough
to buy a Rainbow V2 G10 blade for this board. It was probably the
best blade fin of its time. Truly excellent.
My last Tiga was the 268. Like the Bee 289, it was one of those early
boards that showed new design trends. Not as fast as the 270, but a
lot more user friendly and much more versatile. Yet another bad stock
fin, but I was used to that already.
I still have this board in my basement and haven't quite decided if I
want to keep it as a spare for my JP Freeride or sell it. It seems to
me that used equipment prices in Finland are almost too low to justify
the trouble of selling used equipment.
It would probably make a great first high/medium wind board, but by the
time someone is interested in a board like this, they have been
brainwashed to think that anything older than 3 years must be absolute
crap and aren't willing to pay enough for it. (Same thing goes for two
extra sails that I have...)
Mike F
the same era (early 90s), which cost under $600 and, IMO, outperformed the
257 by a small but noticeable margin in every performance factor I could
think of to compare them in.
We think alike on the Copello, too. That was a rocketship with an attitude.
Mike \m/
"hugh" <shnosp...@frenospame.fr> wrote in
Mark H.
used it as a benchmark board for a while with which to compare performance
of other boards near its class.
Wayler boards - particularly the One-Design, which was also kind of a
starter one-design class. And the Ypsi, a relatively popular choice at the
time.
Mark H.
The Bronx
dean
RadE
The first board made for Fun-sailing.
Further Rocket 88
Browning Slalom GUN
Tiga Gun
.......
--
RadE
Life's a beach
Endo <sws...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck3vltgglqhc9ujjv...@4ax.com...
Mike F
even get it across the River dry.
2. That thing Costco/Walmart sold in about 1982, which routinely sunk within
a couple of days.
Mike \m/
"dean" <dxtra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:662c8132.01072...@posting.google.com...
RMoore 41
Doug Haut in Santa Cruz has been a pioneer in both high performance surfing and
user friendly sailboards since the get go and was doing business before these
other builders were even a figment of someones imagination. I think if you
compare numbers he will be way out in front. I have sailed Bonzers and open
ocean boards in decent conditions but only as a try me. They sail good. The
bottomline is that the title of this post was "hall of fame" and my opinion was
that since Doug Haut has been in the polyester market longer than anybody else
and is still surviving, he is king. I'll bet that twenty years from now there
will still be a Haut Surf Shop in Santa Cruz and you will be able to get a Haut
Chop Hopper. The others will probably just be a memory.
Peter B
The only board I owned that disappointed was a '88 Tiga Pro Race that I won,
it was just un-competitive against the likes of Equipes, Lightnings and
Cats.
Pete.
MTVNewsGuy
me in five minutes.
And ah yes, the first of the wide boards, the predecessor to the Start and the
Go, that Newman Darby board!
Somewhere online there is a clip of the freestyle sailing you refer to...it's
amazing.
Will wrote<<
-Will-
>>
Michael
US5613
Weed Fin
No Nose
JW
"dean" <dxtra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:662c8132.01072...@posting.google.com...
Mike F
Mike \m/
"JW" <Sp...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:YKk87.3376$rs3.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Mike F
exceptions (God, but that 8-6 or so ProTech friggin' FLEW, whether on the
water or in the air). Thank goodness I never had to slog it.
Mike \m/
"Weed Fin" <wee...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010727163312...@ng-ct1.aol.com...
Roy Tansill
to never try anything better unless you are willing to spend more money...)
you'll never see advice that good in a magazine!
Timhogan3
The version I sail (1998) was made from either '97 or '98 until (I think) 2000.
Bic did some strange re-naming of at least one board I know of (ie a Vivace
270 from one year becomes a Veloce 270 of the next year, even though it was
not similar to the rest of the Veloce's, or something like that).
The recent Saxo 270 is heavy (like a lot of Bic's) , but easy to sail, durable,
slalom oriented, and pretty fast. In my opinion it is very similar to the
Veloce 278 (which a lot of people liked), except with thinner rails, more
scoop, and more suited to water with texture, and easier to keep on the water
in high wind. (I owned and sailed both boards).
(Not to be defensive.. I am sure there are better boards out there for various
preferences)
BTW... If you are talking about the latest version of this board when you say:
"..complete crap..", why do you think it is crap, and what board would be
better and why? (Not to be argumentative... I really am interested).
Tim
Benjamin Kaufman
Ben
David R. Fielder
be an icon of sorts for many as their first short board. I have only fond
memories, as mine was stolen. Of course, with modern design changes, it's
probably best that way.....
David
Mike F wrote:
> The Bonzer recommendation comes as no surprise, but what DOES surprise me is
> that it took this long for the self-jibing E-Rock to come up. A bud raced
> his in light air, learned to loop on it, and everything in between.
>
Mike F
set up to run one, two, or three fins. Its problem was that strong gusts --
gusts that wouldn't bother any other board but that era's Stealth -- just
knocked it sideways out from under me. It sailed fine powered mildly, but
simply switched lanes in gusts. It wasn't so much a spinout as just a meter
or two of sudden lateral translation. It just didn't track well with the OEM
fin. It was meant to be more of a wave-oriented board, apparently more
suitable to modestly-powered small-wave-sailing than powered-up reaching.
Your version sounds quite different, and may not even relate except in name.
It felt VERY different from the Veloces and Vivaces of that era. I've not
sailed a Saxo since that one.
Sorry to have concerned you.
Mike \m/
"Timhogan3" <timh...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010728120946...@mb-mf.news.cs.com...
JW
Please don't get too mad but I just hate the board. I think mine is a '98.
I can't do anything with the board. I've been sailing for about 18 years so
I've got a little experience sailing (no bragging just not a newbie). It's
just completely squirrelly and unmanageable for me. I'm very picky and set
in my sailing ways though. As always, everybody's tastes are different.
One person's dream board may be another's brick!
"Timhogan3" <timh...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010728120946...@mb-mf.news.cs.com...
Timhogan3
problems with the board, but on the other hand, I still can't plane all the way
through my jibes! I am always open to a demo on something that could improve
my sailing. Thanks,
Tim
>Subject: Re: Saxo 270 (Board hall of fame)
>From: "JW" Sp...@spam.com
>Date: 7/30/01 1:22 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <MY697.794$jL6.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
JW
the right board. My A-Rock was the best board I've ever sailed. I've
gotten a Carve 111 but I have not had the chance to really use it yet. The
couple of times I have used it I have not liked it. The new designs with
the floatation centered more towards the rear of the board are not to my
liking. I find that I am to light to really sink the tail down and set the
gybes quickly. It seems the board wants to stay on top of the chop and
bounce longer than I'd like it to. The we have in S. FL is very nasty
though. Most people like the newer designs so I think it is just my sailing
preference for the older style shapes.
"Timhogan3" <timh...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010730214858...@mb-mf.news.cs.com...
Krzysztof Mruk
Sp...@spam.com wrote on 31-07-01 4:36:
> Most people like the newer designs so I think it is just my sailing
> preference for the older style shapes.
I think that you should try the new Bic Techno Evolution 263 - it has modern
volume distribution around center, not the rear part, so you will still have
thin rails around the tail. I had Bic Astro Rock and Saxo 270 as well, but
the new Techno gybes as smooth and easy as nothing I've sailed.
Regards
Krzysztof Mruk
Poland
JayR
high wind what the starboard START is to light wind. It makes a good
learning platform into the sinker/hi-wind arena.
I have a '98 I bought in '99 as a leftover. Two years later it has given me
the TOW in hi-wind conditions to gain the board and sail handling experience
I needed without being locked in pure survivor mode. 'Control in messy
conditions' was what I was looking for, I actually got the feedback from the
group that the Saxo was exactly that board before I bought it.
I will say after this summer I am now ready to 'take off the training
wheels' and move on to something looser and lighter. The outboard rear foot
straps just don't cut it in thigh high breaking swell with a solid 25
gusting to 35.
-Jay
On 7/28/01 12:09 PM, in article
20010728120946...@mb-mf.news.cs.com, "Timhogan3"
<timh...@cs.com> wrote:
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Ellen Faller
I'm curious about your mention of being too light to sink the tail and
gybe quickly. I've sailed an Astro Rock (late '89 to '91), a bunch of
other boards in between, and now a Carve 111. The curiosity is 1) about
how weight comes into this, and 2) why you are sinking the tail of the
board to gybe.
First, I'm a female, and at the lighter weight end of the scale
compared to most guys, but perhaps heavier than smaller females who also
sail the Carve 111. Those of us who do planing/carving jibes on it seem
to have no problem with jibing it, and in fact, find it quite a nice
board to jibe/gybe due to the design of the rails. Since I can jibe a
240 liter Start, or a 175 Formula, I really don't think weight has much
to do with it. Looking at the board, the volume seems to be centered
just back of the mast track and not too far back on the board,
especially compared to the more no-nose type designs.
As for sinking the tail, perhaps this was a typo and you meant sinking
the "rail" instead? Sinking the tail of the board is one sure way to
kill most any jibe aside from a snap-type jibe. One's technique and how
one sinks the leeward rail can make the difference in successful jibing.
Lack of commitment, how, when and where you weight the rail, etc. are
all problems with jibes. I know that my jibes are better on port to
starboard because my right foot/leg is the better one and I have better
control than turning the other way. I discovered this when jibing a
widestyle board with a short broad fin which was less forgiving of
improper commitment. One direction worked, the other was bouncing out.
This gave me something to work on, and it's now much better.
As you say, chop adds challenge to the jibes too, and thus it is even
more critical to engage the rail properly when jibing.
The Astro Rock is a classic board, but it may be that your technique
is totally adjusted to sailing it. Perhaps the new board is simply
bringing out somethin in your technique that a little practice will take
care of. We've all had to adjust to new gear and it often takes a few
sessions. It may just be "different" as opposed to "not good". One can't
"buy" jibing, as the "driver" is pretty important in the equation.
Ellen
Mike F
It's a shame, IMO, that today's trend to straps on the rails, giant blade
fins, and fat tails has denied so many of you the chance to experience the
joys of maneuvering at speed in any terrain in complete control. That trend
is so limiting, whereas a single, centered rear strap, a more versatile fin
with some curve to it, and a smaller tail open the world of windsurfing wide
open to greater experimentation in any pond that gets some noticeable chop
and 20 mph of wind. Sure, these features cost a bit of upwind speed and add
to planing thresholds, but there's more to windsurfing than upwind speed
even in Iowa.
Makes me glad I "grew up" on center straps, curvy fins, and thin tails
before the modern trend started, so I was able to try both styles before
choosing one over the other. Sure, I planed later, but it brings a tear to
my eyes to see these newer folks in some of the best swell the Gorge has to
offer, just sailin' straight across these giant rollers as though it was
flat water, aiming at the same shoreline rock all the way across the river,
and yet they're STILL getting passed and outpointed by folks who are curvin'
and slashin' and jumpin' WHILE passing them. Sure, ability, preferences,
available wind and TOW are factors, which is fine, but an awful lot of it is
simply the mindset influenced by off-center straps, fins best suited to
straight lines, and tails better suited to early planing than to tracking in
rough water. I get the honest impression from both talking to them and
watching them sail that many of them would love to deviate from the railroad
track, but just don't have the board control to do that (at their skill
level) because their equipment hampers deviations.
This rant is intended simply as yet one more attempt to encourage anyone who
gets 18 mph of wind to consider adding some board to their pile which has
only three straps, has a fin with no straight lines (a la fish and
porpoises), and has thinner and softer rails, all of which greatly enhance
control in rough terrain. These boards still go upwind just fine and still
go fast enough to scare anyone, yet add two whole dimensions to windsurfing
by putting the SURF back into windsurfing. More options almost always beats
fewer options. If I had a drag racer, I'd still, also, want a Jeep and a van
and a Boxster.
Jay is catching on to the variety available, and it's going to expand his
windsurfing horizons and options immensely. And he doesn't need that 25-35
wind; it starts with enough wind to power up a 6.5 and a few knee-high
swells and a board with three straps. Just one correction, though, Jay:
training wheels can be part and parcel of looseness. Two (or three, or five)
fins are often a vital part of exceptional maneuverability and control.
Mike \m/
"JayR" <jay...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B78ADA33.22AE%jay...@hotmail.com...
JW
I should have worded it differently to take the assumption out of the
statement. The weight issue comes into play with the wider more volume
tails. The heavier sailors have an easier time controlling with the
leverage they have (I can gybe my Go board no problem too. I'm not using
the Go board with 5 and 6 meter sails in 20 Kts + winds which is where the
extra weight will help to keep the board in the water and dig in earlier in
the nasty chop we get here.) It could be a technique thing with my likes
and dislikes for the Carve. I could sail the Astro Rock with my eyes
closed. I could gybe that board on one foot, jumping up and down, patting
my head, playing a tuba. (Not really but you should catch my drift.) You
need to take a chill pill. I never said the Carve was no good. I said I
was not liking it too much. I also said It just may be my tastes. There is
nothing wrong with the board construction or quality wise, except for the
non skid all the way up to the nose. It does a good job sanding the
monofilm down on sails. I personally don't think that just because the
manufactures say I need a wider tail, volume more towards rear board, that I
actually need one. If I don't like the shape, I don't like it. I think the
board should fit my sailing style since I'm paying $1000 for it. I
shouldn't have to completely change my style to fit the board, which is why
I'm saying I may not like the Carve. (I know there is a better board out
there. Better matched to my sailing technique and desires.) Demo the board
before you buy it is my new motto. No more believing the hype. End of
story.
"Ellen Faller" <eleanor...@yale.edu> wrote in message
news:3B66EB34...@yale.edu...
Ellen Faller
I had only your words to go by and I was asking for some
clarification. Trust me, I see far too many people sinking the tail of
the board when they jibe to find that an unusual event. I get several
requests per weekend about just this problem. That, and unlearning bad
habits practiced in sailing over many years. It may be an instructor
thing.
My thought was that it was a technique thing rather than a board
thing, because jibing in chop is more difficult. One really needs to
commit to that rail. There is an excellent section in Peter Hart's Carve
Clinic 2 video about just this issue.
I sail lots of different boards, and demo whatever I can when I can,
and I know it takes some getting used to when moving from one design to
another. My choice of wording was not to put words in your mouth about
the boards which is why I deliberately used words that you had not used.
Taking a chill pill may be more for you since you seem to have taken
some offense that was not intended. In fact, I used "not good" implying
a personal review impression, and did not use "no good" as you state,
and you seem to have read into the meaning there.
You've said you are a picky sailor and set in your sailing ways. I'm
suggesting that you try something a little different from time to time
and see all the other ways that things can be done, and how other
boards, maybe only one or two, do them. We may run out of used Astro
Rocks someday. For that matter, I have a friend who has one that he's
eager to unload for $75. Let me know. Perhaps we can get you together.
Ellen
JW
suggesting that you try something a little different from time to time
and see all the other ways that things can be done, and how other
boards, maybe only one or two, do them<<<
Thanks! Thats what I've been saying and feeling for last 2 months. That I
haven't really gotten to use the carve that much but so far I don't really
like it compared to other boards I've sailed and that I need to sail a
couple more, including more of my Carve, before deciding whether or not to
dump it (I wonder if that is a record for a run on sentence?) Thanks for
the info on used A-Rock but I'm really looking for a newer board (years
wise) that will sail close to the way my A-Rock did.
"Ellen Faller" <eleanor...@yale.edu> wrote in message
news:3B66FEC2...@yale.edu...
Endo
Give the Carve a chance. It took me a while to get used to it but I
believe I am now a better sailor.
It does mean a change of riding style. It was not too hard for me
since I've only been sailing 1 year so I don't have too many habits
yet. I imagine it must be hard to adjust if you're used to a narrow
tail board.
The Carve 111 does have quite a bit of planing surface back near the
straps. This is what your feeling when you say you can't sink the
tail. The board is designed for freestyle so the tail is wide to pop
you off the chop. If you're in big chop and try to jibe, it can give
you a wild ride! The trick I found is to get your front hand WAY
forward to keep the nose down in turns.
If you wanted a slalom board....you bought the wrong board. You should
stick to the 58cm wide and 270cm long variety (although they are
getting hard to find).
Don't give up on it. It seems all boards are going this way so you'll
have to adjust sometime.
Endo
JW
a very long chance since it'll take me a while to pay off the credit cards I
used to buy the Carves!!! I'm glad someone out there can understand what I
am trying to say. (I know I'm not the best at describing things!) We've
got a tropical disturbance heading in so I hope I'll have favorable
conditions to use my Carves.
Good winds!
JW
"Endo" <sws...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2anemtgq91hhrku62...@4ax.com...
Wolfgang Soergel
>
> The one I referred to was the original early-90s model, roughly a 260 or so
> set up to run one, two, or three fins. Its problem was that strong gusts --
> gusts that wouldn't bother any other board but that era's Stealth -- just
> knocked it sideways out from under me. It sailed fine powered mildly, but
> simply switched lanes in gusts. It wasn't so much a spinout as just a meter
> or two of sudden lateral translation. It just didn't track well with the OEM
> fin. It was meant to be more of a wave-oriented board, apparently more
> suitable to modestly-powered small-wave-sailing than powered-up reaching.
> Your version sounds quite different, and may not even relate except in name.
> It felt VERY different from the Veloces and Vivaces of that era. I've not
> sailed a Saxo since that one.
>
the concept of twin fins (then at vogue with waveboards, a bit
specialized and different to sail but not too bad. Bics Saxo 253 and
Mistrals Concept line 253 opened eyes to how loose a production
waveboard could be. Production wave boards before that time where mostly
still something we'd consider freeride or b&j shapes thes days, no real
waveboards. Today, most manufacturers offer 5 or more boards which pass
as real wave boards) up to larger boards. Didn't really work, but i knew
several people who used the board to some satisfaction as a middle wind
b&j board on lake and small wave conditions, with only the center fin
(and the probabely not the stock fin). he Saxo 270 then replaced that
board in 96 or 97. And for the first year's model, i indeed never heard
anything good about that board. Apparently too much rocker and generally
an unbalanced shape, in addition to the heavy weight. The board then was
quietly reshaped for the next years and in that version it seems to be
an acceptable 6.0 board with typical "Bic properties": cheap, heavy,
relatively durable, easy to sail,...
--
Wolfgang
JPCWNDSFR
polyester custom camoflaged (sic) to look like an epoxy board. Still have it.
Richard Whyte raced a similar board for Hifly team. What ever happend to
him??
Rocket 88, white poly beauty with red lexan center fin and two orange
thrusters. Wave rocker, flat to slight tail vee, with zero tail thickness.
Shaped by Mike Waltze for Maui...unfortunately I needed a board shaped by Mike
Waltze for a midwestern pond.
Package came with 55 sf (no meters then) maui sails pin head, with ws logo.
Weed Fin
a
polyester custom camoflaged (sic) to look like an epoxy board. Still have it.
Richard Whyte raced a similar board for Hifly team. What ever happend to
him??>>
Aaah... the good ole' days. I remember Richard Whyte and his yellow Highfly Gun
at the Stroh's race series at Fort Adams in Newport, R.I. back in 1986. I
actually have pictures of that board, along with Whyte, Robbie Naish, Maui
Myer, Peter Cabrhina <sp>, Matt Schweitzer and others I can't recall at this
moment. As for Richard Whyte, last I heard he was back on Oahu sailing now and
then.
JPCWNDSFR
it would be interesting for some magazine to do a retro-spective or "what ever
happend to??" type deal on lesser know folks. Nothing against Robby, and Pete
etc, but there are lots of great sailors who contributed in the hey days.
I guess I'm just curious and want to hear that they are still stoked like me
(in my late 30's)
BTW, I seem to never tire of a good mast or boom mount photos...do you remember
Angus Chater and his amazing mastmounts? Have not seen any as good in 20
years.
gpo
> In article <EP_77.807$ww1....@news02.tsnz.net> "AD." <an...@astarte.co.nz> writes:
> >The Tiga 260 was my first choice too. Even though the fin boxes seemed
> >to fail easily. By the time they had bolt thru boxes, the shape was
> >getting a little dated (still good though).
>
> I have had a few Tiga boards in my time. I was offered a used 260 at a
> very good price, but I turned it down and chose the more conventionally
> built 280. In hindsight, a very bad choice, as that board was pretty
> awful. The slotted fin didn't spin out, but it didn't go fast either.
>
> My next Tiga was the 270. It was Tiga's response to the F2 Sputnik -
> fast and gunny. No regrets about that one. Another awful stock fin
> though (no slot, but highly prone to spin out). I was lucky enough
> to buy a Rainbow V2 G10 blade for this board. It was probably the
> best blade fin of its time. Truly excellent.
>
> My last Tiga was the 268. Like the Bee 289, it was one of those early
> boards that showed new design trends. Not as fast as the 270, but a
> lot more user friendly and much more versatile. Yet another bad stock
> fin, but I was used to that already.
>
> I still have this board in my basement and haven't quite decided if I
> want to keep it as a spare for my JP Freeride or sell it. It seems to
> me that used equipment prices in Finland are almost too low to justify
> the trouble of selling used equipment.
>
> It would probably make a great first high/medium wind board, but by the
> time someone is interested in a board like this, they have been
> brainwashed to think that anything older than 3 years must be absolute
> crap and aren't willing to pay enough for it. (Same thing goes for two
> extra sails that I have...)
Tiga 263 gets my vote. I weigh 175 & have sailed with a 3.7
comfortably, as well as 7.0!!(honest!). Needs steady wind, but I
haven't sailed an easier shtick in powered, rough water conditions.
Weed Fin
<<it would be interesting for some magazine to do a retro-spective or "what
ever
happend to??" type deal on lesser know folks. Nothing against Robby, and Pete
etc, but there are lots of great sailors who contributed in the hey days.
I guess I'm just curious and want to hear that they are still stoked like me
(in my late 30's)
BTW, I seem to never tire of a good mast or boom mount photos...do you remember
Angus Chater and his amazing mastmounts? Have not seen any as good in 20
years.>>
Angus was a soul surfer, waterman, artist, and all around nice guy. He didn't
dig the way the windsurf scene was headed and checked out early. I too, miss
his mastmount shots.
There's a few of the old timers, Richard Whyte, Craig Yester, Peter Trombly,
Harold "Iggy" Ige that are still sailing Back Yards, on the North Shore of
Oahu.
Here's a good article about them and others: