Sony SVHS SLV-R1000, SVO-2000, SLV-R2000? (Panasonic AG-1980?)
Bill Davidson
To sum up past postings on this subject: I've been looking for a good
SVHS VCR and my leading contender has been the Sony SLV-R1000 but then
Marine Park, Abe's of Maine and Family Photo all started carrying ads
for an SLV-R2000. When I called about a month ago, Marine Park said it
was a mistake, Abe's of Maine said call back in two weeks, and Family
Photo said call back in three weeks. I called today; hoping that CES
might have shed some light.
Abe's of Maine said to call back in three weeks.
Family Photo said they had no idea when it would be out.
Nobody has any information.
I called Sony again last week and they again said that the SLV-R1000 is
their consumer SVHS for the year. I'm beginning to believe them. I'm
also beginning to think that the SLV-R2000 listing in these ads is just
a bait and switch gag.
I've seen no less than THREE new Sony decks in stores in the last
couple of weeks. All three are middle of the line VHS decks that have
new features for interfacing with DSS units among other minor features.
These new decks are not on the Sony WWW page.
I talked to a sales lady at Good Guys and she said that normally when
Sony discontinues an old model they clear out their warehouse and she
doesn't believe anything like that is going on with the SLV-R1000. I
suppose it's possible they could carry two SVHS decks in their line but
I doubt it. Sony doesn't seem to like to have a lot of choices in
their top end.
The mail order price of the SLV-R1000 has dropped by over $100 in the
last six months. I wonder if that's an indication of the beginning
of closeout.
I'm not sure that if I see an SLV-R2000 that I might not still prefer
the SLV-R1000. I hope there's some left when the 2000 comes out if
that's the choice I want to make.
I've decided to also look into the Panasonic AG-1980. Maybe I can get
it to interface with my ED-Beta's Control-L. The AG-1980 has a 3D
adaptive comb filter and a Time Base Corrector. I'm not sure about the
convenience features though. I've called Panasonic and asked for the
brochure and should have that in about a week. It's a bit more
expensive (around $1200 mail order vs. $800 for the SLV-R1000).
--Bill Davidson
Bill Davidson
In article <4ofknm$4...@walter.cray.com>, Bill Davidson <bi...@cray.com> wrote:
>I've decided to also look into the Panasonic AG-1980. Maybe I can get
>it to interface with my ED-Beta's Control-L. The AG-1980 has a 3D
>adaptive comb filter and a Time Base Corrector. I'm not sure about the
>convenience features though. I've called Panasonic and asked for the
>brochure and should have that in about a week. It's a bit more
>expensive (around $1200 mail order vs. $800 for the SLV-R1000).
I've dissmissed the AG-1980. Apparently it's not possible to make the
edit controller in my EDV-9500 talk to it. Panasonic and Sony
apparently have no compatible control protocols. I'd have to go to an
external third party edit controller which supports both and which I
was trying to avoid. I also never got the brochure that I requested
from Panasonic. The AG-1980's also a bit pricey. I've found that it's
closer to $1300 from reputable sources.
So, I'm back to the SLV-R1000. I decided to go for it. I called
Camera World and they said they were out of stock and they didn't know
when they'd get more. The guy also said that he'd be suprised if I
could find one anywhere and tried to sell me a SVO-2000. I declined.
It felt like a bait and switch. That's the first time I've ever felt
that with CWO. I guess I'll just have to call them once a week until
they have one or until an SLV-R2000 or whatever does actually
materialize.
I did get a data sheet on the SLV-R1000 but it was just a laserprinted
page of stats and told me little that isn't in their web page already.
The Sony professional products guy I talked to though sent me way more
info that I needed. Besides a nice full color brochure on the SVO-2000
that I asked for, he sent me stuff about their nicer professional SVHS
products. I didn't really want that but I prefer too much information
to too little. For those that are interested in the differences
between the SLV-R1000 and the SVO-2000, here's what I've been able to
determine so far:
1. The SVO-2000 has independant left and right audio record level
controls, The SLV-R1000 only has a single audio record level
control. This favors the SVO-2000 for me but it's minor.
2. The SLV-R1000 has a mini-phono plug control-L port on the front.
The SVO-2000 instead has a 5 pin control port on the back for the
RM-250 edit controller. This port looks a lot like the 5 pin DIN
control-L port on my SLV-757 but I'm not sure if it actually is a
control-L port. I think it might be because the brochure gives the
pinout and one of the pins is labeled LANC. The pins are (1) DC
OUT, (2) CTL with DC, (3) EE out, (4) LANC signal, (5) GND. This
SVO-2000 for me if it's actually control-L. Otherwise it favors
the SLV-R1000. Either way it's minor.
3. The rear composite video inputs and outputs use BNC connectors
instead of RCA jacks on the SVO-2000. There is no RCA video output
with the SVO-2000 and there is one RCA video input on the front
panel. The SLV-R1000 has all the same video inputs and outputs
except all use RCA for the composite jacks. All are available in
s-video as well in both decks (3 sets of inputs and 2 sets of
outputs). This favors the SLV-R1000 and it's major.
4. The SVO-2000 has a key inhibit switch. This deactivates all keys so
that you don't mess up operations (say during a big assemble edit).
This is largely irrelevant to me.
5. The SVO-2000 has a headphone jack. The SLV-R1000 does not. This
favors the SVO-2000 for me but it's minor.
6. The SVO-2000 has both control-S input and control-S output. The
SLV-R1000 only has control-S input. This favors the SVO-2000 for
me and it's medium importance.
7. The SVO-2000 costs about $200 more than the SLV-R1000.
8. The SVO-2000 is easier to get via mail order.
The lack of RCA composite on the back is a big problem in my opinion.
If it weren't for that, I might just go ahead and get the SVO-2000.
The other advantages just aren't that important to me.
If Sony's listening, here's what I want:
A nice SVHS deck, much like the SLV-R1000 with the following additions:
(1) Full frame time base corrector. (2) All the nice consumer features
from their SLV-980HF like auto-clock, auto-id, Starsight etc. (3) The
Edit Monitor like I have on my SLV-757 and which the SLV-R5 also had.
(4) PIP like my SLV-757 has. (5) dual flying erase heads.
I'm not sure if I want a 3D comb filter. Reports of problems with the
Panasonic AG-1980's comb filter and my own experience looking at Sony's
top of the line 32" XBR^2 with a 3D filter make me wonder if it's worth
the extra money.
--Bill Davidson
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems
In article <4p23c6$9...@walter.cray.com>, bi...@cray.com (Bill Davidson) writes:
> [...]
> If Sony's listening, here's what I want:
>
> A nice SVHS deck, much like the SLV-R1000 with the following additions:
> (1) Full frame time base corrector. (2) All the nice consumer features
> from their SLV-980HF like auto-clock, auto-id, Starsight etc. (3) The
> Edit Monitor like I have on my SLV-757 and which the SLV-R5 also had.
> (4) PIP like my SLV-757 has. (5) dual flying erase heads.
>
> I'm not sure if I want a 3D comb filter. Reports of problems with the
> Panasonic AG-1980's comb filter and my own experience looking at Sony's
> top of the line 32" XBR^2 with a 3D filter make me wonder if it's worth
> the extra money.
It's wish list time!
I'd add (these again are using the 1000 as the base):
- A display with full-time clock (lacking from the 1000) and
which does not require you to open a stupid door to see most of what
is going on.
(By the way, the display in the 1000 appears to use the same sort of
EL panel backlight as my old Radio Shack Pro-2006 scanners. These EL
panels lose brightness over time. Replacement is not trivial. I hope
this ISN'T the same sort of EL panel.)
- A display that, when the VCR is off and in the timer mode, reads
out the day, time, channel, and speed of the next-due timer event. In
addition to the current time, of course.
- A much more rational remote control layout than the 1000. But
please, no "dumbed down" remotes. My JVC HRSC-1000-U has the best VCR
remote I've seen. The Sony R1000 remote can best be described as
"arcane".
- A real jog/shuttle control.
- A "goto time" feature to supplement the "index search".
- Rational programming of start and end times. Just because I start
entering a program item at 7:23, does not mean that I want the start
time to be preset to 7:23. If it has to initialize to something, 7:30
would be a better bet.
- Also, I want to be able to use the remote's numeric keypad, as well
as the up/down keys, for setting the various fields in the program
items -- it is stupid to have to "walk" the bloody thing from :23 to
:00 with the "down" key when a perfectly good numeric keypad is right
there on the control. (My ancient NEC 5000 can do this; why not
others?)
- A display indicator to tell me whether the unit is tracking the
HiFi sound track. Yes, I can tell by ear, but this is useful when I
have to take the machine in for alignment and demo the HiFi problems
at the repair shop, which is only equipped to play VCRs through the RF
connection to a TV with a 3" speaker, hence no stereo and crappy HF
response, HiFi or not. (Why do I want this? From long experience
getting JVC decks realigned, or trying to) (Then there was the shop
that tried to tell me that of course HiFi wasn't working, since there
was no HiFi possible in EP mode... a JVC factory authorized service
center, no less.. but that's another story)
I'm sure we'll all think of more.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet: j...@cmkrnl.com (JH645) CompuServe: 74140,2055
Bill Davidson
In article <1996Jun4.233519.6687@cmkrnl>, Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems <j...@cmkrnl.com> wrote:
> - A display that, when the VCR is off and in the timer mode, reads
>out the day, time, channel, and speed of the next-due timer event. In
>addition to the current time, of course.
I hadn't thought of that but it's nice. My EDV-9500 does this and I
like that feature a lot.
> - A real jog/shuttle control.
I forgot to write that one down. I meant to add it. I can also live
with frame advance buttons if a full jog shuttle adds too much cost.
I have the full jog on my EDV-9500 and it's nice but it's not too big
of a deal. As long as I can move a frame at a time, I'll be happy.
> - Also, I want to be able to use the remote's numeric keypad, as well
>as the up/down keys, for setting the various fields in the program
>items -- it is stupid to have to "walk" the bloody thing from :23 to
>:00 with the "down" key when a perfectly good numeric keypad is right
>there on the control. (My ancient NEC 5000 can do this; why not
>others?)
I never understood why they can't do this.
>I'm sure we'll all think of more.
Yep. Actually, I meant to add some of the SVO-2000 features like
independant left and right audio level control, headphone jack and
control-S output. I'd also like to see switchable antenna inputs like
Mits' SVHS deck has and like many of Sony's high end TV's have. I get
some stations better with a rabbit ears than with cable and I'd like to
have the deck automatically switch between them (right now I use an A/B
switch). A built-in assemble editor might also be nice. I love the
one in the EDV-9500. The only thing I don't like is that there's not
enough segments. I have 8. I'd like about 3-4 times that many. Time
code might also be nice.
Do you notice that several of these things we're naming add little to
the manufacturing cost? Many of them are software issues and some
others are minimal and very cheap hardware. I'm sure the TBC, 3D comb
filter and jog shuttle would raise the cost a fair bit but I see no
reason not to add most of the other things.
Is a pro quality deck with consumer features too much to ask? Am I
just spoiled by my EDV-9500?
Also, I looked at that XBR^2 TV again last night. I found that it had
different display modes. When I put it into movie mode, the highly
annoying artifacts that I believe the 3D filter was adding
disappeared. The picture looked excellent. I wonder if these
different modes (normal, movie, sports, news, game) effect the
sensitivity of the filter?
--Bill Davidson
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems
In article <4p4jga$3...@walter.cray.com>, bi...@cray.com (Bill Davidson) writes:
> Do you notice that several of these things we're naming add little to
> the manufacturing cost? Many of them are software issues and some
> others are minimal and very cheap hardware. I'm sure the TBC, 3D comb
> filter and jog shuttle would raise the cost a fair bit but I see no
> reason not to add most of the other things.
I think they are deliberately "dumbing down" even the high-end VCRs.
They are overreacting to all the folks who complain "I can't program
my VCR!" by giving them fewer and fewer things to worry about.
The message they haven't gotten is that these thumb-fingered folks
aren't in the market for high-end VCRs at all. The mfrs can "dumb-down"
the $200 cheapie units and even the $350 basic HiFi units all they
like, but why go out of their way to alienate the folks who are
interested in the high-end units? Especially when that market segment
is pretty small as it is?
> Is a pro quality deck with consumer features too much to ask? Am I
> just spoiled by my EDV-9500?
Yes, you're spoiled, but it still isn't too much to ask. :-)
Bill Keshlear
I've got a few questions about the SVO-2000, and it looks like you guys have
researched it some:
1. Does the SVO-2000 have TBC? I've seen some posts that imply that it does,
but the review in Videomaker didn't mention it. I've read that this is highly
desirable feature for editing, especially if multiple generations are involved.
Is it? Or would I get nearly the same quality from a JVC HR7200, and save
$600?
2. What features does the RM-250 edit controller have? Compared to the
videonics TU-1, for example. Apparantly, you can get a package deal
when buying the RM-250 bundled with the VCR.
3. Any links or phone numbers to get more info on these? I read the Videomaker
review, but didn't find any info on the Sony web site.
Thanks for any help!
--
Bill Keshlear
bi...@cyrix.com
Kevin Oberman
In article <1996Jun5.172708.6707@cmkrnl>
> In article <4p4jga$3...@walter.cray.com>, bi...@cray.com (Bill Davidson) writes:
> > Do you notice that several of these things we're naming add little to
> > the manufacturing cost? Many of them are software issues and some
> > others are minimal and very cheap hardware. I'm sure the TBC, 3D comb
> > filter and jog shuttle would raise the cost a fair bit but I see no
> > reason not to add most of the other things.
>
> I think they are deliberately "dumbing down" even the high-end VCRs.
> They are overreacting to all the folks who complain "I can't program
> my VCR!" by giving them fewer and fewer things to worry about.
>
> The message they haven't gotten is that these thumb-fingered folks
> aren't in the market for high-end VCRs at all. The mfrs can "dumb-down"
> the $200 cheapie units and even the $350 basic HiFi units all they
> like, but why go out of their way to alienate the folks who are
> interested in the high-end units? Especially when that market segment
> is pretty small as it is?
I suspect the real problem is "marketing". With the yen so strong
compared to the dollar, I think companies are afraid that the only way
they can sell enough units of consumer products is to remove features
and keep the prices about the same (in terms of US dollars). Note that
Mitsubishi has never released a unit comparable to the U-82, Sony has
not put out anything like the SLV-R5, and JVC has not approached the
old 10000. but, with the exception of JVC, they all have units at
about the same prices as the old top-of-the-line stuff which has fewer
features.
I really don't think it's "dumbing down". (Though Mitsubishi may think
that they need to dumb things down when they really need to get
someone to write readable manuals!)
--
R. Kevin Oberman
E-mail: obe...@netcom.com
Phone: +1 510 422-6955
Eric Moore
Bill Davidson wrote:
> ...
> So, I'm back to the SLV-R1000. I decided to go for it. I called
Didn't Sony discontinue the consumer model SLV-R1000, in favor of
the "Industrial" model SVO-2000?
Eric Moore
Bill Davidson
In article <wlohmx3...@viva.cyrix.com>, Bill Keshlear <bi...@cyrix.com> wrote:
>1. Does the SVO-2000 have TBC? I've seen some posts that imply that it does,
>but the review in Videomaker didn't mention it. I've read that this is highly
>desirable feature for editing, especially if multiple generations are involved.
>Is it? Or would I get nearly the same quality from a JVC HR7200, and save
>$600?
No TBC. I have no idea about the JVC deck.
>2. What features does the RM-250 edit controller have? Compared to the
>videonics TU-1, for example. Apparantly, you can get a package deal
>when buying the RM-250 bundled with the VCR.
It gives you 20 segment assemble editing. You also get audio and video
insert capability from the controller and jog shuttles for both the
recorder and player. It also has preview and review. All in all I
don't find it all that impressive. I can't see how an external edit
controller can be all that accurate without time code.
>3. Any links or phone numbers to get more info on these? I read the Videomaker
>review, but didn't find any info on the Sony web site.
Did you try the professional video products section?
--Bill Davidson
Bill Davidson
In article <31B758...@agt.gmeds.com>, Eric Moore <it...@agt.gmeds.com> wrote:
>Didn't Sony discontinue the consumer model SLV-R1000, in favor of
>the "Industrial" model SVO-2000?
Not according to the Sony rep. I talked to last week. He said that as
far as he knew the SLV-R1000 is their consumer SVHS deck for the year.
On the other hand, the SLV-R1000 has apparently become scarce in the
mail order market. I know a couple of local sources but their prices
are a bit high -> $999 => I might as well buy an SVO-2000 because
that's CWO's price for the SVO-2000.
Like I said, I've decided to wait until CWO gets more R1000's.
I can't see replacing the SLV-R1000 with the SVO-2000 since they are in
completely different product lines. You can't walk into most nice
stores and look at an SVO-2000 because most nice stores don't stock or
even sell pro equipment. Pro equipment usually has to be ordered
through a pro dealer and the pro dealer shops I've seen don't generally
have much on display and they aren't really interested in normal
consumer type questions. They're interested in selling you editing
systems (multiple decks, A/B roll systems, special effects mixers
etc.).
--Bill Davidson
Jeff Hum
In article <sreybm0...@ptavv.nersc.gov>,Kevin Oberman <obe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <1996Jun5.172708.6707@cmkrnl>
>j...@cmkrnl.com (Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems) writes:
>
>> In article <4p4jga$3...@walter.cray.com>, bi...@cray.com (Bill Davidson) writes:
>> I think they are deliberately "dumbing down" even the high-end VCRs.
>> They are overreacting to all the folks who complain "I can't program
>> my VCR!" by giving them fewer and fewer things to worry about.
>>
>> The message they haven't gotten is that these thumb-fingered folks
>> aren't in the market for high-end VCRs at all. The mfrs can "dumb-down"
>> the $200 cheapie units and even the $350 basic HiFi units all they
>> like, but why go out of their way to alienate the folks who are
>> interested in the high-end units? Especially when that market segment
>> is pretty small as it is?
I totally agree! It doesn't seem likely that those fools will catch on...
>... and JVC has not approached the old 10000.
well actually the BR-S378U isn't too far off...unfortunatly no tuner!
Jeff.
Yan Q Liu
I want to make an order from either B&H Photo-Video or Adorama in New
York, but I don't know which one is most reliable. Can anyone help?
Abang
I've bought from B & H based on the advice of others in this newsgroup
and have been very satisfied.
I've heard negative opinions on Adorama.
Trip Farmer
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96061...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>, Yan Q Liu <yan...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> says:
>
>I want to make an order from either B&H Photo-Video or Adorama in New
>York, but I don't know which one is most reliable. Can anyone help?
DON'T MAILORDER! If you have to send it back one time there goes
your savings!
Trip
Lewis E. Wolfgang
In article <4q6rqf$s...@maze.dpo.uab.edu>,
Trip Farmer <tdfa...@uab-admin.vpad.uab.edu> wrote:
>
>DON'T MAILORDER! If you have to send it back one time there goes
>your savings!
Why would sending it back cost money? Are you saying that you
don't get a manufacturer's warranty?
I'm considering a mailorder purchase too. It seems that one
can save significant money. I recently priced a Canon ES5000
and after subtracting sales tax and adding shipping I can
buy another entire Hi-8 (lesser) camera with what I save!
Regards,
Lew Wolfgang
o...@erols.com
On 18 Jun 1996 18:16:47 GMT, tdfa...@uab-admin.vpad.uab.edu (Trip
Farmer) wrote:
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96061...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>, Yan Q Liu <yan...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> says:
>>
>>I want to make an order from either B&H Photo-Video or Adorama in New
>>York, but I don't know which one is most reliable. Can anyone help?
>
>
>
>DON'T MAILORDER! If you have to send it back one time there goes
>your savings!
>
>
>Trip
>
I just bought a laser disc player by mail order and I'd have to send
it back 5 times before breaking even with the local Circuit City or
Best Buy.