Mini DV Audio need your help or suggestions
raida...@yahoo.com
Some tapes I got in 8mm and have always been able to transfer these to
VHS or DVD via RCA cables. Similarly I got some that were Digital 8 and
I was able to do likewise.
Recently I got some Mini DV (not Mini DVD) tapes and discovered after
the fact that all of these recordings were done in such a format that
the Audio is not reproducible by any other means than from the guy who
taped these for me. The video always comes through fine, it's just the
audio I am having trouble with. I tried a couple of iterations of
swapping out the audio cables and made sure they were properly
connected.
He left a few untransfered to DVD for me and now I am stuck with Mini
DV tapes that I can not get the sound out of. I suspect these were
recorded in 16 bit Audio, because all of the 12 Bit recordings play
back just fine. I have tried in vain using other camcorders and even
messed with every combination of audio setting on the camcorder with
the RCA jacks, but the Audio just does not come through. I have only
tried using RCA jacks, I am not familiar with other technologies.
If someone can help me figure out how to recover the audio from these
recordings along with the video stream, I would be very thankful.
Richard Crowley
First, note that 16-bit is the preferred mode, and very few
people use 12-bit, mostly by accident. :-)
You didn't mention what software you are using to capture?
Is it set for 12-bit (because you seem to work with 12 a lot?)
Rick Merrill
Rick Merrill
He should try playback on a camcorder with both 12-bit and 16-bit modes
and see if either mode has audio. If neither mode gives audio then I'd
think the recordings were toast.
Bill
transfer the video through that.
I suppose another option might be to run a cable from the headphone jack
to your audio in, with some adjusting of the levels to optimize quality.
The firewire is definitely a better solution.
David Matthew Wood
Double check the audio settings on whatever it is you're playing back
on. Since the audio on his tapes is in 16-bit 48khz mode, there will
only be audio on channels 1 and 2 while 12-bit 32khz mode (even though
there is a loss in sound quality this way) can have 4 channels of audio.
raida...@yahoo.com
I bought 4 different players and had to return each as every time I
changed the settings either I got no sound or intermittent sound
playback. Each time I tried this I played them back and made sure the
cables weren't loose. I just wonder if this is all due to the fact that
I am using RCA jacks to try and retreive the audio and video from these
tapes. I am concerned that I may get other recordings like this from
Mini DV tapes in the future, and that the tapes may not be able to be
played back because this is a problem with Mini DV technology.
I have camcorder equipment that can playback 8mm, Digital 8 tapes and
even VHS C, but I have only experienced this problem with Mini DV. I
will try the firewire option as someone suggested. I guess it is time I
got with the times. One thing I noticed is that several camera manuals
indicate that you can only playback 16 bit audio recordings in 12 bit
audio mode.In many cases when I tried to change the settings on most of
these cameras they would not let me change the Audio to 16 bit.
Thanks again
Gene E. Bloch
I've recorded audio in 12-bit (accidentally) and 16-bit (intentionally)
and never had "a problem with Mini DV technology". You've got some
settings wrong somewhere, but from your description I can't guess what.
> I have camcorder equipment that can playback 8mm, Digital 8 tapes and
> even VHS C, but I have only experienced this problem with Mini DV. I
> will try the firewire option as someone suggested. I guess it is time I
> got with the times. One thing I noticed is that several camera manuals
> indicate that you can only playback 16 bit audio recordings in 12 bit
> audio mode.In many cases when I tried to change the settings on most of
> these cameras they would not let me change the Audio to 16 bit.
Your last two sentences don't make sense to me.
1. You can't play 16-bit recordings in 12-bit mode. However, AFIK, the
camera will automatically play tapes in the mode they are recorded in,
so you shouldn't have to make any settings.
2. In the record mode, you can only change the settings for future
recordings; as I read your last sentence I wonder if you meant that
while you were in playback mode, you were trying to change the record
mode of an existing tape...
You might mention what camcorder or player you're using so someone who
knows the equipment or has the manual can guide you more accurately.
--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
Richard Crowley
> I bought 4 different players and had to return each as every time I
> changed the settings either I got no sound or intermittent sound
> playback. Each time I tried this I played them back and made sure the
> cables weren't loose. I just wonder if this is all due to the fact that
> I am using RCA jacks to try and retreive the audio and video from these
> tapes. I am concerned that I may get other recordings like this from
> Mini DV tapes in the future, and that the tapes may not be able to be
> played back because this is a problem with Mini DV technology.
Millions of people use miniDV technology every day without
any of those kinds of problems. There does not appear to be
any kind of fundamental "problem with Mini DV technology".
You will get little practical help here unless you start giving
specifics like make/model, etc. "4 different players" means
nothing to us.
> I have camcorder equipment that can playback 8mm, Digital 8 tapes and
> even VHS C, but I have only experienced this problem with Mini DV. I
> will try the firewire option as someone suggested. I guess it is time I
> got with the times.
You will most certainly get better results from a direct digital
connection (via Firewire) than you can with any kind of analog
capture. But whether this will remedy your ongoing problems
with 12-bit vs. 16-bit seems doubtful.
Frankly, I've never heard any one else experience such problems.
Few people use 12-bit, and then only by accident, and only once.
It was a marketing gimmic and turned out to be of little practical
use. Stick with 16-bit like 99.9999% of the rest of the world.
> One thing I noticed is that several camera manuals indicate that
> you can only playback 16 bit audio recordings in 12 bit audio
> mode.
What kind of cameras are you talking about? Cite name and
model numbers, please. This makes no sense at all. Furthermore,
most equipment automatically switches upon playback to the
format used to record the tape.
> In many cases when I tried to change the settings on most of
> these cameras they would not let me change the Audio to 16 bit.
Give us some specifics. Else any practical help will be impossible.
Do you mean "change the settings" before recording? What does
"not let me" mean?
Rick Merrill
I wonder if he recorded in "VR " mode instead of "Video" mode?
Gene E. Bloch
He's talking about a camcorder...
Rick Merrill
So am I talking about a camcorder. Specifically Sony DVD camcorders have
two Very Different record modes (VR vs Video). Look it up.
Rick Merrill
BUT most camcorders come with 12-bit as the DEFAULT!!!!!!!
>
>>One thing I noticed is that several camera manuals indicate that
>>you can only playback 16 bit audio recordings in 12 bit audio
>>mode.
>
But not vice-versa !-)
>
> What kind of cameras are you talking about? Cite name and
> model numbers, please. This makes no sense at all. Furthermore,
> most equipment automatically switches upon playback to the
> format used to record the tape.
Yes, that would help!
>
>
>>In many cases when I tried to change the settings on most of
>>these cameras they would not let me change the Audio to 16 bit.
>
Change it before recording, not after???
Frank
in article <Re: Mini DV Audio need your help or suggestions>,
Rick Merrill <rick0....@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
Rick, the OP wrote "Mini DV (not Mini DVD) tapes". The OP is *not*
referring to a DVD camcorder, hence the VR versus Video record mode
issue doesn't apply to this situation.
The problem/question here appears to relate to 12/32 DV audio versus
16/48 DV audio, although the OP hasn't indicated what sort of
equipment he's using to play back the tape, so it's difficult to offer
suggestions other than to try a FireWire connection instead of an
analog audio connection.
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
Gene E. Bloch
news:1ng182tdf4jlq0lu1...@4ax.com:
Thanks for the help, Frank :-)
--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino) ... letters617blochg3251
Gary Eickmeier
Richard Crowley wrote:
> Millions of people use miniDV technology every day without
> any of those kinds of problems. There does not appear to be
> any kind of fundamental "problem with Mini DV technology".
>
> You will get little practical help here unless you start giving
> specifics like make/model, etc. "4 different players" means
> nothing to us.
Richard, you must be wrong about this. I have a VX2000 that started out
life just fine, but then I ran into a patch of audio dropouts where
there were no problems with the video. I sent it in twice, the first
time for the audio dropout problem, the second to correct the head
misalignment that they inflicted on me, wherein the camera wouldn't play
back tapes that were recorded on our other VX2000s. As I recall, the
video came in OK, but there was NO audio track. Got worse at LP speed.
Now, I discover that even after a realignment, the camera has bad sound
dropouts when using 80 minute tapes at LP speed. Didn't try it at SP.
Had to shoot high school graduations that last two hours each. OUr other
VX2000s shot these events just fine.
There is some serious design defect with this format, in which it seems
unable to automatically track the recorded signal itself. It has to be
manually adjusted perfectly, or no dice. And the repair shops either
don't know how or don't give a shit. Never had these problems with VHS.
I think the problem with the OP's camera or tapes is this head
alignment, wherein the tapes recorded on one camera or recorder are not
playable on another Mini DV camera.
Absolutely unconscienable.
Gary Eickmeier
Richard Crowley
> Richard, you must be wrong about this. I have a VX2000 that started
> out life just fine, but then I ran into a patch of audio dropouts
You need to find a competent repair shop.
Gary Eickmeier
Agreed, but how can I do much better than the Sony authorized repair
center in New York? I couldn't even talk to any technical people, just
the order taker woman. Ever. Communicated with them by letter inside the
camcorder box. They send it back to you in worse condition than when it
went in.
So what is the big mystery about aligning a mini DV camcorder? They do
it at the factory a zillion times a day.
Gary Eickmeier
Richard Crowley
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>> You need to find a competent repair shop.
>
> Agreed, but how can I do much better than the Sony authorized repair
> center in New York? I couldn't even talk to any technical people, just
> the order taker woman. Ever. Communicated with them by letter inside
> the camcorder box. They send it back to you in worse condition than
> when it went in.
So apparently "Big City" or even "Factory Authorized" are
not necessarily indicators of competence or customer service.
I live in Portland, OR, and have a great service place.
When my DSR-300 quit working, I placed it directly on
the bench of the owner and watched over his shoulder
as he dissembled it enough to find the tape guide which
came loose. Lucky for me, the guide was still there in
the bottom of the case, and it only cost me a re-alignment.
> So what is the big mystery about aligning a mini DV camcorder? They do
> it at the factory a zillion times a day.
No great mystery. A standard alignment tape, an oscilloscope,
and a service manual is pretty much all it takes. (Plus the
underlying skill of working on small electro-mechanical
gadgets, the tools, and a strong magnifying lamp! :-)
Gene E. Bloch
And a desire to do a good job...
--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
Gary Eickmeier
Thanks - I didn't get the Crowley post on my server. I found a shop that
I can take it to and actually talk to the technician, hopefully, in St
Pete. Sending it to Sony is like dropping it off a cliff and hoping for
the best. That's a real shame, because you would think you could trust
them to make the camera just like new. I mean like, if you can't trust
the factory guys...
Gary Eickmeier
Gene E. Bloch
>
> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>> On 6/04/2006, Richard Crowley posted this:
>>> "Gary Eickmeier" wrote ...
...
>>>> Richard Crowley wrote:
>>>
>>> No great mystery. A standard alignment tape, an oscilloscope,
>>> and a service manual is pretty much all it takes. (Plus the
>>> underlying skill of working on small electro-mechanical
>>> gadgets, the tools, and a strong magnifying lamp! :-)
>>
>>
>> And a desire to do a good job...
>
> Thanks - I didn't get the Crowley post on my server. I found a shop that I
> can take it to and actually talk to the technician, hopefully, in St Pete.
> Sending it to Sony is like dropping it off a cliff and hoping for the best.
> That's a real shame, because you would think you could trust them to make the
> camera just like new. I mean like, if you can't trust the factory guys...
>
> Gary Eickmeier
I've had fun experiences wiht Sony tech support :-(
Also good experiences. It's the old crapshoot...
Those were in the old days when there was a Sony repair center just a
few miles away from where I live.
Gino
David Matthew Wood
> changed the settings either I got no sound or intermittent sound
> playback. Each time I tried this I played them back and made sure the
> cables weren't loose. I just wonder if this is all due to the fact that
> I am using RCA jacks to try and retreive the audio and video from these
> tapes. I am concerned that I may get other recordings like this from
> Mini DV tapes in the future, and that the tapes may not be able to be
> played back because this is a problem with Mini DV technology.
>
> I have camcorder equipment that can playback 8mm, Digital 8 tapes and
> even VHS C, but I have only experienced this problem with Mini DV. I
> will try the firewire option as someone suggested. I guess it is time I
> got with the times. One thing I noticed is that several camera manuals
> indicate that you can only playback 16 bit audio recordings in 12 bit
> audio mode.In many cases when I tried to change the settings on most of
> these cameras they would not let me change the Audio to 16 bit.
Sorry for the late reply.....
There is so such "problem" with Mini DV technology. We have been using
miniDV ever since the VX-1000s came out YEARS ago. Since then, we have
used DSR-300s (also cameras), and also several different decks including
DSR-80s, DSR-11s, DSR-45s, and DSR-50s. Not one of these decks has had
any compatibility issue with any tape whether it was recorded in 12bit
or 16bit mode. Plus, for what we use them for, we only use channels 1
and 2 anyway so if there ever is a tape that got recorded in 12bit audio
mode, it was purely by accident.
The fact that you bought 4 different players and none of them work,
indicates that either you missing a setting, or the recordings you are
getting are defective. The fact that you are getting audio from 12-bit
recordings and not 16-bit recordings indicates that maybe your player is
set to play only channels 3 and 4. In 16bit mode however, there is only
audio on channels 1 and 2. Go in and look for such settings. Put it on
"mix" and see what happens.
Yes, firewire is best if you are going into a PC to do some non linear
editing or if you are making a dub or what not, but the camera should
still be able to output sound through the analog RCA jacks as well if
everything is set up correctly.