SP vs EP vs SLP sound quality
Daev Roehr
>Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
>when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
>different tape recording speeds?
The S/N is within a few dB, I believe, and the Freq. response is about the
same too. The problem is the slower speeds are more sensitive to drop outs.
Use top grade tape for the 6 hour length for that reason.
_daev
Opinions are not facts... Unless they're mine.
"Resistance is futile." - The Borg "Oh Yeah?" - Tommy Smothers
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems
>
> Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
> when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
> different tape recording speeds?
There isn't supposed to be. You will probably have fewer dropouts at the
faster speeds.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet: j...@cmkrnl.com (JH645) Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh CompuServe: 74140,2055
JEFF HUM
>John,
>
>
>>Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
>>when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
>>different tape recording speeds?
>
>The S/N is within a few dB, I believe, and the Freq. response is about the
>same too. The problem is the slower speeds are more sensitive to drop outs.
>Use top grade tape for the 6 hour length for that reason.
Don't forget about potential interchangability problems when using the EP
speed...
Jeff.
Vidiot
<when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
<different tape recording speeds?
No real difference. But, the long term storage of EP tapes could bite you
in the butt in the future.
--
e-mail: br...@ftms.com or br...@wi.extrel.com
phone: (608) 273-8262 fax: (608) 273-8719 voice-mail: (800) 426-6488 ext 8293
System Administrator - Extrel FTMS - Madison WI. [An era has come to an end.]
[The need for igniting the midnight petroleum has come to a close as well.]
Marty
>John,
>
>
>>Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
>>when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
>>different tape recording speeds?
>
>The S/N is within a few dB, I believe, and the Freq. response is about the
>same too. The problem is the slower speeds are more sensitive to drop outs.
>Use top grade tape for the 6 hour length for that reason.
What do you mean by "Drop outs" ? The sound volume lowers for a couple
of milliseconds, or is it something more noticeable?
Thanks! Marty
Marty
what potential interchangeability problems?
Marty
Marty
>
>In article <17039F904S...@american.edu>, JW6...@american.edu (John Witherspoon) writes:
><
><
><Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
><when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
><different tape recording speeds?
>
>No real difference. But, the long term storage of EP tapes could bite you
>in the butt in the future.
If EP speed sucks that much, why did manufacturers decided to
eliminate LP, and leave us with only 2 choices : SP (excellent recording, but
not anyone can afford to buy 1 tape/movie), and EP (according to what I read
in this newsgroup, the quality is equal to SP recording, and the video is not
that bad. But you'd better not record important stuff, otherwise you'll have
a big surprise when trying to play that tape after, let's say 3 years from the
recording date). Wasn't LP a good compromise? 4-hour recording isn't that bad..
Bye! MArty
Vidiot
EP tracking between machines is more problematic than when using SP speed.
Vidiot
EP mode is fine for time shifting (EP mode with S-VHS is much better), but
not for long term storage.
Marty
>
>In article <29SEP199...@pavo.concordia.ca>, rjv...@pavo.concordia.ca (Marty) writes:
><In article <28...@ftms.UUCP>, br...@ftms.com writes...
><>
><>In article <17039F904S...@american.edu>, JW6...@american.edu (John Witherspoon) writes:
><><
><><
><><Is there an appreciable difference in sound quality or in S/N ratio
><><when using a 4 head, Hi Fi Stereo VCR as a sound recording deck at
><><different tape recording speeds?
><>
><>No real difference. But, the long term storage of EP tapes could bite you
><>in the butt in the future.
><
>< If EP speed sucks that much, why did manufacturers decided to
><eliminate LP, and leave us with only 2 choices : SP (excellent recording, but
><not anyone can afford to buy 1 tape/movie), and EP (according to what I read
><in this newsgroup, the quality is equal to SP recording, and the video is not
><that bad. But you'd better not record important stuff, otherwise you'll have
><a big surprise when trying to play that tape after, let's say 3 years from the
><recording date). Wasn't LP a good compromise? 4-hour recording isn't that bad..
>
>EP mode is fine for time shifting (EP mode with S-VHS is much better), but
>not for long term storage.
Can you give me a technical explanation for this vulnerability to
long-term storage? It's pretty scary! Let's say I record 100 movies on 35
tapes, will they become unusable after 1 year of storage?
Marty
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems
(Marty) writes:
> In article <29...@ftms.UUCP>, br...@ftms.com writes...
>>EP mode is fine for time shifting (EP mode with S-VHS is much better), but
>>not for long term storage.
>
> Can you give me a technical explanation for this vulnerability to
> long-term storage? It's pretty scary!
Well, one thing that happens is that the tape's dimensions change slightly over
time. This obviously affects tracking. It affects EP more than SP because the
tolerances are three times as tight at EP as at SP.
The degradation may be a little worse if you rewind your tapes before storage,
as the tape "pack" that's put on the reel during rewind is not as even as it is
during normal play. The tension is uneven, and so on, leading to stretching,
wrinkling, damaged edges, and other problems.
You may recall that in the days when open-reel tape was king, no one who had
read Word One about tape recording would admit to rewinding their tapes before
storage. (But most audio r-r decks' rewind functions made a much rougher tape
pack than does the rewind function on a modern VCR. Still, the VCR's rewind
function will leave a rougher tape pack than the play function.)
> Let's say I record 100 movies on 35
> tapes, will they become unusable after 1 year of storage?
Depends on the tape, storage conditions, the recorder that was used, etc., but
I'd say that a one-year scenario would almost always be very pessimistic.
However I wouldn't expect very many EP tapes to be very good after five years.
A Nguyen
--
An Nguyen "Where there is no vision,
a...@macsch.com the people will perish."
Vidiot
<long-term storage? It's pretty scary! Let's say I record 100 movies on 35
<tapes, will they become unusable after 1 year of storage?
After one year, probably not. We are talking about long-term storage, in
the area of 5-10 years and longer. If you keep tapes in a cool dry place,
it will help.
The main problem is with tape shrinkage and expansion. If you store tapes
in an area that will have large swings in temperature and humidity (large
swings over a long period in time, like winter/summer), the tape can
change its physical size. It will be extremely small, but with EP speed
also being relatively small (head size and speed), those small changes in
tape size can be "seen" by the VCR. The result is poor tracking and Hi-Fi
audio dropouts. If the size change is real drastic, it will even affect
SP tapes. So, store your tapes in a safe place.
--
e-mail: br...@ftms.com visit - http://www.ftms.com/st-ds9/
Marty
>The degradation may be a little worse if you rewind your tapes before storage,
>as the tape "pack" that's put on the reel during rewind is not as even as it is
>during normal play. The tension is uneven, and so on, leading to stretching,
>wrinkling, damaged edges, and other problems.
So after playing a tape, it'd be better not to rewind it and to
store it as this?
>> Let's say I record 100 movies on 35
>> tapes, will they become unusable after 1 year of storage?
>
>Depends on the tape, storage conditions, the recorder that was used, etc., but
>I'd say that a one-year scenario would almost always be very pessimistic.
>However I wouldn't expect very many EP tapes to be very good after five years.
And what is the life expectancy of a SP tape? Moreover, I think that
in 5 years we'll have numeric VCR, and we'll be reluctant to use our old
VHS tapes because of their low resolution. So we shouldn't think in terms of
long-term storage. What do you think?
Marty
Vidiot
In article <Cx60G...@draco.macsch.com>, a...@trinity.si.macsch.com (A Nguyen) writes:
<I think LP was killed because during a "search", video could not be displayed.
Incorrect.
The LP speed was never sanctioned by JVC, the license holder for VHS.
obe...@icaen.llnl.gov
br...@ftms.com (Vidiot) writes:
>
>The LP speed was never sanctioned by JVC, the license holder for VHS.
Just to pick a nit, JVC is the owner of the VHS design specification and
related patents. It doesn't need a license; it grants them.
And, yes, JVC has NEVER produced a machine recording at LP speed and has
tightened up the license requirements to block others, as well. It wants
everyone to use SP or EP. This is true of all SVHS recording, although I think
at least one manufacturer made an SVHS machine which would record LP in VHS
mode. I believe this was Matsushita, the inventor of LP speed.
JVC and Matsushita have been fighting over this for some time, now. Oddly, a
correspondent in Japan claims that Matsushita owns JVC. When I asked why JVC is
always fighting with Matsushita, he said that I don't understand Japanese
culture well enough to understand their corporate structures and relations.
R. Kevin Oberman
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
National Energy Research Supercomputer Center (NERSC)
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL)
Internet: kobe...@llnl.gov +1 510-422-6955
Randy Riddle
: > So after playing a tape, it'd be better not to rewind it and to
: > store it as this?
: Yes. But how much better, I don't know.
I can highly recommend this from personal experience. I have several
tapes I bought or recorded ten years ago.
These were stored in their "played" state and rewound just before use --
most were played through 3 or more times per year, since I loaned them to
friends or used them in classes (with strict instructions to the borrower
to NOT rewind the tape).
I screened one the other night -- an SP tape of "Beat the Devil" released
by Goodtimes. Amazingly, even the Hi-Fi sound was still
great, with no dropouts.
Randy A. Riddle
rid...@lib.wfunet.wfu.edu
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems
> In article <1994Oct4.165936.4652@cmkrnl>, j...@cmkrnl.com (Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems) writes...
>>The degradation may be a little worse if you rewind your tapes before storage,
>>as the tape "pack" that's put on the reel during rewind is not as even as it is
>>during normal play. The tension is uneven, and so on, leading to stretching,
>>wrinkling, damaged edges, and other problems.
>
> So after playing a tape, it'd be better not to rewind it and to
> store it as this?
Yes. But how much better, I don't know.
>>> Let's say I record 100 movies on 35
>>> tapes, will they become unusable after 1 year of storage?
>>
>>Depends on the tape, storage conditions, the recorder that was used, etc., but
>>I'd say that a one-year scenario would almost always be very pessimistic.
>>However I wouldn't expect very many EP tapes to be very good after five years.
>
> And what is the life expectancy of a SP tape?
I wouldn't expect very many SP tapes to be very good after 15 years, maybe 10.
There are so many variables (quality of tape, storage conditions, the evenness
with which the tape was wound, etc.) that it's impossible to be more precise.
> Moreover, I think that
> in 5 years we'll have numeric VCR, and we'll be reluctant to use our old
> VHS tapes because of their low resolution. So we shouldn't think in terms of
> long-term storage. What do you think?
I Presume you mean "digital"? Well, our existing tape libraries won't
automatically be converted, so if we want to watch first-season Babylon 5
episodes or whatever in five years, we'll have to be concerned with how the
tapes have held up. As for "low resolution", the market has demonstrated that
it doesn't want to pay for improved resolution or s/n; in fact most consumers
think that VHS at EP speed is perfectly acceptable. Since "more bits = more
money", and this is a very price-sensitive market, digital VCRs might not have
resolution much better than current VHS machines.
ED KELLY
(Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode)
>............. As for "low resolution", the market has demonstrated that
>it doesn't want to pay for improved resolution or s/n; in fact most consumers
>think that VHS at EP speed is perfectly acceptable. Since "more bits = more
>money", and this is a very price-sensitive market, digital VCRs might not have
>resolution much better than current VHS machines.
>
higher resolutions on some of the broadcasts. I predict that the
S-VHS market will now expand simply because now there will be higer
source materials to record. The technology of recording 400+ lines
of resolution is not going to be snapped up when your source
recording and TV will not show it! With Direct TV and an S-VHS
you can almost reproduce the original - at much better than regular
or HiFi VCRs without S-VHS. When you can get much better resolution
from a source you are recording from at home, you will have a reason
to buy a better VCR than before. Who needed to worry about the VCR
playback with only 225 lines of resolution when you had a TV that
gave source material that would not reach 400 lines?
With the oncoming DSS TV, look for great strides in sales of S-VHS
and higher resolution TV's.
Ed Kelly at Des Moines, IA