Panasonic LX-900 vs. Pioneer CLD-D701
Tom Levin
LX-900 and the Pioneer CLD-D701. The tests were not done scientifically
and are only the opinions of myself and my friend Joe (rab...@pacesetter.com).
Readers are encouraged to audition the two players and make their own decisions.
Review Date: March 21, 1993
Location: "The Good Guys", Northridge, CA
Time: 10:30 AM
Units Tested: Panasonic LX-900, Pioneer CLD-D701
Test TV: Panasonic direct-view tv. size was about 27".
Model unknown (I told you this wasn't scientific).
Armed with "LD-101 A Video Standard" and 2 CLV discs which have known
problems playing on an older Sony LD player, we fearlessly entered
the high-pressure world of consumer electronics.
Joe and I went straight for the LD section, distracted only briefly by the
"Demo equipment" for sale. We were instantly attacked by a salesman. He
stuck around for a while, then got bored and left us alone (thank god).
We then spent the next hour comparing the two machines.
Test 1: Bad Disc test.
We tried playing problem spots on two different discs on each machine.
Both machines played the discs perfectly.
Winner:
Tie
Test 2: Unload Disc Time
We timed how long it took for the disc drawer to completely open after
"Open" was pressed while a disc was playing. Each machine took about
8.5 seconds.
Winner:
Tie
Test 3: Side Change
We timed how long it took to change sides. The pioneer took 18 seconds.
The panasonic took 11 seconds. This is significant (IMO)! Also, the
Panasonic showed the last frame on the disc while the side was changing.
The Pioneer showed a random frame from earlier in the disc (about 1
minute back)!
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 4: Time Seek to a Certain Frame.
We did a long "seek" to a specific frame using a CAV disc. The pioneer
took 18 seconds. The panasonic took 10 seconds. This is significant (IMO)!
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 5: All Red Test
We froze the "All Red" screen on LD-101 to view the color pureness.
Both machines looked equally bad on this test.
Winner:
Tie
Test 6: All Pink Test
We froze the "All Pink" screen on LD-101 to view the color pureness.
The Pioneer had very bad color pureness with many different color bands
running horizontally across the screen. The Panasonic also had bands, but
they were not nearly as bad as the Pioneer. This was very obvious.
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 7: Horizontal Color Bars
We froze the "Horizontal Color Bars" screen on LD-101 to view the color
pureness. Pink and Blue were the worst on both machines.
Winner:
Tie
Test 8: Chroma Test
We froze the "Chroma Test Screen" on LD-101. Blue and Pink were equally
bad on both machines.
Winner:
Tie
Test 9: SMPTE
We froze the "SMPTE Resolution Screen" on LD-101. The machines were
indistinguishable in this test.
Winner:
Tie
Test 10: Scan a CLV disc
We compared the smoothness of the scanning on CLV discs. The Panasonic
seemed smoother. Also, the Pioneer seemed to skip some frames. I've heard
that the Panasonic has more field memory and can display every frame where
the Pioneer has problems towards the end of the disc. Don't know the validity
of this, though. An interesting side note: When going from freeze to play
on CLV discs, the Pioneer picture would always get a big glitch in it (a
large white streak in the middle and a quick jitter in the picture). The
Panasonic was absolutely smooth in this respect. Another plus for the
Panasonic was that on CLV discs in freeze mode, it shows the minutes,
seconds, and frame number (30 frames/sec). The Pioneer only showed minutes
and seconds. BTW, we counted the frames on the pioneer and it only showed
13 frames before incrementing the "seconds" counter. This implies that
it skips 2 or 3 frames!
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 11: Remote Controls
This is a subjective look at the remotes. Each were similar, but there
were a few notable differences. The Panasonic "Jog" dial has nice clicks
when you turn it. The Pioneer just spins freely. The Pioneer has a side
button which lights-up common used keys on the remote. The Pioneer lacks
a "Stop" button, but I believe we found a differently labeled button which
starts the disc from the beginning.
Winner:
Panasonic (IMO)
Test 12: Front Panel Ergonomics (subjective)
I don't know about Joe, but to me the Panasonic front panel was laid
out much better than the Pioneer. The Pioneer has button labels on an
area which looks like buttons. I kept pressing this area expecting
something to happen, when the real button was beneath the area I was
pressing. Bad user interface!
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 13: Misc. Comments/Problems
Two times the Panasonic refused to play a disc after loading it. We had
to re-open the drawer and close it to get the disc to load properly.
The Pioneer had no such problems. This may be a problem with this
particular demo unit. Has any LX-900 owners out there had this problem?
Winner:
Pioneer
Conclusions:
If the disc-load problem is a fluke, then the clear winner (IMO) is
the Panasonic. Note that we did not test audio at all (the viewing area
was not set-up for it). I've read in "Video" that the Panasonic is smoother,
but I expect either would be great in this respect.
There was also a new Denon player which the salesman said was really a
Pioneer combined with Denon's audio chips. This unit, he claimed, was much
better sounding than either of the two we were looking at (I doubt it).
Anyways, the Denon's front panel was better laid out than the Pioneers.
It's remote was almost identical to the Pioneer's with a few exceptions
(like the back light for the buttons was red, not green). We tried
freezing a frame on the Denon, then starting it up...yep, it's a Pioneer!
Same glitch!
-tom
--
Tom Levin __/__/__/ __/__/__/ __/ __/
INTERNET: tom...@pacesetter.com __/ __/ __/ __/__/__/
"Game over, man!" __/ __/__/__/ __/ __/
Winston Choy
>The following is a comparison of two laser disc players: the Panasonic
>LX-900 and the Pioneer CLD-D701. The tests were not done scientifically
[ some very good comparisons btwn the Pioneer CLD-D701 vs Panasonic
LX 900 delted for brevity ]
Thanks, Tom Levin (tom...@pacesetter.com) for an excellent and thorough
comparison between the Pioneer CLD-D701 and the Panasonic LX-900. I'd
like to add a few comments:
>Test 10: Scan a CLV disc
> ...
> of this, though. An interesting side note: When going from freeze to play
> on CLV discs, the Pioneer picture would always get a big glitch in it (a
> large white streak in the middle and a quick jitter in the picture). The
I also noticed this on a Pioneer D701 I saw at the Good Guys (Hayward,
CA, USA). Perhaps the vertical hold was a tad off on the TV? But the
Panasonic LX900 outputting to the same TV had no transition glitch.
Then I checked a D701 at Fry's Electronics (Fremont, CA, USA) and it
had no glitch. So, it doesn't seem to be a problem with all Pioneers.
>Test 11: Remote Controls
> This is a subjective look at the remotes. Each were similar, but there
> were a few notable differences. The Panasonic "Jog" dial has nice clicks
> when you turn it. The Pioneer just spins freely. The Pioneer has a side
> button which lights-up common used keys on the remote. The Pioneer lacks
> a "Stop" button, but I believe we found a differently labeled button which
> starts the disc from the beginning.
On the Pioneer remote, the Eject button is also the Stop button. (If
playing, press Eject stops play, if not playing, pressing Eject ejects.)
My observations on the remotes: I found the Pioneer remote a little
more difficult to use; using the strobe and Side B were non-intuitive.
Also the keypad '0' (zero) button was placed to the right of the other
nine numbers instead of below as I normally expect. I know, not really
a big deal. But keep in mind that you will be using this interface to
the player a good deal of the time, so you should like using it. On
the plus side, I do like the Pioneer's lighted buttons.
The Panasonic remote's buttons were laid out better and easier to use,
but the buttons were on the small side. I think the Pioneer dial
doesn't have enough tactile feedback, but the Panasonic's has a little
too much. Like you said, this is subjective.
>Test 12: Front Panel Ergonomics (subjective)
> I don't know about Joe, but to me the Panasonic front panel was laid
> out much better than the Pioneer. The Pioneer has button labels on an
> area which looks like buttons. I kept pressing this area expecting
> something to happen, when the real button was beneath the area I was
> pressing. Bad user interface!
>Winner:
> Panasonic
I agree. I too pressed the area above the buttons on the Pioneer the
first time I tried it too!
>Test 13: Misc. Comments/Problems
> Two times the Panasonic refused to play a disc after loading it. We had
> to re-open the drawer and close it to get the disc to load properly.
I've had the Panasonic for almost a week now and have loaded a disc
about 20 or so times w/o encountering this. Seems to be a problem with
the demo unit. Although it troubles me a bit that it would happen...
I pretty much agree with all that Tom Levin has said. I didn't use the
LD-101 but just T2 and Pioneer and Panasonic demo discs. I would say
in the solid color problems that Tom mentioned were not really noticable
in normal play.
winston choy
wc...@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
Jim Ranlett
of experience with the CLD-D701. Here are some of my experiences relative
to your comments.
Tom Levin (tom...@pacesetter.com) wrote:
: Test 3: Side Change
: We timed how long it took to change sides. The pioneer took 18 seconds.
: The panasonic took 11 seconds. This is significant (IMO)! Also, the
: Panasonic showed the last frame on the disc while the side was changing.
: The Pioneer showed a random frame from earlier in the disc (about 1
: minute back)!
: Winner:
: Panasonic
If the CLD-701 was in FILM MODE, side change time would have approached 11-12
seconds, and a BLACK screen would have been shown, no random frame displayed.
This, IMHO, makes the Winner: Pioneer.
: Test 10: Scan a CLV disc
: We compared the smoothness of the scanning on CLV discs. The Panasonic
: seemed smoother. Also, the Pioneer seemed to skip some frames. I've heard
: that the Panasonic has more field memory and can display every frame where
: the Pioneer has problems towards the end of the disc. Don't know the validity
: of this, though. An interesting side note: When going from freeze to play
It's not really a problem, but maybe lack of a feature. As far as I know, no
Pioneer consumer machine has ever been able to access all frames on the outer
edge of the disk. When scanning or freezing, it picks one of the 3 frames at
random and freezes one of its fields. The LX-1000, and now the LX-900, was
apparantly able to freeze a field from any and all of the frames at the outside
of a CLV disk. I don't think it has anything to do with field memory, just
how the machine accesses the frames/fields in the outer tracks.
: on CLV discs, the Pioneer picture would always get a big glitch in it (a
: large white streak in the middle and a quick jitter in the picture). The
: Panasonic was absolutely smooth in this respect. Another plus for the
If the DIGITAL PICTURE button was on on the CLD-D701, this glitch would not
have been present. However, the SMPTE resolution readout may diminish in that
mode. Hard to say.
: Panasonic was that on CLV discs in freeze mode, it shows the minutes,
: seconds, and frame number (30 frames/sec). The Pioneer only showed minutes
: and seconds. BTW, we counted the frames on the pioneer and it only showed
: 13 frames before incrementing the "seconds" counter. This implies that
: it skips 2 or 3 frames!
: Winner:
: Panasonic
Tough choice, considering it's a matter of taste, somewhat.
: Test 11: Remote Controls
: This is a subjective look at the remotes. Each were similar, but there
: were a few notable differences. The Panasonic "Jog" dial has nice clicks
: when you turn it. The Pioneer just spins freely. The Pioneer has a side
: button which lights-up common used keys on the remote. The Pioneer lacks
: a "Stop" button, but I believe we found a differently labeled button which
: starts the disc from the beginning.
The Pioneer does have a STOP button. Eject and Stop use the same button.
: Winner:
: Panasonic (IMO)
The Pioneer remote worked fine for my wife and me.
: Test 13: Misc. Comments/Problems
: Two times the Panasonic refused to play a disc after loading it. We had
: to re-open the drawer and close it to get the disc to load properly.
: The Pioneer had no such problems. This may be a problem with this
: particular demo unit. Has any LX-900 owners out there had this problem?
: Winner:
: Pioneer
: Conclusions:
: If the disc-load problem is a fluke, then the clear winner (IMO) is
: the Panasonic. Note that we did not test audio at all (the viewing area
While your comparison is appreciated, it should be noted that a sample of one
is not necessarily statistically significant. Your comment about the LX-900
not playing a disc after loading it maybe being a problem with that particular
demo unit should be expanded to all the categories for both players. e.g.
perhaps the red and pink color performance may differ with another pair of
players. Certainly, though, seeing what you saw would likely lead many to
the same conclusions. We expect all the best from what's available, but the
fact is that in any manufacturing process you have lot to lot variations,
and unit to unit variations within a given lot.
Thanks for sharing your post. It is appreciated by the net. I just wanted to
add my experiences as well. (If my comments seem to be pro-Pioneer, it may
be because I am. Although I have had trouble with their 3x90 line, I have
had great customer service from them AND great performance from their other
players.)
Jim
Anthony A. Datri
>is not necessarily statistically significant.
Back when the LX1000 came out, it was noted here and elsewhere that it had
real problems dealing with warped/scratched CLV discs.
--
======================================================================8--<
Tom Levin
>If the CLD-701 was in FILM MODE, side change time would have approached 11-12
>seconds, and a BLACK screen would have been shown, no random frame displayed.
>This, IMHO, makes the Winner: Pioneer.
Okay. Didn't know about "Film Mode". Still, i'd rather see the last frame
on the side displayed during a side change than either a black screen or a
random frame. Therefore, I would still give the win to Panasonic.
>It's not really a problem, but maybe lack of a feature. As far as I know, no
>Pioneer consumer machine has ever been able to access all frames on the outer
>edge of the disk. When scanning or freezing, it picks one of the 3 frames at
>random and freezes one of its fields. The LX-1000, and now the LX-900, was
>apparantly able to freeze a field from any and all of the frames at the outside
>of a CLV disk. I don't think it has anything to do with field memory, just
>how the machine accesses the frames/fields in the outer tracks.
Seems like a feature that *I* would definitely want to have.
>: Panasonic was that on CLV discs in freeze mode, it shows the minutes,
>: seconds, and frame number (30 frames/sec). The Pioneer only showed minutes
>: and seconds. BTW, we counted the frames on the pioneer and it only showed
>: 13 frames before incrementing the "seconds" counter. This implies that
>: it skips 2 or 3 frames!
>: Winner:
>: Panasonic
>
>Tough choice, considering it's a matter of taste, somewhat.
I can't imagine anyone ever wanting *less* information in this context.
>The Pioneer does have a STOP button. Eject and Stop use the same button.
Okay. I don't remember it being labelled, "STOP/EJECT". Is it just labeled,
"EJECT"? If so, then in my opinion, that is a poor design.
>While your comparison is appreciated, it should be noted that a sample of one
>is not necessarily statistically significant. Your comment about the LX-900
>not playing a disc after loading it maybe being a problem with that particular
>demo unit should be expanded to all the categories for both players. e.g.
>perhaps the red and pink color performance may differ with another pair of
>players. Certainly, though, seeing what you saw would likely lead many to
>the same conclusions. We expect all the best from what's available, but the
>fact is that in any manufacturing process you have lot to lot variations,
>and unit to unit variations within a given lot.
Granted. I don't think the picture differences would sway me from one machine
to another. They were *very* close when playing a disc. I would not be able
to tell the difference under normal movie viewing circumstances. However, the
operation of the Panasonic (freeze, jog, side change, remote design, etc.)
*did* convince me which machine I wanted to buy. These features are not going
to change from machine to machine.
>Thanks for sharing your post. It is appreciated by the net. I just wanted to
>add my experiences as well. (If my comments seem to be pro-Pioneer, it may
>be because I am. Although I have had trouble with their 3x90 line, I have
>had great customer service from them AND great performance from their other
>players.)
>
>Jim
My pleasure. Like I said at the beginning of the review, the tests were
not done in a strict scientific environment. I encourage anyone interested
in these two machines to check them out for themselves.
Tom Levin
>
>Back when the LX1000 came out, it was noted here and elsewhere that it had
>real problems dealing with warped/scratched CLV discs.
I hadn't read that (i'm new to this group). However, wouldn't all players
have problems with severly defective discs?
Ethan Solomita
>In article <C4GpF...@hpchase.rose.hp.com> ji...@mothra.rose.hp.com (Jim Ranlett) writes:
>>If the CLD-701 was in FILM MODE, side change time would have approached 11-12
>>seconds, and a BLACK screen would have been shown, no random frame displayed.
>>This, IMHO, makes the Winner: Pioneer.
>
>Okay. Didn't know about "Film Mode". Still, i'd rather see the last frame
>on the side displayed during a side change than either a black screen or a
>random frame. Therefore, I would still give the win to Panasonic.
>
on the side is black, and Image has many discs that has their
moronic logo at the beginning and end of each disc. By scanning
back 30 seconds or so, I get a relevant frame. Of course, in film
mode, the digital buffer isn't used -- the image isn't as good as
direct from disc -- so it just leaves the screen blank.
>>It's not really a problem, but maybe lack of a feature. As far as I know, no
>>Pioneer consumer machine has ever been able to access all frames on the outer
>>edge of the disk. When scanning or freezing, it picks one of the 3 frames at
>>random and freezes one of its fields. The LX-1000, and now the LX-900, was
>>apparantly able to freeze a field from any and all of the frames at the outside
>>of a CLV disk. I don't think it has anything to do with field memory, just
>>how the machine accesses the frames/fields in the outer tracks.
>
>Seems like a feature that *I* would definitely want to have.
>
Admittedly it is a nice plus, but you should realize that
CAV discs don't have this problem. That won't make you feel
better about your CLV discs, though.
>>The Pioneer does have a STOP button. Eject and Stop use the same button.
>
>Okay. I don't remember it being labelled, "STOP/EJECT". Is it just labeled,
>"EJECT"? If so, then in my opinion, that is a poor design.
>
The "word" above the button is eject, but they put both
the stop and eject symbols on the button. Stupid, yes. A reason
not to buy the 701, no.
-- Ethan
Anthony A. Datri
>>on the side displayed during a side change than either a black screen or a
>>random frame. Therefore, I would still give the win to Panasonic.
I've never fully understood the purpose of the "one-shot" button on my 3090.
The best guess I can make from the docs is that it's supposed to grab the
current field to use when changing sides, but it doesn't seem to work that
way.
--
======================================================================8--<
lea...@austin.ibm.com
I also own the 3090, and use the one-shot button every once in a while. Anyway,
here's what it does: It store the frame being shown when you press the button,
and stores it in digital memory. This frame can then be displayed by pressing
the button again after the disc has stopped playing, or has even been removed.
It stays in memory (I believe) until you either do the one-shot again, or change
sides of the disc (hence storing another frame in digital memory automatically).
This is really a rather useless feature, although I have used it to directly
compare frames from two discs, or to keep a video image from a movie on my TV
while I play a CD in the 3090 (after removing the LD). Hope this helps a little!
BTW. I've been seeing a lot of discussion about the "problem" with the Pioneer
3090; something about black lines....? I've never noticed anything but an
excellent picture, and flawless performance from mine!
LONG LIVE THE LD!
Tom Kuchar
>
>I've never fully understood the purpose of the "one-shot" button on my 3090.
>The best guess I can make from the docs is that it's supposed to grab the
>current field to use when changing sides, but it doesn't seem to work that
>way.
changes sides. However, since the 3090 has alpha turn, one shot will
not work if the field is on the other side.
I use it to show the film title when friends come over to watch a
movie or to grab a field just before the movie's over (like the group
shot of the Enterprise crew at the end of Star Trek VI) so that the TV
doesn't go blank.
--
Tom Kuchar
kuc...@buast7.bu.edu -or- kuc...@plh.af.mil
Department of Astronomy Phillips Laboratory/GPOB
Boston Univerity Hanscom AFB