More ED-Beta questions.
Bill Davidson
to myself when I know I can't justify the cost? I think I'm beginning
to get psuedo-videophile disease). I was looking at the picture on a
32" XBR.
Anyway, I was looking at the camera (EDC-55) and I was a bit suprised
to find that the thing weighs 15 lbs 3 oz (6.9Kg). This seems quite
heavy for a handheld camera though I supose that if you want to get a
big right shoulder you might like it. I doubt that many amateurs would
even consider such a heavy camera yet this seems to be the only ED-Beta
camera available. This seems strange to me. If they are going for a
high-end consumer market, I'd think they'd try to make things a little
more consumer oriented.
Here's another stupid question for all of you: what does 2CCD's mean
and why is it better than 1? The salesman didn't know the answer.
He also didn't know what all the editing stuff on the EDV-9500 did.
Fortunately, he had a brochure which sort of explained it. It has
8 segment assemble editing which I take to mean that it lets you
chose 8 pieces of the tape to copy to another Sony VCR.
Another question I had that he couldn't answer and is not in the
brochure is how long can you play the various tapes? What lengths
are ED-Metal tapes available in? He only had one size (I think it
was 250). The brochure's show 500's. Are 750's available?
--Bill Davidson
Goldberg
>I was looking at ED-Beta . . .
>Anyway, I was looking at the camera (EDC-55) . . .
>Here's another stupid question for all of you: what does 2CCD's mean
>and why is it better than 1? The salesman didn't know the answer.
One chip is used to sense the luminance (brightness) part of the signal,
corresponding to the 550-line horizontal resolution of ED-Beta, and
the second chip senses the chrominance (color) part, having a resolution
somewhat less. A prism beam splitter divides the image between the
two chips. There is a color stripe filter (red, green, blue, . . .)
filter in front of the chroma chip. Color is deduced by phase of the
signal. This is superior to a one-chip camera (single chip with stripe
filter) and inferior to the three chip (one chip each for red, green,
and blue). BTW -- CCD stands for charge-coupled device, a solid-state
image sensor that we all refer to as a "chip."
>Another question I had that he couldn't answer and is not in the
>brochure is how long can you play the various tapes? What lengths
>are ED-Metal tapes available in? He only had one size (I think it
>was 250). The brochure's show 500's. Are 750's available?
Beta has three speeds X1, X2, and X3. The first Betamax home VCRs had
just one speed, which got an hour on L500 tape. then X2 and X3 speeds
were developed, analogous to VHS LP and EP. Subsequent beta machines
dropped X1 recording. But some recent videophile beta machines have
re-introduced it, so I don't know specifically what the ED machines
have. Anyway, the L500 will give you two hours at the X2 speed and
three hours at the X3 speed; half of those times for the L250.
I can't remember ever seeing ED-Beta tape available anywhere.
ED-Beta, from all I've heard and read, is a fabulous format. Unfortunately,
IMHO, I don't think it is wise to get into ED-Beta because it is not
well supported by even its maker, Sony. SVHS and Hi-8, which do not
perform quite as well as ED-Beta, have much broader support among manufacturers
and post-production studios. I have actually seen the special tape
for sale in a variety of stores.
I speak as an early Betaphile. I bought a portable Beta system in '82.
A fine system, but an unwise move. Certainly a white elephant in a
VHS world.
Bill Davidson
>Another question I had that he couldn't answer and is not in the
>brochure is how long can you play the various tapes? What lengths
>are ED-Metal tapes available in? He only had one size (I think it
>was 250). The brochure's show 500's. Are 750's available?
In article <18...@nems.dt.navy.mil> gold...@dtoa3.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
>Beta has three speeds X1, X2, and X3. The first Betamax home VCRs had
>just one speed, which got an hour on L500 tape. then X2 and X3 speeds
>were developed, analogous to VHS LP and EP. Subsequent beta machines
>dropped X1 recording. But some recent videophile beta machines have
>re-introduced it, so I don't know specifically what the ED machines
>have. Anyway, the L500 will give you two hours at the X2 speed and
>three hours at the X3 speed; half of those times for the L250.
>I can't remember ever seeing ED-Beta tape available anywhere.
The reason I asked this question is that somehow I got it into my head
that in ED-Beta mode, the tape transport moves faster. I think I got
that impression from a posting in this group (though I may be
mistaken). The brochure says that regular Beta machines won't even
accept ED-Metal tapes. They'll spit them back out as soon as you
insert them. Also, the ED-Beta machines will revert to Beta or
Super-Beta mode if you stick a regular tape into them. It won't even
attempt to record in ED-Beta mode on a regular tape. If ED-Beta is
faster then I guess a 500 ED-Metal tape would be longer than a
regular 500 Beta tape (???).
>ED-Beta, from all I've heard and read, is a fabulous format. Unfortunately,
>IMHO, I don't think it is wise to get into ED-Beta because it is not
>well supported by even its maker, Sony. SVHS and Hi-8, which do not
>perform quite as well as ED-Beta, have much broader support among manufacturers
>and post-production studios. I have actually seen the special tape
>for sale in a variety of stores.
Sadly, you are probably correct. ED-Beta really looks *GOOD* though.
At least it's the best NTSC'ish thing (not quite NTSC ;-) I've seen.
Hi-8 might be a better choice.
>I speak as an early Betaphile. I bought a portable Beta system in '82.
>A fine system, but an unwise move. Certainly a white elephant in a
>VHS world.
The only disadvantage of Beta right now is movie rentals. You can
still buy brand new Sony Beta and Super-Beta machines and blank tapes
are still available in most places. I already have a VHS machine for
rentals. I don't like my VHS machine for a variety of reasons and I
was thinking about getting a better VHS or SVHS or even Beta just for
recording. ED-Beta is a little out of my financial league but I still
find it interesting to check out. If I was into making my own videos
(particularly for money), I think I'd go with ED-Beta and just try to
stock up on tapes while I could still get them. Even for doing things
like weddings, birthdays and what-have-you, you can shoot and do
editing in ED-Beta and put out the final product in VHS and the final
product will be better than if it was shot in VHS because you don't
have the loss from copying for edits. All this is assuming you can
deal with a 15lbs camera.
--Bill Davidson
Mark Crispin
>>Another question I had that he couldn't answer and is not in the
>>brochure is how long can you play the various tapes? What lengths
>>are ED-Metal tapes available in? He only had one size (I think it
>>was 250). The brochure's show 500's. Are 750's available?
I have heard rumor of EL-750 tapes for sale in Japan. Since the
equivalent lengths Betacam SP tape exists, it's purely marketing
considations.
>some recent videophile beta machines have
>re-introduced [Beta I], so I don't know specifically what the ED machines
>have.
The original Beta I format is more or less extinct today except in
certain professional applications. Beta Is (Hi-Band Beta I) is a
high-quality consumer format supported by the SLHF-1000 and certain
camcorders.
The current ED Beta models can play Beta I and Beta Is tapes. There
is no such thing as ED Beta I. I asked a friend of mine (who works
for Sony as an ED Beta developer) about this once. Sony employees are
very tight-lipped about company secrets, and my friend is no
exception; but from what I heard there would be no gain in having an
ED Beta format in the Beta I speed.
>I can't remember ever seeing ED-Beta tape available anywhere.
Most Tower Video stores carry ED Beta tape.
_____ | ____ ___|___ /__ Mark Crispin, 206 842-2385, R90/6 pilot, DoD#0105
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Hee, dakedo UNIX nanka wo tsukatte, umaku ikanakute mo shiranai yo.
Mark Crispin
>The reason I asked this question is that somehow I got it into my head
>that in ED-Beta mode, the tape transport moves faster.
>The brochure says that regular Beta machines won't even
>accept ED-Metal tapes. They'll spit them back out as soon as you
>insert them. Also, the ED-Beta machines will revert to Beta or
>Super-Beta mode if you stick a regular tape into them. It won't even
>attempt to record in ED-Beta mode on a regular tape.
This is all true.
My SLHF-5200 spits out an ED Beta tape immediately. My SL-2000 will
attempt to play an ED Beta tape, but the result is unwatchable.
>Hi-8 might be a better choice.
This is perhaps true. I see Hi-8 (not 8mm) as a good migration path
from Beta. Hi-8 is not cheap though.
I am planning to get Hi-8 once software starts becoming available in
that format.
Bill Davidson
>The reason I asked this question is that somehow I got it into my head
>that in ED-Beta mode, the tape transport moves faster.
In article <33...@milton.acs.washington.edu> m...@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>This is not the case. The speed is the same.
Oops. I just looked at the brochure again. I misunderstood it before.
You are right. In ED-Beta mode it will record at either BII or BIII
speed. The same goes for Beta mode. In addition to playing back those
speeds, it will also play back BI and BIs.
--Bill Davidson (desperately trying to talk myself out of buying one
of these beasts and having trouble doing so)
Mark Newton-John
There are two lengths available at the moment,
EL-250 BII 1hr BIII 1hr 30m
EL-500 BII 2hr BIII 3hr
There is an EL-125 in Japan, BII 30m BIII 45m.
As far as I know, there are no EL-750s.
--
Mark Newton-John
(ames att sun)!pacbell! \ Sakura-mendo, CA
ucdavis!csusac! - sactoh0!mfolivo
Mark Newton-John
> I can't remember ever seeing ED-Beta tape available anywhere.
>
> ED-Beta, from all I've heard and read, is a fabulous format. Unfortunately,
> IMHO, I don't think it is wise to get into ED-Beta because it is not
> well supported by even its maker, Sony. SVHS and Hi-8, which do not
> perform quite as well as ED-Beta, have much broader support among manufacturers
> and post-production studios. I have actually seen the special tape
> for sale in a variety of stores.
>
thing, but no one can ever tell me what they want in "support". Do
you want Sony to hold your hand? What do you do, professional
edits? Well, use Betacam or U-matic SP, it's better suited. ED Beta
is more a semi-professional format, our company has sold ED Beta
VCRs and cameras to those that do wedding and training videos, who
can't afford to get Betacam or U-Matic. And of course, those who
want the best video.
You can get ED Beta tapes if you look for it, we are a major
retailer in Northern California and Nevada (soon to be Los Angeles)
and we have no trouble getting blank tapes.
However, there is a local retailer that has the EL-250 tapes, but
they havn't a clue. I asked one guy how much they were, he looked
around and just said, "Uh, about $4." Utterly clueless. So, if
anyone else wants EL-250s for $4, let me know. (They usualy cost
around $16 each)
Mark Newton-John
Here's a few things to clear the air about ED Beta.
When they introduced Super HiBand Beta (6.0 MHz) with the new Beta
Is speed to improve standard Beta, they devised ED Beta to improve
BII and BIII recording, and to better record any future HDTV...
Because ED Beta uses metal particle tape, standard Beta VCRs can't
use them, that's why they spit them out. It would destroy the
heads. ED Beta records SuperBeta (5.4MHz) on standard Beta tapes,
because you can't record a ED Beta signal (9.0MHz) on oxide tape.
Tape speeds are the same, BIs 4.0 cm/sec, BII 2.0 cm/sec,
BIII 1.33 cm/sec.
Correction, ED Beta is 9.3MHz.
ED Beta records in BII and BIII speeds, and will playback BI, BIs
speeds.
Luminance carrier frequencies:
Beta 4.8MHz
SuperBeta 5.6MHz (correction from 5.4, oops)
SuperHiBand Beta 6.0MHz
ED Beta 9.3MHz
Norm Strong
}
}There are two lengths available at the moment,
}EL-250 BII 1hr BIII 1hr 30m
}EL-500 BII 2hr BIII 3hr
}
}There is an EL-125 in Japan, BII 30m BIII 45m.
}As far as I know, there are no EL-750s.
While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the meaning of the
numbers in L-750, 500, etc. is? I know that the T-120 plays for
120minutes, etc. But, I don't know where the numbers for Beta tape come
from.
--
Norm Strong (str...@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st So., Seattle WA 98144
Andrew Lindh
> In article <30...@sactoh0.UUCP> mfo...@sactoh0.UUCP (Mark Newton-John) writes:
> While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the meaning of the
> numbers in L-750, 500, etc. is? I know that the T-120 plays for
> 120minutes, etc. But, I don't know where the numbers for Beta tape come
> from.
NTSC PAL/SECAM
Length BI BII BIII BI BII BIII
----------------------------------------------------------------------
L-125 15m 30m 45m 16m 33m 47m
L-250 30m 1h 1h30m 33m 1h5m 1h37m
L-370 45m 1h30m 2h15m 47m 1h35m 2h22m
L-500 1h 2h 3h 1h5m 2h10m 3h15m
L-750 1h30m 3h 4h30m 1h37m 3h15m 4h52m
L-830 1h40m 3h20m 5h 1h47m 3h35m 5h22m
L-750 is Length 750 feet or 222 Meters (well almost....)
Note: Most tapes are longer than they say they are. You might get 3h5m
on a BII NTSC L-750. I have never had less time than stated. Not all lengths
of tape are sold everywhere.....I have never seen a L-370 in the USA.
There is nothing longer than the L-830, and nothing shorter than the L-125
And yes....I do have a Betamax
--
Andrew Lindh, a student at the University of Hartford -- Computer Science
BITNET: LI...@HARTFORD.bitnet INTERNET: li...@uhasun.uofh.edu
UUCP/Usenet: li...@evecs.uucp ---- When will I grduate???
NOTE: All views here are MINE!!! Not the schools or thoes of anyone else!
David Mears
> numbers in L-750, 500, etc. is? I know that the T-120 plays for
> 120minutes, etc. But, I don't know where the numbers for Beta tape come
> from.
>
> 2528 31st So., Seattle WA 98144
Well, let's see. T-120 stands for Time-120 minutes. For Beta, L-750
stands for Length-750 somethings. I don't know what the unit of length
is, but I'm sure someone out there does. I also wouldn't be surprised
if was on the box. One should also be able to calculate it from the
previously posted Beta speeds and knowing that L-750 tapes run for 1.5 hr
at Beta I speed.
David B. Mears
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino CA
hplabs!hpda!mears
me...@hpda.HP.COM