IDE Drives for Digital Video??
KH
I have always been under the impression that one must use SCSI ultra wide
drives for quality desktop video with tools like the DV-300. Yesterday I
read the German video forums and found in Germany many people are
successfully using IDE drives.
Ketil Albertsen
Not *any* old 1990 model IDE! The good thing about IDE standards
is that you have so many to choose from...
The most recent IDE version has a peak transfer rate of 33 Mbytes/sec.
Most new PCs/motherboards with a performance that is of interrest in
video work provides this IDE variant on the motherboard.
While you can get SCSI interfaces with a peak rate of 40 Mbytes/sec,
most stop at 20 Mbytes/sec today. And it really doesn't matter that
much, as the majority of disks can't keep up with those interface
speeds anyway.
I am generally in favor of SCSI, but when I later this year will
buy a new PC for video editing, it will be with IDE disks.
Richard Oppenheimer
I use a Quantum 8.4 GB Fireball SE EIDE drive with my DV300 and it works
just fine.
KH wrote in message <6mvg66$i...@newsops.execpc.com>...
Roger S. Mabon
Take a look at the new VideoRaid pci from Medéa Corporation. These
high-performance, low-cost disk arrays use Ultra-ATA technology and easily
outperform SCSI based arrays.
David Roth Weiss
The answer to your question is simple, if you even ask this question it
means that you are not a professional. If you aren't a pro you needn't worry
about the difference between IDE and SCSI. No professional would be caught
dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the essence of
the issue. Since you don't need broadcast quality I recommend that you save
your money and go with IDE.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
PETERWOJ
I think the biggest problem with IDE is that they use CPU for transfer data
from HD to memeory. There is the setting for DMA which should improve things a
bit. If you use CPU for anything else (like compression) things realy get out
of hand. Also don't forget about HD thermal calibration and Windows overhead.
SCSI drive has all hardware on board and uses very little CPU time for transfer
(just to set up the transfer). Also operating system is usualy on IDE drive so
even if Windows does the housekeeping it doesnt try to access the SCSI drive.
The transfer rate quoted is theoretical burst rate for the interface. Actual
sustein transfer rate is nowhere near max 40 MB/s for SCSI and 33 MB/s for
IDE. Even if you have dedicated drive for video if it is IDE you have to share
the CPU time with the other drive anytime Windows need the operating System on
it (like accessing swap file ).Just to give you an idea in 1985 they had
computer called Amiga running 8Mhz CPU and SCSI drive which could capture full
screen video no problem then. Well 13 yrs and 300 Mhz later you still have a
problem to do it on out of box PC. I guess the more things change the more they
stay the same. PS. I guess Apple's Mac should do full video capture out of box
with no problem too.
CHill1950
>.Just to give you an idea in 1985 they had
>computer called Amiga running 8Mhz CPU and SCSI drive which could capture
>full
>screen video no problem then. Well 13 yrs and 300 Mhz later you still have a
>problem to do it on out of box PC.
Nice to see someone remembers the Amiga . It's fascintating that now that
enough computers are being used at home there is a market for video editing.
Amiga did that stuff so easily so long ago, and output NTSC video with no
accelerator card or converter. If only...
Leebo
>The answer to your question is simple, if you even ask this question it
>means that you are not a professional. If you aren't a pro you needn't worry
>about the difference between IDE and SCSI. No professional would be caught
>dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the essence of
>the issue. Since you don't need broadcast quality I recommend that you save
>your money and go with IDE.
>
>David Roth Weiss
>Director/Editor
>David Weiss Productions, Inc.
>Los Angeles
>
Now go away and don't speak again, mortal!
Remove nospam from email address.
Chimerix
"David Roth Weiss" <drw.pro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>The answer to your question is simple, if you even ask this question it
>means that you are not a professional. If you aren't a pro you needn't worry
>about the difference between IDE and SCSI. No professional would be caught
>dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the essence of
>the issue. Since you don't need broadcast quality I recommend that you save
>your money and go with IDE.
>
Of course you're right... no Professional would pay attention to
little things like drive specs, and notice that new IDE drives perform
in hte same ballpark as SCSI drives. No Professional would consider a
cost-saving alternative when they could just throw money at a
solution. No Professional would dare admit that broadcast quality is
a vague term at best, and is usually determined by viewers on 300-line
televisions at the end of 20 year old cable plants. And no
Professional would even think to use an low-end NLE as an offline
system.
Admittedly, IDEs won't handle the throughput for high-end formats.
the 50mpbs of Digital-S would stutter and choke. However, there are
lots of professional applications that don't demand uncompressed D-1
quality.
Sorry if I'm cranky... teh demon child next door has me moving a
couple of hours too early for my confort.
Tom G
Chaminade U
Roger S. Mabon
I find your post quite curious.
A little background on developments in IDE disk technology:
1) The new IBM Deskstar 16GP drives are the first to incorporate Giant
Magneto-Resistive head technology (GMR). This cutting-edge technology (not
yet available in SCSI drives) allows arial densities of 3.38 GB/disk.
Compare this to the 1.52 GB/disk for the newest Seagate Cheetah.
2) Ultra-ATA currently supports burst transfer rates to 33 MB/second. 66
MB/second versions will be available in Q4 98.
3) Ultra-ATA drives are now available in 7200 RPM versions.
4) Single drives available as large as 16.8 GB.
What does all of this mean to the video editor? Bottom line is that
Ultra-ATA drive technology is enabling professional quality non-linear video
storage subsystems at rock bottom prices.
Medéa Corporation is leveraging these new developments in Ultra-ATA drive
technology to supply the non-linear editing community with a line of
high-speed, low-cost disk arrays. Our newest product called VideoRaid pci
is capable of supporting broadcast quality video at prices SIGNIFICANTLY
less than competing SCSI solutions.
VideoRaid pci is compatible with the newest dual-stream, real-time effects
boards such as the Matrox Digisuite LE, Pinnacle ReelTime and TARGA
2000RTX...all broadcast quality hardware!
Medéa engineers are responsible for the first SCSI AV drives, the first
comercially available RAIDs and the industries first video server. We know
SCSI...but have strategically invested in the future of video storage using
Ultra-ATA technology.
More info at www.medeacorp.com
Sincerely,
Roger S. Mabon
Director of Marketing
Medéa Corporation
David Roth Weiss wrote in message <6n1sh6$f...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>The answer to your question is simple, if you even ask this question it
>means that you are not a professional. If you aren't a pro you needn't
worry
>about the difference between IDE and SCSI. No professional would be caught
>dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the essence of
>the issue. Since you don't need broadcast quality I recommend that you save
>your money and go with IDE.
>
>David Roth Weiss
>Director/Editor
>David Weiss Productions, Inc.
>Los Angeles
>
>
Pertti Ahjokivi
On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:38:18 -0700, "Roger S. Mabon" <rma...@medeacorp.com>
wrote:
>Medéa Corporation is leveraging these new developments in Ultra-ATA drive
>technology to supply the non-linear editing community with a line of
>high-speed, low-cost disk arrays. Our newest product called VideoRaid pci
>is capable of supporting broadcast quality video at prices SIGNIFICANTLY
>less than competing SCSI solutions.
But what do you have to offer in below $200USD range ?
Do you have a retail network in Europe ?
Best Regards,
Pertti Ahjokivi
Roger S. Mabon
Our disk arrays start at around $899USD street price for an internal
VideoRaid 9si (9 GB). This device is fater than a single SCSI drive since it
SUSTAINS 10 MB/second over the entire storage capacity. This performance is
attributed to our patented Zone Stripe Technology and integrated RAID
controller.
Not only is VideoRaid 9si faster than a 9 GB SCSI drive but it is less
costly since it attaches directly to the IDE connection on any Pentium
motherboard. No host adapter is required!
We sell through distributors in Europe. Info on these distributors is
avaialble at www.medeacorp.com
Sincerely,
Roger S. Mabon
Medéa Corporation
Pertti Ahjokivi wrote in message <3595351b...@news.kolumbus.fi>...
Mark Robinson
Buggy, that's all I have to say. I have built about 6 SCSI NLE with a
variety of hardware ranging from FAST to AVID and don't seem to have
problems with SCSI. I helped a friend (on a budget) build one with IDE. We
had all the specs right, but the system was very unstable. He got
frustrated and we upped him to UW SCSI and he has been buzzing along every
since. I would consider myself a proffesional.
PETERWOJ
>Nice to see someone remembers the Amiga . >It's fascintating that now that
>enough computers are being used at home >there is a market for video editing.
>Amiga did that stuff so easily so long ago, and >output NTSC video with no
accelerator card >or converter
Ohio in fall. But the best might yet to come. Gateway owns the right to Amiga
now (Yeah the one with Cows) and I heard than owner of Gateway is no friend of
Bill G. So they develop Amiga on new plarform with updated operating system as
we speak. 1999 - Year of Intel's Merced might be Year of Amiga also.They will
not use Merced , is not powerfull enough. And since Merced will have to
emulate X86 in software any new chip have chance to compete with it on same
terms. At least we might have some other options beside Wintel and Apple.
SimMike
I think EIDE works great for non-linear video. From reading various posts, I
think one area where SCSI might be better is when you are using something
like the DC30 "Instant Video" option. In this scenario your computer is
trying to seamlessly piece together many different AVI files, SCSI might
handle this slightly better than UDMA drives. Don't know if this is true. I
always recommend people start with one 6.4 gig UDMA drive dedicated to
video. Many times this meets their needs, and doesn't drop frames or lose
audio sync. They can always open their wallet for SCSI later on, and the
UDMA drive is excellent video storage space, at minimum.
Mike
Gary Pollard <2001...@email.msn.com> wrote in message ...
>I have been using IDE for DV editing for some time now. It works fine. I
>have never had a frame dropped.
>
>Gary
Bill
SimMike wrote:
>
> I think EIDE works great for non-linear video. From reading various posts, I
> think one area where SCSI might be better is when you are using something
> like the DC30 "Instant Video" option. In this scenario your computer is
> trying to seamlessly piece together many different AVI files, SCSI might
> handle this slightly better than UDMA drives. Don't know if this is true. I
> always recommend people start with one 6.4 gig UDMA drive dedicated to
> video. Many times this meets their needs, and doesn't drop frames or lose
> audio sync. They can always open their wallet for SCSI later on, and the
> UDMA drive is excellent video storage space, at minimum.
>
> Mike
Just to add to this,I just upgraded to a dc30+ and decided to get a
Fasttrak controller with 2 maxtor 7.2 gig drives.The fasttrak and the two drives
where cheaper than buying a single 9 gig scsii drive and they out performed my current
baracuda drive!I've had no problem capturing and outputting at 6 megs per second and
the settup has been flawless at making a 35 minute movie at 4 megs per second with
instant video.
I can definately say a UDMA drive can do the job ( at least in conjunction
with a fasttrak controller).
Bill J.
Gary Pollard
Gary Pollard
Nonsense
It can put enough data through to make sure you do not lose frames or it
cannot.
If it can, and if you're using DV, it's professional broadcastable
quality
Gary
David Roth Weiss wrote in message
<6n1sh6$f...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>The answer to your question is simple, if you even ask this question it
>means that you are not a professional. If you aren't a pro you needn't
worry
>about the difference between IDE and SCSI. No professional would be
caught
>dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the
essence of
>the issue. Since you don't need broadcast quality I recommend that you
save
>your money and go with IDE.
>
>David Roth Weiss
>Director/Editor
>David Weiss Productions, Inc.
>Los Angeles
>
>
kmh
dead using anything but UW SCSI because broadcast quality is the essence of
the issue. <<
We just finished editing a documentary for Channel 5 (UK). EIDE all the way.