Thoughts on Sony SLV R5 vs R1000
Allen Braunsdorf
I've been using R5s since they camne out, and I've had
numerous (but reparable) mechanical problems with them.
The repair guys always say I work them too hard, which
doesn't sound right to me, but I've lived with it because
I love the features and performace of the machines when
they're working.
I decided it was time to buy a new deck a couple of years
ago and got a JVC (6900, I think), which I am not happy with
for several reasons, but it was relatively cheap and I use
it for some stuff. No mechanical trouble, I'll admit, but
the playback quality, the sound, and the user interface bite
compared to any of my Sonys.
The other day, I decided to try an R1000. Overall, I like
it, but I have a couple of problems with it:
The remote bites. I usually use the remote from my 676 on
my Sonys, and one of the R5 ones when I need it (I like the
R5 remote, but it's too big to use all the time). The lack
of a FF or REW key is a big lose, and the layout is not
agreeing with me. The STOP key, for instance, is much too
eay to hit by accident.
There doesn't seem to be a good way to move to a desired
frame in record-pause mode. That's going to make editing
a bear. The R5 has a jog wheel on the console for that
purpose, and it works great. All the R1000 has is that
silly shuttle on both the remote and the console (or the
equivalent keys on the old remote).
The on-screen display seems to bloom a little. It's clearly
a different character generator than the older machines,
but it also seems to be worse. I also think I'm seeing some
artifacts from the picture enhancement, but I haven't tested
it enough to confirm that.
Overall, it seems to be a "watchers" VCR, and it seems to
do that really well. I'm not sure it's up to snuff for
editing, though.
Can anyone who's using R1000s tell me how much they
(dis)like them? How do the mechanicals hold up? Can you
do clean accurate edits? Would you rather have an R5?
ab
SYSTEM MANAGER
In <5kadbm$7...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> a...@purdue.edu writes:
> Can anyone who's using R1000s tell me how much they
> (dis)like them? How do the mechanicals hold up? Can you
> do clean accurate edits? Would you rather have an R5?
It appears that recent Sony VHS machines are not made in Japan, and according
to posts in this group, the mechanisms are no longer designed by Sony, but are
low quality purchased units. Reports a few months ago were that the
mechanicals failed much more frequently. All in all, I'm a Sony VCR and TV
fan, but am wondering what mechanicals are inside the higher end R1000, and
even the regular VHS 940/960,9whatever series. I'm due for a replacement and
would look elsewhere if the Sonys are no longer well made (preferably in
Japan).
Can anybody shed some light on this, and if you have one, check the manufacture
plate on the back of the unit for its place of origin? Also, if you have one,
would you buy it AGAIN? Reason either way?
Thanks!
Dave Kelley
Bill Mattos
In article <5kadbm$7...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, a...@purdue.edu (Allen
Braunsdorf) wrote:
> Can anyone who's using R1000s tell me how much they
> (dis)like them? How do the mechanicals hold up? Can you
> do clean accurate edits? Would you rather have an R5?
>
> ab
ab:
Can't speak to the R5 or the R1000, but when I retired my favorite editing
machine (a Sony SL-HF1000 beta VCR) last year, I spent a lot of time and
energy looking for a replacement. The R1000 was leading the pack because I
wanted an S-VHS machine that accepted the Lanc editing control protocol,
which limited me to Sony. When all was said and done, I wound up buying a
Sony SVO-2000, which is very similar (most if not all of the controls seem
to be identical) to the R1000, except that it's manufactured by Sony's
industrial division. (Exactly what that means and how it impacts the final
product is anyone's guess.) At any rate, I've had the SVO-2000 for about a
year now and am very pleased with the results. I've used it extensively
and had no problems with it whatsoever. The remote control poses no
problem for me as I sit close to my editing bench and use the buttons and
switches on the front of the VCR. I have no problem whatsoever lining up
my recorded master on a specific frame using the jog shuttle on the VCR.
Although I would opt for a "brand new" SL-HF1000 beta editing VCR over
anything else that's currently out there if given the opportunity, the
SVO-2000 is the next best thing at this point in time as far as I'm
concerned.
Keep in mind, however, that the way things work when it comes to video
prices, we may be able to purchase an editing "digital" VCR ("no loss" of
quality when editing) for $1,000 to $1,500 a year or two from now. Sony
just introduced one that's priced around $4,500, and you know how fast
prices can fall.
Bill
A Braunsdorf
SYS...@UHAVAX.HARTFORD.EDU (SYSTEM MANAGER) wrote:
>Can anybody shed some light on this, and if you have one, check the
manufacture
>plate on the back of the unit for its place of origin?
All my VCRs I just checked say they were made in Japan: Sony's 676,
R5, and R1000 models , and a JVC 6900U.
ab
Bruce Barrett
Allen Braunsdorf wrote:
>
> bil...@home.com (Bill Mattos) wrote:
> >When all was said and done, I wound up buying a
> >Sony SVO-2000, which is very similar (most if not all of the controls seem
> >to be identical) to the R1000, except that it's manufactured by Sony's
> >industrial division. (Exactly what that means and how it impacts the final
> >product is anyone's guess.)
>
> 2000 are the same machine, but the latter has BNC connectors
> on it. That'd be handy, but for $500 more, I can make do
> with adaptors (or S-video for most stuff, actually).
>
> Does anyone know any different? I mean, I know it's made
> and sold by the "Business and Professional Group", but it
> has the same number of ins, outs, features, displays,
> everything as far as I can tell. I'd say it's a marketing
> move more than a technical one.
>
> (And what does a "Business and Professional" client need
> with a cable mouse? That's a consumer-level feature if I've
> ever seen one.)
>
> Thanks for all the comments, everybody. Word on the R1000
> seems to be universally good, on the R5 less so (but I know
> that from personal experience).
>
> abaB, DOES YOUR 2000 HAVE A TUNER/TIMER AND SIMILAR CONSUMER FEATURES. MY
EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT THO THE CORE DECK MAY BE THE SAME FOR AN
INDUSTRIAL AND CONSUMER DECK, THE CONSUMER CONVENIENCE FEATURES ARE
MISSING. ALSO, AT LEAST IN PANASONIC LINES, THE INDUSTRIAL STUFF DOES
NOT "SEE" MACROVISION OR COPYGUARD, WHILE THE CONSUMER DECK DOES?
THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER. BRUCE
Allen Braunsdorf
Kurtis Bahr
Allen Braunsdorf wrote:
>
> bil...@home.com (Bill Mattos) wrote:
> >When all was said and done, I wound up buying a
> >Sony SVO-2000, which is very similar (most if not all of the controls seem
> >to be identical) to the R1000, except that it's manufactured by Sony's
> >industrial division. (Exactly what that means and how it impacts the final
> >product is anyone's guess.)
>
> As far as I can tell from Sony's literature, the 1000 and
> 2000 are the same machine, but the latter has BNC connectors
> on it. That'd be handy, but for $500 more, I can make do
> with adaptors (or S-video for most stuff, actually).
I do know that with the R1000 you get one rec level only for audio, the
SVO-2000 adds balance adjustments.
As for the R5 it has 2 quirks, the spindle motor warpage which the
replacement spindles are beefed up to correct this and the electroyltic
capacitors in the power supply going bad. The capacitors going bad are
directly related to the amount of ventilation allowed in the
installation. As long as you know the issues with the R5 being able to
correct them if encountered the R5 is definitely superior to the R1000.
Bill Davidson
>There doesn't seem to be a good way to move to a desired
>frame in record-pause mode. That's going to make editing
>a bear. The R5 has a jog wheel on the console for that
>purpose, and it works great. All the R1000 has is that
>silly shuttle on both the remote and the console (or the
>equivalent keys on the old remote).
I have both an SLV-757 and an SLV-R1000. The 757 is much like the R5
except that it's VHS instead of SVHS and it doesn't have a jog wheel.
It does allow you to move between frames in record-pause mode like the
R5 though. It's a nice feature. However, I've found that it will go
back about two frames from where you though it was. With the R1000, if
you use play-pause mode to find your desired frame and then hit record,
you still back up about two frames. This is workable for me most of
the time. It'd be better to have the R5/757 type behaviour but it's
not that big of a deal.
>Can anyone who's using R1000s tell me how much they
>(dis)like them? How do the mechanicals hold up? Can you
>do clean accurate edits? Would you rather have an R5?
I've had it almost a year and I use it about 15-20 hours per week.
It's holding up well so far. I don't know that I'd want an R5. My
757 has the same mechanical problems as the R5 and I hate dealing
with having it fixed all the damned time. If it was mechanically
sound, I probably would prefer the R5 because of the edit monitor
and the jog dial. I've also heard that the picture is better but
that's just hearsay as far as I'm concerned. The R1000 picture is
pretty good and it has an excellent comb filter.
In article <bilmat-0305...@c238058-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com>, Bill Mattos <bil...@home.com> wrote:
>Can't speak to the R5 or the R1000, but when I retired my favorite editing
>machine (a Sony SL-HF1000 beta VCR) last year, I spent a lot of time and
>energy looking for a replacement. The R1000 was leading the pack because I
>wanted an S-VHS machine that accepted the Lanc editing control protocol,
>which limited me to Sony. When all was said and done, I wound up buying a
>Sony SVO-2000, which is very similar (most if not all of the controls seem
>to be identical) to the R1000, except that it's manufactured by Sony's
>industrial division. (Exactly what that means and how it impacts the final
>product is anyone's guess.) At any rate, I've had the SVO-2000 for about a
>year now and am very pleased with the results. I've used it extensively
>and had no problems with it whatsoever. The remote control poses no
>problem for me as I sit close to my editing bench and use the buttons and
>switches on the front of the VCR. I have no problem whatsoever lining up
>my recorded master on a specific frame using the jog shuttle on the VCR.
Last year when I was looking into getting an SVHS VCR, I checked out
the differences and made a list. If it hadn't been for the fact that I
needed Sony edit protocol compatibility, I might have gone with the
Panasonic AG-1980 but the compatibility was a major priority for me so
I narrowed it to the SLV-R1000 and the SVO-2000. They are almost
identical. I chose the R1000 because I didn't feel the SVO-2000's
advantages were worth the extra $200 for me. So far, I don't regret
that decision. The R1000 has worked flawlessly. Anyway, here's the
list of differences that I made at the time:
1. The SVO-2000 has independant left and right audio record level
controls, The SLV-R1000 only has a single audio record level
control.
2. The SLV-R1000 has a mini-phono plug control-L port on the front.
The SVO-2000 instead has a 5 pin control port on the back for the
RM-250 edit controller. This port looks a lot like the 5 pin DIN
control-L port on my SLV-757 but according to the Sony rep. I talked
to it is not a control-L port and is not compatible with anything
but the RM-250. On the other hand, a review in Videomaker (see
http://www.videomaker.com/edit/mag/feb96/productp.htm) says they
used the rear 5 pin control-L with a Videonics controller with the
SVO-2000. The brochure gives the pinout and one of the pins
is labeled LANC. The pins are (1) DC OUT, (2) CTL with DC, (3) EE
out, (4) LANC signal, (5) GND. That sounds like control-L to me.
3. The rear composite video inputs and outputs use BNC connectors
instead of RCA jacks on the SVO-2000. There is no RCA video output
with the SVO-2000 and there is one RCA video input on the front
panel. The SLV-R1000 has all the same video inputs and outputs
except all use RCA for the composite jacks. All are available in
s-video as well in both decks (3 sets of inputs and 2 sets of
outputs). BNC->RCA converters are $2.99 at Radio Shack.
4. The SVO-2000 has a key inhibit switch. This deactivates all keys so
that you don't mess up operations (say during a big assemble edit).
5. The SVO-2000 has a headphone jack. The SLV-R1000 does not.
6. The SVO-2000 has both control-S input and control-S output. The
SLV-R1000 only has control-S input.
7. The SVO-2000 costs about $200 more than the SLV-R1000.
8. The SVO-2000 is easier to get via mail order ;-).
Here's the review that I posted a little after I received the R1000:
Some of you may have been following my search for an SVHS deck. I
ordered an SLV-R1000 from Camera World for $799.99 a little over a week
ago and received it a couple of days ago. I've been playing with it
over the weekend and I have a few comments for Sony and for people who
may be considering this deck.
I've heard reports of bad tuners. I must have gotten lucky. Mine
seems to work fine. It certainly works as well as any of the other
tuners I have (including my Sony KV27XBR15 TV).
I am very pleased with the record/playback quality. I'm used to
ED-Beta and Laserdisc and I would say that it's suprisingly close to
ED-Beta. Color is not quite as good but it's still not that bad. Test
recordings made from a laserdisc source are very good. Even time base
stability seems suprisingly good (actually a little better than my
ED-Beta deck in this respect). BTW, I've only been using SP so far.
I'm pleased with most of the features. I especially like having lots of
inputs and outputs.
Editing is a little weird. I'm using control-S from my EDV-9500.
End points are accurate to either 0 or 1 frames. That's the good
news. The bad news is that start points are 7 to 9 frames off. By
that I mean it starts recording 7-9 frames later than the edit point.
My SLV-757 was generally 2 to 3 frames off with both. At least it's
consistent enough that I can compensate by adjusting my edit points but
it seems like a big jump.
If you play back on the SVHS deck to find an initial start point it
will chop 2 frames back from where you went from pause to record.
Again, this can be compensated for and is similar to my SLV-757.
On to the actual complaints:
1. The damned door. I hated it on my SLV-757 and I hate it on my
SLV-R1000. Sony can't lose this fast enough in my opinion. It
looks like they're losing this feature on their newer VHS models
but the SLV-R1000 is the oldest deck in their consumer line and
it still has it.
2. The backlit LCD screen was a bad idea. LED's are better.
(a) The brightness is distracting; even on the dim setting
but it's unusable with the backlight off.
(b) Most of the information is unavailable when you close the
door.
(c) I can't tell what the little cassette symbol is doing
when I change operations unless I'm close to the deck. I
prefer big arrows.
(d) No color. My audio level LED's on my other decks go red
when you get over 0db.
3. The swing shuttle control that Sony has opted to control all
normal and variable speed playback is a pain to use for slow
motion. The buttons were much easier. There doesn't seem to be a
way to get it into the 2x speed without holding the damned shuttle
ring.
4. The usual list of missing features:
(a) Edit monitor (like the SLV-757 and SLV-R5).
(b) auto-clock set (like SLV-980HF)
(c) jog shuttle
(d) full frame digital TBC
(e) 3D adaptive comb filter
(f) an eject button on the remote
(g) separate control of linear audio tracks
(h) auxillary antenna input (like Mits)
(i) assemble editor (like the EDV-9500 but more segments please).
(j) time code (VITC)
(k) control-S out
(l) station-id (like SLV-980HF)
(m) station logo (like SLV-980HF)
(n) Starsight (like SLV-980HF)
(o) more timer events. 8 is not enough.
(p) timer titles (like the SLV-757)
Most of these complaints are pretty minor. Overall, I think I'm happy
with my choice although I'm going to get pretty pissed if they fix many
of these problems with a new model in the next few months considering
that a Sony rep told me that the SLV-R1000 is their only consumer SVHS
deck for the year.
As it happens they haven't come out with a new consumer SVHS deck in
the last year so I'm not pissed off. They did come out with an SVO-2100
which I haven't been able to get much information on. Apparently it's
a lot like the SVO-2000 with a few minor enhancements.
Since then, I've been using the R1000 in SVHS-EP mode a lot for time
shifting and archiving. I've been very pleased with its performance.
--Bill Davidson
pol...@hg.uleth.ca
In article <337143...@mssl.uswest.net>, Bruce Barrett <bbba...@mssl.uswest.net> writes:
>Allen Braunsdorf wrote:
>> Thanks for all the comments, everybody. Word on the R1000
>> seems to be universally good, on the R5 less so (but I know
>> that from personal experience).
>>
A few people I have talked to prefer the R5 even to the SVO2000 because
of what they claim are its superior editing capabilities. *Video* magazine gave
the R5 a superb review, but gave the R1000 a bad one.
>> abaB, DOES YOUR 2000 HAVE A TUNER/TIMER AND SIMILAR CONSUMER FEATURES. MY
>EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT THO THE CORE DECK MAY BE THE SAME FOR AN
>INDUSTRIAL AND CONSUMER DECK, THE CONSUMER CONVENIENCE FEATURES ARE
>MISSING. ALSO, AT LEAST IN PANASONIC LINES, THE INDUSTRIAL STUFF DOES
>NOT "SEE" MACROVISION OR COPYGUARD, WHILE THE CONSUMER DECK DOES?
>THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER. BRUCE
The 2000 has tuner/timer but apparently only BNC I/Os.
Bill Davidson
In article <5l1lnq$ga...@mars.online.uleth.ca>, <pol...@hg.uleth.ca> wrote:
> The 2000 has tuner/timer but apparently only BNC I/Os.
Not true.
All inputs and outputs have standard s-video connectors. All inputs
and outputs are also available in composite form. Input 1, input 3 and
both outputs use BNC for the composite connectors. An RCA connector is
used for composite input 2 (the front panel input). The total for
video connectors is 5 s-video, 4 BNC and 1 RCA.
BNC->RCA converters are available cheap at any Radio Shack.
--Bill Davidson
Kurtis Bahr
You can go to Radio Shack and buy a BNC to RCA adapter for a couple
bucks if this bothers you.