Hi8 vs S-VHS
Russell Shackelford
mistakes I might be making...... *IS* there any meaningful quality
difference between what Hi8 can do and what S-VHS can do?..... *IS*
there any downside to going Hi8 rather than S-VHS?..... *IS* there
any downside to the reverse, i.e., going S-VHS rather than Hi8?....
all opinions (informed and otherwise) are welcome and will be appreciated
thanks,
russ
--
Russell Shackelford
The College of Computing
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA, 30332
ru...@prism.gatech.edu (404) 834-4759
Paul K Johnson
>I think I'm pretty much sold on Hi8, but just so I'm aware of any
>mistakes I might be making...... *IS* there any meaningful quality
>difference between what Hi8 can do and what S-VHS can do?..... *IS*
>there any downside to going Hi8 rather than S-VHS?..... *IS* there
>any downside to the reverse, i.e., going S-VHS rather than Hi8?....
It seems that the quality arguments are really splitting hairs.
One dissapointment with Hi8 is the 4 hour limitation (versus 6
hours for S-VHS). Obviously the story is different with camcorders.
Also, the sound on Hi8 is nowhere close to VHS hifi, but for movies
it's probably very adequate.
paul johnson
Internet: pa...@sdd.hp.com
UUCP : {hplabs|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!paul
Stephen Tell
>In article <10...@hydra.gatech.EDU> ru...@prism.gatech.EDU (Russell Shackelford) writes:
>>I think I'm pretty much sold on Hi8, but just so I'm aware of any
>>mistakes I might be making...... *IS* there any meaningful quality
>>difference between what Hi8 can do and what S-VHS can do?..... *IS*
>>there any downside to going Hi8 rather than S-VHS?..... *IS* there
>>any downside to the reverse, i.e., going S-VHS rather than Hi8?....
>
>It seems that the quality arguments are really splitting hairs.
>One dissapointment with Hi8 is the 4 hour limitation (versus 6
>hours for S-VHS).
(if quality is of the utmost) Its nice to have the option, I suppose.
Is the 4 hours of Hi8 a slower-speed mode? What's the quality tradeoff
it if is?
> Obviously the story is different with camcorders.
>Also, the sound on Hi8 is nowhere close to VHS hifi, but for movies
>it's probably very adequate.
Are you speaking of the AFM (analog frequency modulated - like
VHS hi-fi) track(s) or the PCM (pulse-coded modulation - digital)
tracks? Some of the high-end sony Hi8 gear has one AFM track and two PCM
tracks.
>paul johnson >Internet: pa...@sdd.hp.com >UUCP:{hplabs|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!paul
If you have any thoughts of decks that interface to high-end editing gear, It
is likely that Sony's edit controllers (for example the RM-450, RM-650, or
BVE-910) will only talk to Sony decks. Of course, 3rd-party edit controllers
(Paltex, etc.) could probably mix & match manufacturers of machines if
you wanted SVHS and Umatic (which these days means Sony).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Tell te...@wsmail.cs.unc.edu
CS Grad Student, UNC Chapel Hill.
Former chief engineer, Duke Union Community Television, Durham, NC.
Paul K Johnson
>Are you speaking of the AFM (analog frequency modulated - like
>VHS hi-fi) track(s) or the PCM (pulse-coded modulation - digital)
>tracks? Some of the high-end sony Hi8 gear has one AFM track and two PCM
>tracks.
I believe that the PCM tracks, which are better than the AFM track, still
are not as good as the best of the hi-fi decks, but I'm not an expert!
Jan Bielawski
<Also, the sound on Hi8 is nowhere close to VHS hifi, but for movies
<it's probably very adequate.
??????????????????????????????? Could you elaborate? I thought
the AFM stereo sound on Hi8 is exactly the same as VHS Hi-Fi, if not better
(no extra audio heads, no depth recording).
If you meant the 8mm *digital* sound, I agree: it's only 8-bit,
with (gasp!) noise reduction.
Jan Bielawski Internet: jbiel...@ucsd.edu
Bitnet: jbiel...@ucsd.bitnet
Dept. of Math UUCP: jbiel...@ucsd.uucp
UCSD ( {ucsd,sdcsvax}!{igrad1,sdcc6}!ma299ai )
Al Bowers
>In article <1990Jul3.0...@sdd.hp.com> pa...@sdd.hp.com (Paul K Johnson) writes:
><Also, the sound on Hi8 is nowhere close to VHS hifi, but for movies
><it's probably very adequate.
> ??????????????????????????????? Could you elaborate? I thought
>the AFM stereo sound on Hi8 is exactly the same as VHS Hi-Fi, if not better
> If you meant the 8mm *digital* sound, I agree: it's only 8-bit,
>with (gasp!) noise reduction.
I was under the distinct impression that linear VHS audio gave about
40 db S/N, Hi-Fi VHS gave about 90 db S/N, 8mm AFM audio about 70 db
S/N and 8mm PCM audio about 90 db S/N? As for the frequency response
the PCM only gets out to about 16k hz, but it still ought to sound
pretty good. I think the multigenerational improvement in quality
would make PCM the way to go, even with the reduced frequency content,
IMHO.
Another opinion...
--
Albion H. Bowers bow...@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov!bowers
RP and Ainc
>mistakes I might be making...... *IS* there any meaningful quality
>difference between what Hi8 can do and what S-VHS can do?..... *IS*
>there any downside to going Hi8 rather than S-VHS?..... *IS* there
>any downside to the reverse, i.e., going S-VHS rather than Hi8?....
>
>all opinions (informed and otherwise) are welcome and will be appreciated
Are you talking about the tape formats for *distribution* media or
*acquisition* media. Hi-8 as an *acquisition* mastering media has
proven to be excellent. I wouldn't use it as a distribution media
howver. It would be somewhat of an overkill and not too many people
out there have the decks. For consumer-level stuff VHS or S-VHS
should be fine for a few more years. For broadcast distribution,
U-matic seems to be the format of choice.
By the way... The Hi-8 format, I believe, supports stereo hi-fi sound.
The current crop of cameras however do not support recording on
all tracks yet.
I was recently surprised in a pleasant manner mastering directly
onto Hi-8. As for time limits on Hi-8 tapes mentioned elsewhere:
again, Hi-8 for acquisition, S-VHS for distribution.
Let's not start a religious war here (:-)
Cheers.
Ramin F.
rp&A Inc.
San Francisco, CA.
Goldberg
>mistakes I might be making...... *IS* there any meaningful quality
>difference between what Hi8 can do and what S-VHS can do?..... *IS*
>there any downside to going Hi8 rather than S-VHS?..... *IS* there
>any downside to the reverse, i.e., going S-VHS rather than Hi8?....
You currently have four high-band format choices:
Super-VHS - 400+ line resolution, stereo hi-fi audio, mono linear
audio on most, Dolby Stereo linear audio on pro gear and JVC
high end consumer editing VCR. Same chroma (color) spec as
standard VHS. Cassettes similar to standard VHS in run time;
special tape formulation. Camcorders weigh at least 8 lbs.
Wide acceptance in low-end professional/industrial/special-
event coverage production; de facto standard for wedding video
production. Consumer acceptance sluggish.
S-VHS-C - compact version of above. Only 20 minutes of recording
at SP speed. Some users claim that visual scan is not very
good in this format. Tape not as well protected by C-cassette.
This cassette can be played in full-size machines using an
adapter.
Hi-band 8mm - similar resolution to SVHS. Some experts claim color
performance is superior to SVHS. Camcorders are lighter and
more compact than SVHS. The 8mm formats got a few improvements
the VHS and SVHS missed, like an improved method of tracking.
Varied methods of sound recording - AFM stereo and mono, PCM
stereo and mono, linear mono; depends on the manufacturer.
Some broadcasters see a niche for Hi-8 as an acquisition format,
particularly where professional braodcast Betacams won't pass
through the custom offices of third-world nations. The lightness
of this gear has been popular with some nature documentarians.
Where many professional post-production studios now handle
SVHS, few can deal with Hi-8. Sony has released a professional
Hi-8 feeder deck. Special tape required. Because of the high
recording density, cleanliness is crucial to avoid serious
dropouts.
Extended-Definition Beta - with its 500+ line resolution, this format
is the best of the bunch, technically speaking. Only one docking-
type camcorder (@ $7000) and two decks were released. Special
tape (hard to find) is needed. Sony seems to be focussing
on its Hi8 and U-matic SP formats at the expense of ED.
Bottom line: Forget ED-Beta. If you're planning a lot of travel footage,
seriously consider Hi8, but stock up on tape in advance. If you have
an SVHS VCR, then consider SVHSC for light travelling and compatibility.
If you plan to use your camcorder for playing back movies and the regular
or Super VHS tapes of others, then go SVHS. If planning to get into
any type of paid production work, the current answer is SVHS because
you can easily find rent-by-hour editing rooms to work in that format.
Assuming you plan no professional use and already have a VHS machine
at home, I'd recommend the Hi-8. Sony has a new multi-featured camcorder
that's fabulous. I've carried a full size SVHS camcorder around Disney
World for a day and I can tell you, it spend the balance of the vacation
locked up in my hotel room! I'd rather buy the touristabilia footage
- or use Hi8 - than carry a big camcorder around for ten hours!
I've given a lot of info here which I hope the original poster - or
other readers will find useful. Cut-and-dry answers evade videographers.
But it helps to understand the issues.
meel-...@hotmail.com
erik.m....@gmail.com
> why not travel in time and get a HD camera?
wallyb...@gmail.com
john.r.c...@gmail.com
In 1991 got the Fuji X H80 Hi8 (replaced the "Back to the Future" JVC VHS-C). It was a huge improvement. I used that camcorder for almost 9 years (some film projects, mostly family videos) and my only regret was that I didn't upgrade sooner to a Hi8 with image stabilization which came out shortly after the FujiX H80. In hindsight, Although those old Hi8 tapes lacked image stabilization, inexpensive video editing tools can easily (with some slight image quality loss)fix most problems. That Hi8 camcorder was in use longer than any camcorder I had before or since. I had SVHS VCR recorders but never felt a need to go with SVHS acquisition.
Fast forward (an old audio tape deck, VCR concept) 30 years and we're now looking at 8K camcorders... At this point, consumer 4K acquisition is working for me - at least for now.
I feel like I've been "back to the future". Ha
python...@yahoo.com
> why not travel in time and get a HD camera?