Continuous VHS Tape
...
Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
cycling through when you play it? I need one for a marketing video, so
that I can leave it running unattended. I've heard that they exist, but
have no idea where to look to find one.
Any help would be appreciated.
Tbmpvideo
>I've heard that they exist, but have no idea where to look to find one.<
These looping VHS tapes, like alligators in the sewers, do not exist and have
never existed as far as I know.
Chris Hurd
Howdy from Texas,
... wrote in message <353E73...@wgl.net>...
>Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
>tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
>cycling through when you play it? I need one for a marketing video, so
>that I can leave it running unattended
Your best bet might be to pick up an inexpensive consumer VCR from
some place like Best Buy for around $200. Look for a feature which
most have, called "auto rewind/auto repeat" that will cycle the tape
for you by itself. To save wear on the VCR transport motor, record
your short video over and over to a two-hour tape (takes awhile
but you only do it once).
Hope this helps,
Chris Hurd
San Marcos, TX
jrs
That you had to record back to back and fill up a tape. So I'm interested
in replies to your post.
Joe
... wrote:
> Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
> tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
> cycling through when you play it? I need one for a marketing video, so
> that I can leave it running unattended. I've heard that they exist, but
> have no idea where to look to find one.
>
Rick Johnston
The ballistics of the consumer VHS machines preclude this from happening.
Your best bet is to make a two-hour "repeater" which will rewind at trade
shows for about five minutes every two hours. Or you could spend the extra
bux to burn a laser disc and have a media that's infinitely repeatable and
not infinitely reliable. In short, there is no reliable means in the long
haul. Twenty passes, and it's about time to either change to a new tape or
air condition the LD player.
Regards,
Rick Johnston
Ent/Gates Productions
http://www.entgates.com
jrs wrote in message <353E8FA9...@neo.lrun.com>...
...
Well, in any case, thanks for putting the myth to rest.
Phil
Most of my clients find that a 20-30 min. VHS tape works best. A 2 hr. tape can take in excess of 4 min. to rewind. A 20 or 30 takes only a minute to re-cue. The less time that monitor is blank in your booth the better.
--
Phil E.
director/editor.
Rob4Play
Sorry, you have to record the segment over and over and over and over and,
finaly, over.
Rick Johnston
To my knowledge, they don't exist. The ballistics of the deck and design of
the tape case preclude this from ever being a cost-effective (read:
"marketable") product. You've probably seen "repeaters" -- one- or two-hour
tapes that have ten-minute shows repeating over & over. (Thank God for
non-linear's "loop play" feature!)
Regards,
Rick Johnston
Ent/Gates Productions
http://www.entgates.com
... wrote in message <353E73...@wgl.net>...
Steve Guidry
> Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
> tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
> cycling through when you play it? I need one for a marketing video, so
> that I can leave it running unattended. I've heard that they exist, but
> have no idea where to look to find one.
>
Sorry, the don't exist. What you need is a long tape with your 10 minute
program recorded on it several times one after another. combine that with
a
VCR/TV that automatically rewinds and plays, and the effect is the same.
steve
Larry Mitchell
... wrote:
>
> Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
> tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
> cycling through when you play it?
OK, I have seen the replies to this post and I feel a need to put my
2-cents worth in...
IT DOES EXIST!
I however, do not know where to get one. A client, White Castle
Restaurants, recently brought in a :30 spot recorded on a continous loop
VHS tape. The shell appeared to be set up much like an audio cart with
only one tape hub - the other side was solid (no window) so I cannot say
what was inside. This tape proved difficult to edit (they wanted a
single frame captured) because the tape tension did not remain constant.
But it most certainly was in my edit room - My editor called me in to
look at it because she had never had a tension problem like this
before...
-Larry Mitchell
MAVRICK! Productions
Columbus, Ohio
Brad J. Kenyon
I have never seen this and if it does exist, will it fit a normal player
deck? In regards to the question, it is actually a function of the VCR- you
need a "Repeat" function on your
player- you edit a loop tape- I recommend no longer than a 30-60 minutes
long.
(For a 30, you have a 5 min. program back to back- 6 times). 30 minute
tapes have
faster re-run time- but they put more wear and tear on your machine- so
rent a combo unit so you don't have to lug the thing all over the
convention center.
Brad Kenyon
Smokey Roberts Film & Video
----------
Larry Mitchell <mavrickpr...@ameritech.net> wrote in article
<354347...@ameritech.net>...
Jeff Jackson
Try Spy Shops, or some similar security company. A lot
of surveillance setups use continuous loop tapes.
--
><> Jeffrey Glen Jackson, son of Albert, son of George, son of <><
><> Henry, son of Miles, son of Randolph, son of Ephraim, son of <><
><> Thomas, son of John, son of Thomas, .... sonne of Jack. <><
http://jgjackson.home.mindspring.com
Satan jeered, "You're dead meat Jesus, I'm gonna bust you up tonight."
Jesus said, "Go ahead, make my day." -- Carman, "The Champion"
Brad J. Kenyon
It is a function of the VCR- what you do is edit a loop tape and then run
the snot out of it. The longer the tape, the more re-run time. The shorter,
the more wear & tear on the machine- Answer: do a 30-60 minute loop, rent a
combo unit and you're set.
El Jay <no-...@here.now> wrote in article
<6i2vfj$a...@ecuador.earthlink.net>...
> Between gulps of coffee, Jeff Jackson <jgja...@mindspring.com> told the
> world:
> >Try Spy Shops, or some similar security company. A lot
> >of surveillance setups use continuous loop tapes.
>
> Continuous loop VHS tapes _do not exist_
>
> Larry Jandro
> [ My address is munged courtesy of ]
> [ Spamrats and their harvesters. ]
> [ Use larry/at/ljvideo/dot/com ]
>
Bill Davis
In article <01bd7246$b9cdee80$87fa07d0@wolfgang>, "Brad J. Kenyon"
<volp...@desupernet.net> wrote:
Uh, excuse me. Well, not really. Surveillance setups use logging VCR's
that write a frame every few seconds.
Spy shops are, in my humble opinion, the largest retail joke in the
universe. The equipment is usually crappy, the prices are ASTRONOMICAL,
and from what I can see, they exist pretty much to pander to male power
fantasies without serving much real purpose in the world.
(Then again, that probably describes Monster Truck Shows as well, but at
least they're senselessly loud and violent!)
Anyway, the design parameters of standard VHS tape pretty much make
"endless loup" applications impossible. It works (kinda) with audio
cassettes because of the relatively small size of the tape. Endless Loop
Audio Cassettes can be slip feed from the hub without jamming every five
minutes. It just doesn't work with wider videotape.
I suppose you could hack up a tape and use the old "open bin" trick of
spooling the tape into a loose pile in a box on the floor and figuring out
some way to kludge together a tension system to keep the tape aligned with
the heads, but really, why bother. There are far, far better ways, the
easiest being the tried and true - dub it over and over and put the tape
in a auto rewind machine.
Ya know, sometimes, processes become an "industry standard" simply because
it's too big a bother to do it any other way.
--
Bill Davis
NewVideo
MR TAPEGUY
Bill wrote:
>Anyway, the design parameters of standard VHS tape pretty much make
>"endless loup" applications impossible. It works (kinda) with audio
>cassettes because of the relatively small size of the tape. Endless Loop
>Audio Cassettes can be slip feed from the hub without jamming every >five
>minutes. It just doesn't work with wider videotape.
Actually, it isn't a matter of width. Making an endless loop with any kind of
open reel tape or movie film is easily done. It's the helical scan system and
the tape path and "wrapping" of the video tape around the head, combined with
the back tension in the cassette that makes it impossible.
I can't vouch for monster truck shows, however.
=====
Craig Berlin aka MR TAPEGUY, Professional Tape - Image * Sound * Data
(512) 443-3911 (http://www.Pro-Tape.com) APOGEE * BASF * DENON * FUJI * JVC *
HHB * IOMEGA * LOWELL* MAXELL * QUANTEGY * SONY * TASCAM * TDK * ZONAL
Burt Johnson
> Continuous loop VHS tapes _do not exist_
Well, I admit I'm looking for the same. Found this group tonight while
pursuing that search. One of my sales reps wanted me to produce one for
the stores that carry our videos, and I said "ain't no such thing." He
swore there was, so I asked my duplicator (Vaughn Communications in
Denver) and they said "ain't no such thing."
Then today I read an article in MacWeek saying that a BJ's wholesale on
the east coast makes one every month, selling space on it to vendors. The
point of the article was the Avid system they use to make the tape, but it
was repeatedly stated that they created a "looped video" that was "played
continuously, unattended, all day long."
So, I'm back to looking for this mythical beast! :-)
--
Burt Johnson (bu...@mindstorm-inc.com)
MindStorm Productions, Inc.
www.mindstorm-inc.com
Burt Johnson
> There are far, far better ways, the
> easiest being the tried and true - dub it over and over and put the tape
> in a auto rewind machine.
The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
turn it off...
Rick Johnston
( sigh ) Please help put this rumor to rest!
I've been to BJ's. They use standard VHS tapes in standard decks with an
auto-rewind feature.
Looped in this case does not mean the tape is looped to play continuously.
It means the program is looped, or repeated, on a very long tape that needs
to rewind periodically. We use the NLE to generate them. They're called
"repeaters".
There is no such thing as a looped VHS videocassette. The design of the
mechanism and tape path do not allow it to happen with any chance of a
manufacturer making a profit on it. If you want to avoid down time during
rewinds, transfer the program to Laser Disc. It costs more at the outset,
but lasts forever.
Regards,
Rick Johnston
Ent/Gates Productions
http://www.entgates.com
Burt Johnson wrote in message ...
Burt Johnson
In article <6j9c9u$8qm$2...@buffnet2.buffnet.net>, "Rick Johnston"
<xspamxj...@buffnet.net> wrote:
> ( sigh ) Please help put this rumor to rest!
>
> I've been to BJ's. They use standard VHS tapes in standard decks with an
> auto-rewind feature.
That's what I figured, but thought I better check it out...
Basically, I sell a line of videos to art & craft stores. I proposed
creating a demo tape that has various segments from each tape, looping it
for a 2 hour tape. The problem is that it is not likely the store
personnel will rewind the tape regularly, and machines with
auto-rewind/replay cost more so will probably not be bought by the craft
stores...
palo...@erols.com
In article <burt-12059...@jumaga.lanminds.com>,
bu...@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:
> The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
> probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
> have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
> leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
> turn it off...
For this low quality video market, a T-160 recorded at SLP will look ugly, but
give can 8 hours of play per rewind. It just might work for your application.
Of course, takes all day to copy a tape.
Here is a real issue with endless loops of video tape: If a VHS tape is good
for 100 plays, a 5 minute endless loop would be about worn out after a 9 hour
day. Ok, so use fantastic tape goood for 1000 plays, and you get one week of
retail use per tape.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Jim Hossack
go cdrom
Sharif Shahwan
Burt Johnson wrote:
>The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
>probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
>have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
>leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
>turn it off...
Well, you'll have to tell them that it's tough; they will have to get a VCR
that has this facility; not that it means getting an expensive VCR; In the
UK, all Hitachi VCR's have had this facility for at least the last 6 or 7
years. Right down to the basic £199 ($260) models. It's quite possible
that their current VCR's already have this facility to constantly record or
playback.
SSake
I haven't followed all of this thread, but the other option (depending on the
length of the piece) is to just repeat it 50 gazillion times--if it's a long
piece and/or you can stand to lose the resolution, repeat it in EP mode 500
gazillion times...
Steve S.
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Continuous VHS Tape
>From: "Sharif Shahwan" <xt...@dial.pipex.com>
>Date: Wed, May 13, 1998 23:53 EDT
>Message-id: <6jdq9g$rhf$5...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>
>
>Burt Johnson wrote:
>
>>The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
>>probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
>>have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
>>leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
>>turn it off...
>
>
>Well, you'll have to tell them that it's tough; they will have to get a VCR
>that has this facility; not that it means getting an expensive VCR; In the
>UK, all Hitachi VCR's have had this facility for at least the last 6 or 7
>years. Right down to the basic Ł199 ($260) models. It's quite possible
>that their current VCR's already have this facility to constantly record or
>playback.
>
>
></PRE></HTML>
DGArgue
In article <6jdq9g$rhf$5...@plug.news.pipex.net>, "Sharif Shahwan"
<xt...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
>Burt Johnson wrote:
>
>>The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
>>probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
>>have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
>>leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
>>turn it off...
>
>
>Well, you'll have to tell them that it's tough; they will have to get a VCR
>that has this facility; not that it means getting an expensive VCR; In the
>UK, all Hitachi VCR's have had this facility for at least the last 6 or 7
>years. Right down to the basic Ł199 ($260) models. It's quite possible
>that their current VCR's already have this facility to constantly record or
>playback.
>
>
>
>
Why not simply dub it to 3/4" and buy an old Sony pro video presenter, e.g.
VP5030, VP5630, etc? They were built for this job, built to last, and have the
advantage that no one is going to pinch one for home use. They are also cheap,
reliable, and built like a tank. 3/4" tape is also far more robust than VHS and
the quality might surprise you. (After all, viewing will presumably be on a TV
sized monitor). Don't forget you need one with a RF converter to output to a
TV.
Derry Argue
Firth Productions
Scotland, U.K.
Video B216
>>>The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
>>>probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
>>>have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
>>>leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
>>>turn it off...
I think that you will find that many of the small combo units
have this feature. I purchased a 9" Funai combo unit from Damark
for $ 249.00 that has auto repeat feature. Also some of the
$149.00 player only units available at deptment stores have
auto repeat feature. Radio shack had one on their 1997
catalog (Moel 27) with auto repeat for $ 199.00
Rick Johnston
Prices for Laserdisc players have plummeted since the announcement of DVD.
If you transfer the program to LD (plastic CAV disc xfers run about US$350),
you can buy a used LD player for $100 and set the unit to repeat all day
every day with no worry about peeling the oxide off a VHS tape after
multiple passes. The obsolescence of the players in the consumer market will
preclude your shops from stealing them for home use.
Regards,
Rick Johnston
Ent/Gates Productions
http://www.entgates.com
palo...@erols.com wrote in message <6jc1sm$i6e$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <burt-12059...@jumaga.lanminds.com>,
> bu...@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:
>> The problem is that I sell my videos into craft stores. The stores will
>> probably buy they cheapest VCR/TV combo they can find at Costco, and then
>> have to manually rewind each time -- which they won't do very often,
>> leaving it showing snow most of the time until they get tired of it and
>> turn it off...
>
Burt Johnson
In article <6jc1sm$i6e$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, palo...@erols.com wrote:
> Here is a real issue with endless loops of video tape: If a VHS tape is good
> for 100 plays, a 5 minute endless loop would be about worn out after a 9 hour
> day. Ok, so use fantastic tape goood for 1000 plays, and you get one week of
> retail use per tape.
Wow! That sure makes sense, but is 100% something I had never thought of...
Any ideas for solutions? The market won't accept the cost of a DVD
player, nor LaserDisk. CD requires a computer, which is also too
expensive.
SSake
Well, if you combine a couple different approaches, that should cover it:
Use a long looping tape, and edit multiple versions on it. That cuts down on
the number of passes.
Then, make several dubs of this tape, so that when one wears out, you have
another dub to replace it.
Practically speaking, though, I don't ever recall having seen a
point-of-purchase video looking worn out. (I also still have never seen a
single person stop and watch one, but that's an old thread I won't bring up
again---oops!)
Steve S.
Burt Johnson
In article <199805181011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
ss...@aol.com (SSake) wrote:
> Use a long looping tape, and edit multiple versions on it. That cuts down on
> the number of passes.
> Then, make several dubs of this tape, so that when one wears out, you have
> another dub to replace it.
> Practically speaking, though, I don't ever recall having seen a
> point-of-purchase video looking worn out. (I also still have never seen a
> single person stop and watch one, but that's an old thread I won't bring up
> again---oops!)
The issue isn't for me to use one. Rather I sell a line of video tapes,
and I am in the process of working a deal with the manufacturer of the
polymer clay used in many of my videos for him to buy a few thousand of
these tapes and give one free to each of his stores for in-store
attraction.
He wins because people get drawn to his clay display and hopefully buy
clay. I win because the stores learn about our videos and hopefully add
them to their inventory. Oh yes, I also get paid for the videos up front,
so I win there too.:-)
The gotcha is that if he discovers that the tapes wear out in a short
time, he ain't gonna be a happy camper...
As far as stopping to view the tape, we don't really want them too.
Rather, it can be easily seen that a TV attracts people to come over and
watch for a few seconds. I've put them in some stores around here and
just sat back and observed. Yep, people come over, look at the video a few
seconds, then look at whatever display it is near. The video will not in
itself sell them, but it got them to the display...
Also, we use a running video at our trade show booths. It _definitely_
brings people to the booth to look at it and ask questions. Some watch a
few seconds, and some a few minutes. None for the whole video. But it
brings them into the booth where we can tell them about the videos and
give them a pitch on why they should carry them.
My mother (72 years young <g>) got so excited about our videos, she
started a small business going around to craft shows here in the SF Bay
Area selling them. We gave here a TV/VCR combo for her table, and it draws
a _lot_ of people. She often sells 50 to 75 tapes in a show, which gives
her plenty of money to pay for her hobbies. <g>. The point being the TV
_does_ draw people to the booth.
Burt Johnson
In article <6jp4er$r7i$2...@buffnet2.buffnet.net>, "Rick Johnston"
<xspamxj...@buffnet.net> wrote:
> Prices for Laserdisc players have plummeted since the announcement of DVD.
> If you transfer the program to LD (plastic CAV disc xfers run about US$350),
> you can buy a used LD player for $100 and set the unit to repeat all day
> every day with no worry about peeling the oxide off a VHS tape after
> multiple passes. The obsolescence of the players in the consumer market will
> preclude your shops from stealing them for home use.
The issue here is that we (well, actually my customer) will supply the
tape/LD/DVD/whatever free to the dealer, but the dealer must buy the
player on his own nickel. There are about 12,000 retailers involved, and
it would be pretty hard to come up with that many used LaserDisk players
(and too expensive for my customer to buy that many for his stores)
I agree those are great ideas if I was making it for my own store, or if I
had a very small number of stores to supply. The quantity involved, and
the fact that my customer (a polymer clay manufacturer) is already balking
at the $8/copy I quoted (though I think he will finally go for it) means
that adding $100+ just isn't in the picture.
Chuck Reti
--snip--
>Practically speaking, though, I don't ever recall having seen a
>point-of-purchase video looking worn out. (I also still have never seen a
>single person stop and watch one, but that's an old thread I won't bring up
>again---oops!)
>Steve S.
My observation is that practically all in-store video
playbacks I see are usually breaking up or mistracking,
the players have hopelessly clogged heads or the monitor is
set up as though our parents had tweaked them "to look better."
This also seems to be most true in department stores, with
ongoing playbacks of cosmetics and fashion content. Distorted
audio on tiny 12" combo tv/vcr doesn't add to the sales pitch either!
If you;'ve ever worked on such videos, it doesn't do your heart good
to see what becomes of your efforts.
--
Chuck Reti Detroit, MI | Video Editorial and
aa...@detroit.freenet.org |Post-production Services
http://members.aol.com/chuckwreti |
Section Manager Detroit SMPTE | "Will edit for food"
Bill Davis
SNIP
> As far as stopping to view the tape, we don't really want them too.
> Rather, it can be easily seen that a TV attracts people to come over and
> watch for a few seconds. I've put them in some stores around here and
> --
> Burt Johnson (bu...@mindstorm-inc.com)
> MindStorm Productions, Inc.
> www.mindstorm-inc.com
Aha! A re-defining of the problem! Then the solution is, perhaps, simple.
If the actual watching of the tape is secondary, then "image quality"
should also become somewhat secondary. So why not take your program, have
it mastered (over and over) on to a two-hour tape running in "EP" extended
play mode (sometimes called SLP - super long play). The resulting 6-8 hour
running time tape then can be duplicated!
Even the cheapest VCP's I've seen handle EP/SLP playback and since the
program plays back only once or at most twice per day, the "1000 play"
quality tape stock has a life cycle of about 3 years!
Produced carefully, with an eye toward video elements like bleeding reds,
high-contrast transitions and the like, and perhaps, a heavy emphasis on
flashing titles or other eye-attention grabbers, it probably wouldn't even
look too bad on EP!
Just a thought.
--
Bill Davis
NewVideo
Burt Johnson
In article <newvideo-180...@d37-ts07.amug.org>,
newv...@amug.org (Bill Davis) wrote:
> If the actual watching of the tape is secondary, then "image quality"
> should also become somewhat secondary. So why not take your program, have
> it mastered (over and over) on to a two-hour tape running in "EP" extended
> play mode (sometimes called SLP - super long play). The resulting 6-8 hour
> running time tape then can be duplicated!
Interesting idea. I'll mock one up tonight and see how it looks on the
machine we cart around to trade shows - a cheapish TV/VCR combo from
Costco.
zelm...@gmail.com
> Does anybody know where I can buy some of those continuous running VHS
> tapes, the kind that runs for about 10 minutes or so and just keeps
> that I can leave it running unattended. I've heard that they exist, but
> have no idea where to look to find one.
>
I have some from my closed business. Never used. Also the clam shell cases. How many do you need?
Prof. Justin
---
Jacob Ford
I'd love to buy if you still have! Can you email vhs [at] old.museum ?