Recommdations for PC Components for A/V Editing
Meekoe
I'm getting ready to build my a PC for A/V editing. I've done it many times
before but it's been awhile so I wanted to run it by a few groups to see if
I could get any suggestions. Brand name is important to me because it
generally means quality. My ideal budget is $2000 but I will spend up to
$2500. Here are the following components. Any advice or suggestions from
the experienced will be much appreciated.
P4 3.0 Ghz
Motherboard - 865 Chipset "Springdale" (Intel, Soyo, FIC)
2 Gig DDR memory (NEC)
36 Gig, 15K RPM, U320 SCSI, Seagate Cheetah Drive (Main Drive)
(2) 250 Gig, 7200 RPM, SATA, drives (Seagate)
Video Card? - RECOMMENDATIONS HERE PLEASE?? only enough for 128MB budget
Audio - MOTU Interface
Case - I ALSO NEED A RECOMMEDATION FOR A WELL DESIGNED, QUIET CASE
CDRW (Plextor, NEC, TDK)
DVD +/- RW (Pioneer)
Firewire and USB 2.0 - Built into motherboard
Did I leave any major components out?
MC OToole
in a Raid 0 configuration if your motherboard supports it.
Logan Shaw
> The Antec Sonata case is quiet. You may want to go with the SATA drives
> in a Raid 0 configuration if your motherboard supports it.
I too recommend the Antec Sonata case. I have one at home, and it's
a good quality case. Very easy to work on. You'll like the hard drive
arrangement; they mount "sideways" -- they are still horizontal,
but the connectors face the removeable side panel instead of the
front of the computer. And the hard drive bays come with rubber
grommet hardware to absorb vibrations and noise. Power supply is 380W.
Case fan is pretty large (120mm?) and runs slowly but delivers good air
flow. Power supply has a variable speed fan (I think) and runs quiet.
I have a low noise heatsink, and the loudest thing in my case is the
hard drive.
It's not the lowest noise case available, but if you're on a budget,
it's a good choice, and it's built well (like most Antec cases).
- Logan
Tech God
> Hi,
>
> I'm getting ready to build my a PC for A/V editing.
> Here are the following components.
>
>
> P4 3.0 Ghz
> Motherboard - 865 Chipset "Springdale" (Intel, Soyo, FIC)
> 2 Gig DDR memory (NEC)
> 36 Gig, 15K RPM, U320 SCSI, Seagate Cheetah Drive (Main Drive)
> (2) 250 Gig, 7200 RPM, SATA, drives (Seagate)
> Video Card? - RECOMMENDATIONS HERE PLEASE?? only enough for 128MB budget
> Audio - MOTU Interface
> Case - I ALSO NEED A RECOMMEDATION FOR A WELL DESIGNED, QUIET CASE
> CDRW (Plextor, NEC, TDK)
> DVD +/- RW (Pioneer)
> Firewire and USB 2.0 - Built into motherboard
>
> Did I leave any major components out?
1) Get the Western Digital 740GD 10,000 RPM SATA hard drive
instead of the SCSI. It's still SUPER fast, twice the size
and half the price of the SCSI, and many modern motherboards
have the speedy SATA interface built-in, so you'll save on
not having to buy the SCSI interface card.
2) Why not spend the extra $20 on a motherboard with the 875 chipset?
3) Are you also going to be playing video games on this computer?
Video cards with more than 32Mb of memory are usually optimized
for the high frame rates of gaming. Video editing in NTSC-land
(USA) is almost always at 30fps, easy for a good 32Mb card like
the good yet inexpensive Matrox G550 dual monitor card:
http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/g550_dualdvi/home.cfm
However, if you're dying to go "High End", than try this one:
Monte P McGuire
Tech God <rodeo...@netzero.com> wrote:
>1) Get the Western Digital 740GD 10,000 RPM SATA hard drive
> instead of the SCSI. It's still SUPER fast, twice the size
> and half the price of the SCSI, and many modern motherboards
> have the speedy SATA interface built-in, so you'll save on
> not having to buy the SCSI interface card.
I've been loosely following this thread and have to ask why use SATA?
Is there really any difference between this and ATA/133, especially
considering the drives you guys are talking about?
Or is it that you only get SATA on motherboards anymore along with a
really slow ATA bus for CDROMs and the like that you wouldn't want to
put a real drive on.
I honestly don't know, so I'm asking...
Thanks,
Monte McGuire
mcg...@TheWorld.com
Pooh Bear
> Hi,
>
> I'm getting ready to build my a PC for A/V editing. I've done it many times
> before but it's been awhile so I wanted to run it by a few groups to see if
> I could get any suggestions. Brand name is important to me because it
> generally means quality.
Whose brand name ? There's loads of well-known ones. Almost every HD
manufacturer is a 'brand name'.
> My ideal budget is $2000 but I will spend up to
> $2500. Here are the following components. Any advice or suggestions from
> the experienced will be much appreciated.
>
> P4 3.0 Ghz
Why Intel ? AMD is cheaper and the latest Athlons fly.
> Motherboard - 865 Chipset "Springdale" (Intel, Soyo, FIC)
Don't know that chipset - who actually makes it - Intel I'm guessing by the
number. Intel's aren't always the best you know. Some AMD targeted chipsets are
very fast indeed. I believe VIA make one of the current best. Check for fast
memory support.
> 2 Gig DDR memory (NEC)
Why NEC ? I use Micron Technology ( www.crucial.com ).
Only DDR with a P4 3G ? I thought Intel were supporting more exotic memory than
that now. Do you actually *need* 2 Gig ? Use a performance monitor to check
actual memory usage. Unused memory is a waste of money that could be spent on
something useful.
There's a 3rd party utility called Hyperdrive IIRC that avoids un-necesary swap
files. Check it out. Far better to run Windows entirely from actual memory.
Otherwise - get a small fast HD as a separate swap file drive. That can be *so*
useful.
Oh - partition your system disk to avoid Windows and program files in the same
partition. Helps avoid fragmentation.
> 36 Gig, 15K RPM, U320 SCSI, Seagate Cheetah Drive (Main Drive)
I've gone off Seagate since I had 2 Barracuda drives die on me in succession.
Best system drives I've ever used for reliability were Quantum ( now part of
Maxtor ). Not a single failure ever. Very fast and quiet.
> (2) 250 Gig, 7200 RPM, SATA, drives (Seagate)
For media you need the fast 10k drives ideally. Preferably striped using a RAID
configuration for sheer speed.
> Video Card? - RECOMMENDATIONS HERE PLEASE?? only enough for 128MB budget
You don't need an expensive gamer's 3D card. Just a well designed one. Avoid
noisy high speed chipset fans on the card.
Frankly - if you're editing - I suggest a 2 monitor system. 2 cards, 2 monitors.
19" TFTs are very nicely priced now. Use the DVI interface. For a good buy check
AOC's LM 919.
> Audio - MOTU Interface
> Case - I ALSO NEED A RECOMMEDATION FOR A WELL DESIGNED, QUIET CASE
The best case is a *big* one. It's about as simple as that. Lots of room for
ventilation.
Get one with a 400W or so psu - not because it needs it but because the psu will
run at less loading and be more reliable. If it has a temp sensitive fan, it'll
run quieter too.
Avoid high r.p.m. fans for cooling. They're noisy. Put a big heatsink on the
cpu and blow air quietly at it. Zalman flower cooler for example.
> CDRW (Plextor, NEC, TDK)
Get a cheapy and replace it if it breaks ! I've found Lite-On to be very good
actually.
> DVD +/- RW (Pioneer)
Don't pay over the odds for a brand name here. Unless you're a brand name fan.
DVD writers are becoming more 'commodity' now like CR writers.
>
> Firewire and USB 2.0 - Built into motherboard
>
> Did I leave any major components out?
Case cooling fan(s). I'm planning on using a 24V fan and running it at 12V -
nice and quiet and lasts forever. I *hate* having to replace fans that are worn
out.
You'll need a nice ergonomic mouse. I've never looked back since Microsoft
brought out their Mk 2 'Intellimouse'. So comfortable. You don't want RSI.
Get a keyboard with the coloured keycaps for hot editing keys that are available
now ( just like an Avid ).
Graham
Pooh Bear
> In article <e1d64fcb.0402...@posting.google.com>,
> Tech God <rodeo...@netzero.com> wrote:
> >1) Get the Western Digital 740GD 10,000 RPM SATA hard drive
> > instead of the SCSI. It's still SUPER fast, twice the size
> > and half the price of the SCSI, and many modern motherboards
> > have the speedy SATA interface built-in, so you'll save on
> > not having to buy the SCSI interface card.
>
> I've been loosely following this thread and have to ask why use SATA?
> Is there really any difference between this and ATA/133, especially
> considering the drives you guys are talking about?
SATA is marginally faster ( 150 ).
The real attraction is simple interface and small cable ( doesn't impede
cooling ). SATA drives typically have larger on-drive cache too.
> Or is it that you only get SATA on motherboards anymore along with a
> really slow ATA bus for CDROMs and the like that you wouldn't want to
> put a real drive on.
They'll have ATA133 too normally. No-one intentionally makes slow
controllers anymore.
Graham
Pooh Bear
> Hi,
>
> I'm getting ready to build my a PC for A/V editing. I've done it many times
> before but it's been awhile so I wanted to run it by a few groups to see if
> I could get any suggestions. Brand name is important to me because it
> generally means quality. My ideal budget is $2000 but I will spend up to
> $2500. Here are the following components. Any advice or suggestions from
> the experienced will be much appreciated.
>
> 36 Gig, 15K RPM, U320 SCSI, Seagate Cheetah Drive (Main Drive)
> (2) 250 Gig, 7200 RPM, SATA, drives (Seagate)
Don't forget - get a case with loads of drive bays - a *big* one and ensure that
these drives aren't 'butting up' against each other. Keep a drive space between
each one.
Keeping the drives cool is *very* important in video editing.
Graham
Pooh Bear
< snip >
> 1) Get the Western Digital 740GD 10,000 RPM SATA hard drive
> instead of the SCSI. It's still SUPER fast, twice the size
> and half the price of the SCSI, and many modern motherboards
> have the speedy SATA interface built-in, so you'll save on
> not having to buy the SCSI interface card.
>
> 2) Why not spend the extra $20 on a motherboard with the 875 chipset?
>
> 3) Are you also going to be playing video games on this computer?
> Video cards with more than 32Mb of memory are usually optimized
> for the high frame rates of gaming. Video editing in NTSC-land
> (USA) is almost always at 30fps, easy for a good 32Mb card like
> the good yet inexpensive Matrox G550 dual monitor card:
Seconded !
And install WD Data Lifeguard to monitor your drives' condition from time to
time. It's free and works with non-WD drives too.
http://support.wdc.com/download/
Graham
p.s. he forgot to mention the 10/100 ethernet interface for his DSL/cable
router ( with firewall of course ).
erik phoxie
> >1) Get the Western Digital 740GD 10,000 RPM SATA hard drive
> > instead of the SCSI. It's still SUPER fast, twice the size
> Is there really any difference between this and ATA/133, especially
> considering the drives you guys are talking about?
no!
> Or is it that you only get SATA on motherboards anymore along with a
> really slow ATA bus for CDROMs and the like that you wouldn't want to
> put a real drive on.
yes!
I haven't seen anything like a 10.000 rpm parallel ata drive yet anyway.
> I honestly don't know, so I'm asking...
:)
e.p.
Tech God
> I've been loosely following this thread and have to ask why use SATA?
> Is there really any difference between this and ATA/133, especially
> considering the drives you guys are talking about?
>
> Or is it that you only get SATA on motherboards anymore along with a
> really slow ATA bus for CDROMs and the like that you wouldn't want to
> put a real drive on.
Yes....one *can* edit video smoothly & perfectly on a system equipped
with an ATA/100 or 133 hard drive(s). However, several of my projects in
Adobe Premiere have reached nearly 30 gig of raw clips. The projects
open MUCH faster using the 10,000 RPM Western Digital 740GD "Raptor"
SATA drive.
Also, when converting the final edited video from an .AVI file to MPEG2
to create a DVD, the installation of the Western Digital "Raptor" seems
to have caused a significant reduction in encoding times.
A big performance gain at a much lower price than SCSI drives and their
expensive controller cards.
Arny Krueger
news:40220A64...@hotmail.com
> Don't forget - get a case with loads of drive bays - a *big* one and
> ensure that these drives aren't 'butting up' against each other. Keep
> a drive space between each one.
Excellent advice. For even more benefit, put the drives directly downstream
or upstream of a fan.
> Keeping the drives cool is *very* important in video editing.
It's also very significant vis-a-vis average lifespan.
One of the things that drives do when they fail is simply slow down. They
don't stop working, they just slow down. Sometimes they slow down a little,
and some time they slow down LOTS. Maybe 1 failed drive in 10 that I
replace has slowed to a snail's pace but keeps on ticking. Maybe 2 in 10
could be characterized as being something like a 7200 rpm drive that's now
running at about 3600 . IOW fast enough to pass for a working drive, but not
the drive it was on the best day of its life.
A good drive will slow down as it fills up, but if I reload it from scratch,
it bounces back to original performance levels.
none
Message id: <e1d64fcb.0402...@posting.google.com>:
>2) Why not spend the extra $20 on a motherboard with the 875 chipset?
http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/linecard.htm?iid=PCG+devspot&
I don't see a difference between the 865PE and the 875P. If anything,
the 865PE is more flexible as it supports 400MHz FSB. Throwing away 20
bucks for no reason whatsoever seems a bit silly to me.
Arny Krueger
news:o_mUb.25004$QJ3.9685@fed1read04
> But what software are you going to use?
This is really significant. Some software is RAM-based, other software
benefits greatly from having two or three drives.
While singing the praises of relatively expensive 10,000 rpm drives is fun,
I know for sure that software like Audition/CoolEdit runs a lot better on
two commodity 7,200 rpm drives than one 10,000 rpm drive. The cost for the
drives is about the same.
none
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in Message id:
<40220864...@hotmail.com>:
>Only DDR with a P4 3G ? I thought Intel were supporting more exotic memory than
>that now.
DDR400 *dual* channel for 6.4GBytes maximum throughput.
Keith Clark
(Almost) everyone seems to be missing one basic point.
It wouldn't matter if the *interface* were capable of *gigabytes* per
second.
The limiting factor for video work where files are many orders of magnitude
bigger than the drive's buffer is "how fast can the data get physically
written to the platter?".
You use any exotic interface but the physical reality is that you're still
limited to a maximum of *maybe* 50 megabytes per second actual throughput,
on the very best drive under the very best conditions.
Sheesh, the way everyone falls for marketing hype, it's no wonder the
industry gets away with crap like SATA.
Keith Clark
>
> Yes....one *can* edit video smoothly & perfectly on a system equipped
> with an ATA/100 or 133 hard drive(s). However, several of my projects in
> Adobe Premiere have reached nearly 30 gig of raw clips. The projects
> open MUCH faster using the 10,000 RPM Western Digital 740GD "Raptor"
> SATA drive.
>
Oh good grief, get a clue.
It's the 10K RPM that makes the difference, *not* the SATA interface.
Don't you people *ever* bother to read the technical articles at
www.storagereview.com?
Fishface
> > My ideal budget is $2000 but I will spend up to $2500. Here are the
> > following components. Any advice or suggestions from the experienced
> > will be much appreciated.
>
> prices if you qualify for educational discount.) They come with iMovie,
> GarageBand, and iDVD.
What is that, a 1.2 GHz machine? But, of course, they're the faster, Apple
Ghz. It doesn't appear that you can reuse the monitor on a stick when it's
time to upgrade. Ouch! Gonna have to add some storage to that slow
80GB drive, too. Probably want to replace that crappy mouse and
speakers. Gosh, for $2200, you think they'd throw in +R / +RW capability.
But they do have some redeeming qualities. I do like the jumbled mess of
wires coming out of the back when it is all set-up, and I noticed Macs are
not so quiet any more.
Mike Cressey
RPM. I'm sticking to the 7200 until Seagate comes out with a quiet
10K.
Mike
Custom built, quiet DAWs - http://www.MusicIsLove.com
Scott Dorsey
>> It's the 10K RPM that makes the difference, *not* the SATA interface.
>Beware - I've heard that the 10,000 RPM disks are noisier than 7,200
>RPM. I'm sticking to the 7200 until Seagate comes out with a quiet
>10K.
They are noisier.
I'll say also that the older generation 5400 rpm drives are even quieter
and seem to last a lot longer. The higher speed drives seem to have more
premature bearing failures. Some of the newer 10krpm drives are using air
bearings and it'll be interesting to see what the reliability numbers on
those come out like.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
U. U.
h...@comcast.com:
>> Keeping the drives cool is *very* important in video editing.
>
> It's also very significant vis-a-vis average lifespan.
>
>
Is it worthwhile getting something like the
VANTEC Aluminum Hard Disk Drive Cooler, $8 from Newegg?
Ule
Monte P McGuire
Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
>I'll say also that the older generation 5400 rpm drives are even quieter
>and seem to last a lot longer. The higher speed drives seem to have more
>premature bearing failures. Some of the newer 10krpm drives are using air
>bearings and it'll be interesting to see what the reliability numbers on
>those come out like.
Seagate has some sort of fluid dynamic bearing drives and I think I've
been using some for a while now. They seem fine, but only time will tell.
As for noise, some of the more modern 7200 RPM drives have incredibly
low acoustics, around 20dBA or so, which is a good bit lower than
anything I've seen in the past.
I'm using modern 7200 RPM Seagate SCSI drives for audio now and they
seem to work quite well. I still have a few IBM SCSI drives running,
and hopefully they'll stay that way. If you're just doing audio, I
think 7200 RPM is plenty fast, but that's just me.
My real need for speed is when I'm doing backups: a drive that can
barely push 10MB/s is fine for 32 track 24/44.1 audio, but it's a real
PITA when I have to backup or archive sessions. Modern drives can do
something closer to 50MB/s and it really helps reduce the drudgery
when backing up.
Regards,
Monte McGuire
mcg...@TheWorld.com
Keith Clark
Scott Dorsey wrote:
I installed a Western Digital 160 GB 7200 RPM ATA-100 drive (8 MB buffer - $88
after W.D. rebate) this weekend and was pleasantly surprised to find that it's
completely silent I can't even hear it when defragging or other stressful
activities.
--keith
Pooh Bear
Intel were mucking about with other technologies to simple DDR a while back.
I guess they got the msg that it wasn't clever marketing and went mainstream again.
Graham
Fishface
> I installed a Western Digital 160 GB 7200 RPM ATA-100 drive
> (8 MB buffer - $88 after W.D. rebate) this weekend and was
> pleasantly surprised to find that it's completely silent I can't even
> hear it when defragging or other stressful activities.
I have the same model and it's a real constant whiner, constantly.
You don't suppose WD would give me a new one, do you? It
kind of turned me off WD and I've been buying Samsung with
fluid bearings ever since.
Keith Clark
Couldn't hurt to try...
Good luck!
Keith Clark
Fishface wrote:
I see Frys has them on sale again this weekend ($118 before the rebate)...
Fishface
> I see Fry's has them on sale again this weekend ($118 before the
rebate)...
Here in Oregon, they are advertising a Maxtor 160 GB at that price.
It's very tempting, but I think I'll get a new SATA drive.
Maybe this noisy one can be made into a nice external backup device.
The racket just bugs the crap out of me. I have two Maxtor 10K SCSI
drives that together are much quieter, except while seeking...
James Messick
> Meekoe wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm getting ready to build my a PC for A/V editing. I've done it many times
>>before but it's been awhile so I wanted to run it by a few groups to see if
>>I could get any suggestions. Brand name is important to me because it
>>generally means quality. My ideal budget is $2000 but I will spend up to
>>$2500. Here are the following components. Any advice or suggestions from
>>the experienced will be much appreciated.
Buy the deal of the week Athlon XP 2200 or better or Pentium 4 2000 or
better for $400. Better yet, buy two and a KVM switch so you can use one
to surf the net and read newsgroups while the first one is capturing
video. Take the rest of the budget and upgrade RAM on the first machine
to 1 Gb or better, add a fast DVD burner, and add all the disk storage
you can find. Save a little money for software and a monitor, if you
don't already have one.
Glenn Booth
In message <jfYUb.2767$LA4....@twister.southeast.rr.com>, James
Messick <jmes...@triad.rr.com> writes
>Save a little money for software and a monitor, if you don't already
>have one.
I dunno. I put software and the monitor(s) near the top of the list in a
video editing machine. A decent NTSC or PAL output is useful on the
graphics card too (assuming no hardware editing card, which would
usually supply it). It's pretty depressing cutting some video on a VGA
display only to find that the field order is wrong when you display it
on a TV, and you need to re-render the whole job.
VGA displays won't show field order errors, as they aren't interlaced.
They also won't tell you if your colours are legal or valid in PAL/NTSC,
and they won't tell you which bits of your video are out of the 'safe
zones' and in the overscan area.
Dual output cards with half-decent TV output can be had reasonably
cheap. Some have already been mentioned earlier in the thread.
The software is whole different ballgame. Personally, I choose the
software first and tweak the box specs to suit.
--
Regards,
Glenn Booth
Fishface
I just think you don't get a lot for your dollar, and there is not much
upgrade potential. The FX5200, that's what, a $60 video card?
But I guess DX9 support is not something you need on a Mac. I
do absolutely hate the mouse, but now that they have added the
little grips on both sides, it *is* at least possible to lift and move it
when you run out of room while dragging. I find the keyboard dinky.
The speakers-- they just don't sound very good, but at least you get
some. 256MB of DDR333? Inadequate. The 20" widescreen
looks damned good, especially in the store next to the 17". I even
checked to see if they were running the 17" at some goofy resolution--
nope! It's a tidy little package, but for the price, I can build two very
nice, upgradeable PCs.
Christmas Ape
> Do video cards affect the rendering speed? (no, I think)
> Do they affect the playback speed? (apparently, according to this thread,
> but how?)
> I thought most cards would play back at 30 fps, since they will play
> DVDs.
>
>
>
Spider
ulysses
>My date is always behind
A gentleman would stop and wait for her to catch up.
ulysses
neil.he...@sbcglobal.netnospam
If you're talking about a PC, a video card that is located in the AGP slot
can certainly affect any number of things because often the AGP slot & the
1st PCI slot share the same IRQ number by default. In some mobo's you can
change this in the BIOS, but in others you can't. So even though IRQ
sharing isn't as big of an issue as it used to be, it can still affect
performance to some degree, depending on a computer's particular
configuration.
Dunno if that's what you're referring to or not.
--
Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com