VHS quality vs. VCD quality ?
Tony Nguyen
digital pictures don't get deteriorated with time. However, I tried out
with some samples and noticed that VCD quality is much poorer than that of
VHS tape. Anyone experienced with this? Is this because I didn't make it
right or it is the fact of life that VCD picture is not comparable with VHS
? Thank you
Tony Nguyen
ro...@min.net
Generally, VHS is half screen resolution, while VCD is only quarter
screen.
Rob G.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jukka Aho
news:FsGJE...@news.boeing.com...
> I tried out with some samples and noticed that VCD quality
> is much poorer than that of VHS tape. Anyone experienced
> with this? Is this because I didn't make it right or it is
> the fact of life that VCD picture is not comparable with VHS?
If you use poor source material, you'll get poor results.
In order to avoid blockiness, your source material should
be as "pure" and "clean" as possible. A shaky/grainy/color-
bleeding old VHS tape is already a bad source to begin with.
VCD has less resolution than VHS (both in the temporal and
spatial sense of the term), but you should still get fairly
acceptable results if your source material is clean enough.
Besides the technical quality of the source material, also
the encoder and the capture/deinterlacing method affect the
end result very much. Try Avery Lee's VirtualDub, Donald
Graft's Smart Deinterlacer and Panasonic's MPEG-1 Encoder.
Also take a look at Kyong Song's and Rich Aubin's web
sites.
Some useful information (and also links to the
above-mentioned) can be found at my SVCD page
<http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/svcd/overview/>.
-- znark
jnlc...@my-deja.com
player you buy is the key. My Pioneer DV525 can handle 704x480 at
2500kbs non-std VCD's, and the quality is great. You only get 33 mins
per non-std VCD but since many of my home movies are on VHS-C 30 min
tapes, that isnt a big problem. You should save the MPG's to another
data CDR for archiving in case you want to create a std VCD later. I
captured 33 mins last night and am using VirtualDub to deinterlace and
resize (4 AVI's on Day 1 and 5 Day 2), Panasonic to encode (4 Night 1
and 5 Night 2), Nero to burn (Night 3) and capture the next 33 mins
(Night 3) and then start all over again.
In article <FsGJE...@news.boeing.com>,
"Tony Nguyen" <linh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking at archiving my home videos. VCD seems reasonable because
> digital pictures don't get deteriorated with time. However, I tried
out
> with some samples and noticed that VCD quality is much poorer than
that of
> VHS tape. Anyone experienced with this? Is this because I didn't make
it
> right or it is the fact of life that VCD picture is not comparable
with VHS
> ? Thank you
> Tony Nguyen
>
>
Vladimir Lukic
file, about 2 hours with 700 kb per sec.
"Tony Nguyen" <linh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FsGJE...@news.boeing.com...
Thomas C. Perconti
news:8cd52i$clk$3...@as102.tel.hr...
The benefit of using VCD is the versatility of the media. VCDs can be
played on both PCs and many/most home DVD players. This makes it a nice
usable replacement for the original videotapes. Obviously the original
tapes should STILL be stored in a safe place. Anything encoded in MPEG4 or
Divx will only be able to be played back on a PC.
John Navas
"Thomas C. Perconti" <srac...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The benefit of using VCD is the versatility of the media. VCDs can be
>played on both PCs and many/most home DVD players. ...
Actually, there are many DVD players that cannot play VCD's. (I have one
-- a Mitsubishi.)
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>
[Ads belong only in rec.video.marketplace, not rec.video discussion groups, as per
<http://www.landfield.com/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.video.marketplace>]
Marius
>
> The benefit of using VCD is the versatility of the media. VCDs can be
> played on both PCs and many/most home DVD players.
Actualy there are just a few home DVD that play burned VCD: Pioneer DV-525,
Hitachi DV-P250 and I can't remember what make was the other one.
Thomas C. Perconti
news:YfSG4.134268$Hq3.3...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
Add the RCA 5220P to the list (as long as the serial number starts with 922
or higher). The brand of CDRW media isn't as important as making sure that
the MPEG being used is extremely compliant to the spec. The VCDs I created
from a Panasonic encoded MPEG would only work in my DVD player if I used
high quality HP CDRW media ($5 USD a piece). ALL VCDs I created from Dazzle
DVC encoded MPEGs work in my DVD player regardless of the quality of the
CDRW media. (Even cheapo Imation CDRW at $2 a piece work fine.)
Jukka Aho
news:38ee2...@news1.prserv.net...
> The brand of CDRW media isn't as important as making sure that
> the MPEG being used is extremely compliant to the spec. The
> VCDs I created from a Panasonic encoded MPEG would only work
> in my DVD player if I used high quality HP CDRW media ($5 USD
> a piece). ALL VCDs I created from Dazzle DVC encoded MPEGs
> work in my DVD player regardless of the quality of the CDRW
> media. (Even cheapo Imation CDRW at $2 a piece work fine.)
Pardon me, but that sounds a bit like black magic & voodoo
combined... I think there has to be some other factor involved
than what you suggest. (Haven't heard anyone else accusing
Panasonic MPEG-1 Encoder of creating out-of-the-spec White
Book MPEGs, either.)
-- znark
moadib64
Thomas C. Perconti
Okay, here are my test results. What conclusion would YOU draw?
CLIP1 - captured at 15fps 320x240 uncompressed AVI using Asymetrix Digital
Video Recorder, then converted to VideoCD format using the Panasonic Encoder.
CLIP2 - captured at VideoCD-compliant settings using Dazzle DVC.
ALL VideoCD discs were created on CDRW media using Adaptec's VideoCD Creator
3.5c. FAILED = failed to play on the RCA, PASSED=Played correctly.
Matrix of results:
CLIP1 :
Imation = FAILED
Verbatim = FAILED
Samsung = FAILED
Hewlett Packard = PASSED
CLIP2 :
Imation = PASSED
Verbatim = PASSED
Samsung = PASSED
Hewlett Packard = PASSED
Tom Perconti (aka SpeedRacer: Lancelot of the Information Superhighway)
My slow-growing DVD collection: http://www.dvdtracker.com/~tcperconti
The Unofficial Home Page of Cadaco's All-Star Baseball Game:
http://members.tripod.com/~Perconti/cadaco/
Jukka Aho
news:8dckto$1v8k$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> Okay, here are my test results. What conclusion would YOU draw?
At this point, I have more questions than conclusions. :)
> CLIP1 - captured at 15fps 320x240 uncompressed AVI using
> Asymetrix Digital Video Recorder, then converted to VideoCD
> format using the Panasonic Encoder.
15 fps? Why don't use use a full 30 fps source (as you probably
do with Dazzle)?
How did you preprocess the clip before offering it to Panasonic?
(Did you just give it as a 15 fps AVI or did you upconvert it
first to [pseudo] 30 fps AVI?)
Did you use Panasonic's NTSC VCD profile? Did you alter any
settings by hand?
> ALL VideoCD discs were created on CDRW media using Adaptec's
> VideoCD Creator 3.5c. FAILED = failed to play on the RCA,
> PASSED=Played correctly.
What recording speed did you use? Have you redone any of your
failed media tests using 1x recording speed (sometimes using
a too high recording speed could be the problem)?
-- znark
joel...@yahoo.com
Thomas
It sounds like Dazzle DVC is a good device. what utility did you use
for burning encoded MPEG file to the VCD?
Thanks.
--Joel
In article <38ee2...@news1.prserv.net>,
"Thomas C. Perconti" <srac...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Marius" <flom...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:YfSG4.134268$Hq3.3...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > > The benefit of using VCD is the versatility of the media. VCDs
can be
> > > played on both PCs and many/most home DVD players.
> >
> > Actualy there are just a few home DVD that play burned VCD: Pioneer
> DV-525,
> > Hitachi DV-P250 and I can't remember what make was the other one.
>
> Add the RCA 5220P to the list (as long as the serial number starts
with 922
> or higher). The brand of CDRW media isn't as important as making
sure that
> the MPEG being used is extremely compliant to the spec. The VCDs I
created
> from a Panasonic encoded MPEG would only work in my DVD player if I
used
> high quality HP CDRW media ($5 USD a piece). ALL VCDs I created from
Dazzle
> DVC encoded MPEGs work in my DVD player regardless of the quality of
the
> CDRW media. (Even cheapo Imation CDRW at $2 a piece work fine.)
>
>
Thomas C. Perconti
>"Thomas C. Perconti" <tcper...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:8dckto$1v8k$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
>> Okay, here are my test results. What conclusion would YOU draw?
>
>At this point, I have more questions than conclusions. :)
I was afraid of that. ;-)
>> CLIP1 - captured at 15fps 320x240 uncompressed AVI using
>> Asymetrix Digital Video Recorder, then converted to VideoCD
>> format using the Panasonic Encoder.
>
>15 fps? Why don't use use a full 30 fps source (as you probably
>do with Dazzle)?
My other video capture device is the shark card in an IBM ThinkPad 770Z and is
not capable of reliable recording at 30fps.
>How did you preprocess the clip before offering it to Panasonic?
>(Did you just give it as a 15 fps AVI or did you upconvert it
>first to [pseudo] 30 fps AVI?)
No preprocessing was performed on the file. The 15fps AVI was passed
untouched to Panasonic.
>Did you use Panasonic's NTSC VCD profile? Did you alter any
>settings by hand?
Yes I used the NTSC VCD profile. No I did not alter any settings.
>> ALL VideoCD discs were created on CDRW media using Adaptec's
>> VideoCD Creator 3.5c. FAILED = failed to play on the RCA,
>> PASSED=Played correctly.
>
>What recording speed did you use? Have you redone any of your
>failed media tests using 1x recording speed (sometimes using
>a too high recording speed could be the problem)?
I used my default 4x recording speed. I just tried 1x and I experienced the
same results. While it is true that recording speed can sometimes cause
problems, I cannot see how it would come into play in this scenario.
It still looks to me like Panasonic may have some difficulty in encoding AVI
files that are significantly different from the resulting VCD-spec. ie.
Panasonic (based on other reports) does a fine job with AVI files that are
recorded at 30 fps, but my not do as good a job if the AVI file is at 15 fps.
Thomas C. Perconti
>Thomas
> It sounds like Dazzle DVC is a good device. what utility did you use
>for burning encoded MPEG file to the VCD?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Joel
I use Adaptec's EZ VideoCD Creator 3.5c. It is included with EZ CD Creator
Deluxe (not to be confused with the freebie EZ CD Creator Basic that is
included with most CD-Recorder/Rewritable drives)
Just a minor disclaimer: Although I am extremely pleased with my Dazzle DVC,
how well it suits a specific person's purpose is highly subjective. For
anyone considering getting one, buy it from a reputable establishment with a
good return policy, in the event that it does not meet YOUR expectations.
Jukka Aho
> It still looks to me like Panasonic may have some difficulty in
> encoding AVI files that are significantly different from the
> resulting VCD-spec. ie. Panasonic (based on other reports)
> does a fine job with AVI files that are recorded at 30 fps,
> but my not do as good a job if the AVI file is at 15 fps.
This is likely to be the reason for the failed discs. But
I'm still puzzled about the CD-R media issue...
>> Why don't use use a full 30 fps source (as you probably
>> do with Dazzle)?
> My other video capture device is the shark card in an IBM ThinkPad
> 770Z and is not capable of reliable recording at 30fps.
I don't know how "shark card" works, but if it captures without
any compressiona and the problem is hard disk / IDE controller
throughput, you might want to try an M-JPEG codec (such as this
one: <http://www.jpg.com/imagetech_video.htm>) with it.
-- znark