My rant against Pinnacle systems -- PINNACLE ARE YOU READING THIS?
Kim
enjoying acceptable and reliable performance in Windows NT. Those green
bars are gone and Premiere is considerably more stable, so far.
Yes, I am happy about this. But at the same time I am pissed.. Very
pissed.. Seething with rage gnashing my teeth pissed. Why? Because I
remembered how much everything sucked before when I bought this card,
installed it, and the trouble I had making it work. (This was back in
April).
After doing my share of research on this newsgroup and on the web, I
thought I had what would be a great system pieced together -- a PII/450,
128 megs RAM, NT4.0, DC30+, FastTrak IDE RAID + 3 Maxtor 17gb DiamondMax
drives..
You can surely imagine my supreme frustration when I put it all together
and it worked like crap. I couldn't even get video capturing at 1mb/s
without green bars appearing quite frequently..
Pinnacle tech support was positively useless.. In fact, they blamed my
FastTrak IDE RAID entirely for the problems -- DESPITE THE FACT that they
specifically mentioned and recommended this card on their website!!!!!!
They told me repeatedly 'sir, you should buy a SCSI raid. We do not
recommend anything other than SCSI RAIDs. IDE drives will not work
because of thermal recalibration' (bullpucky, as most of you know). I
called them on several occasions with the frame droppage and green line
problems, was treated rather rudely by their techs, and the last time I
had spoken to them the guy had told me he would talk to his engineers and
call me back. Of course he never did.
Eventually, I got things working reasonably well. But, I had to switch
down to 98, and waste many hours of my time hacking the stupid thing to
get it to work reliably. Finally I reached a point where I could get
reasonably reliable performance at 4mb/s or less.
Grumbling and embittered by the whole experience, I moved on in life and
started to forget about it.
Then I came across the announcement for the new 1.41 drivers. I went to
the website and lo and behold, the "new features" listed bug fixes for
EXACTLY THE BUGS I WAS EXPERIENCING. The bugs which the stupid fucking
techs told me were 'my fault' and that I should have ignored their
explicit advice on their webpage and spent thousands more on SCSI (and at
the same time throw away the $650 I had already spent on my IDE RAID).
This is what I call PISS POOR CUSTOMER SUPPORT. This is just bullshit.
If you have problems with your software or hardware, for God's sake don't
try to blame it on the customer until you can get your shit together and
get the bugs fixed. If someone would have just said, "Sir, there are
some bugs in our stuff. But here's how you can work around em..." .. I
would have been tickled and happy. But NO. They outright lied to me, and
worst, BLAMED it on me, on THREE SEPERATE OCCASIONS.
If I were a sleazbag, I would sue the bastards. I don't play like that,
though.
I will, however, abandon this company as a vendor as soon as I possibly
can and tell everyone I come across who asks for my advice to stay the
hell away from this company.
Never before in my career as a programmer or systems admin have I had
such horrid support from a vendor. NEVER!
GRRRRRRRR
Thankfully everything seems to be working now. Pinnacle should still be
horsewhipped for their behavior, imho.
Tune in tomorrow and I'll tell you all what I REALLY think.. :-)
-Kim
Don
Don't you know that this is par for the course for all tech support
nowadays? OK, they may have been the worst that you have
experienced, but virtually all the others are only marginally
less screwed up. I rarely even bother with tech support anymore.
Sometimes it is comical, as when a clueless newbie support person
riffles through the notes going, uh try this, OK try this, wait... (papers
shuffling) did you connect the cable?
Don't forget that these people are partly assessed on how may problem
reports they close. If they can blame something on the customer,
they get a real fast close, with no effort or followup required.
Your best bet for support are the company sponsored web sites
and usenet newsgroups.
Don
Kim <kim_eg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1248cf30f...@news.alt.net...
Eric
Reeltime: no mathematically lossless compression (well till 1.50 that I've
tried.. I don't know if they support it now though, it must still has a
extensive
list of bugs).
DC30+: poor NT support
DC10+: Advertised as a Directshow board, but won't capture more than 17
minutes
of frames, either at 1mb/sec or 6mb/sec... totally lame
Yes there's always workarounds, but people are not PAYING for workarounds.
Kim a écrit :
Kim
> Settle down, Kim!
>
> Don't you know that this is par for the course for all tech support
> nowadays? OK, they may have been the worst that you have
> experienced, but virtually all the others are only marginally
> less screwed up. I rarely even bother with tech support anymore.
> Sometimes it is comical, as when a clueless newbie support person
> riffles through the notes going, uh try this, OK try this, wait... (papers
> shuffling) did you connect the cable?
I'm sorry, but my sense of humor with this gross incompetency is
absolutely zero. When I'm calling these people up, I'm usually in freak-
out mode because I'm trying to accomplish a fundamental task and am
getting no-where.
> Don't forget that these people are partly assessed on how may problem
> reports they close. If they can blame something on the customer,
> they get a real fast close, with no effort or followup required.
>
> Your best bet for support are the company sponsored web sites
> and usenet newsgroups.
Yes, I'm aware of this!! that's for sure!
>
> Don
>
> Kim <kim_eg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1248cf30f...@news.alt.net...
Scott James
with no dropped frames at all with the DC10+.
Scott
Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:37DFBA32...@videotron.ca...
Eric
a liar?
I was about to buy this card because I had a miroDC10 before and it was working
kinda okay. But that 2 GB limit is really annoying, PLEASE don't talk about
workarounds, I don't feel like capturing 8 clips and THEN re-assembling them,
and so on.. it should be one (huge) file with no post process like it's
advertised,
else you simply don't advertise it. I don't think that all of pinnacle products
are crap, in fact they got some good stuff, it's just that I hate them for
promising
stuff and delivering like 6 months later or not even delivering... and there are
numerous example about that and even horror stories.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/support/faq/ViewFAQ.asp?id=821&lge_id=1
am unable to capture up to the 2 GB limit, even
though I have sufficient space.
Or
The capture stops by itself at 17 minutes in NTSC (21 minutes for PAL)
Solution
Studio DC10plus currently contains a flaw that causes the capture to
end after reaching 32,000 frames. This is most evident when capturing
using the "Good" quality setting. It can also occur at the custom capture
setting if the data rate has been lowered to the point where the 32,000
frames are captured before the two-gig capture limit is reached. At
these settings, capture will generally stop at 15 min when set to NTSC
(21 min for PAL). To verify whether or not this is the problem you are
encountering, do a search for your capture file through Start/Find/Files
or Folders, or use Windows Explorer. Once you have located the file,
right mouse click on it, select Properties, then select the Details tab.
Check the number of Frames next to Video format. If the frame count is
around 32,000, try using one of the workarounds listed below.
We apologize for the inconvenience. We do not have a permanent
solution to this problem at this time. It is currently under investigation by
our developers and will most likely be fixed in a future release of the
software. A workaround in the meantime is to capture using Vidcap. To
run Vidcap, go to Start, Programs, Studio DC10plus, Tools, and then
select Vidcap. Click on the "File" pull-down menu and select
"Preferences". Set the maximum number of frames to 324,000 and click
OK. Now you can begin your captures in Vidcap to bypass the problem.
Scott James :
ro...@min.net
and it has worked great. I've also worked with the DC10, and it is the
best capture card under $200(US). Any questions I had were either
answered on the Pinnacle Support site or in the manual. Just by reading
these resouces I learned about all the known bugs, and ways to get
around them. All of this information was available BEFORE I made a
purchase. Thats why I went with the Pinnacle card, and I've not run
into any bugs that were not documented on their site. And since the
update posted just a couple of weeks ago, my DC30 has worked even
better.
Not once have I seen Pinnacle claim that you can capture more than 2
gigs at a time. All their documention recomends capturing less. There
are third party programs that will let you do bypass the limit by
pasting 2 gig files together as you capture. VirtualDub and AVI_IO come
to mind. Pinnacle says you can bypass the limit on RENDERING projects
over 2 gigs, which is true. Are the Pinnacle cards perfect? No...no
capture card is, but my DC30 has worked very well for me, and Pinnacle
has treated me well.
Rob G.
P.S. I know your going to say before you even say it. I don't work for
Pinnacle, nor do I have any ties with them other than being a satisfied
customer.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
AL
I personally can't wait till the Matrox RT 2000 is released :-)
Regards,
AL
Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:37DFE6C5...@videotron.ca...
PeteD
Sprung you didn't bag the Fizz sorry I mean Buz. <chuckle><grin>
Wow these guys are not very happy.
Sometimes if it just doesn't work the best plan is not to persevere but to
get your money back and try another product.
Pete D
<ro...@min.net> wrote in message news:7rpuds$m0b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Markus Zingg
range, but there IS at least ONE perfect card. The Cannopus DV-Rex. It's
another pricerange, but I just had to say it here...
Markus
Victor Khong
wrote:
>Thankfully everything seems to be working now. Pinnacle should still be
>horsewhipped for their behavior, imho.
I don't mean to belittle your pain because I share your views. I
*almost* bought a Pinnacle product but based on research through print
and Net resources, user groups, usenet.. I decided against it.
Pinnacle has large, impressive ads. in the major video, multimedia
magazines and it looks really slick but the products don't work. I
almost placed an order for the Truevision's Bravado DV2000 but just as
I was about the phone the order in, it was announced that Pinnacle
bought Truevision and was dis-continuing the Bravado in Canada
(according to the now defunct Computer City, Richmond, British
Columbia).
After more research, I came upon what many others have discovered..
the Canopus DVRaptor card. Yes, it just plain works better and faster
than anything else in the price range and better than some others not
in the price range. If I had the money, I would buy the Canopus
DVRex-M1.
Yeah, Pinnacle sucks.
Victor (movie...@sprint.ca)
-----------------------------------------------------------
President - Victor Film Group
Founder - Digital Video Group
Producer, Director, Cinematographer, Screenwriter
http://www.victorfilmgroup.com
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Location/5272/index.htm
James Jalbert
--
James Jalbert
Dalhousie NB
Canada E8C 2E1
Visit us at,
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/jjalbert
Eric
> gigs at a time. All their documention recomends capturing less. There
> are third party programs that will let you do bypass the limit by
> pasting 2 gig files together as you capture. VirtualDub and AVI_IO come
> to mind. Pinnacle says you can bypass the limit on RENDERING projects
> capture card is, but my DC30 has worked very well for me, and Pinnacle
>
> Rob G.
>
Come on...
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/studio/dc10plus/
Save time and disk space.
Studio DC10 plus uses Microsoft’s DirectShow, which lets you preview your
edits immediately, without rendering. When you make changes to your movie,
you can view the changes instantly in the Preview Window. Then, when you’re
ready to make your final movie, there’s less time spent waiting for your
movie to render-and less wasted drive space—because Studio DC10 plus only
renders those scenes you’ve altered. Studio DC10 plus also uses hardware
accelerated rendering for additional time savings. And since Studio DC10
plus overcomes the 2 GB Video for Windows file size limitation, you can
make longer movies than you can with other desktop video editing solutions.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Where did you learn to read? :)
> P.S. I know your going to say before you even say it. I don't work for
> Pinnacle, nor do I have any ties with them other than being a satisfied
> customer.
>
Nah.. I won't say it... if you'd work there you'd know a bit more
about their marketting :)
ro...@min.net
> Come on...
>
> http://www.pinnaclesys.com/studio/dc10plus/
>
> Save time and disk space.
> Studio DC10 plus uses Microsoft’s DirectShow, which lets you preview
your
> edits immediately, without rendering. When you make changes to your
movie,
> you can view the changes instantly in the Preview Window. Then, when
you’re
> ready to make your final movie, there’s less time spent waiting for
your
> movie to render-and less wasted drive space—because Studio DC10 plus
only
> renders those scenes you’ve altered. Studio DC10 plus also uses
hardware
> accelerated rendering for additional time savings. And since Studio
DC10
> plus overcomes the 2 GB Video for Windows file size limitation, you
can
> make longer movies than you can with other desktop video editing
solutions.
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Where did you learn to read? :)
Hello...It says MAKE LONGER MOVIES, not CAPTURE past the limit. Why
would you think that in the middle of a paragraph about RENDERING they
would tell you that you can capture more than the limit? Capturing isn't
even mentioned anywhere in the quote you selected.(It seems you are the
one not reading carefully.)
You can make movies bigger than the 2 gig limit. Both the DC10 and the
DC30 will render and play back projects much larger than than 2 gigs.
Like I said before, they never claimed that you can capture more than 2
gigs at a time.
Rob G.
dvpro...@my-deja.com
i have found that there are a couple of good cards from pinnacle. we
have dv300 in our studio which work very good now that pinnacle has the
free update for premier 5. and the new dc1000 has worked very well for
us but i wish they would release the new disk for dv control support.
the dv works very well but it would be nice to have the same dv tools
we have on the dv300.
also we have a dc30plus which we use for internet video and it has
always worked very good. pinnacle support has been very helpfull on
their phone lines as well as on the news boards.
Monique
In article <7rqd8p$e40$1...@news.imp.ch>,
"Markus Zingg" <m.z...@mbs.bg> wrote:
> I don't doubth that you are happy with the DC30 it's a good board in
its
> range, but there IS at least ONE perfect card. The Cannopus DV-Rex.
It's
> another pricerange, but I just had to say it here...
>
> Markus
>
> > over 2 gigs, which is true. Are the Pinnacle cards perfect?
No...no
> > capture card is, but my DC30 has worked very well for me, and
Pinnacle
>
>
Eric
> would you think that in the middle of a paragraph about RENDERING they
> would tell you that you can capture more than the limit? Capturing isn't
> even mentioned anywhere in the quote you selected.(It seems you are the
> one not reading carefully.)
>
Longuer movie thant the competition, 17 minutes is NOT longer dans the
competition, I can make 3 hours movies with BUZ, DC30, Marvel, well
heck, just about anything with low compression, DC10+ will stop at 17 mins
whatver the compression rate is, thats NOT LONGER. Next when you imply
directshow support, well the FIRST thing you think of is "break that god
damn
2GB limit so you can capture longer clips at high quality". or maybe I
missed
something (yes I am aware of all the other features of directshow, but you
understand perfectly what I mean here.). So whatever you do, you won't
be able to play with let's say, 25 minutes segments (episode of something)
without chopping you capture in 2 parts (yes I know there are software
for doing this but like I said, I don't pay for workarounds).
anyways there's a flaw in this product and like it or not, directshow
support
"implies" that you can do both capture and playback with a 13TerraBytes
limit.
Period. Else it's 'Directshow playback support' or something.
> You can make movies bigger than the 2 gig limit. Both the DC10 and the
> DC30 will render and play back projects much larger than than 2 gigs.
> Like I said before, they never claimed that you can capture more than 2
> gigs at a time.
>
No but come on. that's REALLY playing with words... at least in DC30 they
say they use a special software to make it seamless, but it's STILL VFW.
And there's no mention of directshow support so you assume it's segments
of 2gb files to keep compatibility with other programs, not proprietary
formats.
Anyways my point is they advertise stuff that isn't ready when you buy
it, or it's flawed to some point, or you always have to check the tech
support
section before buying anything because you can't rely on the specs,
you always have to read between the lines, and that's pissing me off,
When I go buy a new SPORT car, I assume the breaks are working, the steering
is turning, and the light are turning on when I turn them on, well in this
example
it's like saying "hey it's a nice car" you test drive it and you like it,
you buy it.
you didn't test all the functionallity of the car and especially driving it
to more than
130km/h because the dealer probably wouldn't have liked it, now you want to
push it a bit
and WHAT? it won't go to more than 140-150km/h; after that the engine
screams.
Why would you be frustrated in this case? well first, when you buy a sports
car
you ASSUME that it goes faster than 150km/h simply because it's SPORT,
(please don't tell me "yeah but it's illegual to drive faster than 120
anyways :) )second,
yes you could have tested everything at the dealer's, and stood there for 1
week...
and, yes you could have read reviews before buying it, or ask questions,
but you know how car dealers are, and reading about it, well many people
just don't take that time (their loss you'll say).
Oh at the end the dealer could always say "hey it's not a sports car,
it's a car with a sports LOOK"... that of course, after buying it :), well
here's Pinnacle, and you seem to feel comfortable with that concept.
DC10 is not the only example I gave, I gave one with DC30 NT support
if I remember, and Reeltime (which went from a total piece of crap from 1.01
to simple crap at 1.50 drivers (after which I didn't touch it anymore).
They
advertised lossless and still, 6 months after, they never delivered, Highest
is NOT lossless.. Anyways... enuff with that thread :)
ro...@min.net
mins. using the DC10. You seem to be confusing rendering with capturing.
I made my project by doing several captures and creating an edited
project. All of Pinnacle's documentation tells you there is a two gig
limit when capturing. You ASSUMED that DirectShow would let you capture
past the limit. They never said it. Pinnacle's only claim is that you
can RENDER projects bigger than 2 gigs. Which is true. (Hence my 60 min,
project)
Also, DirectShow DOES have a file size limit. Programs that let you
capture past that limit, (ala VirtualDub & AVI_IO) do so by stringing
several 2 gig files together with instructions to play them back as one,
but they DO NOT create one huge file. When the DC10 or DC30 render, (I
said RENDER, not CAPTURE.) they do so using a similar method. The
software makes instructions to playback multiple captures as one,
rendering only the transition and titles. Thats all Pinnacle ever said
that they would do. Again, there's no mention (or even a hint) of being
able tocapture more than 2 gigs at one time.
And, the Pinnacle cards do use DirectShow. It comes on the installation
CDs and they won't work without it. Try removing DirectShow, and see
what happens.
Next, there has never been a claim of lossless compression. That's just
another one of your assuptions. MJPEG in NEVER lossless, no matter how
many MB/S you use. Pinnacle said that there cards are capable of SVHS
quality, and that is true.
Finally, I was wondering, what software you are using with with Buz to
capture over 2 gigs? I know for a fact that the included version of
VideoWaveSE+ and the original full version of that program have a ONE
gig file size playback limit.
Rob G.
========================================================================
========================================================================
Longuer movie thant the competition, 17 minutes is NOT longer dans
the competition, I can make 3 hours movies with BUZ, DC30, Marvel, well
heck, just about anything with low compression, DC10+ will stop at 17
mins whatver the compression rate is, thats NOT LONGER. Next when you
imply directshow support, well the FIRST thing you think of is "break
that god damn 2GB limit so you can capture longer clips at high
quality". or maybe I missed something (yes I am aware of all the other
features of directshow, but you understand perfectly what I mean here.).
So whatever you do, you won't be able to play with let's say, 25 minutes
segments (episode of something) without chopping you capture in 2 parts
(yes I know there are software for doing this but like I said, I don't
pay for workarounds). anyways there's a flaw in this product and like it
or not, directshow support "implies" that you can do both capture and
playback with a 13TerraBytes limit. Period. Else it's 'Directshow
playback support' or something. You can make movies bigger than the 2
gig limit. Both the DC10 and the DC30 will render and play back projects
much larger than than 2 gigs. Like I said before, they never claimed
that you can capture more than 2 gigs at a time. No but come on. that's
REALLY playing with words... at least in DC30 they say they use a
special software to make it seamless, but it's STILL VFW. And there's no
mention of directshow support so you assume it's segments of 2gb files
to keep compatibility with other programs, not proprietary
formats Anyways my point is they advertise stuff that isn't ready when
you buy it, or it's flawed to some point, or you always have to check
the tech support section before buying anything because you can't rely
on the specs, you always have to read between the lines, and that's
pissing me off, When I go buy a new SPORT car, I assume the breaks are
working, the steering is turning, and the light are turning on when I
turn them on, well in this example it's like saying "hey it's a nice
car" you test drive it and you like it, you buy it. you didn't test all
the functionallity of the car and especially driving it to more than
130km/h because the dealer probably wouldn't have liked it, now you
want to push it a bit and WHAT? it won't go to more than 140-150km/h;
after that the engine screams. Why would you be frustrated in this case?
well first, when you buy a sports car you ASSUME that it goes faster
than 150km/h simply because it's SPORT, (please don't tell me "yeah but
it's illegual to drive faster than 120 anyways :) )second, yes you could
have tested everything at the dealer's, and stood there for 1
week...and, yes you could have read reviews before buying it, or ask
questions but you know how car dealers are, and reading about it, well
many people just don't take that time (their loss you'll say). Oh at the
end the dealer could always say "hey it's not a sports car, it's a car
with a sports LOOK"... that of course, after buying it :), well here's
Pinnacle, and you seem to feel comfortable with that concept. DC10 is
not the only example I gave, I gave one with DC30 NT support if I
remember, and Reeltime (which went from a total piece of crap
from 1.01 to simple crap at 1.50 drivers (after which I didn't touch it
anymore). The advertised lossless and still, 6 months after, they never
delivered, Highest is NOT lossless.. Anyways... enuff with that thread
Eric
> mins. using the DC10. You seem to be confusing rendering with capturing.
> I made my project by doing several captures and creating an edited
> project. All of Pinnacle's documentation tells you there is a two gig
> limit when capturing. You ASSUMED that DirectShow would let you capture
> past the limit. They never said it. Pinnacle's only claim is that you
> can RENDER projects bigger than 2 gigs. Which is true. (Hence my 60 min,
> project)
>
I understood your point and what I meant was at the capture stage,
sorry if I was confusing. But my point was DIRECT SHOW SUPPORT
is either COMPLETE or else mention it in the specs sheets, period.
> Also, DirectShow DOES have a file size limit. Programs that let you
>
13 Terrabytes.
> Next, there has never been a claim of lossless compression. That's just
> another one of your assuptions. MJPEG in NEVER lossless, no matter how
> many MB/S you use. Pinnacle said that there cards are capable of SVHS
> quality, and that is true.
>
Dude, I was talking about the REELTIME board, and YES you can have
MATHEMATICALLY lossless "MJPEG" with the Zoran Chipset they are
using with it, you're mixing my claims of "they have a flaw in each
of their products" with the DC10+ only stuff :).
> Finally, I was wondering, what software you are using with with Buz to
> capture over 2 gigs? I know for a fact that the included version of
> VideoWaveSE+ and the original full version of that program have a ONE
> gig file size playback limit.
>
Videowave is the biggest piece of crap I've seen in ages (SE is
even crappier).
I use the "hacked" version of Vidcap. I Don't need 2+gb at playback
because I generally use the stuff for web or Cd-roms. I work with
premiere.
When I need to do big videos, I use a bit more high-end stuff :)
Anyways enough with that thread.
ro...@min.net
I've researched it, and nowhere can I find a reference to a Direct show
having a 13 terabyte capture limit. Here is some of what I found on the
Adobe Premiere and Ulead MediaStudio sites:
Adobe says:
File Size Limits
File size limits for specific movie file types (e.g., AVI movies)
are determined by the associated player application (e.g.,
playback service). QuickTime plays back MooV files (Mac
OS) and .mov files (Windows), while Video for Windows
(MCI drivers) or Direct Show (formerly ActiveMovie) play
back AVI files. The file size limitations of these playback
services are:
MCI/Video for Windows 1 GB
DirectShow 2 GB
QuickTime (Mac OS and Windows) 2 GB
Adobe reference page:
http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/100d2.htm
Ulead's quote:
Microsoft DirectShow - Playback projects smoothly from the timeline
without the need for specific hardware drivers. Overcome the 2GB file
size limit using the [MediaStudio Pro] timeline playback capability.
Save Disk space by eliminating the need to first render projects.
Ulead reference page:
http://support.ulead.com:80/kb/0002/KB106.htm
As you can see, the limit is 2 gigs.
Rob G.
Data
<ro...@min.net> a écrit dans le message : 7s14b1$lq4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Also, DirectShow DOES have a file size limit. Programs that let you
> capture past that limit, (ala VirtualDub & AVI_IO) do so by stringing
> several 2 gig files together with instructions to play them back as one,
> but they DO NOT create one huge file.
Not true for VirtualDub : I have a 4 Go AVI capture file for example
And for the 17mn in NTSC (21 minutes for PAL) limit for DC10+ , here the answer from Pinacle :
wally
>I feel your pain ;-)
>I personally can't wait till the Matrox RT 2000 is released :-)
>
>Regards,
>AL
Why?
My experience with Matrox tech support and my Marvel would echo his rant.
--wally.
Eric
said they would be able to capture more than 17 minutes, are
REALLY people who actually love being screwed in real life,
or looking for controversy, or simply pathetic.
C'mon for
god's sake... I am not saying the board is shit, or non-functionnal,
or this or that, I had a normal DC10 years ago from Miro, and it
worked great, especially for the price, the only thing I meant
is, it seems that every product from pinnacle has a more or less
serious flaw or misadvertising (now PLEASE don't jump AGAIN
telling me that they didn't advertise the capture part, it's really
a STUPID argument, it's like saying you buy a complete computer
system and you arrive at home and you don't have a power cord,
it's a little thing, but it's the difference between good service and
annoying.
Same goes for a hardware product, either 200$ or 5000$.
They advertise it as a buz killer, well it doesn't kill my buz if you ask
me (even if the buz has such a bad reputation, when you install
it correctly, put a good softcodec and got fast drives, it works
really well, but it NEEDs workaround, that's why I wouldn't
recommend it to my friends, DC10+ is a nice product, but
You'd have to use other "patched" or "special" software
that do multiple 2gb captures if you wanna make big
movies., (just like buz) I don't see why a card stopping at 17 mins would be
a buz killer... that's all. There's not much more features that the
DC10+ has that the buz doesn't, aside from stable drivers :)
(which you can bypass with a softcodec, and it's faster if you
got a fast system anyways)/
If you want a buz killer, get a RT2000 :)
Now THAT'S killing.. that's killing a whole lot more than a buz or DC10+
As for the 13TB limit, I think it's more like 12TB.. anyways who cares
1000 gigs more or less :) (please disregard that comment in 4 years
from now :) )
for references:
http://www.matrox.com/videoweb/support/database/faq/answers/dst_answer_10.html
(they are fully openDML compliant, so that means big (TBs) avis for a start)
and
http://www.concentric.net/~Psilon/video_2gb.html
Enuff... quake time :)
Data a écrit :
> Hello
>
> <ro...@min.net> a écrit dans le message : 7s14b1$lq4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Also, DirectShow DOES have a file size limit. Programs that let you
> > capture past that limit, (ala VirtualDub & AVI_IO) do so by stringing
> > several 2 gig files together with instructions to play them back as one,
> > but they DO NOT create one huge file.
>
ro...@min.net
It comes with much better software. Pinnacle Studio, Title Deko,
SmartSound, Video Spice Rack, etc.
It comes with smart rendering that bypasses the two gig limit. Buz comes
with VideoWave SE+ and has a ONE gig limit.
The DC10 comes with a real manual, not something that fits inside the
cover of a CD (Like the Buz manual)
It has pages and pages of support on pinnacle site.
As for DirectShow file size limits, Please give me a link to a reliable
reference that says it has a 12 or 13 terabyte video capture limit. Even
if the limit is a million billion tarabytes, Pinnacle has alway
maintained that THEIR products have a TWO GIG capture limit. Thoughout
their documention on their site, Pinnacle REPEATEDLY refers to the TWO
gig limit. You say it's like a computer that comes without a power
cord??? Well, If the ad for the computer said OVER AND OVER again,
"power cord not included", why would you expect it to come with a cord?
Not only is there no claim of being able to capture over 2 gigs, there
are statements throughout saying the opposite is true. But rather than
say "I should have read the literature", you made assuptions that were
not true and then blamed Pinnacle for your mistake.
Also, I was able to look up any flaws that Pinnacle product have BEFORE
I MADE A PURCHACE. It's all posted on their site, along with ways to
work around the problem, with Buz you have to rely on third party sites.
Pinnacle didn't need to create a "Buz killer" Iomega did that themselves
by not supporting the product.
Rob G.
In article <37E6BA91...@videotron.ca>,
Eric
> reference that says it has a 12 or 13 terabyte video capture limit.
Check the openDML specs from microsoft or matrox.
> Also, I was able to look up any flaws that Pinnacle product have BEFORE
> I MADE A PURCHACE. It's all posted on their site, along with ways to
> work around the problem, with Buz you have to rely on third party sites.
My point was you SHOULDN'T have to DO THIS... seems like shouldn't
is out of the question in this area eh? Flawed products are a common
thing... heck, a control panel should have options such as "which flaw
do you want activated" with a toggle switch between a flaw and another
one... sheesh.
> Pinnacle didn't need to create a "Buz killer" Iomega did that themselves
> by not supporting the product.
That, I agree completely. :)
But my point is both products needs workaround so while the DC10+
could have shined compared to the BUZ, well, it doesn't lit much,
not enough to make me tell the people that don't know how to
do workarounds and kinda computer illeterate to go buy it.
Reminds me of my Q-motion ISA card a few years ago ishh..
nah even the BUZ doesn't come close to that hehe.
ro...@min.net
you provided prove my case. Both pages state that DirectShow HAS A
CAPTURE LIMIT, and that the programs being promoted get by that limit.
Nowhere is it stated on either page that the limit doesn't exist. That's
the whole point of Digisuite and VirtualDub; they bypass the Directshow
2 gig capture barrier. Pinnacle never made that claim about the DC10 or
DC30.
Rob G.
ro...@min.net
chance to know what is going on before hand. Iomega didn't do that with
Buz. Also the DC10 does shine in comparison to Buz. When you look at
Buz's limitations, the DC10 looks like a beacon.
Rob G.
Eric
whining in the buz newsgroup. He's so happy with his DC10+ compared
to what he had with the buz, that he's sold out to them :) hey, at least one
satisfied customer :), but he's right, hard sh*t is easier to clean than
diahrea... but both stinks if you ask me :)
Avery Lee a écrit :
> ro...@min.net wrote:
>
> >One other thing I forgot to address in the previous post. The two links
> >you provided prove my case. Both pages state that DirectShow HAS A
> >CAPTURE LIMIT, and that the programs being promoted get by that limit.
> >Nowhere is it stated on either page that the limit doesn't exist. That's
> >the whole point of Digisuite and VirtualDub; they bypass the Directshow
> >2 gig capture barrier. Pinnacle never made that claim about the DC10 or
> >DC30.
>
> Unless I'm mistaken, one of the pages you are referring to is this page of
> mine:
>
> http://www.concentric.net/~Psilon/video_2gb.html
>
> Nowhere on the page did I say that DirectShow has a capture limit.
>
> -- Avery Lee (ule...@umail.ucsb.edu)
> http://www.concentric.net/~psilon/
>
> VirtualDub 1.0-pre9: AVI/MPEG/ASF-to-AVI processing utility with integrated capture.
> Free, and includes source.
Eric
(since you're SOOooOooo into what's written on the box and
nowhere mentionned on the box), I saw Mathematically lossless
on Reeltime's box, they got the zoran chipset that can do it on
the reeltime, but not the drivers, what else, anyways I keep
repeating myself, the fucking limitation is 12 TB for DirectShow
in NT, 4GB in 98, period, enuff for god's sake, I'm glad you're happy with
your
DC10+, yes you can compare it to the BUZ with the packaging
and say Buz is shit, but I'd never switch my Buz over a DC10+, but
I admit that overall the DC10+ is better than the buz, far
better with the packaging and drivers, I have no problems
with that.
Anyways what's so wrong with the buz, you use 1.3a3 drivers,
a mjpeg codec, and premiere, the shit works pretty stable
to me so I wouldn't switch anyways, but if I had to
chose between the 2, I'd go for a dc10+, happy?
Anybody can give you the specs before hand, ask the
technical support, the sales, or check the web site,
pinnacle is not the only company doing this, you look
so biased toward them that it makes me puke. To you,
they're right even when they're wrong. sheesh.
you looking for a job in their sales team or what? :)
ro...@min.net a écrit :
> All products have there limitations. At least Pinnacle gives you the
> chance to know what is going on before hand. Iomega didn't do that with
> Buz. Also the DC10 does shine in comparison to Buz. When you look at
> Buz's limitations, the DC10 looks like a beacon.
>
> Rob G.
>
ro...@min.net
Buz. I thought that all capture cards were the same. Then I tried a new
card and was amazed at how much better it was. I am pro Pinnacle because
they have impressed me with their products. (Although after working with
the Buz piece of crap, I'm probably easily impressed)
Someone else just on this NG just replaced their Buz with a
FastMaster2000, and he is having the same realization. Please reference
the "Buz Begone" Thead. Like you, (and me 6 months ago) he was a staunch
Buz defender, but then, he tried the competition. Thats all it took.
Rob G.
ro...@min.net
> >
> > Unless I'm mistaken, one of the pages you are referring to is this
page of
> > mine:
> >
> > http://www.concentric.net/~Psilon/video_2gb.html
> >
> > Nowhere on the page did I say that DirectShow has a capture limit.
Um, excuse me but this is the very first line on that page:
"There are actually three limits on the size of an AVI file. One of the
limits is at 2 gigabytes, another is either at 2 or 4 depending on how
you formatted partitions on your system, and the third is at 1
gigabyte."
You really need to read more carefully! How much clearer can it be?
Rob G.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mike Iampietro
Eric wrote:
> > Not once have I seen Pinnacle claim that you can capture more than 2
> > gigs at a time. All their documention recomends capturing less. There
> > are third party programs that will let you do bypass the limit by
> > pasting 2 gig files together as you capture. VirtualDub and AVI_IO come
> > to mind. Pinnacle says you can bypass the limit on RENDERING projects
> > over 2 gigs, which is true. Are the Pinnacle cards perfect? No...no
> > capture card is, but my DC30 has worked very well for me, and Pinnacle
> > has treated me well.
> >
> > Rob G.
> >
>
> Come on...
>
> http://www.pinnaclesys.com/studio/dc10plus/
>
> Save time and disk space.
> Studio DC10 plus uses Microsoft’s DirectShow, which lets you preview your
> edits immediately, without rendering. When you make changes to your movie,
> you can view the changes instantly in the Preview Window. Then, when you’re
> ready to make your final movie, there’s less time spent waiting for your
> movie to render-and less wasted drive space—because Studio DC10 plus only
> renders those scenes you’ve altered. Studio DC10 plus also uses hardware
> accelerated rendering for additional time savings. And since Studio DC10
> plus overcomes the 2 GB Video for Windows file size limitation, you can
> make longer movies than you can with other desktop video editing solutions.
>
>
The claim being made is that your can output multiple 2GB files (Make Longer Movies). No claims are made
regarding capture.
--
Mike Iampietro
Senior Product Manager
Pinnacle Systems Inc.
mi...@no.address
as a defense against spam I have deleted my reply to address
to reply please replace no.address with pinnaclesys.com
Mike Iampietro
Eric wrote:
>
> DC10+: Advertised as a Directshow board, but won't capture more than 17
> minutes
> of frames, either at 1mb/sec or 6mb/sec... totally lame
>
>
Fixed in version 1.05
--
Mike Iampietro
Senior Product Manager
Pinnacle Systems Inc.
mi...@no.address
as a defense against spam I have deleted my reply to address
to reply please replace no.address with pinnaclesys.com
Studio 400 Web Forum: http://webboard.pinnaclesys.com/~2/
Eric
want
to do a non-stop grab, 4 Gb?
Thanks.
JFW
Um, Rob, he's right. Nowhere does he say that _DirectShow_ has a
capture limit. He discusses other systemic limits, but in no way
suggests that there is a _DirectShow_ limit.
JFW
Nick Rheinwald
>Someone else just on this NG just replaced their Buz with a
>FastMaster2000, and he is having the same realization. Please reference
>the "Buz Begone" Thead. Like you, (and me 6 months ago) he was a staunch
>Buz defender, but then, he tried the competition. Thats all it took.
Yup. I bought a Buz a few months ago mainly because I was able to get one
for half of what a DC10 was going for at the time. I was impressed with its
capturing capabilities--even on not a superfast system, it captured at
720x480 without dropping frames. Then I tried to edit the video and I found
that I was *!@#%ed. I had two options...edit in Premiere with no preview
window and no transitions, or edit in VideoWave with no functionality. So I
sold the Buz, bought a DC10+, and I've been a happy camper ever since.
'Nuff said.
--Nick
pete...@baynet.co.uk
In article <MPG.1248cf30f...@news.alt.net>,
kim_eg...@yahoo.com (Kim) wrote:
> So I just installed the latest drivers (1.41) for my DC30+ and
finally am
> enjoying acceptable and reliable performance in Windows NT. Those
green
> bars are gone and Premiere is considerably more stable, so far.
>
> Yes, I am happy about this. But at the same time I am pissed.. Very
> pissed.. Seething with rage gnashing my teeth pissed. Why? Because
I
> remembered how much everything sucked before when I bought this card,
> installed it, and the trouble I had making it work. (This was back
in
> April).
>
> After doing my share of research on this newsgroup and on the web, I
> thought I had what would be a great system pieced together -- a
PII/450,
> 128 megs RAM, NT4.0, DC30+, FastTrak IDE RAID + 3 Maxtor 17gb
DiamondMax
> drives..
>
> You can surely imagine my supreme frustration when I put it all
together
> and it worked like crap. I couldn't even get video capturing at
1mb/s
> without green bars appearing quite frequently..
>
> Pinnacle tech support was positively useless.. In fact, they blamed
my
> FastTrak IDE RAID entirely for the problems -- DESPITE THE FACT that
they
> specifically mentioned and recommended this card on their
website!!!!!!
> They told me repeatedly 'sir, you should buy a SCSI raid. We do not
> recommend anything other than SCSI RAIDs. IDE drives will not work
> because of thermal recalibration' (bullpucky, as most of you know). I
> called them on several occasions with the frame droppage and green
line
> problems, was treated rather rudely by their techs, and the last time
I
> had spoken to them the guy had told me he would talk to his engineers
and
> call me back. Of course he never did.
>
> Eventually, I got things working reasonably well. But, I had to
switch
> down to 98, and waste many hours of my time hacking the stupid thing
to
> get it to work reliably. Finally I reached a point where I could get
> reasonably reliable performance at 4mb/s or less.
>
> Grumbling and embittered by the whole experience, I moved on in life
and
> started to forget about it.
>
> Then I came across the announcement for the new 1.41 drivers. I went
to
> the website and lo and behold, the "new features" listed bug fixes
for
> EXACTLY THE BUGS I WAS EXPERIENCING. The bugs which the stupid
fucking
> techs told me were 'my fault' and that I should have ignored their
> explicit advice on their webpage and spent thousands more on SCSI
(and at
> the same time throw away the $650 I had already spent on my IDE RAID).
>
> This is what I call PISS POOR CUSTOMER SUPPORT. This is just
bullshit.
> If you have problems with your software or hardware, for God's sake
don't
> try to blame it on the customer until you can get your shit together
and
> get the bugs fixed. If someone would have just said, "Sir, there are
> some bugs in our stuff. But here's how you can work around em..." ..
I
> would have been tickled and happy. But NO. They outright lied to me,
and
> worst, BLAMED it on me, on THREE SEPERATE OCCASIONS.
>
> If I were a sleazbag, I would sue the bastards. I don't play like
that,
> though.
>
> I will, however, abandon this company as a vendor as soon as I
possibly
> can and tell everyone I come across who asks for my advice to stay
the
> hell away from this company.
>
> Never before in my career as a programmer or systems admin have I had
> such horrid support from a vendor. NEVER!
>
> GRRRRRRRR
>
> Thankfully everything seems to be working now. Pinnacle should still
be
> horsewhipped for their behavior, imho.
>
>
> -Kim
>
--
Peter Llewellyn
Cardiff. Wales. UK
pete...@baynet.co.uk
ro...@min.net
> Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> So for the sake of everybody in this thread, what's the CAPTURE limit
> if I want to do a non-stop grab, 4 Gb?
>
> Thanks.
Why are you stuck on this non-issue? Buz won't capture outside the
limits without extra third party software. Out of the box, Buz has a ONE
GIG limit for both capturing AND rendering. At least the DC10 has a
rendering file size limit bypass feature. If you are so intent on
capturing more than two gigs at a time, buy a program that will let you
do so. The DC10 is still much better than Buz.
Rob G.
Kim
>
> > Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> > So for the sake of everybody in this thread, what's the CAPTURE limit
> > if I want to do a non-stop grab, 4 Gb?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
>
> Why are you stuck on this non-issue? Buz won't capture outside the
> limits without extra third party software. Out of the box, Buz has a ONE
> GIG limit for both capturing AND rendering. At least the DC10 has a
> rendering file size limit bypass feature. If you are so intent on
> capturing more than two gigs at a time, buy a program that will let you
> do so. The DC10 is still much better than Buz.
I wish Microsoft would buy Pinnacle and hopefully make their products
work with their OS. MS's DirectCapture technology kicks ass and it
pisses me off how poorly the vendors are supporting it.
Eric
ro...@min.net a écrit :
> > Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> > So for the sake of everybody in this thread, what's the CAPTURE limit
> > if I want to do a non-stop grab, 4 Gb?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Why are you stuck on this non-issue? Buz won't capture outside the
> limits without extra third party software. Out of the box, Buz has a ONE
> GIG limit for both capturing AND rendering. At least the DC10 has a
> rendering file size limit bypass feature. If you are so intent on
> capturing more than two gigs at a time, buy a program that will let you
> do so. The DC10 is still much better than Buz.
>
ro...@min.net
Eric <r...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> Too bad you're sold out to pinnacle, I was about to put you on sale
on Ebay.
Correction, I'm completely sold ON Pinnacle, and that's not bad at all.
They have treated me very well, and I'm very happy with their product.
I never felt that way when I was using Buz. I got so tired of hacking
out work arounds just to get the Buz working properly. Then I tried a
new capture card, and found just how effortless desktop editing can be.
Instead of figuring out how to solve hardware/software bugs, I'm
working on the most creative way to arrange my video and audio
sequences. I'm getting ready to enter one of my productions into a
contest.
While it is true, I like Pinnacle, and would recommend their products
to others, I am aware of the competion. A guy in another thread has
found the same joy with the FastMaster 2000 and that's good too. I love
that there is competition. It forces companies to improve their
products. Pinnacle is always releasing updates, and improving their
cards.
My point is, you have a case of sour grapes. You have Buz, so you found
some non-issue on which to attack Pinnacle, and got stuck there. You
made untrue assumptions and then ranted that Pinnacle was misleading
people when they were not. Then, you went to the help site and found a
bug, which by the way has already been eliminated, and decided to
mislead people youself. I set the story straight.
Rob G.
P.S. I don't get the ebay remark.
Eric
> some non-issue on which to attack Pinnacle, and got stuck there. You
> made untrue assumptions and then ranted that Pinnacle was misleading
> people when they were not. Then, you went to the help site and found a
> bug, which by the way has already been eliminated, and decided to
> mislead people youself. I set the story straight.
>
Okay, enough... I really feel like saying you're an asshole, so here:
You're an asshole.
I tried many products from Pinnacle, You always write crap to make this
thread endless, You're annoying, pissing me off, and not even READING
entirely what I am writing, or you have a hell of a bad memory, Did I
mention
OTHER examples that had NOTHING to do with the fact that I had a buz?
Did I mention I had a DC10 (not Plus) from Miro?
Seriously, what the *** does the fact
that having a BUZ has to do with the REELTIME I had for 6 months and
got rid of, because the drivers were total shit? (okay I learned: never buy
something that just came out and beleive what's on the box.), hell I REALLY
don't feel like reposting all this shit again, why don't you go piss off
people
on the BUZ newsgroup like you enjoy so much doing?
You keep poking around on a dead thread, it was over, I was glad
not reading anything on it for 48 hours, and you had to come back, and
"set the record straight" on ONE quote without reading the previous
lines or posts, shit man get a life, I don't know what's your problem
with pissing me off so much, I saw so much rant against you on the
buz list, that I can't beleive youre taking this way too personnal
not to be biased in any way. You are playing "I want the last
word and win" on a dead issue, just like a dog barking outside
the house until you open the door to let it in, you won't give up eh?
I'm glad they fixed the product, even if it's months after the release,
I can say that they did a better job than Iomega (who wouldn't?),
oh mind you:
De: Support <consumer...@pinnaclesys.com> 8/27/1999
3:05 PM
Objet: Re: TSWizard: miroVIDEO DC10 / DC10plus (KMM146484C0KM)
A: Eric <r...@videotron.ca>
Dear Eric,
The latest update(v1.05) will be released in a few weeks.
Unfortunately, the 2gig limit cannot be changed.
Thanks,
Pinnacle Systems Technical Support
http://www.pinnaclesys.com
--
That's what I had received and this is where I assumed that
the directshow support was flawed. anyways, there's a guy
from pinnacle who posted, said everything was fixed, (I asked
about the capture limit afterwards) so the thread should have
ended up there, period, capich?
I said that pinnacle DOES have good hardware, but your way
of seeing things is totally stupid, we won't go back (again I feel
like a 1000 times deja-vu) to that directshow crap, we won't
start all this all over again, I won't mention I had a DC30+ and
a reeltime and at home, a dc10, and even worked with older
stuff (alladin), All weren't bad.
I'm sincerely glad you're happy with
your product, you look like a guy who's sleeping with your
dc10+. I'm happy for you, get married with it, have kids, be happy
and get run over by a truck, PLEASE.
> Rob G.
>
> P.S. I don't get the ebay remark.
>
I'm not surprised. You can jump and correct me because english
is not my native language, but you cannot get the picture, oh well,
I'n not surprised at all....
Mike Iampietro
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric [mailto:r...@videotron.ca]
> Posted At: Friday, September 24, 1999 11:12 AM
> Posted To: desktop
> Conversation: My rant against Pinnacle systems -- PINNACLE ARE YOU
> READING THIS?
> Subject: Re: My rant against Pinnacle systems -- PINNACLE ARE YOU
> READING THIS?
>
>
> So for the sake of everybody in this thread, what's the
> CAPTURE limit if I
> want
> to do a non-stop grab, 4 Gb?
>
> Thanks.
With version 1.05 maximum capture size is 2GB (which is the FAT16 file
size limit - 4GB files are only possible with FAT32)
As mentioned previously, Studio DC10plus can play back multiple 2GB
files, so the file size limit does not effect the duration of a project
when it is be output to tape.
ro...@min.net
You know, throughout this whole debate, I've never once resorted to
personal insults or death wishes (Do you really hope that I get run over
by a truck???) You say I'm taking this conversation to personally, but
look who has stooped to nasty name calling. I feel absolutely no
hostility what so ever toward you. I have simply been correcting the
misinformation that you have been disseminating. Finally, you say I
won't give up, and maybe it's true, but you are just as guilty of that.
Rob G.
By the way, I hope that you live a long, happy, and fulfilled life, and
try not to let the little things get you so upset.
Zaara
I think you're missing the point. the 2Gig file limit has nothing to do with
Pinnacle. Complain to Microsoft. Under a FAT16 file system, NO FILE,
regardless of type or application, can exceed 2Gig.
Stan Boyett
Eric
Ntfs has terrabytes, but anyways that's a win9x product
as for the 4gb, the case is closed they've fixed the drivers
they said (in the e-mail I've received they said it wouldn't
be addressed in 1.05, seems like they've fixed it)
And the 2GB was not the biggest problem, it was the
17 minutes capture limit, I don't know why it went from
the 17 minutes hardware flaw to the 2gb file limit, but
anyways all of this is fixed now so enuff with that thread,
please? :)
Zaara a écrit :
Simon Etcheverria
problem in the operating system, its a flaw in AVI architecture, a round of
applause to all the hardware and software manufacturers who have worked hard
to bypass these problems, including Pinnacle
Zaara <za...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7t0usv$j43$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...