Unfinalize DVD+R
Gabby
as I thought that only DVD-RW could be finalized. I can record to the
DVD+RW on my PC, but the DVR will not record to it anymore. Is there a way
to unfinallize A DVD+R? I tried Nero, but no dice.
Bioboffin
Have you considered copying the DVD+RW onto your hard disk. Then wiping the
DVD+RW and copying back and this time NOT finalizing?
I assume that DVD+R reference in your second-to-last line is a typo, as it
contradicts your first line.
If you actually mean a DVD+R - the answer is NO. Copy it, throw it out and
use a new one. The cost of your mistake is the (rather small cost) of a new
DVD+R.
John.
Gabby
You are correct, it was a typo. I am trying to unfinalize a DVD+RW with no
files on it. Not trying to save any data. I tried erasing the DVD+RW using
Nero, but Nero would not let me change the book type to +RW.
I am trying to get the DVR to let me reuse the DVD+RW. Not sure how or why
my DVR let me screw up by finalizing a DVD+RW, but I'm trying to save the
disk if possible. If it's a coaster, I guess I'll just have to be a little
smarter and less trusting of the DVR next time.
Thanks for the reply.
"Bioboffin" <Reply_to_G...@zzz.invalid> wrote in message
news:BR3Nf.19150$gB4....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
J. Clarke
> John,
>
> You are correct, it was a typo. I am trying to unfinalize a DVD+RW with
> no
> files on it. Not trying to save any data. I tried erasing the DVD+RW
> using Nero, but Nero would not let me change the book type to +RW.
What do you mean by the "book type"? Nero doesn't control the type of
media, this is entirely hardware. Pick "DVD-ROM" and on the "Recorder"
menu about 2/3 of the way down you should see "Erase Rewriteable Disk".
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Larry Johnson
erased a disc on the computer it is rendered useless for recording in the
DVD recorder. The DVD recorder does not create the video files in 0's & 1's
the way a computer does. The DVD recorder creates the video on the fly to
VOB files, which are Video Recording files (VR) the process created
especially for DVD recorders.
When a computer formats (erases) the disc it is done so in order to allow
the disc to accept information written in computer language - 0's & 1's.
This is totaly adverse to the process of the DVD recorder which uses the
disc resins to accept a video stream from the onboard encoding chips.
"Gabby" <gb...@stny.rrr.com> wrote in message
news:bO3Nf.25$jf2...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
J. Clarke
> The two create and erase discs in totally different processes. Once you
> have erased a disc on the computer it is rendered useless for recording in
> the DVD recorder. The DVD recorder does not create the video files in 0's
> & 1's the way a computer does. The DVD recorder creates the video on the
> fly to VOB files, which are Video Recording files (VR) the process created
> especially for DVD recorders.
I'm looking for a correct statement in that paragraph and I cannot find one.
How long have you been working with digital video?
> When a computer formats (erases)
Formatting and erasing are different processes.
> the disc it is done so in order to allow
> the disc to accept information written in computer language - 0's & 1's.
Which is the only kind of language a DVD can record.
> This is totaly adverse to the process of the DVD recorder which uses the
> disc resins to accept a video stream from the onboard encoding chips.
That video stream is encoded in zeros and ones. That DVD recorder is just a
computer purpose made for functioning as a video recorder--it converts
analog video to a pattern of bits and writes those bits to the disk. The
method by which it puts data on the disk is the same as is used by any
other computer.
You seem to be confusing DVD with Laserdisk.
You might want to ask yourself how it is that a computer can be used to
create DVDs that are playable in nearly all DVD players if the recording
formats are so vastly different.
> "Gabby" <gb...@stny.rrr.com> wrote in message
> news:bO3Nf.25$jf2...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>I finalized a DVR+RW by mistake on my DVR. I was very surprized by my
>>error
>> as I thought that only DVD-RW could be finalized. I can record to the
>> DVD+RW on my PC, but the DVR will not record to it anymore. Is there a
>> way
>> to unfinallize A DVD+R? I tried Nero, but no dice.
>>
>>
--
Larry Johnson
is "format". And, when it comes to the way the video is written to a disc
using a DVD recorder it IS completely different, or a disc which was erased
using computer software would then be usable in the DVD recorder. It is NOT.
So, no matter which terminology is used why not just go out there an try
this stuff yourself?
The two methods are completely different. The proof is in the doing not the
terminology. So, if you are such a genius make the interchangable disc issue
work!
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:du4sn...@news2.newsguy.com...
Doz
you can't unfinalize a DVD+r - it's write once.. once it's finalised it's final.
John Cowie
> You are correct, it was a typo. I am trying to unfinalize a DVD+RW
> with no files on it. Not trying to save any data. I tried erasing
> the DVD+RW using Nero, but Nero would not let me change the book type
> to +RW.
>
> I am trying to get the DVR to let me reuse the DVD+RW. Not sure how
> or why my DVR let me screw up by finalizing a DVD+RW, but I'm trying
> to save the disk if possible. If it's a coaster, I guess I'll just
> have to be a little smarter and less trusting of the DVR next time.
>
Try DVD Info Pro. It can erase and format. I had a DVD+RW that my DVD
recorder wouldn't recognise and that cured it.
--
John
Anti-spam - replace the obvious in the header with my surname
J. Clarke
> For the layman I spoke in terms used by the DVD recorder for "erasing"
> which is "format".
Formatting is not erasing. Erasing is not formatting. The two are
different operations. Erasing clears the content of the disk, formatting
puts down the marks necessary to create and manage a directory structure.
> And, when it comes to the way the video is written to a
> disc using a DVD recorder it IS completely different, or a disc which was
> erased using computer software would then be usable in the DVD recorder.
Only if it had been formatted in the manner that the recorder expects.
Erasing in the computer _erases_, it does not _format_. Is a disk which
was erased using a DVD recorder usable in a computer? How do you explain
the DVD recorder being able to _read_ a disk written in a computer?
> It is NOT. So, no matter which terminology is used why not just go out
> there an try this stuff yourself?
>
> The two methods are completely different. The proof is in the doing not
> the terminology. So, if you are such a genius make the interchangable disc
> issue work!
Now lets see, a diskette formatted in an early Macintosh is unreadable in a
PC and vice versa, so I guess the recording methods used by those two
diskette drives, both of the made by Sony and bearing the same model
number, are "completely different".
Perhaps you should research the problem a bit more and see if you can
identify the real cause, assuming that that cause is not simply your own
lack of understanding of what is done during erasure and during formatting,
instead of making blanket assertions about "completely different recording
methods".
Gabby
Thanks for the great tip. DVD Info Pro solved the problem.
My DVD+RW is now unfinalized and will record in my DVR.
Gabby
"John Cowie" <john_m_pleasenohaw...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:114130611...@damia.uk.clara.net...
Larry Johnson
a set top DVD recorder or two and have a look inside their menu's. Some like
the Philips brand use the term erase, and others like the JVC DR-MV1 and the
Sylvania SRDV495 just to site a couple of readily available models, use the
term "format". In each case they do the same thing, wipe the disc clean
enough to re-record on.
Now, once your smart ass goes out and actuallly buys one of these things go
record some video to a RW disc - +RW or -RW. Once you have done this take
the disc to your favorite DVD writer program and "erase" the disc. Now,
place that disc in either one of the recorders and that recorder WILL reject
the use of that disc wholly and completely. Hands down won't work.
Now, if you actually had some experience doing these operations maybe you
wouldn't sit there acting like you know everything in the world there is to
know about DVD discs and recordings. It doesn't matter one bit of shit
whether the term is "erase" here or "format" there. The simple truth is that
computer programs may take all the info off the disc, but the DVD recorder
isn't going to see it as a usable disc anymore.
Put your money where your mouth is and do some hands-on research before you
go off claiming you know the gospel truth about a subject! Hell, I'll even
send you a disc recorded on one of these things for you to erase in the
computer as a starter kit!!
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:du719...@news4.newsguy.com...
J. Clarke
> It is obvious to me you have no idea what you are talking about. Go
> purchase a set top DVD recorder or two and have a look inside their
> menu's. Some like the Philips brand use the term erase, and others like
> the JVC DR-MV1 and the Sylvania SRDV495 just to site a couple of readily
> available models, use the term "format". In each case they do the same
> thing, wipe the disc clean enough to re-record on.
Why don't you learn something about the processes by which DVDs are
recorded?
> Now, once your smart ass goes out and actuallly buys one of these things
> go record some video to a RW disc - +RW or -RW. Once you have done this
> take the disc to your favorite DVD writer program and "erase" the disc.
> Now, place that disc in either one of the recorders and that recorder WILL
> reject the use of that disc wholly and completely. Hands down won't work.
That would be something in the firmware of the recorder, it would not be
anything inherent in the recording methodology. Why the designers would do
this I have no idea.
> Now, if you actually had some experience doing these operations maybe you
> wouldn't sit there acting like you know everything in the world there is
> to know about DVD discs and recordings. It doesn't matter one bit of shit
> whether the term is "erase" here or "format" there. The simple truth is
> that computer programs may take all the info off the disc, but the DVD
> recorder isn't going to see it as a usable disc anymore.
Well, actually, it does. It seems to have escaped your notice that the DVD
recorder is also using a computer program. I was using the words "format"
and "erase" in the sense in which a software designer would use them, not
in the way that an industrial designer planning a user interface would use
them. If the devices in fact are inaccurately labelled as to the function
then the manufacturers should be chastized.
> Put your money where your mouth is and do some hands-on research before
> you go off claiming you know the gospel truth about a subject! Hell, I'll
> even send you a disc recorded on one of these things for you to erase in
> the computer as a starter kit!!
I'm sorry, but I can conceive of no reason why anybody would want such a
badly broken piece of equipment as a DVD recorder if the things behave as
you describe.
My objection is not to your assertion that the miserable things don't work
properly, it is to your assertion that there is something fundamentally
different about the recording methodology.
If, having become aware that they are all broken in this fashion, you bought
a second one anyway, then I would say that you are the one who should not
put good money after bad.
The main thing you have accomplished here is to kill any tiny amount of
interest that I might once have had in owning such a device.
Larry Johnson
specifically for the recorder. As far as my knowledge of DVD it is
plentiful. With the advent of these DVD recorders also came a wide group of
people using them in ways I never thought of. Some of those users happen to
be naval air stations along the eastern seaboard. DVD recorders were the
requested gear sent to us through military purchase order.
You see, a few years back each of these naval air stations began recording
television news broadcasts off satellite to several DVD recording decks on a
24 hour basis. They had someone to change the discs every couple of hours
around the clock. The idea was that if there was some news of particular
interest it would be extracted from the disc manipulated for viewing over
their secure intranet by some ranking officer. What they were looking for I
cannot say, but after 9/11 everyone in the military was on watch for
anything and everything.
Once the discs had been reviewed they were to be erased for re-use, and this
is where my hends-on experience with DVD recorders really began. The
military personnel used a computer system to erase these discs and
subsequently those discs would not be accepted by the DVD recorder anymore.
Since my company was the one that sold the military some 200+ DVD recorders
the question concerning this problem came across my desk. Like you I assumed
they were doing something wrong in the process and voiced that opinion. I
suggested it may have been a batch of bad discs. They tried again, and again
the discs failed.
In an endeavor to come to a conclusion in the matter I unboxed several
different models of these recorders and began to study the effects of
erasing discs on the computer, placing them in a DVD recorder to see what
result I would get. My findings were the same as theirs. It did not matter
whether the disc was DVD-RAM, DVD-RW or DVD+RW the result was always the
same.
Since then I have continued to purchase DVD recorder models by several
manufacturer's and the result is always the same whe a disc is erased on the
computer - it will NOT work in the recorder anymore. But the reverse is not
true. A disc once used in the DVD recorder will without fail work flawlessly
in the computer system.
Now, I don't really give a rats ass what you think is the right and wrong of
this situation. I can say that I have literally years of experience and
bundles of money tied up in the proof of the already stated result. Yes, it
does not make any sense, and no I cannot say why it happens. All I can
attest to is that it does indeed happen.
Maybe the DVD recorder is a failed technology in some way. But, whenever a
customer as big as the U.S. military comes to you and asks specifically for
a product, you give them that product without question. And in addition, if
they have a technical support issue with that product you do your best to
come up with an explanation, whatever it may be.
Now, if you still think I am just some idiot floating out there in
cyberspace somewhere, so be it! But this idiot still knows a lot more about
this technology than your sorry ass ever will!
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:duhma...@news4.newsguy.com...
J. Clarke
So what it all comes down to is that we should believe you because you are a
Beltway Bandit? ROF,L.
Strive for some grace here. I admitted that the DVD recorders might be so
badly designed as to be unable to use a disk erased in another device.
J. Clarke
I did a bit more research on this and found a number of discussions of the
phenomenon in venues specific to DVD authoring. Turns out that in most
such discussions a means was found of erasing the disk in the DVD recorder,
which you claim cannot be done, and that when insurmountable problems
occurred they were often with your favorite Ritek disks and changing brands
resolved the problem.
Larry Johnson
once erased on a computer will no longer work for recording on the DVD
recorder.
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:dui9l...@news2.newsguy.com...
J. Clarke
> Not once did I say a DVD cannot be erased in a DVD recorder. I said the
> disc once erased on a computer will no longer work for recording on the
> DVD recorder.
Even if it is subsequently "erased" in the DVD recorder?
<remainder trimmed--the length of this thing is getting ridiculous>
Larry Johnson
recorder it then "loads" the disc. If there is any problem between the disc
and the machine you only get a message saying the disc cannot be used. You
are not given any further choice in the matter, therefore there is
absolutely no way to re-erase a disc which was previously erased in the
computer.
Also, depending on the DVD recorder and the date of manufacture, discs of
certain speeds cannot be used. For instance, there are some DVD recorders
which use 1 to 4x discs. These machines will not accept 1 to 8x discs which
are version 2.0 DVD-R General, or DVD-RW version 1.2 2 to 4x CPRM
compatible.
Some machines will accept only DVD-RAM, DVD+R & DVD+RW with some of the same
types of restrictions as stated about with the -R/-RW recorders. Then you
have some recorders using DVD-RAM, DVD-R & DVD-RW which don't care what
version disc you throw at them, but in every case once the disc is erased in
the computer it is gone for use on the recorder.
Remember the days when Mac files and Windows files could not even be shared,
but some forms of video could? That's sort of what this is like. The two
machines seem to use a completely different OS.
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@snet.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:duk8u...@news4.newsguy.com...
J. Clarke
> The problem is this. Whenever the disc, any disc, is placed in the DVD
> recorder it then "loads" the disc. If there is any problem between the
> disc and the machine you only get a message saying the disc cannot be
> used. You are not given any further choice in the matter, therefore there
> is absolutely no way to re-erase a disc which was previously erased in the
> computer.
That is not the story that others are reporting. The recommended technique
is to put the disk in the tray, hold the "erase" or "format" button down,
and while holding it close the tray.
> Also, depending on the DVD recorder and the date of manufacture, discs of
> certain speeds cannot be used. For instance, there are some DVD recorders
> which use 1 to 4x discs. These machines will not accept 1 to 8x discs
> which are version 2.0 DVD-R General, or DVD-RW version 1.2 2 to 4x CPRM
> compatible.
I can't see where this has anything to do with the issue at hand.
> Some machines will accept only DVD-RAM, DVD+R & DVD+RW with some of the
> same types of restrictions as stated about with the -R/-RW recorders. Then
> you have some recorders using DVD-RAM, DVD-R & DVD-RW which don't care
> what version disc you throw at them,
All of this is in the nature of a red herring. It really doesn't have
anything to do with the problem.
> but in every case once the disc is
> erased in the computer it is gone for use on the recorder.
Others seem to have found ways to deal with the issue.
> Remember the days when Mac files and Windows files could not even be
> shared, but some forms of video could? That's sort of what this is like.
> The two machines seem to use a completely different OS.
Well, of course they do. But that has nothing to do with a "completely
different recording method". Incidentally you might be surprised at the
number of devices that are running Linux.
Gene E. Bloch
> Larry Johnson wrote:
>
>> The problem is this. Whenever the disc, any disc, is placed in the DVD
>> recorder it then "loads" the disc. If there is any problem between the
>> disc and the machine you only get a message saying the disc cannot be
>> used. You are not given any further choice in the matter, therefore there
>> is absolutely no way to re-erase a disc which was previously erased in the
>> computer.
>
> That is not the story that others are reporting. The recommended technique
> is to put the disk in the tray, hold the "erase" or "format" button down,
> and while holding it close the tray.
This thread isn't long enough yet, so ...
It has been my experience with a couple of DVDs that my DVD recorder
wouldn't accept, that erasing them in my computer made them usable
again.
That was a while ago, though, so I can't provide useful details.
Gino
--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
la...@fake.com
>but in every case once the disc is erased in
>the computer it is gone for use on the recorder.
Last week I had a Verbatim RW that had originally
been "formated" and recorded in my Sony HD-710,
that would not play properly in my computer.
So I erased it in Nero 7. Then the Sony would not recognise it.
Through the Sony's remote control I accessed the "Tools"
menu / disc information and stepped down to button number 4,
"Format". Hit that and abt 2 minutes later the disc was
reformated and good as new.
Now I have recorded other stuff on it, on the Sony.
It is not "gone for use on the recorder". It was off for
a while, until reformated.
Lars
Stockholm