Fast DVMaster vs. Canopus DVRex
Robert K S
would you prefer to purchase, and why? My first impressions are that the DVRex
has more features and more flexibility..."
You're right.
"...but I rarely hear anything from Canopus DVRex users..."
I've publicly lauded my DVRex-M1 on these very boards a few times. It's a
splendid system. You'd have to be a fool to purchase the FAST card over the
Canopus board just for the feature of the software codec alone.
The Canopus board is a dream. The only flaw that I've found with it so far is
that it doesn't like to batch capture from my Canon XL-1.
HAS ANYONE BEEN SUCCESSFUL BATCH CAPTURING FROM THE XL-1 WITH THE DVREX-M1?
Robert K S
David V.
another. I have a Canopus DVRex. It "just works". Set up is trivial and it
is fun to use. I suspect the reason you rarely hear anything is because
people only tend to post when they have problems and are seeking help.
howie wrote in message <35a331f9.0@carrera>...
>Since the Fast DVMaster and the Canopus DVRex are priced similarly,
>which would you prefer to purchase, and why? My first impressions are
>that the DVRex has more features and more flexibility, but I rarely
>hear anything from Canopus DVRex users (good or bad thing?). Your
>opinions would be really appreciated and useful, thanks!
>
>howie:hw...@intergate.bc.ca
>
Tom Patrick
>
> "Since the Fast DVMaster and the Canopus DVRex are priced similarly, which
> would you prefer to purchase, and why? My first impressions are that the DVRex
>
> You're right.
No he's not and neither are you... sorry but a nicer patch box, unstable
NT drivers,
almost non-exsistant product support, etc. etc, does not a good editing
product make.
FAST has been a leader in digital editing for years even though those
others come and go
and with the guranteed upgrade policy your investment in safe no matter
what happens with the
"technology" They are a new commer and it remains to be seen what the
future holds for them or their users. Face it... Canopus basicly took a
DV Master (now with over 20 international awards ) reverse engineered it
and enhanced it a bit.
> "...but I rarely hear anything from Canopus DVRex users..."
That's because there aren't any ;) or very few... meanwhile DV Master
and DV Master Pro is being used by broadcasters and pros around the
world, winning awards left and right... not just the product by the
users of it... which are about 10,000 strong now. The recent lame
upgrade they are offering, which BTW would void the warantty of the
DVBK-1 I'm told, shows you just how desperate they are.
> I've publicly lauded my DVRex-M1 on these very boards a few times. It's a
> splendid system. You'd have to be a fool to purchase the FAST card over the
> Canopus board just for the feature of the software codec alone.
Well there ya go again... WRONG in fact DV Master DOES use a software
codec for some operations and at least we don't charge folks an extra
grand for professional YUV/BetaCam output. However I'm glad the product
works for you but I've heard that's not the case for many... and that's
not saying DVM is perfect either.
> The Canopus board is a dream. The only flaw that I've found with it so far is
> that it doesn't like to batch capture from my Canon XL-1.
So is the DV Master / DV Master Pro which I use in my video business
every day!
> HAS ANYONE BEEN SUCCESSFUL BATCH CAPTURING FROM THE XL-1 WITH THE DVREX-M1?
DV Master owners are also reporting problems with using DVM and the XL1
and FAST is wroking closly with Cannon to solve the problem.
BTW the new DV Master 1.5 software with many cool new features will be
out before the end of the month and as _always _ its FREE to our
registered users. FAST is constantly coming up with new features and
fulfilling user feature request something that becuase of our size we
are able and happy to do.
I'd suggest that rather than listen to the vocal few here on the net
that users go see the quality, and usablity of the products, examine the
history and support resources for both then act accordingly. I will
hand it to Jan and Can-o-pus they have done a great job of online
evanglization and ommission. I am glad you are productive with it though
and I hope next time that FAST might be able to earn your business.
May your renders be swift!
Tom Patrick
Reel Communications
&
FAST USA
www.fastmultimedia.com
NEW FORUMS! fast.roundtable and fast.cuttingedge (future
technologies)
Robert K S
awards ) reverse engineered it and enhanced it a bit."
Perhaps. But why not opt for the enhanced product? Don't get sucked into the
FAST slogan "we innovate while others imitate..."
I'll tell you what. Box up your DV Master, send it to Canopus, and they'll
magically transform it into a DVRex-M1 for a drastically reduced price. (This
is called they're "Rexorcise" upgrade, and they'll do it for any product that
has the SONY DVBK-1 hardware codec module in it.) And yes, you'll still get a
full warrantee on that board.
"in fact DV Master DOES use a software codec for some operations and at least
we don't charge folks an extra grand for professional YUV/BetaCam output"
"WE?" You mean you're under FAST's employ? One would think you'd be able to
put together a better sales pitch than a mud pie aimed at Canopus and their
customers.
"I am glad you are productive with it though and I hope next time that FAST
might be able to earn your business."
Well that's more like it. Listen guys: come up with a board rev that can
handle the Canopus board's real-time scrubbing (etc.), and you may see some
converts. Video technophiles generally go with the best engineered solution,
and right now FAST seems a few months behind in the race.
Robert K S
Eli
I was very glad to read this exchange. I am going to buy a DVREX-M1 by the
end of this month. Only one question to Rex users, how is Ulead Media
Studio 5.02 w/Rex? I am a little iffy on the stability and professionalism.
Thank you,
Eli
Robert K S
end of this month. Only one question to Rex users, how is Ulead Media Studio
5.02 w/Rex? I am a little iffy on the stability and professionalism."
Hey Eli!
I'm not totally convinced about Media Studio Pro's superiority to Premiere yet,
but Premiere 5.0 is crap and Premiere 4.21 doesn't have as many
transitions/effects offerings and can't do much in the way of sound editing.
However, I can't even seem to find the 5.02 update patch on the Ulead web
site--I'm stuck with the 5.0 that came boxed with my DVRex.
One thing is clear. An editor needs more to work with than just RexEdit, which
is cuts-only. So one HAS to choose... MSP 5... Premiere 4.21... Premiere 5....
or Speed Razor.
I'm still trying to make that decision, and I think I've eliminated Speed Razor
(because I want to work in Win95/98) and Premiere 5 (too buggy). Premiere 4.21
is stable as a rock but doesn't offer the great features of MSP5...
Luckily, there is no advantage to using MSP5 with the DVRex-M1.* Canopus makes
no special modifications to the Ulead software to make it "more compatible"
with their hardware.
Dillemas, dillemas... maybe Adobe will shock us with a Premiere 5 patch soon.
(Or maybe they'll be bastards and continue to fill back-orders with an
inoperable product for the next eight months.)
In the mean time, I have MSP5 and AP4.21 on my system and will use them both.
AND FOR THE GUYS AT FAST WHO CLAIM THEIR SUPPORT IS SUPERIOR TO CANOPUS
SUPPORT:
Canopus just released Driver Version 1.03A for the DVRex-M1, which is
downloadable from their web site, as of July 3rd. IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT YET, GO
AND GET IT!
Robert K S
*With one exception. AP4.21 can only handle 44 kHz digital audio, so it won't
take full advantage of the Canon XL-1's 48 kHz, 16-bit stereo audio capture
like MSP5 will.
Jan Piros
We have made a special plug-in for MediaStudio. Does MediaStudio open
RexVideo when you Preview?? If not please call adn I can help you get it
configured. The added features of this are quite good, i.e. output to 1394
from MediaStudio, capture from video into MediaStudio, etc. Please call. 1
888 868 2533.
Jan
Robert K S <robe...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807091529...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Tom Patrick
I was just stating my opinon and don't have the time nor inclination for
a long exchange...but now that you mention it...
>>> Video technophiles generally go with the best engineered solution,
> and right now FAST seems a few months behind in the race.<<<
You obviously have not worked with DV Master nor DV Master Pro
otherwise you would not say such incorrect things... And the correct
statement "while others immitate FAST continues to innovate..." is not
hype, it's the truth. FAST did it when they were the very FIRST DV/1394
editing solution... period... (not to mention virtually inventing hybrid
NLE and DTV in general with Video Machine) well then FAST did it AGAIN
with DV Master Pro and Speed Razor DV (thanks in:sync) for truly
professional long form DV editing and don't look now but FAST is about
to do it again with 601... the world's first MPEG-2 editing system...
then with blue.... and the hits just keep on coming! :) And we are very
very thankful for the support from our over 100,000 users worldwide. If
canopus really wanted to be inventive let them come up with a dual
stream DV editing system instead of copying someone else design!
You see FAST, unlike many other companies, does not make special deals
with some users to come on these news groups and "evanglize" its
products... most of our users are too busy out _using_ FAST products
and making money. I'm not here to "throw mud" at anyone but also as a
DV Master _owner_, user (aside from the fact that I work with FAST and
yes I _purchased_ mine after selling my other non-FAST system) and award
wining video maker I can't allow you or any one else, to leave people
with any misconceptions (not that tha's what you were trying to do
either...). But as an example, wonder why when a major televsion
facility was looking for a low-cost professional DV edit solution and
evaluated both products they chose the DV Master? Like the many other
thousands of video pros around the world who have choosen DV Master or
DVMPro over Rex, Spark and others it is the things DVM offers like full
DVCAM support, 95/98/NT from the get go not as an afterthrought, DV
Manager, guranteed upgradability, long company history of good
service... but most importantly the quality of the output, hardware and
software intergration. We're you aware that DVM has the same features
and then some? I will hand it to them they've done a great job "selling"
and advertising it and giving FAST a run for our money.. but now let's
see how they support it... at least our reps pick up the phone!
The Canopus "upgrade" is a desperate grasp (and stupid IMHO) by a new
comer company (with a bunch of old Miro folks...) as is their price
drop... as I said the proof of a product is not a few little
"enhancements" or awards (of which DVM has many more than DVRex BTW) it
is in the users of which for DVM is many more than Rex. And the warranty
that would be voided is both FAST's and Sony's. Any temporary advantage
that Canopus might currently have has/will quickly fade away. WE are
110% committed to having DV Master continue to be the standard by which
all others are judge and to continueing to offer our clients more than
anyone else. There's are reason why FAST, who helped to invent this
industry, has been around as long as it has... its called service, value
and innovation.
So again I say to those that have NOT made their selection of a DV edit
system and/or to those that many be in the market in the future... You
owe it to the future of your video business or hobby to check out FAST
products at a local dealer near you rather than listen to rants and
raves of both sides here on the net. One look and you'll _know_ that DV
Master/DV Master Pro or AV Master Plus is the solution for you and if
FAST earns your business you won't ever be sorry.
Glad yours works... mine does too. Now what are we going to _produce_
with them? ;)
All The Best,
Tom Patick
FAST US
(& Reel Communications)
www.fastmultimedia.com
NEW! FAST Newsgroups at:
fast.roundtable (FAST products)
fast.cuttingedge (FAST future technology)
Tom Patrick
> SUPPORT:
>
> Canopus just released Driver Version 1.03A for the DVRex-M1, which is
> downloadable from their web site, as of July 3rd.
No need to shout Robert...
but let's see now... has has produced 5 or more FREE updates to DV
Master each of which has added new features, functions and fixes... and
how many have they done? DVM's also has more features, better price,
more awards, more users... shall I go on?
No flames needed really... I'm glad it is working for you... but
please, just don't try to pretend that its the only kid on the block...
new kid sure.. but not the only and IMHO and that of the many many
thousands of users out there, not the best.
Cya,
Tom Patrick
"DV Master on a PPro 200MMX and lovin it! "
Tom Patrick
As I said to you before that's my _personal_ opinon which is why I only
signed my name) and I am entitled to it. Ya want the official manufacter
versions go to a web site. My experience and opinion has been from using
both products...not because of who I happen to work for at the moment.
I've also said in the past that I think they _do_ have a good product,
just not better that's all... why the over-reaction by you and Jan? I
always thought the net was for the free exchange of ideas and
opinions... And I've seen the a vocal few beat up on DVM, state
misinformation (either on purpose or because they were too lazy to
double check their facts) and basically say that Rex is the best thing
since sliced bread and DVM doesn't work. Sorry it just ain't so! I and
many, many other video professionals simply don't agree and I'm sorry if
that offends you or Jan. I do hope folks will think twice about some of
the "info" they see here on the news groups. Some companies seem to
concentrate on this sort of thing... FAST instead is rather busy helping
its users get the most out of their investment in FAST technology.
>>>Who cares about how dedicated you are to hyping your product? I want to know what makes it superior!<<<
It's not hype at all... just the facts as I see them. There's a full
list at www.fastmultimedia.com.
No... you don't really want to know about DVM/DVMP at all you want to
continue to feel you made the right choice, which is fine. As I said
before I'm glad it works for you, I'm sure FAST welcomes the
competition. After all when you're on top and are the standard by which
all the others are compared, you are bound to get some tomatoes thrown
at ya. Just don't think it's over cause that ain't the case... the new
1.5 DV Manager for 95/98/NT is awesome and very solid and DV Master Pro
is flying off the shelves!
As far as...>>>By the same logic you could call the SONY VX-1000 camera
superior to the XL-1. Actually, SONY just had their prosumer camera on
the market three years earlier than Canon, whereas Canon spent time to
develop a slightly nicer product.<<<
But see that's your _opinion_. I and many many others DO call the
VX1000 a better camera than the XL1 and having used both... please see
my upcoming story in Videography magazine... and purchasing the VX 1000
I can say without any reservations I made the right choice for me as
was the DV Master. And yes I could have purchased a Rex. While I love my
relationship with FAST and everything I had a good rep in this business
long before now and if you ask around one thing VTU/LightWavePro readers
will tell you is that I don't give a RAT's ass about upsetting a
manufacturer and did so with NewTek, the magazines main sponsor and
advertiser, many times. I'm for the users... because I am one - period.
And I've also let it be known that the moment I stop believing in FAST
or they do _anything_ unethical... is the day I cease having a
relationship with them. They are one of the most honest, sincere and
innovative companies in the market today... I know that may sound like
hype but its not. And I truly wish FAST could have had the chance to
prove that to you.
No hard feelings... I'd be happy to have some FAST users stop by between
editing jobs and tell you their experiences both good and bad. ;) Is it
perfect... not yet... but IMHO DVM's better. Sorry, I really didn't mean
to start any kind of flame war I just calls 'em how I sees 'em.
Perhaps when my work is caught up I'll come back and continue this
discussion or feel free to e-mail me.
Now let's get back to editing! ;) Cya...
All The Best,
Tom Patrick McAuliffe
t...@newyrseve1999.com
(also of) Reel Communications, Owner
FAST USER Magazine, Editor
The Video Editor's Journal, Writer
Western Marine Mammal Research Co-op, reseacher
FAST US
Robert K S
"I will hand it to them they've done a great job 'selling' and advertising it
and giving FAST a run for our money.. but now let's see how they support it...
at least our reps pick up the phone!"
Meanwhile, the post just previous to his is an active response to a technical
misrepresentation from a Canopus tech rep:
"We have made a special plug-in for MediaStudio. Does MediaStudio open RexVideo
when you Preview?? If not please call adn I can help you get it configured. The
added features of this are quite good, i.e. output to 1394 from MediaStudio,
capture from video into MediaStudio, etc. Please call. 1 888 868 2533."
I have had no quarrels with Canopus tech support. I am sure FAST offers tech
support of unparalleled quality and efficiency, but as I do not own a FAST
product, I've never called them. Regardless, Canopus has shown extreme
promptness in answering my questions, and thus their tech support should not be
denigrated.
In response to Canopus's claim of a MSP plug-in:
Is the opening of RexEdit a bonafide plug-in or just a happenstance driver call
MSP makes? In other words, will asking for a preview from Adobe Premiere 4.21
also open the RexVideo utility?
Does Canopus have any plans to support Adobe Premiere 5.0 or collaborate with
in:sync to manufacture a version of Speed Razor for the DVRex-M1?
Also, can you guys address my question of the incompatibility when it comes to
batch capturing from a Canon XL-1 with the DVRex-M1?
The FAST rep continues:
"The Canopus 'upgrade' is a desperate grasp by a new comer company as is their
price drop..."
I see Canopus's offer to take old hardware that uses the DVBK-1 and "Rexorcise"
it as a clever and useful service, not an act of desperation. And their price
drop wasn't really a price drop: it went into effect as the Medea "Buy Into DV"
program was phased out, so I think I got the better end of the deal buy getting
mine before the price was reduced. I paid a little more for my DVRex-M1 and
got a functional internal RAID at a drastically reduced price.
"as I said the proof of a product is not a few little 'enhancements' or awards
(of which DVM has many more than DVRex BTW) it is in the users of which for DVM
is many more than Rex."
This logic doesn't impress me. FAST has been in the game longer and their
board was released several years before Canopus's. By the same logic you could
call the SONY VX-1000 camera superior to the XL-1. (Actually, SONY just had
their prosumer camera on the market three years earlier than Canon, whereas
Canon spent time to develop a slightly nicer product.)
Seeing as the DV Master has been on the market longer than the DVRex, it's a
natural for it to have more customers and more awards. But answer me this: how
many awards has the DV Master won since the release of the DVRex-M1? How many
times, in head-to-head comparisons of the cards, has the DV Master been given
top billing? In all trade mag reveiews I have read, the DVRex-M1 has been the
winner.
"There's are reason why FAST, who helped to invent this industry, has been
around as long as it has... its called service, value and innovation."
The points FAST gets for being FIRST don't automatically make their card
better. FAST continues to talk of "value" and "innovation" without straight
facts about why they have a superior product.
It is my understanding that (1) you can't really "innovate" a piece of hardware
after it has been engineered, produced and distributed and (2) all of FAST's
upgrades for the DV Master (e.g., the DV Master Pro) have been strictly
software updates. What steps, precisely, has FAST taken to innovate the board
design on the DV Master? What makes the DV Master more innovative than the
Canopus board?
I purchased the DVRex-M1 over the DV Master on the basis that it featured
better advancements on a newer design. I took a look at the DVRex-M1 vs. DV
Master comparison on the canopus web site, and read many reviews, all of which
touted the DVRex as the clear winner.
Let me know where I went wrong, and please don't burden your posts with the
vague phrasing about "innovation" and "dedication." (Who cares about how
dedicated you are to hyping your product? I want to know what makes it
superior!)
Robert K S
Robert K S
"DVM's also has more features, better price..."
Could you please outline DVM's features not covered by the Canopus board?
Also, last time I checked, FAST was selling their board at an outrageously high
price for an inferior piece of hardware, and continued to do so well after the
DVRex-M1 was released. How much is the DV Master selling for now? FAST would
still be ripping customers off for $4100 if it wasn't for the new competition.
I almost bought a DV Master 8 months ago. I'm glad I waited. Now you can get
a superior product for under $3K.
Robert K S
PS, Tom, are you aware that the system you describe "PPro 200MMX" does not
exist? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there wasn't such a thing as a
PentiumPro with the MMX instructions.
Vincent Y. Chen
>>However, I can't even seem to find the 5.02 update patch on the Ulead web
>>site--I'm stuck with the 5.0 that came boxed with my DVRex.
Try downloading from the Ulead@MUGcenter section at http://www.mugcentral.com/
----
Vincent Y. Chen <vc...@msl.hinet.no_spam.net> (remove no_spam and replace l with 1).
--
The spammers who have no life and need to send out junk e-mails, send them to: pres...@whitehouse.gov, vice.pr...@whitehouse.gov, first...@whitehouse.gov, consum...@ftc.gov, c...@ftc.gov, fr...@uspis.gov, u...@ftc.gov, cust...@usps.gov, ab...@aol.com, ro...@cyberpromotion.com, postm...@ispam.net
Robert K S
free exchange of ideas and opinions..."
I apologize for the "over-reaction." However, you have provided inaccurate
information, and have failed to deliver facts when they were requested. I have
done my best to answer your questions but you evade mine and appear to be
unknowledgable.
"It's not hype at all... just the facts as I see them. There's a full
list at www.fastmultimedia.com."
At the Canopus web site they have a point-for-point comparison between the DV
Master and their own Canopus DVRex-M1. FAST's marketing strategy, from their
web FAQ to their magazine advertisements, is to focus competition on lower-end
software-codec-only based products. FAST does not post a head-to-head
comparison between their product and the DVRex. If they truly believed they
had a superior board, why have they not done so?
You also claim that DV Master uses a software codec like the DVRex does, but
FAST Multimedia has no literature or web area that remarks the same.
"I and many many others DO call the VX-1000 a better camera than the XL1 and
having used both... please see my upcoming story in Videography magazine... and
purchasing the VX-1000"
Interesting. So we are using competing products, soup to nuts.
Just for the sake of making sure I'm not wrong, I'm willing to offer you a
small challenge. I will send you a miniDV tape through the mail. On that
miniDV tape I would like you to print footage captured with your SONY VX-1000
and edited with your FAST product. This way I will have a head-to-head
comparison between the old technology you're using and the newer hardware I've
got. If you accept my challenge, I hope you'll compile an interesting set of
footage for me in the entire range of lighting situations and interesting edit
cuts.
Robert K S
Tom Patrick
During our recent discussions here about the FAST DV Master and DVRex I
used the term "reverse engineered" which was inaccurate. My apologies to
the Canopus engineers as I know they are a very innovative bunch just
like
the ones at FAST!
Best regards,
Tom Patrick
FAST US
&
ReelCommunications
Tom Patrick
During our recent discussions here about the FAST DV Master and DVRex I
used the term "reverse engineered" which was inaccurate. My apologies to
the Canopus engineers as I know they are a very innovative bunch just
like
the ones at FAST!
Tom Patrick
PS You are also correct about the PPro not supporting the MMX
instructions...
Wonder if a MMX chip would even plug in? It would appear that
those
of us who have PPro's arte stuck at the 200Mhz level... guess its time
for a new 100Mhz MB!
Tom Patrick
> I almost bought a DV Master 8 months ago. I'm glad I waited. Now you can get
> a superior product for under $3K. <
The August issue of DV Magazine in an ad, lists
Rex for sale at $3499 while the FAST DV Master is at $2999.
> PS, Tom, are you aware that the system you describe "PPro 200MMX" does not
> exist? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there wasn't such a thing as a
> PentiumPro with the MMX instructions.
You are correct as i say in a private e-mail to you. I misstyped. It
would seem PPro will stop at 200Mhz and it does not support MMX and I
_knew_ that ... sorry. I remember weighing the tradeoff between the
newly released MMX (at the time) and a PPro... for doing 3Danims I felt
at the time the PPro would be better... now I'm not so sure!
Jan Piros
Robert K S
culmination of ideas presented in this thread would be appropriate.
I've never used a DV Master. I can't personally testify to its performance. I
do recall seeing the ads--the ones with an ancient SP editing deck and a brand
shiny new VX-1000--in trade mags a year ago and thinking, WOW, what a cool
system! (Only $4100!)
Then again, at the time I was also going to buy the top-of-the-line VX-1000 for
over $3500.
However, I waited until summer to assemble my DV setup, and when it came time
to buy, I did my homework. I read every review, every comparison on the web.
I was satisfied by the professionals' verdict: the DVRex-M1 by Canopus was a
superior product. It matched the DV Master for its DVBK-1 hardware codec, its
IEEE 1394 & analog input/output capability, and bundled software, but one-upped
the competition with improved performance (thanks to PCI bridging and a
software codec), better aesthetic engineering (its DV dock looks great when
installed internally in the system case) and drastically lower price.
Now the FAST DV Master to the Canopus board seemed as ancient and outdated to
me as the SONY VX-1000 FAST uses in their ads was the the new Canon XL-1.
If indeed the DV Master is getting a bad rap online, FAST should address some
of its perceived shortfalls in their official marketing agenda. Its ads are
still geared toward combating the lower-end software-codec-only systems,
instead of competing with the real competition, the DVRex.
(But somehow I doubt it. I haven't USED a DV Master personally but I've talked
with quite a few of its owners, and they admit that real-time scrubbing and
good digital audio are not the older card's fortés.)
So I went with the Canopus board. No hassles in installation, it was truly a
dream come true to get up and running. (Finding space in my mini tower case
for an internal RAID was a different story!) There was one problem in that it
was incompatible with my camera (the XL-1) but that's fixed as of July 3rd.
(Thanks team at Canopus.)
And the competition between FAST and Canopus has been a good proposition for
customers. Whether they choose FAST or Canopus they're getting a much better
price--$1100 better--than they would have six months ago.
Now, naturally I'm going to cheerlead for Canopus and Tom's going to cheerlead
for FAST because we each invested a lot of money (and thus ego) in their
products and we'd like to convince ourselves we bought the best stuff. (And,
well, Tom works for FAST and I do not work for Canopus, but that's a different
story...)
Nevertheless, it's important if you're buying a card to do your homework before
putting $3-4k into your investment. So check out those reviews. Read the
online material. And ask other users. Then make your choice.
Robert K S
Pandaman
I'm settin' on the sidelines for this debate, but I must say that the DVM
seems to have one big advantage over any other DV capture card: it's the
only one that offers Speed Razor as editing software.
SR, for me, is a major selling point in favor of DVM.
--
Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions
(Not a FAST employee, not a DV owner. Just Looking.)
Tom Patrick
> Nevertheless, it's important if you're buying a card to do your homework before
> putting $3-4k into your investment. So check out those reviews. Read the
> online material. And ask other users. Then make your choice.<
Dear Robert,
Well see there we _do_ agree on something! ;) That’s all _I’m_ saying
too... go see for yourself. And when one investigates and finds FAST’s
long commitment and leadership in PC digital video (that’s _all_ we do)
they’ll know what to do. And just, as you say, to provide some balance
here please see the quotes below... they say it far better than I ever
could. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone and am not as eloquent as some.
Please stop by the new FAST web site in the near future to see some
quotes from both the press, critics and users (thanks for the great
idea!). Please also feel free to stop by the new FAST news groups to
learn more about our products and users. For example one of our DVMP
users just won THREE Telly's using the system! See the upcoming FAST
USER magazine which will also be online for details.
For the record may I also say I have no quarrel with you nor any company
and I know FAST welcomes the competition. I just believe in being
accurate and my experience is and the fact is that DVM is a true marvel,
an editing workhorse and the best is yet to come!
And although I've been honored to work for FAST and with its products
for the past 2-3 years... I've _also_ been an award wining
videographer/journalist for over 15 years and was a US Navy Videogapher
as well as already said the former editor of VTU and LightWavePro
Magazines... so I've been around a bit. My integrity and reputation
after FAST (hopefully I'll retire from it 20 years from now...) would
and does preclude me from any misrepresentaion. And I _have_ used both
products ... It's the very fact that I do work for FAST that I have not
and don't as a rule post online or when I do I sign for my business &
not FAST. I understand folks reservations about someone who works for a
company saying good things about its products... I'm as skptical when I
buy too. I also don't want some folks to think me shill... (then again
perhaps it’s to late for that. ;o) but I also, like you, will not
tolerate folks speading misinformation and inudendo either... both
companies' work to hard for that... which is why I corrected myself in
a previous e-mail about the engineering thing and the mmx with PPro
statement.
I wish you well and I'll leave you with two quick quotes... one from the
press and one from a user who I asked for thoughts about the two
products. I thing he's used rex but I'm not sure... I told him about
the news group so perhaps he’ll stop by or other users will also relate
their expereinces good and not so good.
With DV Master Pro now shipping in mass quanities and the new FAST DM
1.5 software for 95/98/NT and FAST's commitment to supporting the new
Adobe Premiere 5.o user as well as top-notch after the sale support...
FAST look’s forward to giving _all_ other products some even stronger
competition... begining right as of now. As you have said so well that
can only be a good thing. Gotta run...
Good Editing to You!
Tom Patrick
FAST US
FAST - The Art Of Digtial Video
blue., 601, Video Machine, DV Master Pro, DV master & AV Master Plus
www.fastmultimedia.com
NG= fast.roundtable and fast.cuttingedge
Also of;
Reel Communications Inc.
New DV-based film: "Beyond the Sunset" due in 1999!
www.bbgroup.com/reelcom
www.newyrseve1999.com
DV Master Review
“This is a total 1394 solution that results in a complete online editing
studio in one PC computer case. This, folks, is everything. If you are
into the DV format... whether you’re Windows95 or NT... this is your
baby!”
“This is a product that makes your Windows95 Pentium PC into a complete
post production project studio in one easy step.”
“The bundled software alone could justify the cost of the system!”
“With (DV Master and DV Drive) installed, your computer leapfrogs the
current linear video technology and becomes a VCR, a nonlinear editing
platform, and a special effects generator all at once.”
“...I couldn’t tell the difference from the tape to the hard drive!”
“You acquire the shots, edit, do special effects, and then record back
to the camera or the DV Drive and all the while, are never recomposing.”
“VD Master and (a) VD Drive, when added to a Pentium computer, comprise
a fully capable DV online editing suite with internal VCR capabilities.
The included software bundle vastly extends the functionality of the
package, leaving nothing to be desired!”
Avekta Productions Inc., NYC, USA
Videography Magazine
Feb. 1998
From:FVan...@aol.com on 07/10/98 03:39:20 PM
To: Tom P McAuliffe/FAST Multimedia
Subject: DVM vs DVrex
As you know, I am currently using the DVM in my video business for
producing broadcast commercials and product specific support video.
While it's true that the
Canopus product wasn't even in existence when I decided to go with the
DVM..if I had to make the choice between the two today..I would still go
with the
DVM over the Canopus..
WHY???
1. Bridge to broadcast: DVM includes real time transcode to my Betacam
gear
for broadcast dubs. This feature is part of an add on with Canopus..and
is at
an extra cost. This feature (the digital to analog R-y, B-y, Y
transcoding) is
something absolutely required to maintain high quality of your finished
"digitally produced" product when sending it out of house to dupe or
broadcast. More importantly it allows COMPATIBILITY with the rest of the
broadcast world.
2. The Editing Bundle: The "pro" version of DVM uses Speed Razor for
it's
capture/editing interface...Speed Razor gives easy access the style of
effects I used to have to create using After effects in tandem with
Photoshop...only now (using Speed Razor DV) I don't need to go outside
the software, or export frame sequences... convert them to Q-Time etc..
While I would agree that Media Suite Pro 5 (which I also own and use
with DVM from time to time) has some similar features to Speed Razor
(blur, moving layers etc.) it also has some that Speed Razor does not
have (such as the integrated rostoscope/paint program & sound editing
suite).
On balance though... were I asked to choose only a single bundled
configuration... I would select the Speed Razor version. Primarily
because
of it's direct integration, with DVM for real time playback from the
timeline,
as well as the types of integrated effects and their true usefulness in
my
type of production work.
When comparing After Effects/Premier, Media Suite Pro, and Speed Razor
DV,
It's my opinion that Speed Razor is more intuitive and more productive
in
most instances when you look at the time and creative input required to
get the
desired results.
It is also my understanding that there is already an upgrade from In
Sync
(based on their newest product ..version 4.0) in the works that will
enhance these features even further, including full support for multiple
processors, digital batch capture, (currently SR only supports analog
formats for batch capture and a much more advanced CG (Inscriber Pro
Pack) .By virtue os the fact that Speed Razor/Fast DVM arrangement is
exclusive..(meaning that you
would not be able to get integrated hardware support with any other DV
product for the near term).
Regards,
Frank Vanella
Spot Productions
San Jose, CA
Gary Bettan
wrote:
>Robert,
>
>I'm settin' on the sidelines for this debate, but I must say that the DVM
>seems to have one big advantage over any other DV capture card: it's the
>only one that offers Speed Razor as editing software.
>
Now that the tone has become a lot more informative and constuctive,
I'd like to add a few points.
Both the DV Rex and the DV Master are excellent products. We've sold a
lot of both of them. Both cards have had very low tech support/
usability issues. As usual, in several cases were one of our customers
couldn't get one or the other working to his satisfaction, swapping it
for the other did the job. This has gone both ways. It's a simple fact
of life that we live with every day in the Windows world. For whatever
reason sometimes one particular card won't work in your system but
another will. That is why it is so important that you get your card
from a dealer who can give you tech support and offers you the chance
to trade in your card for another if yours won't work.
Both DV Rex and DV Master are serious cards capable of producing very
professional video. With the proper storage, you'l have no problem
producing video that will leave many seasoned pros licking there chops
to migrate to DV. And they will. DV is the future of video. The
quality is spectacular and the ability to edit it digitally then go
back out digitally makes it a virtually lossless medium.
Speed Razor is a very professional NLE package. It is not for
everyone. home/ prosumers probably won'r find it worth the investment.
Professionals will say they can't imagine how they ever lived without
it.
Rex Edit is becoming a professional editing application in its own
right. it already gives you the ability to capture a single stream of
video up to the capacity limit of your hardrive. it also uses a 4GB
file structure and offers real time cuts only playback. The next
release version of Rex edit will add a few transitions (cross dissolve
is one) and some basic titling as well.
In conclusion, I think both products are top notch. Both card give
great performance. Both companies are dedicated to providing
responsive tech support and constant feature enhancements and
improvements. The competition between these two cards/companies is
heating up. The biggest winner of this competition is you, the digital
videographer!!
We just saw some major price slashing. DV rex M1 is now on sale for
$2750. DV Master is $2499 and DV Master Pro is $3999. I expect the
next round of the competition to move from price war to feature set.
Expect both companies to add more and more very cool features and
compatabilities over the coming months.
DV is cool. DV is the future. Only DV Master and DV Rex offer you the
ability to migrate to this new technology while still keeping all your
previous analog equipment and archives usable.
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox http://www.videoguys.com
The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
800 323-2325 or Free DTV tech advice (516) 759-1615
All DTV purchases include our 30 day customer assurance program
and FREE tech support
Tom Patrick
All The Best,
Tom Patrick
FAST US
FAST - The Art Of Digital Video
SaintMks
products at prices that innovative, creative, low-budget videographers can
afford? After somebody's dropped $700 on a camcorder, they're in no mood to
consider $2495 as some kind of "bargain" on editing gear. In New York City,
Downtown Community Television rents Avid 800's to members ($30 yr. for
students) for under $20 per hour.
Pat Leong
able to do real time native DV transitions & effects w/ the addition
of 2 more hardware codec modules. How come there's no review on this
card? It has been out for a yr now and if it can trully do all this
real time stuff, should it not be considered superior to DV Master or
DVrexM1? This seems like the way to go because you can slowly expand
on the system w/ a low innitial ivestment of a single codec module.
Anyone owns this card? How'bout some comments?
Pat L
Pandaman
long on announcing breakthrough products, and very short on producing a
working version of said product. I wouldn't touch one without a lot more
independent verification that it works. My apologies to Como if this is in
error, but that's the impression I get...
--
Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions
Pat Leong wrote in message <35AADC...@ix.netcom.com>...