Digital8 and MiniDV Camcorders
Gluone
What about the quality of images, playing and recording ?
Thanks in advance.
John P. Beale
: What about the difference of prices between digital8 and minidv camcorder ?
: What about the quality of images, playing and recording ?
Digital 8 and MiniDV tape formats store exactly the same digital data- as
far as the recorded signal goes, there is no difference. However the
Digital 8 cameras so far available have fewer CCD pixels than most of the
MiniDV cameras, so have lower resolution video. Of course they are cheaper
than MiniDV models too. All of Sony's current Digital 8 models have the
same CCD chip, optics, and hence image quality- that is, not as good as
most MiniDV cameras; though perhaps better than some.
I have some more info here:
http://www.best.com/~beale/trv900/d8/
-john
Tom Law
on an analog track?
Is it decent quality (assuming use of a good external mic)?
Tom Law
Gluone wrote:
> What about the difference of prices between digital8 and minidv camcorder ?
> What about the quality of images, playing and recording ?
>
> Thanks in advance.
John P. Beale
: And what about the audio capabilities of these cameras? Is the audio recorded
: on an analog track?
: Is it decent quality (assuming use of a good external mic)?
There is nothing analog about the recorded signal with either Digital 8 or
MiniDV. Audio and video is all digitized. All the Digital 8s, and most
MiniDV cameras, have mic input but not line-level input. Yes, with a decent
external mic you can get good sound. Some info on my web page about this
stuff
http://www.best.com/~beale/trv900
look under "accessories"/mics
-john
LEADENWAH
" resolution be better on the Dig 8 series camcorders ?
Considering the cheapest one as a digital recorder rather than buying the frail
and expensive DV300 player/recorder.
Does this make sense ?
GSW
resolution through the video inputs on the Digital8 camcorders. So
Yes, the line in resoultuion should be better... and likely as good as
any mini-DV can do.
My only caution on doing what you suggest is that the Digtial8 can
not play mini-DV tapes, but the DV300 can... so if you alread have a
mini-DV camcorder, you have to deal with two difernt type tapes.
In article <19990513235258...@ng-ci1.aol.com>,
David & Jan Winter
range of Sony D-8s. You probably followed my thread following publication of
a review of a PAL model in Australia, claiming 500 line performance. There
was a PAL review in Camcorder and Co which another reader posted here. This
showed TRV9 and TR310 in same ball park (PAL) around 340-360 lines, which is
very consistent with DV magazine's review of the TRV9 among a batch of
others.
The answer depends whether you buy PAL or NTSC.
Also - we need to note that a standard Hi8 tape (90min) will give 60mins in
D8 mode. No great saving there.
I guess the summary is that D8 meets the needs of a prospective Hi8 (single
chip) consumer with the advantages of digital storage and legacy footage
compatibility.
DW
John P. Beale <be...@shell3.ba.best.com> wrote in message
news:373af9ec$0$2...@nntp1.ba.best.com...
> Gluone <glu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : What about the difference of prices between digital8 and minidv
camcorder ?
> : What about the quality of images, playing and recording ?
>
David & Jan Winter
source as a digital tape. This means line level audio can be recorded, but
what John means is that while recording the picture live, the audio line in
connectors are not active - you must use the mic input, and you can't be
connected to a mixer or the like without using appropriate external
facilities (e.g. maybe just turning down the source would be sufficient,
else line transformers, DI boxes etc are helpful and widely used).
DW
John P. Beale <be...@shell3.ba.best.com> wrote in message
news:373b34d9$0$2...@nntp1.ba.best.com...
Mano
Article on "Computer Video Magazine"
Gluone wrote in message <01be9d3c$c7139320$350a0a0a@jack>...
>What about the difference of prices between digital8 and minidv camcorder ?
>What about the quality of images, playing and recording ?
>
>Thanks in advance.
R. Geoff Baker
|Article on "Computer Video Magazine"
Not so. Digital 8 is DV recorded on (Hi)8mm cassettes. Check Sony's site for
details. There is no difference in the signal/recorded format comparing DV to
Digital8 ... the different results are determined by the 'front end' or imaging
section of the device. Some reviews have indicated that results will vary according
to tape stock used, which is a mystery to me, and the latest issue of C&CV continues
to suggest that tape stock determines resolution ... how a digital file could be so
modified in the recording process is hard to fathom. My guess is legacy analog
thinking applied to current digital (binary) formats ...
Cheers,
GB
ar...@freenet.carleton.ca
RGBaker.256BoltonSt.Ottawa.ON.Canada.K1N5B6
(ph)613-789-0650(cel)613-852-3833
wally
>|Digital-8 compression ratio is 10:1 not like the mini-DV is 5:1 (PAL)
>|Article on "Computer Video Magazine"
>
>Not so. Digital 8 is DV recorded on (Hi)8mm cassettes. Check Sony's site for
>details. There is no difference in the signal/recorded format comparing DV to
>Digital8 ... the different results are determined by the 'front end' or imaging
>section of the device. Some reviews have indicated that results will vary
> according
>to tape stock used, which is a mystery to me, and the latest issue of C&CV
> continues
>to suggest that tape stock determines resolution ... how a digital file could
> be so
>modified in the recording process is hard to fathom. My guess is legacy analog
>thinking applied to current digital (binary) formats ...
My guess is they bump up the compression ratio when recording to normal video8
tape. So you'd get the same ccd "resolution" at the price of some additional
compression artifacts leading to lower overall quality and a lower data rate
to the recording heads. It's nice to be able to play with old or cheaper
video8 tapes, my point is with the same tape the digital recording is still
better that the analog video8 ever was!
I tried some digital recording on an old video8 tape and it still looked much
better than normal analog video8. Can't say if I could really see the
difference on the hi8 tape or not, but I did a very sloppy test in not the
best of light, hand held.
Might be pushing the limits of what the low res tape can do, as my manual
warns that video8 tapes recorded digitally might not play back optimally on a
machine other than the one that recorded it.
--wally.
R. Geoff Baker
|tape. So you'd get the same ccd "resolution" at the price of some additional
|compression artifacts leading to lower overall quality and a lower data rate
|to the recording heads. It's nice to be able to play with old or cheaper
|video8 tapes, my point is with the same tape the digital recording is still
|better that the analog video8 ever was!
Your guess is wrong. Sony is entirely clear at their web site, and users have
transferred Digital8 material via FireWire to their editing systems. Digital8 is DV
encoding recorded to Hi8 tape. Probably using the same CODEC chip, as I doubt there
is more than one in the Sony parts catalogue. Yes, it is better than analog 8 ever
was, but it isn't compressed any differently than DV ... which is the question in
this thread.
Check the FAQ at http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/handycam/other/faq.html
LEADENWAH
D8 to save edited footage in digital format.
I note that we must always keep NTSC and PAL formats separate in comparing
resolution values.
I gather also that Sony D8 camcorders can accept only the 8/Hi8 mm cassette
onto which they lay down digigal signals.
I am with GB (also my initials ) in wondering how the tapestock can
boost/reduce resolution. I feel that the Line-In of a good quality signal
would be satisfactory under this set up rather than spending more money on the
Digial Walkman.
Geo.
David & Jan Winter
these camcorders can do), there is no difference in the compression. This is
FIXED in the DV electronic format and protocols. However, it would be my
guess that the forward error correction and the error masking features get a
hefty workout if low band video8 stock or recycled Hi8 stock is used.
DW
LEADENWAH <lead...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990515022537...@ng-cf1.aol.com...
wally
>|My guess is they bump up the compression ratio when recording to normal video8
>|tape. So you'd get the same ccd "resolution" at the price of some additional
>|compression artifacts leading to lower overall quality and a lower data rate
>|to the recording heads. It's nice to be able to play with old or cheaper
>|video8 tapes, my point is with the same tape the digital recording is still
>|better that the analog video8 ever was!
>
>Your guess is wrong. Sony is entirely clear at their web site, and users have
>transferred Digital8 material via FireWire to their editing systems. Digital8
> is DV
>encoding recorded to Hi8 tape. Probably using the same CODEC chip, as I doubt
> there
>is more than one in the Sony parts catalogue. Yes, it is better than analog 8
> ever
>was, but it isn't compressed any differently than DV ... which is the question
> in
>this thread.
>
>Check the FAQ at http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/handycam/other/faq.html
The question I was replying to was "if its digital, why is the quality lower
on video8 tape than Hi8 tape". The faq you refer to has *no* technical
details. Keeping the same data rate to the heads on video8 tape as Hi8 would
probably explain the potential lack of interchangablity mentioned in the
manual.
Playing around re-recording over some of my old video8 tapes the D8 quality is
surprisingly good, but I've no way to tell, at present, if there is a "loss of
quality" using video8 vs. Hi8 tapes for Digital8 recording. I'll use Hi8 for
anything "real". I'm interested in learning more about what is really
happening here. I suspect you are correct and thus if the video8 digital
recording plays back correctly it'll be the same quality as if you used Hi8
tape. My take is you risk having useless tapes if you replace your recorder
if video8 is used instead of Hi8.
In another post someone seemed to think they reduce the ECC bits to lower the
data rate to the heads when using video8 tape. This could lead to
"digital dropouts". I've seen these on MiniDV tapes that were used too many
times -- much more objectionable than analog dropouts to my eye.
I make the analogy with 720K vs 1.44M floppies. One could force the cheaper
disks to format as 1.44M and they generally "worked" until your took them to a
different drive. I'd have prefered Sony had implimented my speculation as
then one could safely use cheaper tape for slightly lesser image quality.
--wally.